Do School or Foreign Med School

[DrMom]

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Dr.Mom, correct me on this. If someone is interested in a joint AOA/ACGME position, would they not have an advantage of knowing earlier and ranking two seperate preferences. One for AOA match and one for ACGME match. So as long as there are two first choices, it could double the chances of getting the one you want.

AFAIK, this is correct. That said, one of my classmates applied to a joint program under the MD match & they asked him to rank them DO instead.

BTW, isn't it true that DO can match outside the match (Pre-match) in an ACGME residency. That is definitely useful and is a techinque used often by IMG.

Yes, but a lot of programs don't offer contracts outside of the match even though they technically can do this for DOs and foreign MD grads.

 

[J1515]

You've obviously misread my comments about the city that I live in with a generalized comment.

Take a chill pill, buddy.

You really seem to be bitter. Some of the generalizations I made are in fact true on the average.

And the city I live in, patients prefer to see an MD over a DO. So what's your point? Who cares?

I am tired of you sticking up for the osteopathic philosophy by putting down FMGs with unfounded generalizations and only telling one side of the story to make DOs look good (which actually makes us look bad). You said some of the generalizations you made are in fact true on the average." Not only are you yourself admitting they're generalizations, but you're also admitting they're not true all the time? Perhaps these are things you can tell the OP who came in looking for real advice instead of your ego boosting generalizations.

To the OP: The FACT is that there are some foreign MD schools that aren't licensed in all 50 states. There are some that are (ie: SGU). Working hard at any of those foreign MD schools that are fully accredited will put you on pretty much a level playing field as someone who works hard at an osteopathic school. Notice I said "working hard" is the key with whichever route you go.

 

[docmd2010]

I do agree that osudoc is not rational in his advice. His posts generally seem to be extremely favored towards d.o.'s and more importatnly, disfavored towards fmg's. have some confidence in ure education, but don't be arrogant about it. that shows insecurity. to the op-decide what you want-do/md is all the same damn thing. if u save someones life , i'm sure they won't really care where u got ure degree, and what it was. good luck. 👍

 

[OSUdoc08]

Oh good lord will someone please shut this turkey up. Statements such as this are laughable at best.

bobo, pgy-2

Classic quote taken out of context.

 

[dr.z]

I do agree that osudoc is not rational in his advice. His posts generally seem to be extremely favored towards d.o.'s and more importatnly, disfavored towards fmg's. have some confidence in ure education, but don't be arrogant about it. that shows insecurity. to the op-decide what you want-do/md is all the same damn thing. if u save someones life , i'm sure they won't really care where u got ure degree, and what it was. good luck. 👍

You guys forget the fact that he is never wrong! Take it easy!

 

[DPPM]

OSUdoc you do tend to ignore/overlook the biases DOs face and overblow the bias that other fields face.

In most peoples eyes (in terms of prestige, residency potential.....etc) the ranking is US MD> US DO (slightly greater)> FMG.

First of all, you can't just group all IMG's/FMG's in the same group. Maybe you guys are referring to a few Carib schools, but don't forget that there are very established and well respected schools in other first world countries like Great Britain, Ireland, and Israel.

Also, keep in mind that prestige is very subjective. That's why none of these threads get anywhere, because there is no proof that either one is "better" than the other, in the end, it's just one person's opinion. What it comes down to, I think, is that you need to figure out which one is better for you. Each option has its own unique advantages and disadvantages, and a few informed people might be able to break those down for you, but in the end only you can decide which one is worth it.

 

[OSUdoc08]

And the city I live in, patients prefer to see an MD over a DO. So what's your point? Who cares?

I am tired of you sticking up for the osteopathic philosophy by putting down FMGs with unfounded generalizations and only telling one side of the story to make DOs look good (which actually makes us look bad). You said some of the generalizations you made are in fact true on the average." Not only are you yourself admitting they're generalizations, but you're also admitting they're not true all the time? Perhaps these are things you can tell the OP who came in looking for real advice instead of your ego boosting generalizations.

To the OP: The FACT is that there are some foreign MD schools that aren't licensed in all 50 states. There are some that are (ie: SGU). Working hard at any of those foreign MD schools that are fully accredited will put you on pretty much a level playing field as someone who works hard at an osteopathic school. Notice I said "working hard" is the key with whichever route you go.

👍

 

[OSUdoc08]

OSUdoc you do tend to ignore/overlook the biases DOs face and overblow the bias that other fields face.

In most peoples eyes (in terms of prestige, residency potential.....etc) the ranking is US MD> US DO (slightly greater)> FMG.

👍

 

[billydoc]

I guess there is no one "right" or "wrong" way to go about it. But I can tell you from my personal experience. This was in September'04, when I was still at ROSS. About 4 weeks into the semester, after 1st mini (midterm) I saw one of my classmates sitting by the library, selling some books, and a few other things. Usually, ppl who failed, or figured out that Dominica is a little more than they brgained for did that. I asked this guy if he is splitting from the island. And he told me "Yes"....because he got in D.O school back in U.S.
He was willing to "waste" like some of you see it) another year of his life to start "non-MD" degree. He told me that meanwhile he'll finish his Master's degree. And the guy was like 28, 29 y.o at a time. So, go figure. Some of you will probably say it was a stupid move, because ROSS is a pretty good school, and you'll get your MD. Persanally though, I think the guy did the right thing. If yuor goal is to be a physician in the U.S it's better to go to U.S school. It has nothing to do with DO vs MD or vise versa, IMHO 😀

 

[J1515]

To the OP: The FACT is that there are some foreign MD schools that aren't licensed in all 50 states.

👍

How come you didn't tell the OP this fact in the first place? Should I tell the OP:

- being a DO will put you at a disadvantage when it comes to applying to allopathic residencies?

or

-being a DO will put you at a disadvantage when it comes to applying to SOME allopathic residencies?

You've lost all credibility here as you can see from the other responses. You're obviously ashamed of becoming a DO, which is why you feel the need to belittle FMGs. Perhaps you should make fun of US MDs too. Or can you not do that because they're "better than you"? I can't wait for you to apply to an MD residency and have them tell you "sorry, we only look at MD degree applications."

On a side note, it would be nice if this topic were able to be kept open. There is no name calling or foul language and I think the truth about the similarities between the DO path and the foreign MD path needs to be told.

 

[OSUdoc08]

How come you didn't tell the OP this fact in the first place? Should I tell the OP:

- being a DO will put you at a disadvantage when it comes to applying to allopathic residencies?

or

-being a DO will put you at a disadvantage when it comes to applying to SOME allopathic residencies?

You've lost all credibility here as you can see from the other responses. You're obviously ashamed of becoming a DO, which is why you feel the need to belittle FMGs. Perhaps you should make fun of US MDs too. Or can you not do that because they're "better than you"? I can't wait for you to apply to an MD residency and have them tell you "sorry, we only look at MD degree applications."

On a side note, it would be nice if this topic were able to be kept open. There is no name calling or foul language and I think the truth about the similarities between the DO path and the foreign MD path needs to be told.

Now would that make any sense to apply to such residency? I'm only applying to residencies that currently have DO's.

On a side note, I interviewed at DO and MD schools, and found DO schools to be a better fit. It has nothing to do with "being ashamed," so don't make that assumption.

 

[docbill]

My godness.. how long is this going to go for... please... someone shut up.

Can we do DO or Vet. school next... please..
Then DO or Electrician????

 

[OSUdoc08]

My godness.. how long is this going to go for... please... someone shut up.

Can we do DO or Vet. school next... please..
Then DO or Electrician????

My ex-girlfriend switched from applying to DVM school --> applying to DO school

 

[NRAI2001]

I guess there is no one "right" or "wrong" way to go about it. But I can tell you from my personal experience. This was in September'04, when I was still at ROSS. About 4 weeks into the semester, after 1st mini (midterm) I saw one of my classmates sitting by the library, selling some books, and a few other things. Usually, ppl who failed, or figured out that Dominica is a little more than they brgained for did that. I asked this guy if he is splitting from the island. And he told me "Yes"....because he got in D.O school back in U.S.
He was willing to "waste" like some of you see it) another year of his life to start "non-MD" degree. He told me that meanwhile he'll finish his Master's degree. And the guy was like 28, 29 y.o at a time. So, go figure. Some of you will probably say it was a stupid move, because ROSS is a pretty good school, and you'll get your MD. Persanally though, I think the guy did the right thing. If yuor goal is to be a physician in the U.S it's better to go to U.S school. It has nothing to do with DO vs MD or vise versa, IMHO 😀

What school do you go to now?

 

[billydoc]

What school do you go to now?

Hey NRAI2001!
I did two semesters at ROSS, transfered to SMU on Grand Cayman back in 2005, but never went (got a few health problems). I still have my acceptance, but not sure about the whole Carib thing alltogether. First, I'm married, with the child, and family is #1 priority for me.I realized that I have sold myself way short, by not even trying to get in U.S MD or DO schools. I suppouse that I must've had a male version of PMS ...and went to Carib, because "I've got to be a doctor...like now. My clock is ticking...and so on" That was my thinking at the time. I chose the path of least resistance, didn't want to be bothered with MCAT (still hate the idea). So I applied to ROSS (in March'04) for May'04 😱, and SABA for Sept'04. ROSS gave me an O'K for May (less than one month before classes were due to start) and off I went. I got in to all the Carib schools I've applied to way too easy. I did not realize that at a time, but in retrospect, I wasted about 2 years of my life by not trying U.S first, and got myself into way more than I could handle, especially separation with family. Ppl who tell you that only school is important are BS****ing you. There are many other factors that could affect your academic performance,like living in the 3rd World ****hole, away from your wife and kid.
Anyway, no Carib for me for now, gotto get my health back to normal, and try D.O.

Sorry, I went way too long, but hope it helps.

 

[FDoRoML]

Doesn't it boil down to getting the best possible board scores and getting the best possible residency int he field of your choice?

A brilliant person would do just fine in any school.... a medium person (no comment on the doofs!) could probably do better in a DO school... you get two boards if you want to take both (some schools MAKE you take both) and many DO schools show better boards overall than the foreign schools. Not sure if it's a testament to who they let in or how they teach and prep the students (but, seriously folks, who wouldn't have to struggle to stay outta the water in the Carib and buckle down with books?!?).

If you want to go to any old country to practice... or want to specifically work in international medicine/ mission medicine, then I guess it doesn't really matter where you go. You will probably land a residency somewhere.

If you are truly undecided, apply to all and interview. Once you go to a school and talk to students, experience the environment, ask the right quesitons, you will know which is the best for you.


(notice everyone how I stayed away from the stereotypes argument??)
👍

 

[NRAI2001]

Hey NRAI2001!
I did two semesters at ROSS, transfered to SMU on Grand Cayman back in 2005, but never went (got a few health problems). I still have my acceptance, but not sure about the whole Carib thing alltogether. First, I'm married, with the child, and family is #1 priority for me.I realized that I have sold myself way short, by not even trying to get in U.S MD or DO schools. I suppouse that I must've had a male version of PMS ...and went to Carib, because "I've got to be a doctor...like now. My clock is ticking...and so on" That was my thinking at the time. I chose the path of least resistance, didn't want to be bothered with MCAT (still hate the idea). So I applied to ROSS (in March'04) for May'04 😱, and SABA for Sept'04. ROSS gave me an O'K for May (less than one month before classes were due to start) and off I went. I got in to all the Carib schools I've applied to way too easy. I did not realize that at a time, but in retrospect, I wasted about 2 years of my life by not trying U.S first, and got myself into way more than I could handle, especially separation with family. Ppl who tell you that only school is important are BS****ing you. There are many other factors that could affect your academic performance,like living in the 3rd World ****hole, away from your wife and kid.
Anyway, no Carib for me for now, gotto get my health back to normal, and try D.O.

Sorry, I went way too long, but hope it helps.

2 semesters? Man you were about half way done with basic sciences.

I trying to decide if I should go to SGU this coming fall. I havent applied yet, but my stats are much above their averages.

I know what you mean about the hurry, i kinda feel the same way. I know going to a US school would be better, but i m kinda tired of being an undergrad and I dont want to be one for another 1 to 2 years of postbacc. But I think i m leaning more towards doing a masters degree.

 

[billydoc]

2 semesters? Man you were about half way done with basic sciences.

I trying to decide if I should go to SGU this coming fall. I havent applied yet, but my stats are much above their averages.

I know what you mean about the hurry, i kinda feel the same way. I know going to a US school would be better, but i m kinda tired of being an undergrad and I dont want to be one for another 1 to 2 years of postbacc. But I think i m leaning more towards doing a masters degree.

I hear ya. But I withdrew from ROSS because of medical reasons. Also it turned out to be that I'm very sensitive to the seismic activity of that region. Hey man, it's a volcanic island in the middle of nowhere 😱 .I always felt little tremors, and felt dizzy over there. And some of the younger kids were like...common...there is nothing there . Until....one beautiful Sunday morning I flew out of my bed from 6.4 magnitude earthquake. And we had aftershocks like evry 30 minutes for weeks. I don't know about you, but I can't concentrate, and continue sleeping with my eyes open, dressed, and with all my documents. The place I lived in was well-built (for Dominica), but it's suppoused to be hurricane-proofed, not earthqake-proofed. After that horror shock my place had cracks in the ceilling, and walls. I was already on edge without my family, and studying 14-16 hrs every day That slamed the lid on things for me. Also, I'm older I have my career in healthcare for almost 20 yrs now. So for me it doesn't really matter. I've tried to cut corners, but I feel like I've got the message from above, and I'm willing to take time in order not to take chances. But don't take my story as a rule. If I had no other responsibilities Carib is a fine option. There are many success stories from these schools. It's just I never even tried. Basically it's like to give up without a fight. And that's 👎 in my book.

Good Luck with whatever you do 😀

 

[J1515]

Now would that make any sense to apply to such residency? I'm only applying to residencies that currently have DO's.

In other words,*some* residencies won't take DOs? I guess I'll just start telling people flat out that "residencies won't take DOs"...just like you're telling people "foreign medical schools have licensure limitations."

 

[OSUdoc08]

In other words,*some* residencies won't take DOs? I guess I'll just start telling people flat out that "residencies won't take DOs"...just like you're telling people "foreign medical schools have licensure limitations."

They do. Sorry if that makes you unhappy.

 

[J1515]

In other words,*some* residencies won't take DOs? I guess I'll just start telling people flat out that "residencies won't take DOs"...just like you're telling people "foreign medical schools have licensure limitations."

They do. Sorry if that makes you unhappy.

What makes me unhappy is you making generalizations which aren't true and being an embarassment to anyone who shares the DO after their name. Coming from SGU, ROSS, and AUC, you can get licensed in ALL 50 STATES - just as a DO can. You are not limited to getting licensed in any states coming from the big 3.

You say what about some of the other foreign schools? I say what about the residencies that won't accept DOs? Try telling the whole story...if your sensitive ego can take it, that is.

 

[GAdoc]

2 semesters? Man you were about half way done with basic sciences.

I trying to decide if I should go to SGU this coming fall. I havent applied yet, but my stats are much above their averages.

I know what you mean about the hurry, i kinda feel the same way. I know going to a US school would be better, but i m kinda tired of being an undergrad and I dont want to be one for another 1 to 2 years of postbacc. But I think i m leaning more towards doing a masters degree.

Hey, I enjoy keeping up with this post because I came SO close to going Carib. I NEVER even considered not getting into a US allo. school...until my first MCAT came back! That rocked my world into reality and I started thinking of a lot of options. I spent basically from October of 04 to April of 05 (my senior year) trying to make SGU and Ross work ( I was accepted to both). Problem was, family was of the utmost importance to me. I was getting married in June of 05 and my wife (who is a teacher) would've either had to stay here after 2 months of marriage, or sat in an apartment in the Carib. Neither idea seemed good and we couldn't get the money for both of us. So, I made one of the toughest decisions of my life and decided to take a year off.

In retrospect, this year has helped us get a good start to our marriage, we've both worked and saved a little nest egg, and I've focused on getting into med school this year. After a summer of studying, I improved my MCAT so that it was on par with most of my state schools. My GPA was good, and I had plenty of ECs. I applied to 4 US allo schools. I was interviewed at all. I've been wait listed at 2 and am waiting to hear back from 2. I applied to 1 osteo. school where I have been accepted.

Now for my point....there are always "other" ways in if its really what you want. I can't speak for all schools in different regions of the country, but I know my top choice of med school is HUGE on loyalty. At my rejection interview there last year, the dean of admission told me about students they had let in after their third application just to not have to look at their application again! He gave me SPECIFIC suggestions for things I could do to get in. I started volunteering at a local clinic. One day, low and behold, in comes the Chair of the ADCOM! I shadowed him all day. I'll let you know in about two weeks how that turns out! But I just want everyone to think carefully before they invest that much money in time into ANY school. I don't care if its Harvard med.

 

[OSUdoc08]

What makes me unhappy is you making generalizations which aren't true and being an embarassment to anyone who shares the DO after their name. Coming from SGU, ROSS, and AUC, you can get licensed in ALL 50 STATES - just as a DO can. You are not limited to getting licensed in any states coming from the big 3.

You say what about some of the other foreign schools? I say what about the residencies that won't accept DOs? Try telling the whole story...if your sensitive ego can take it, that is.

1. I'm talking about licensure, not residencies.

2. It looks like you agree that there are some Caribbean schools that have licensure problems.

3. Zero DO schools have licensure problems.

 

[J1515]

1. I'm talking about licensure, not residencies.

2. It looks like you agree that there are some Caribbean schools that have licensure problems.

3. Zero DO schools have licensure problems.

1) And students coming from SGU, ROSS, and AUC can get full licensure in all 50 states -what don't you understand about that?

2) Yes, I do agree. It looks like you agree that some residencies won't even look at DO applications? (I"M talking about residencies, I know you aren't).

3) That means nothing to the people who want an MD and attend one of the big 3.

 

[scpod]

1) And students coming from SGU, ROSS, and AUC can get full licensure in all 50 states -what don't you understand about that?

2) Yes, I do agree. It looks like you agree that some residencies won't even look at DO applications? (I"M talking about residencies, I know you aren't).

3) That means nothing to the people who want an MD and attend one of the big 3.

Yes, they can get licensure, but it is harder. 74% of the states require more years of training and additional documentation. Some states even require board certification before you can be licensed in their state if you are an IMG.

 

[OSUdoc08]

1) And students coming from SGU, ROSS, and AUC can get full licensure in all 50 states -what don't you understand about that?

2) Yes, I do agree. It looks like you agree that some residencies won't even look at DO applications? (I"M talking about residencies, I know you aren't).

3) That means nothing to the people who want an MD and attend one of the big 3.

1) What don't you understand about my comment that this isn't true for ALL Caribbean schools?

2) Correct some residencies won't look at DO's. It really depends on what you want to go into. Fortunately, we always have AOA residencies.

3.) The degree is irrelevant, since you can get the same job as a DO or an MD. What SHOULD be relevant is the quality of the school. If you leave the U.S., your education quality will diminish exponentially.

 

[dr.z]

3.) The degree is irrelevant, since you can get the same job as a DO or an MD. What SHOULD be relevant is the quality of the school. If you leave the U.S., your education quality will diminish exponentially.

Do you think this is true for all non-Carribean foreign schools too? I know lots of doctors who recieved medical degree from foreign schools who are very successful.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Do you think this is true for all non-Carribean foreign schools too? I know lots of doctors who recieved medical degree from foreign schools who are very successful.

Absolutely not. There are non-Carribean schools that are equal to or better than top US MD institutions.

However, there are Carribean schools that don't even require an MCAT or even anything more than a passing GPA.

 

[Nate]

These DO vs. Foreign always look identical and I think this thread has outlived any usefulness so it is closed. Please remember to respect other professions and paths when posting here on SDN. If you have some opinion that has not been expressed over and over and over please feel free to contribute to one of the older DO versus foreign threads that are still open. Thank you