Do schools care if you take the MCAT over 3 times????

[waterbuffalo]

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I know that it was an issue in the past (when we had the paper tests), but now that the MCAT is offered over 22 times a year does it even make a difference if you take it more than 3 times?? IF so, which schools don't care about that?? Comments from medical students would be helpful!

 

[Bre]

Don't you need special permisson from AMCAS to take it more than three times? Or something like that...

Either way I'm sure schools would view it unfavorably.

 

[spencerxd]

.....yes it matters. why would you want to take it more than 3 times???? if you are dumb enough to take it one time when you're not ready, one more time when you're still not ready and one last time when you're still not ready then that shows how much logic you have doesnt it.

 

[howdy2u]

.....yes it matters. why would you want to take it more than 3 times???? if you are dumb enough to take it one time when you're not ready, one more time when you're still not ready and one last time when you're still not ready then that shows how much logic you have doesnt it.

Dude, you're obviously an idiot!! Lots of successful matriculants took the MCAT more than one time. I don't think that the OP or anyone is "DUMB" because they didn't ace it in the beginning.

 

[spencerxd]

Dude, you're obviously an idiot!! Lots of successful matriculants took the MCAT more than one time. I don't think that the OP or anyone is "DUMB" because they didn't ace it in the beginning.

you're the idiot. the OP asked if medical schools care if you take the mcat MORE THAN 3 TIMES. I was referring to the idea that it is dumb to take it more than 3 times.

you should think before you say anything. i know its tough for you but try.

 

[waterbuffalo]

Now now, no need for personal insults people!

 

[howdy2u]

poor, Spencer, if only he could read his own writing?!?

 

[waterbuffalo]

haha, i didn't even notice that... ok... I didn't think this would be a controversial thread..

 

[ufgrad00]

Now now, no need for personal insults people!

I know many successful applicants who have taken the MCAT 3 times, and this year I think a few people who have taken it over three times will matriculate.

A lot of schools care about the reason behind taking it many times, and others barely notice. I interviewed at one school, and my interviewer didn't even know that I took it twice until I brought it up. I understand though, how some people may want to take it more than 3 times, and I am sure many med schools understand as well.

 

[hp540]

If I was a medical school, I would view applicants who have taken the MCAT 3+ times in a negative light.

I mean..come on, as a medical student, you're going to be writing a whole lot of standardized exams in the years to come. What are you going to do? Write the USMLEs multiple times as well?

 

[87138]

A lot of schools care about the reason behind taking it many times, and others barely notice. I interviewed at one school, and my interviewer didn't even know that I took it twice until I brought it up. I understand though, how some people may want to take it more than 3 times, and I am sure many med schools understand as well.

Your interviewer might not realize it, but what are the chances that no one at the committee meeting notices it? It's likely at least one person will say "hold on a sec, I see this guy took the MCAT 5 times . . . " which raises a red flag.

 

[ufgrad00]

Your interviewer might not realize it, but what are the chances that no one at the committee meeting notices it? It's likely at least one person will say "hold on a sec, I see this guy took the MCAT 5 times . . . " which raises a red flag.

True.

But what about the many people who say make a 22 on their first MCAT. Then take a year off to study and make, say a 30, but aren't satisfied because they want to be MD/PHD or something, and take the exam a little over month later to make a 35.

Last Spring at UF, I met many people (tools) who took the MCAT multiple times, NOT because they had difficulties making a satisfactory score, but because they took it until they scored into the upper thirties.

 

[ocwaveoc]

By the way, I love the name "Waterbuffalo". 🙂

 

[146233]

Let's remember to keep it civil when engaging in discussion on the forums. Thanks! 🙂

 

[njbmd]

We "red flag" applicants who have more than 2 MCAT scores. So far, we have not accepted any applicants over the past three years that have more than 2 MCAT scores. If an applicant has one low score, we look for an improvement on the retake but after one retake, the yield become a liability in terms of that applicant being able to pass USMLE Step I. We have plenty of data that predict that applicants with more than one retake on MCAT do not fare well on Step I and thus we have not dipped into the 2+ MCAT pool (too many good applicants without more than 2 scores).

I am not sure that all medical schools do this but mine does and we have discussed this issue at length at national meetings and thus I do know that it is a issue for many schools. My advice to folks with multiple MCAT retakes is to make sure that you correct any of your problems before engaging in another retake and that you have a compelling reason for your retakes. In the end, they may hurt you at some schools (allopathic for the most part).

Most of my admissions colleagues feel that some folks can have a bad day on MCAT day and really "bomb" that test. If this is you, then don't retake until you have totally corrected your problems. One poor score followed by a "home run" is not a negative but three poor scores are problematic.

Folks, the competition for seats in medical school is pretty harsh this year and getting harsher. Make sure that you optimize everything that you can but with MCAT, you can reach a point where you actually hurt your chances by multiple retakes. Bottom line: Don't take MCAT until you know that you can improve your score. Do whatever you have to do to only take that exam one time and make that re-take an emergency situation only.

 

[Textuality]

My former adviser said that if you have a good MCAT for the schools you want to aim for, don't take it again just to get the 35+ because it will make you look like a neurotic perfectionist with dubious judgment. She argued that I should have better things to do with that 200 some dollars and hours of time, lol. And I guess she has a point.

I can see taking it again if you did very badly for whatever reason first time around, in which case figure out what you need to fix and practice, practice, practice for round 2. But I don't think you should retake it if you scored within 2 points of the school averages. I've had classmates who retook the MCATs even though they had a a 33 or above score (because they wanted to be above the MSAR averages for the schools they were applying to), personally don't know if it's worth it. Just my two cents though.

 

[45408]

Dude, you're obviously an idiot!! Lots of successful matriculants took the MCAT more than one time. I don't think that the OP or anyone is "DUMB" because they didn't ace it in the beginning.

Lighten up, Francis. If you're taking the MCAT more than three times because of poor scores, you're obviously doing something wrong the first three times. I wouldn't go so far as to call such a person dumb, but they're probably not cut out for medical school. A med school adcom will see this and realize that the probability that you will do poorly on the USMLE is higher than someone who got a 32 on their first and only attempt. Like njbmd said, you can write off one bad attempt as a fluke occurrence, but when you have a track record of poor scores, it's pretty convincing.

 

[Jolie South]

wouldn't taking the mcat multiple times to get in the high 30s kind of cheapen the accomplishment?

it's easy to do well if you've taken the thing multiple times and studied for a year.

doing well the first time should be your goal. if you want a high 30s score aim to do that the first time and don't take the test until you're doing just as well on your practice tests.

 

[Kthanksbye]

True.

But what about the many people who say make a 22 on their first MCAT. Then take a year off to study and make, say a 30, but aren't satisfied because they want to be MD/PHD or something, and take the exam a little over month later to make a 35.

Last Spring at UF, I met many people (tools) who took the MCAT multiple times, NOT because they had difficulties making a satisfactory score, but because they took it until they scored into the upper thirties.

I also took the MCAT multiple times until I was getting the score that I wanted...but they were PRACTICE tests! I took the real thing 1 time. That's what practice tests are for. No one should do this with the real thing.

 

[orthomodel]

I took the MCAT 5 times over 7 years and recently got accepted at one school and waitlisted at another school. The first 3 times are too old to be considered by most schools but obviously med schools can see all the scores. I know some smarty is gonna point out my URM status, but the difference between my last score and all the others is significant (yeah they were that bad). I've had to explain my scores at every interview I've had except one and that's because that one interview was blind.

I do agree with previous posters that if you already have a great score and you take it again just to be anal that's a bit much. But there are many people like me who for whatever reason needed to take the test a few times to get an acceptable score.

Now that I know what works for me (review courses and living at the library 3weeks before the test) I can apply that to my preparation for the boards; so I disagree with the person who said that people who take the MCAT multiple times aren't good test takers will take the boards multiple times.

Also, the MCAT is a small part of a long list of things that med schools evaluate when deciding who to admit. For all the interviews I've had, I've only spent 5 minutes or less talking about my scores, the schools were more interested in finding out what kind of person I am and what life/clinical experience I've had and what I got out of my courses as opposed to stats.

I don't except everyone to agree with me but I think that if you're really passionate about becoming a doctor schools will see that. Most applicants have some weaknesses in their application but if the other parts of your app are strong then you have a good shot.

 

[batman1983]

I don’t want to sound like a dick, but honestly, if you have to take it 3 times just to get a 30, maybe you should start thinking about a backup to medical school(especially since you are not a URM). Your score is good enough to get into a DO. I mean, I can understand having a bad day or not being prepared for the 1st time. But, after having taken it once, you should have noted your weaknesses (ie, didn’t study enough, not strong enough foundation, etc) and improved upon them such that you should have scored 30+ at least the 2nd and especially the 3rd time.

Be realistic with yourself as well. While I don’t think the MCAT is the sole measure of an applicant’s success in medical school, I do believe that the many factors/skills that are necessary to do well on the exam(analytical skill, hard work, etc) are necessary to be successful in medical school. If you are unable to do well after 3 times on the MCAT, imagine how much you will be struggling once in medical school.

To sum things up, I will borrow from the book of our great leader: “There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

 

[howdy2u]

I don’t want to sound like a dick, but honestly, if you have to take it 3 times just to get a 30, maybe you should start thinking about a backup to medical school(especially since you are not a URM). Your score is good enough to get into a DO. I mean, I can understand having a bad day or not being prepared for the 1st time. But, after having taken it once, you should have noted your weaknesses (ie, didn’t study enough, not strong enough foundation, etc) and improved upon them such that you should have scored 30+ at least the 2nd and especially the 3rd time.

Be realistic with yourself as well. While I don’t think the MCAT is the sole measure of an applicant’s success in medical school, I do believe that the many factors/skills that are necessary to do well on the exam(analytical skill, hard work, etc) are necessary to be successful in medical school. If you are unable to do well after 3 times on the MCAT, imagine how much you will be struggling once in medical school.

To sum things up, I will borrow from the book of our great leader: “There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Whoa 👎

I hope that you guys displayed this level of compassion for and understanding of others in your applications/interviews.

Allow me to quote from a wise poster by the name of Corker:

If you are considering a career in medicine, I wonder if you wouldn't be more successful as a lawyer or businessperson. Doctors need to have a sensitivity and compassion that has not been apparent in the tone of your posts. I have worked with THOUSANDS of sick people, and it is a bit distressing to me to think of a person with your personality (or at least what I PERCEIVE to be your personality, based on your posts) damaging the delicate feelings and hopes of patients who are suffering. I hope you will work on developing some tact before you venture out into the medical field. As a potential future colleague, I would not look forward to the "damage control" I would have to use with patients you had upset with your rude and tactless comments. I say this with the best intentions. I believe you need some self-reflection.

Orthomodel: Congrats on your acceptance!!!

 

[Gut Shot]

so I disagree with the person who said that people who take the MCAT multiple times aren't good test takers

Then what are they?

will take the boards multiple times.

The data argues otherwise.

 

[batman1983]

Whoa 👎

I hope that you guys displayed this level of compassion for and understanding of others in your applications/interviews.

Allow me to quote from a wise poster by the name of Corker:

If you are considering a career in medicine, I wonder if you wouldn't be more successful as a lawyer or businessperson. Doctors need to have a sensitivity and compassion that has not been apparent in the tone of your posts. I have worked with THOUSANDS of sick people, and it is a bit distressing to me to think of a person with your personality (or at least what I PERCEIVE to be your personality, based on your posts) damaging the delicate feelings and hopes of patients who are suffering. I hope you will work on developing some tact before you venture out into the medical field. As a potential future colleague, I would not look forward to the "damage control" I would have to use with patients you had upset with your rude and tactless comments. I say this with the best intentions. I believe you need some self-reflection.

Orthomodel: Congrats on your acceptance!!!

This has nothing to do with the compassion compared to treating a patient. If anything, I am doing a favor by being blunt and direct to the poster, and not deluding the poster with extreme cases/situations of ppl having taken the MCATs >3 times and getting in. Now, obviously ppl with lower than 30 MCATs do get into med school, but usually this is supplemented by a high GPA. The poster on the other hand, does not have a strong GPA, and based on the nature of the post, I am assuming that more likely than not, is having a hard time getting interviews due to the low GPA. Thus, he/she has tried to supplement it by doing well on the MCAT. Unfortunately, he/she has done poorly the first 2 times, and did decent on the 3rd attempt (30), but not high enough to overcome the lower GPA. Furthermore, I am going to assume that since the poster has taken the exam 3 times and has a true motivation to pursue healthcare, he/she probably put a lot of effort it into for the 2nd and at least the 3rd time. Thus, even if he/she puts more effort into it, there probably will not be much of a change in scores, especially since the score is now higher and there is less room for improvement compared to the lower scores. If anything, it might actually even be drop, further wasting the poster's time and damaging his/her chances.

Lets be frank about this, compared with the rest of the medical pathway, the MCAT will probably be the easiest thing. Ask any medical school student (just look at the above posts), and they will agree with me on this. Now, hopefully, the poster does get into medical school, and thus doesn't have to take the MCAT again. But, if the poster doesn't get in, after having taken the exam 3 times, he/she might want to start thinking about other options. One of which I mentioned was pursuing a DO. The poster's stats are more than sufficient to enter a DO, which allows for the practice of medicine and can allow the poster to do many of the same things as an MD.

Now to personally criticize me or to judge me based on the advice given in my post, just shows your own naivety; something that I hope you will address before entering medicine. Life isn't fair and sometimes people need to face the music. To constantly delude them, is not only unfair to them, but also shows weakness on your part.

 

[barto123]

Whoa 👎

I hope that you guys displayed this level of compassion for and understanding of others in your applications/interviews.

Allow me to quote from a wise poster by the name of Corker:

If you are considering a career in medicine, I wonder if you wouldn't be more successful as a lawyer or businessperson. Doctors need to have a sensitivity and compassion that has not been apparent in the tone of your posts. I have worked with THOUSANDS of sick people, and it is a bit distressing to me to think of a person with your personality (or at least what I PERCEIVE to be your personality, based on your posts) damaging the delicate feelings and hopes of patients who are suffering. I hope you will work on developing some tact before you venture out into the medical field. As a potential future colleague, I would not look forward to the "damage control" I would have to use with patients you had upset with your rude and tactless comments. I say this with the best intentions. I believe you need some self-reflection.

Orthomodel: Congrats on your acceptance!!!

your optimism and idealism are making me sick, stop attacking people for giving the OP realistic advice. taking the MCAT more than three times to achieve an acceptable score shows that you are probably not cut out to pursue an MD.

 

[45408]

I also took the MCAT multiple times until I was getting the score that I wanted...but they were PRACTICE tests! I took the real thing 1 time. That's what practice tests are for. No one should do this with the real thing.

Not to mention how much it costs.

Also, the MCAT is a small part of a long list of things that med schools evaluate when deciding who to admit. For all the interviews I've had, I've only spent 5 minutes or less talking about my scores, the schools were more interested in finding out what kind of person I am and what life/clinical experience I've had and what I got out of my courses as opposed to stats.

That's because that's what the interview is for. If your MCAT wasn't good enough in the first place, you wouldn't even have gotten an interview. What is there to discuss about your MCAT? "Oh, I see you got a 32." "Yep." "Okay." The MCAT is a large part of a long list of things they evaluate.

Now that I know what works for me (review courses and living at the library 3weeks before the test) I can apply that to my preparation for the boards; so I disagree with the person who said that people who take the MCAT multiple times aren't good test takers will take the boards multiple times.

The statistics show otherwise, which is why adcoms utilize the MCAT as an evaluation tool. People who do well on the MCAT will tend to do well on the Step 1, and vice versa. I learned what works for me by taking lots of practice tests and seeing how my performance varied, rather than taking the actual test repeatedly. Besides, up until recently, you had to wait 6 months between attempts, which is a significant delay if you take the MCAT several times.

 

[PleaseBelieveit]

Waterbuffalo here is my advice...only YOU know if you are cut out for medicine...only YOU know the time you are willing to devote to studying and the level of dedication you are willing to give patients..we don't know your circumstances during those first two tries on MCAT...but on your third try you got a 30....if allopathic schools are not going to accept you based on the "extra tries" then try your luck with osteopathic schools...I have a friend who took it twice and she scored less than a 30 both times...she was accepted to PCOM this year...so..on one hand..you took it one more time than her..on the other hand..you scored higher than her...Are either of you two more or less qualified..probably not...so I say now that you have the 30...stick with it...and see what you can pull off when you apply...if you show these schools through ECs that you are a driven person then one of these schools would probably give you an opportunity...it seems that most of these schools would be osteopathic schools according to the posts in this thread...but this shouldn't matter!! if you are becoming a doctor for the right reasons it doesn't matter where you go..what does matter is that you will be practicing when you graduate😀

 

[Maxprime]

1) Absolutely do not take it 3 times, more than three times, and really try not to take it twice. If you're getting consistent low scores on multiple tries, you're not an idiot because of your score - you're an idiot because you continue to take it without preparing properly. I say don't take it twice b/c you can put in 1,000 hours for 1 try or 500 hours twice - the data shows that the former yields much higher scores.

2) The person who claims to be involved in the process says they 'red flag' apps with 3+ tries. Unless he/she is a liar, this is pretty good evidence that it's looked upon poorly.

3) If you can't crack a decent score on the MCAT in more than 3 tries, I don't see how it's reasonable to assume you'll pass your boards. People do fail them, but now you're testing in a subset of people who all did decently well on the MCAT.

4) Obviously, nothing's impossible. What's done is done - if you really want a white coat, keep trying (but plan better).

 

[cbsmd]

sorry for being so blunt but if you do not have the discipline to take the test seriously the first time then I would question my personal ability when it comes to medicine. ... .remember that being a doctor is a life long learning experience

 

[ufgrad00]

Whoa 👎

I hope that you guys displayed this level of compassion for and understanding of others in your applications/interviews.

Allow me to quote from a wise poster by the name of Corker:

If you are considering a career in medicine, I wonder if you wouldn't be more successful as a lawyer or businessperson. Doctors need to have a sensitivity and compassion that has not been apparent in the tone of your posts. I have worked with THOUSANDS of sick people, and it is a bit distressing to me to think of a person with your personality (or at least what I PERCEIVE to be your personality, based on your posts) damaging the delicate feelings and hopes of patients who are suffering. I hope you will work on developing some tact before you venture out into the medical field. As a potential future colleague, I would not look forward to the "damage control" I would have to use with patients you had upset with your rude and tactless comments. I say this with the best intentions. I believe you need some self-reflection.

Orthomodel: Congrats on your acceptance!!!

Thanks for keeping things in perspective for why we became interested in medicine as opposed to a more financially secure field.

Congrats on your acceptance Orthomodel!

I have issue with a lot of the comments people are making on those who take the MCAT 2 or more times. First off, not everyone can afford Kaplan or other test prep so in today's admissions process where test prep classes fill up within a few weeks, those who cannot afford them are at a disadvantage. Secondly, a score like a 27 today is not like it was a decade or so ago, when it meant much more, but because of the increase in applicants, as well as the prevalence of in-class test prep, MCAT averages have been increasing higher every year.

Many posters need to be realistic. The vast majority of test-takers cannot score a 33+ on their first attempt, and the difference between a "secure" 30 and a 27 can be only three questions.

 

[Maxprime]

sorry for being so blunt but if you do not have the discipline to take the test seriously the first time then I would question my personal ability when it comes to medicine. ... .remember that being a doctor is a life long learning experience

I don't think it's inappropriate to be blunt with people - without some emotion they don't understand how serious you are. "Schools won't like it" and "they'll think you're an idiot" are two completely different answers.

In these types of situations, I think it's best to hold back from attacks - but if someone is being an idiot - I think we're in a community where we should be honest about it.

For example, in undergrad I was an idiot. If asked (even in an interview) I will gladly admit I was being an idiot - with a positive spin 🙂 . Acceptance is the first step towards recovery.

 

[ufgrad00]

sorry for being so blunt but if you do not have the discipline to take the test seriously the first time then I would question my personal ability when it comes to medicine. ... .remember that being a doctor is a life long learning experience

And I question the discipline of someone who lacks the reserve to keep oversimplified conclusions to themselves.

 

[Maxprime]

I have issue with a lot of the comments people are making on those who take the MCAT 2 or more times. First off, not everyone can afford Kaplan or other test prep so in today's admissions process where test prep classes fill up within a few weeks, those who cannot afford them are at a disadvantage. Secondly, a score like a 27 today is not like it was a decade or so ago, when it meant much more, but because of the increase in applicants, as well as the prevalence of in-class test prep, MCAT averages have been increasing higher every year.

Many posters need to be realistic. The vast majority of test-takers cannot score a 33+ on their first attempt, and the difference between a "secure" 30 and a 27 can be only three questions.

If you can score a X on your second attempt, you can score it on your first attempt without looking as bad. If you can do it on your 4th, you can do it on your first without looking nearly as bad.

 

[Maxprime]

And I question the discipline of someone who lacks the reserve to keep oversimplified conclusions to themselves.

Would you rather someone say, "Hey OP! Don't even take it, go to the Carib and find a school that will cash your $100k check. Then in 2 years when you can't pass the boards because you don't test well, you'll be in better shape."

 

[Kthanksbye]

I don't think it's inappropriate to be blunt with people - without some emotion they don't understand how serious you are. "Schools won't like it" and "they'll think you're an idiot" are two completely different answers.

In these types of situations, I think it's best to hold back from attacks - but if someone is being an idiot - I think we're in a community where we should be honest about it.

For example, in undergrad I was an idiot. If asked (even in an interview) I will gladly admit I was being an idiot - with a positive spin 🙂 . Acceptance is the first step towards recovery.

You'd this this were true, but on this board, someone will hit the mommy button and you'll get an email telling you that you insulted someone.

 

[ufgrad00]

You have to think about the increase in acceptable MCAT averages. To most people who took the MCAT it is very difficult to make a 26. Just 4 to 5 years ago a 26 would get you into your state school and definitely into most DO programs. But now with a 26, it's near impossible or you have to have quite a story to get into an MD school, and you aren't even competitive today for DO schools.

 

[Maxprime]

I've had a ton of people tell me I'd never get in anywhere. You need to be made aware of your situation in full honesty. If all it takes is someone saying it probably won't happen for you to quit, you've found the source of your low score.

 

[45408]

Just 4 to 5 years ago a 26 would get you into your state school

That's simply not the case. A few students may have gotten in with a 26 back then, but the averages have not changed by more than a point. The average MCAT score in 2000 was a 24.3 or so, and the average for 2007 was a 25.1. Not exactly a 4 point shift.

 

[ufgrad00]

I've had a ton of people tell me I'd never get in anywhere. You need to be made aware of your situation in full honesty. If all it takes is someone saying it probably won't happen for you to quit, you've found the source of your low score.

There is a difference between "full honesty"(struggling to make a 22), and the changing profiles of applicants (averages of 30+). Many people who scored a 27 will not get into a MD school this cycle. But to think that those who could only score a 27 will not pass the USMLE is bogus. If that were the case, the vast majority of DOs would never have gone into MD residencies.

 

[ufgrad00]

That's simply not the case. A few students may have gotten in with a 26 back then, but the averages have not changed by more than a point. The average MCAT score in 2000 was a 24.3 or so, and the average for 2007 was a 25.1. Not exactly a 4 point shift.

As far as state schools are concerned, the national average is not important. It is your state's average MCAT which matters. States like California and Florida have been hammered with an increase in applicants over the past 5 years and thus the MCAT average of those accepted in the state has increased.

 

[45408]

As far as state schools are concerned, the national average is not important. It is your state's average MCAT which matters. States like California and Florida have been hammered with an increase in applicants over the past 5 years and thus the MCAT average of those accepted in the state has increased.

State schools comprise a large portion of the national average. FWIW, neither of Wisconsin's schools have seen an increase anywhere near what you're suggesting.

 

[Vihsadas]

The reason that the acceptance MCAT averages are going up, but the actual MCAT averages are not, is because there are slightly more people taking the MCAT (more people with 30+), and not a comparable increase in medical schools spots.

 

[ufgrad00]

State schools comprise a large portion of the national average. FWIW, neither of Wisconsin's schools have seen an increase anywhere near what you're suggesting.

I'll say that an increase of 4 points is a bit much. However, almost all schools in Florida except UF have seen increased averages of 2 to 3 points. For instance, the average for USF was just around 28 in 2003, yet last year it was 31.

My beef is with the people who say that some applicants this cycle, who would have been competitive a few years ago, are incompetent and lack discipline because they couldn't score into the 30's.

 

[Isoprop]

The reason that the acceptance MCAT averages are going up, but the actual MCAT averages are not, is because there are slightly more people taking the MCAT (more people with 30+), and not a comparable increase in medical schools spots.

this is what i think as well. the average matriculant is now around 32 according to the current msar (11-11-10, i'm not sure which section is the 10 but i believe it is PS).

 

[batman1983]

You have to think about the increase in acceptable MCAT averages. To most people who took the MCAT it is very difficult to make a 26. Just 4 to 5 years ago a 26 would get you into your state school and definitely into most DO programs. But now with a 26, it's near impossible or you have to have quite a story to get into an MD school, and you aren't even competitive today for DO schools.

Man, I wish I wasnt from CA........Btw, how many hrs did some of you studying for the MCATs? I put in about 200, which I thought was the norm. But apparently, from reading ppls posts, to score really high, they put in 500+ hrs.

 

[Maxprime]

My beef is with the people who say that some applicants this cycle, who would have been competitive a few years ago, are incompetent and lack discipline because they couldn't score into the 30's.

The issue discussed here was not having a low MCAT score (I even explicitly stated that). The issue is doing poorly on the MCAT 4 or 5 times. That is a lack of discipline. If you tried your best and your 'talent/intelligence/whatever' somehow limited you to a 22, if you've truly done your best then you can't beat that. Getting 4 more 22's isn't going to make it look better. Also, if you studied another few months for an exam and were starting off from the ability to get a 22, with hard work your score will go up.

 

[Maxprime]

Man, I wish I wasnt from CA........Btw, how many hrs did some of you studying for the MCATs? I put in about 200, which I thought was the norm. But apparently, from reading ppls posts, to score really high, they put in 500+ hrs.

I did actuarial exams in college - the rule we were given was 100 hours per hour of exam. Personally, I think that's excessive for the MCAT - but it's a great rule for doing very well on standardized tests.

I took all my pre-reqs in the year before the exam, so I don't think it's fair to take my numbers out of context. After finishing orgo in the summer, I crammed for a week and a half - working 7-8 hours a day. But, again, I had all my gen chem, physics, and bio finals just 3 months beforehand.

 

[ufgrad00]

The issue discussed here was not having a low MCAT score (I even explicitly stated that). The issue is doing poorly on the MCAT 4 or 5 times. That is a lack of discipline. If you tried your best and your 'talent/intelligence/whatever' somehow limited you to a 22, if you've truly done your best then you can't beat that. Getting 4 more 22's isn't going to make it look better. Also, if you studied another few months for an exam and were starting off from the ability to get a 22, with hard work your score will go up.

True. I understand that some applicants are chasing a pipe dream thinking they can treat the MCAT like the ACT or SAT and take it until they get a satisfactory score. And you are right as well, usually applicants who work hard after making a low score, take it again do much better. I had to take it twice as well.

But some of the posts on the thread are basically saying that if you can't do it well the first time, then you lack the discipline for med-school all together, which is totally false.

 

[Vihsadas]

I did actuarial exams in college - the rule we were given was 100 hours per hour of exam. Personally, I think that's excessive for the MCAT - but it's a great rule for doing very well on standardized tests.

I took all my pre-reqs in the year before the exam, so I don't think it's fair to take my numbers out of context. After finishing orgo in the summer, I crammed for a week and a half - working 7-8 hours a day. But, again, I had all my gen chem, physics, and bio finals just 3 months beforehand.

If I studied 100hrs for the MCAT I would have gotten a 31-33. I'm not saying that more studying necessarily = better MCAT, but for me, it was studying smart, learning how to beat the test, and studying 500hrs. Kudos to you for doing well with only 100hrs.

 

[batman1983]

I did actuarial exams in college - the rule we were given was 100 hours per hour of exam. Personally, I think that's excessive for the MCAT - but it's a great rule for doing very well on standardized tests.

If I studied 100hrs for the MCAT I would have gotten a 31-33. I'm not saying that more studying necessarily = better MCAT, but for me, it was studying smart, learning how to beat the test, and studying 500hrs. Kudos to you for doing well with only 100hrs.

I think Maxprime meant at least 300 hrs(100 hrs per hour of the exam, and 3-6 for the MCATs, depending on which you took) for the MCATs then....