Do School or Foreign Med School

[confusedgirl06]

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I know this thread must have been started already, so I'm sooo sorry for posting it again! But I can't seem to find the old one.

I have acceptances at both DO Schools and schools in the Carribean.

I really would like to hear some thoughts on what you guys would pick and why (and any pros/cons).

And I am wondering, if you want to specialize, ie. anesthesiology, oncology, surgery, are you more likely to get a residency in that field if you are a foreign grad with an MD or a US Grad with a DO??

Sorry again if this has already been asked - but I would really appreciate if I could hear some thoughts!

Thanks!

 

[Taus]

Here is a cut and paste from the FAQ section:

DO or Caribbean?

This is the topic of many heated discussions over the years. The threads usually look the same and many end up in flame wars which get closed, however here is one that sums up the opinions on the DO forum rather nicely. Remember, if you ask this question on the DO forum you will get a DO biased answer, if you ask if on the FMG forum you may get different answers. In the end, it is up to you to evaluate which better suits you, DO, MD, or FMG MD.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=130591&page=1&pp=25


just a quick fyi....I know that you are seeking honest, unbiased well-thought out answers...but thats unlikely to be the case when this topic comes up....not your fault...you'll see what I mean....

 

[rgerwin]

One thing. In that link, someone mentions that NY doesn't take IMG students for residency. I looked it up, and I found a whole list of IMG-friendly residency programs in NY, and the match rules, from what I can tell, don't seem to mention anything about it either. I would be cautious of this statement.

 

[Taus]

You can't believe everything you read on SDN...especially when its some random persons opinion on an anonymous website. FYI.....NY has a pretty good history for taking IMG/FMG...many of the rotations for those schools are set up in the area.

 

[mitawa]

I know of several hospital systems in NY which are receptive to FMGs. And I met a neurologist from St. George who practice at SUNY Stony Brooks hospital. I know that SGU places a number of their students in Southeast NY especially since their northern correspondence office is located on Long Island.

 

[MTodd]

I am a non-traditional student and applied to both M.D. and D.O. schools. Fortunately, I was accepted to both and will be going the M.D. route. However, when I was applying, I researched the D.O. vs FMG's thing to death. After shawdowing M.D.'s and D.O.'s, as well as talking with various hospital administrators, I learned that going the D.O. route is WAY BETTER than being and FMG. Nothing against FMG's personally, but the stigma surrounding D.O.'s is rapidly diminishing. I shadowed D.O.s that were in family practice, emergency medicine, trauma surgury, and orthopedics and found they are all highly regarded. It is a little tougher to get an M.D. residency, but not nearly as much so as if your an FMG. Plus, you can also do a D.O. residency - lots of options. Also, don't forget that living outside the U.S. (in the Caribbean I assume) is WAY expensive, as well as a little incovenient.

Anyway, I don't want to offend any FMG students because I know you guys work hard too. I just found that being a D.O. is a great option in the U.S. for students with slightly lower MCAT's and/or GPA's.

Best of luck to you for either route you choose.

 

[mitawa]

Yes FMG tend to be more expensive. I was accepted to both and I chose DO.

 

[ladpm]

I work at a hospital in LA where we have all three types of medical graduates from: US medical schools, DO schools, and Foreign MD's. The bottom line is that they are all the same! It matters how much effort you put into your education. The half the senior internal medicine residents are DO (and pretty darn good doctors), some of the leaders and attendings of the hospital graduated from foreign schools, and some of the US graduate residents leave people saying "how did they even get into med school in the first place?" It comes down to your quality of life and the quality of training you want. If you're going into primary care and love to travel to different places, go for the Carribean...if you're a family oriented person and need to be closer to friends, stay in the US...you can be a neurologist, orthopedist, or anesthesiologist as a DO. Good luck whatever your endeavers...and remember to be nice to me if I end up at your school the following year! 🙂

 

[chaeymaey]

Is there a separate match for allo and osteo residencies? What I mean is, could you potentially match at 2 schools, one allo and one osteo, in the same year?

 

[TheFish005]

Is there a separate match for allo and osteo residencies? What I mean is, could you potentially match at 2 schools, one allo and one osteo, in the same year?

If you match in the DO match (which is in february) you are automatically removed from the MD match (in march). unfortunately, that means many DO grads won't even rank DO programs; there are not many on the west coast, so this is especially an issue at my school.

 

[chaeymaey]

If you match in the DO match (which is in february) you are automatically removed from the MD match (in march). unfortunately, that means many DO grads won't even rank DO programs; there are not many on the west coast, so this is especially an issue at my school.

Wow, that's really surprising. I would think that it would be the other way around. The current way seems to discourage DO grads from pursuing DO residencies - very counterintuitive.

 

[DrMom]

Wow, that's really surprising. I would think that it would be the other way around. The current way seems to discourage DO grads from pursuing DO residencies - very counterintuitive.

Well, under the opposite scenario DO students would match MD and still never participate in the DO match.

Obviously the whole match thing is contraversial.

 

[NRAI2001]

I work at a hospital in LA where we have all three types of medical graduates from: US medical schools, DO schools, and Foreign MD's. The bottom line is that they are all the same! It matters how much effort you put into your education. The half the senior internal medicine residents are DO (and pretty darn good doctors), some of the leaders and attendings of the hospital graduated from foreign schools, and some of the US graduate residents leave people saying "how did they even get into med school in the first place?" It comes down to your quality of life and the quality of training you want. If you're going into primary care and love to travel to different places, go for the Carribean...if you're a family oriented person and need to be closer to friends, stay in the US...you can be a neurologist, orthopedist, or anesthesiologist as a DO. Good luck whatever your endeavers...and remember to be nice to me if I end up at your school the following year! 🙂

Which LA area hospital do you work at?

 

[rahulazcom]

If you are content and proud with being a DO (as I am), then it shouldn't even be an issue, DO school hands down. However, I understand if someone is uncomfortable with being a DO. Everyone has to be honest with themselves and what they want out of their degree. It's true that you will be an FMG throughout your training but once you are done, you will be an M.D. and no one will ever question your credentials. Once you are past residency, the only people who will know you are foreign grad will be physicians and nurses you work alongside. However, patients will never question where you got your M.D. I feel that is the only advantage FMG's have over DO's; they will never have to explain their credentials.

That being said, the idea of "explaining one's credentials" is vastly overstated to the point that it exemplifies paranoia. Very rarely will you ever have to explain your credentials and most DO's can count one hand how many times they have had a rude patient encounter. It's such a rare thing. I was a pre-med once too and I'll admit that I had that fear as well. I didn't want to just be asked by every patient that I encountered if I'm a real doctor. As I got to speak with practicing DO's, I learned my fears were indeed more paranoia than fact. But yes, you will have to explain what a "DO" is on occassion and you will probably encouter someone who thinks you are a chiropractor.

Either way, I'm not goig to put down the FMG option. The reality is that I know too many people who have gone to schools like SGU, Ross and AUC and have done well. I do think they endure more hurdles that U.S. grads but in the end they have all done pretty well. And while I believe DO's stand a better chance at securing competitive residencies than FMG's, I don't think the discrepancy is that great as it is between U.S. M.D.'s and DO's for example. That is just my opinion and I'm sure people will disagree with me on that.

If you want to be an M.D. and you can deal with some inconvenience, you should pursue the FMG route. If you are content with being a DO and would rather improve your chances of matching into a competitive field and enjoy the comforts of attending a medical school in the U.S., I would go DO. I wouldn't want to deal with accreditation issues, expensive plane flights,power outages, hurricanes, being far from family, lacking access to certain entertainment venues (professional sports, concerts, restaurants).

However, an important point needs to be mentioned. It's really difficult to flunk out of a U.S. medical school. U.S. schools, both M.D. and D.O., do everything they can to see you pass. They have a vested interest in you and I feel like the professors do care about your welfare and want to see you pass. At the foreign schools it's about business and they will have no qualms with cutting those who fail classes to make room for students entering the next quarter. I wouldn't enjoy being at a school that just thinks of me as a number and doesn't care how I perform.

 

[med26]

If you're not going into a field in which you will be using OMM, then DO would be useless. You would be using your resources (time, cognitive load, etc) to learn something that will be useless for you in the future.
On the other hand, for family practice for example, DO is even better than US MD.

 

[allendo]

If you're not going into a field in which you will be using OMM, then DO would be useless. You would be using your resources (time, cognitive load, etc) to learn something that will be useless for you in the future.
On the other hand, for family practice for example, DO is even better than US MD.

I'm at a D.O. school and I'm going into ER and my degree will not be useless.

 

[rahulazcom]

If you're not going into a field in which you will be using OMM, then DO would be useless. You would be using your resources (time, cognitive load, etc) to learn something that will be useless for you in the future.
On the other hand, for family practice for example, DO is even better than US MD.

I think you are making a very valid point but I don't completely agree with your sentiment. I agree with you that OMM isn't to be taken lightly and many students who are not into OMM find to be an additional load they would rather not deal with. At the same time, OMM is only one class so if you are not drawn to it, it's not like it wil completely sour your medical school experience. I know many people at AZCOM who are not particularly fond of OMM but would still attend AZCOM all over again if given a choice.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

I would go with the D.O.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I know this thread must have been started already, so I'm sooo sorry for posting it again! But I can't seem to find the old one.

I have acceptances at both DO Schools and schools in the Carribean.

I really would like to hear some thoughts on what you guys would pick and why (and any pros/cons).

And I am wondering, if you want to specialize, ie. anesthesiology, oncology, surgery, are you more likely to get a residency in that field if you are a foreign grad with an MD or a US Grad with a DO??

Sorry again if this has already been asked - but I would really appreciate if I could hear some thoughts!

Thanks!

DO

Foreign MD's have too many licensure limitations, and get little respect from most residencies

DO's are considered equivalent to US MD's, while Foreign MD's are not

 

[docmd2010]

DO

Foreign MD's have too many licensure limitations, and get little respect from most residencies

DO's are considered equivalent to US MD's, while Foreign MD's are not

Go D.O.
IMG's are simply not as respected as D.o.'s and us md's. However, there is a dilemma that you much consider. With the D.O., you will be respected in the medical community, however the general public may not recognize the prestige of your degree. however with the foreign md, the medical community may look down upon you, but the general public sees you as any other md. That in mind, the d.o. degree is becoming very respected even in the public and will certainly be more recognized in the next 7 to 10 years. In the end, you're going to be a doctor, but how you decide to become one is your perogative.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Now go ask this question in the USIMG forum to get the other viewpoint. Good luck.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Go D.O.
IMG's are simply not as respected as D.o.'s and us md's. However, there is a dilemma that you much consider. With the D.O., you will be respected in the medical community, however the general public may not recognize the prestige of your degree. however with the foreign md, the medical community may look down upon you, but the general public sees you as any other md. That in mind, the d.o. degree is becoming very respected even in the public and will certainly be more recognized in the next 7 to 10 years. In the end, you're going to be a doctor, but how you decide to become one is your perogative.

If you are going into medicine for prestige, then please---leave the country.

 

[NRAI2001]

DO

Foreign MD's have too many licensure limitations, and get little respect from most residencies

DO's are considered equivalent to US MD's, while Foreign MD's are not

How are DOs considered equivalent to US MDs when foreign MDs arent?

All three have equal practicing rights.

If you are talking about preceived value of education/prestige then you are fooling yourself. DOs face their own bias/skepticism also.

 

[USArmyDoc]

How are DOs considered equivalent to US MDs when foreign MDs arent?

All three have equal practicing rights.

If you are talking about preceived value of education/prestige then you are fooling yourself. DOs face their own bias/skepticism also.

NRA with all due respect, I don't think you grasp the osteopathic degree that much. DO's are looked upon more favorably than IMG's and are a good amount of times just as equal to US MDs. If you don't believe anyone, go look at the match lists. Specifically, NYCOM comes to mind. They placed a lot of kids in some GREAT places.

 

[NRAI2001]

NRA with all due respect, I don't think you grasp the osteopathic degree that much. DO's are looked upon more favorably than IMG's and are a good amount of times just as equal to US MDs. If you don't believe anyone, go look at the match lists. Specifically, NYCOM comes to mind. They placed a lot of kids in some GREAT places.

Yea I know DOs schools are very good and so are some Foreign schools. I also know that DO schools are generally looked upon better than Foreign schools. If I had to choose between going to a good carribean school and a good DO school, i would choose the DO school. But the general public is still very unaware of what DOs are. I think in the coming years there will be a large increase in awarness, but i dont think we are currently at that point.

 

[OSUdoc08]

How are DOs considered equivalent to US MDs when foreign MDs arent?

All three have equal practicing rights.

If you are talking about preceived value of education/prestige then you are fooling yourself. DOs face their own bias/skepticism also.

This is not a true statement. There are certain states & training programs that impose limits on foreign grads.

US DO's and US MD's are both US trained physicians. Foreign MD's have many licensure issues, as well as the perception that they are considered inferior.

 

[JohnnyOU]

Go DO for sure. 👍

 

[USArmyDoc]

Yea I know DOs schools are very good and so are some Foreign schools. I also know that DO schools are generally looked upon better than Foreign schools. If I had to choose between going to a good carribean school and a good DO school, i would choose the DO school. But the general public is still very unaware of what DOs are. I think in the coming years there will be a large increase in awarness, but i dont think we are currently at that point.

You are right NRA. I think you bring up some valid points. However, I think what we are trying to hit on here is that it is better to become US trained, MD or DO, than foreign trained. That is not to say FMG's arn't good doctors it is just a stigma just like there is against DO's.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Go DO for sure. 👍

Glad to see your opinion changed. 👍

 

[cockatiel]

For a real perspective on DOs, their history, and evolution in our country and around the world, read "The DOs: Osteopathic Medicine in America" by Norman Gevitz. So many of the ideas discussed in this thread come from the sound bites we hear. Why not read a book writted by someone who researched the issue for years, producing a wonderful educational tool for us as medical students, and the public that we will serve?

 

[OSUdoc08]

Yea I know DOs schools are very good and so are some Foreign schools. I also know that DO schools are generally looked upon better than Foreign schools. If I had to choose between going to a good carribean school and a good DO school, i would choose the DO school. But the general public is still very unaware of what DOs are. I think in the coming years there will be a large increase in awarness, but i dont think we are currently at that point.

This shouldn't dictate which school you go to. Most patients think anyone with a white coat is a doctor, even if it has "medical student" written all over it.

They could care less what degree you recieved, as long as you are physician.

 

[Raven Feather]

This shouldn't dictate which school you go to. Most patients think anyone with a white coat is a doctor, even if it has "medical student" written all over it.

They could care less what degree you recieved, as long as you are physician.

I very much agree to that, but it is probably even more common if you are a male. If you are a female MD/DO you are likely to be thought of as a nurse, depending (but that is a bit off topic).

Some other points to make from reading previous posters, most nurses don't know what/where/which medical school you attended--they don't care and generally aren't interested in knowing. You will be respected as a professional equally by nurses, and other physicians be it US DO/MD or Foreign trained MD when you are practicing.

I've never had a patient (Im a nurse) ask me or a physician who is a D.O., "Is she/he a doctor?" and they surely won't ask if you are "foreign" if you don't have an accent when speaking English. Now, having said that, I have had patients make irritating comments about "those foreign doctors" who usually do not look "American" and have an "accent."--which I don't think has anything to do with their training, rather, ignorance and ethnocentricism /racism.

Do what you want--they are equal in my eyes.

 

[NRAI2001]

You are right NRA. I think you bring up some valid points. However, I think what we are trying to hit on here is that it is better to become US trained, MD or DO, than foreign trained. That is not to say FMG's arn't good doctors it is just a stigma just like there is against DO's.

Yea, thats exactly what i was trying to say. IMO its better to go DO, but to say they face no stigma while Foreign doctors do is not true.

 

[HoodyHoo]

If you're not going into a field in which you will be using OMM, then DO would be useless. You would be using your resources (time, cognitive load, etc) to learn something that will be useless for you in the future.
On the other hand, for family practice for example, DO is even better than US MD.

I completely disagree. As a DO we are in general more comfortable touching our patients because of OMT. Even if we are not going to directly use it in our practice, it is a wonderful thing to know about. I treat family members all the time yet I will probably never use it in practice. I also feel very comfortable with patients and putting my hands on them.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Yea, thats exactly what i was trying to say. IMO its better to go DO, but to say they face no stigma while Foreign doctors do is not true.

😴

 

[Bill_Brasky]

If you are going into medicine for prestige, then please---leave the country.

👍

 

[USArmyDoc]

Listen, we all go into medicine for a variety of things. However, I will not believe ONE person who says that prestige was never a factor. That would be a LIE. Everyone likes the fact that as a doctor you can take away that greatest fear and hence feel like a hero.

 

[NRAI2001]

Listen, we all go into medicine for a variety of things. However, I will not believe ONE person who says that prestige was never a factor. That would be a LIE. Everyone likes the fact that as a doctor you can take away that greatest fear and hence feel like a hero.

So true....sometimes I dont understand who people are trying to convince?

 

[USArmyDoc]

So true....sometimes I dont understand who people are trying to convince?

B/c too many people on these forums try to act self-righteous. I am not talking about anyone in particular. Actually to be honest, there arn't really any in the pre-DO forum. The pre-allopathic....well thats a different story.

 

[finallydone05]

We are all bias and can only speak from our personal opinion. Here is what i think. I have a good friend who is going to SGU for Med. He got in with a 2.0GPA and a MCAT 20.

He is a real down to earth and kind hearted person. Education aside, from what he says about the school and students there and seeing how the environment is affecting him, I wouldn't go there. If i don't get into a school in the US, I'd consider another route than going to the Carrib.

Don't want to offend anyone. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Ifellinapothole]

Listen...

I was pretty depressed about going to a D.O. school.

But as a first year, I can tell you I have been pretty happy. I actually really have enjoyed the OMM and feel it can be very useful. Also, you are getting a solid medical education. You are not compromising on your medical education.

I don't know why DO's are so not well known. It's a mystery to me.

But just based on my first year's experience, it is not a bad career move.

 

[NRAI2001]

We are all bias and can only speak from our personal opinion. Here is what i think. I have a good friend who is going to SGU for Med. He got in with a 2.0GPA and a MCAT 20.

He is a real down to earth and kind hearted person. Education aside, from what he says about the school and students there and seeing how the environment is affecting him, I wouldn't go there. If i don't get into a school in the US, I'd consider another route than going to the Carrib.

Don't want to offend anyone. Just my 2 cents.

I know people with gpa's in the low to mid 3s and mcats in the low 20s, who were explicitly told by SGU staff that their stats were too low.

I bet your friend did the MPH route? I know people who didnt get straight into sgu,so they did the MPH at SGU and were admitted into SGU the following year.

Either way it doesnt matter what the stats of people entering any school are; its more about the oppurtunities they will have once they graduate. Both DO schools and the top carribean schools will give you many. 👍

 

[jawicobike]

The whole prestige argument is immaterial because once you get out of residency few people will ever know whether you are an FMG or a US MD because unlike DO's the title is the same for these two. So the deciding factors should center on whether or not you can live in the Carribean, whether or not you can put up with two years of OPP (kinda sucks for some) and potential residency opportunities which according to the general consensus seem to be a little better for DO's than for FMG's.

 

[J1515]

Foreign MD's have too many licensure limitations, and get little respect from most residencies

DO's are considered equivalent to US MD's, while Foreign MD's are not


I've seen none in the area where I live.

Most patients prefer DO's to MD's.

OSUdoc -

Let me start this by saying I'm going to be a DO. I'm begining to get sick of your pompous attitude towards every degree but the DO. You are giving us a bad name. Firstly, some MD residencies won't look at an FMG application, just as some residencies won't look at a DO application. You're telling one side of the story. Go ahead and spout off your garbage about how such as such residency director told you he likes DOs better than FMGs. The bottom line is, both DOs and FMGs might face some opposition. Secondly, for you to say most patients prefer DO's to MD's is the most ridiculous, dumbfounded comment I've ever heard anyone make. Unless you've personally polled each individual of a sample population of 1000 or more, you're full of crap with your insecure, ego-boosting generalizations. Also, stop with the generalization that FMGs will have licensing problems. No, you never said "all" FMGs will, but you know as well as I do that you are walking a thin line between stretching the truth and flat out lying, for the simple purpose of making you feel good about yourself as a DO. A graduate from SGU who works hard will do just as well as a graduate from PCOM who works hard. There are **some** foreign medical schools that do have licensing limitations. In my opinion, anyone who choses those schools over a school (MD or DO) that is fully accredited in all states deserves what they get. How about you try telling the whole story to people who are looking for advice. Lastly, here's a little piece of advice that'll save your little ego a lot of bruising: once you pass the boards (COMLEX and/or USMLE)

YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN ANY US MD, FOREIGN MD, OR DO THAT HAS PASSED THE BOARDS TOO!

signed: -a future DO

 

[OSUdoc08]

OSUdoc -

Let me start this by saying I'm going to be a DO. I'm begining to get sick of your pompous attitude towards every degree but the DO. You are giving us a bad name. Firstly, some MD residencies won't look at an FMG application, just as some residencies won't look at a DO application. You're telling one side of the story. Go ahead and spout off your garbage about how such as such residency director told you he likes DOs better than FMGs. The bottom line is, both DOs and FMGs might face some opposition. Secondly, for you to say most patients prefer DO's to MD's is the most ridiculous, dumbfounded comment I've ever heard anyone make. Unless you've personally polled each individual of a sample population of 1000 or more, you're full of crap with your insecure, ego-boosting generalizations. Also, stop with the generalization that FMGs will have licensing problems. No, you never said "all" FMGs will, but you know as well as I do that you are walking a thin line between stretching the truth and flat out lying, for the simple purpose of making you feel good about yourself as a DO. A graduate from SGU who works hard will do just as well as a graduate from PCOM who works hard. There are **some** foreign medical schools that do have licensing limitations. In my opinion, anyone who choses those schools over a school (MD or DO) that is fully accredited in all states deserves what they get. How about you try telling the whole story to people who are looking for advice. Lastly, here's a little piece of advice that'll save your little ego a lot of bruising: once you pass the boards (COMLEX and/or USMLE)

YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN ANY US MD, FOREIGN MD, OR DO THAT HAS PASSED THE BOARDS TOO!

signed: -a future DO

😴

 

[NRAI2001]

OSUdoc -

Let me start this by saying I'm going to be a DO. I'm begining to get sick of your pompous attitude towards every degree but the DO. You are giving us a bad name. Firstly, some MD residencies won't look at an FMG application, just as some residencies won't look at a DO application. You're telling one side of the story. Go ahead and spout off your garbage about how such as such residency director told you he likes DOs better than FMGs. The bottom line is, both DOs and FMGs might face some opposition. Secondly, for you to say most patients prefer DO's to MD's is the most ridiculous, dumbfounded comment I've ever heard anyone make. Unless you've personally polled each individual of a sample population of 1000 or more, you're full of crap with your insecure, ego-boosting generalizations. Also, stop with the generalization that FMGs will have licensing problems. No, you never said "all" FMGs will, but you know as well as I do that you are walking a thin line between stretching the truth and flat out lying, for the simple purpose of making you feel good about yourself as a DO. A graduate from SGU who works hard will do just as well as a graduate from PCOM who works hard. There are **some** foreign medical schools that do have licensing limitations. In my opinion, anyone who choses those schools over a school (MD or DO) that is fully accredited in all states deserves what they get. How about you try telling the whole story to people who are looking for advice. Lastly, here's a little piece of advice that'll save your little ego a lot of bruising: once you pass the boards (COMLEX and/or USMLE)

YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN ANY US MD, FOREIGN MD, OR DO THAT HAS PASSED THE BOARDS TOO!

signed: -a future DO

OSUdoc you do tend to ignore/overlook the biases DOs face and overblow the bias that other fields face.

In most peoples eyes (in terms of prestige, residency potential.....etc) the ranking is US MD> US DO (slightly greater)> FMG.

 

[suckermc]

OSUdoc you do tend to ignore/overlook the biases DOs face and overblow the bias that other fields face.

In most peoples eyes (in terms of prestige, residency potential.....etc) the ranking is US MD> US DO (slightly greater)> FMG.

someone close this thread--too hot

 

[scpod]

There are **some** foreign medical schools that do have licensing limitations.

Actually, 37 states in the US have more stringent requirements for IMG's to get licenses, regardless of which school they went to.

 

[bobo]

Most patients prefer DO's to MD's.

Oh good lord will someone please shut this turkey up. Statements such as this are laughable at best.

bobo, pgy-2

 

[docbill]

Well, under the opposite scenario DO students would match MD and still never participate in the DO match.

Obviously the whole match thing is contraversial.

Dr.Mom, correct me on this. If someone is interested in a joint AOA/ACGME position, would they not have an advantage of knowing earlier and ranking two seperate preferences. One for AOA match and one for ACGME match. So as long as there are two first choices, it could double the chances of getting the one you want.

BTW, isn't it true that DO can match outside the match (Pre-match) in an ACGME residency. That is definitely useful and is a techinque used often by IMG.