DO schools in Canada?

[DrB]

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Anyone know if it is too late to apply to Canada schools? I can't believe we have 4 more years 🙁

I am seriously considering moving.

Do Osteopathic schools have residencies in Canada? Are DO's recognized in Canada?

 

[docbill]

DrB I sent you an IM... Plus make sure to always include DO/ osteopathy in this link... otherwise we will get sensored and transfered to the pits of SDN, hehehehe

 

[docbill]

DOs are recognized in Canada, as equals to MDs. We are working on getting residency training/specialization recognized as well. Right now it is do able but not clear directions for this. Unfotunately, you have to be a Canadian resident to practice... unless you get a special invite because of shortage. Which is possible.

Unfortunately the DO school here is for people with a medical degree or health professional who want to learn OMT. Hopefuly that will change as well. The problem with that is that most schools are becoming closer to Osteopathic philosophy and will have a difficult time getting a DO school to open. Who knows.

Anyway good luck with the move.. California to Vancouver is not that long a drive.
BA

 

[babyruth]

Sympathize, from another post Barbados and the Cayman islands have unlimited practicing rights, you might want to stick it out and then move to the beach. I'm thinking about it---know that you are not alone!

 

[DrFeelgoodDO]

yeah, its quite unfortunate...another 4 years. Too bad that if you stay in the states (which I hope you don't), that your malpractice insurance may actually be lower and there may actually be tort reform. I hear greyhound has some great deals....i would be willing to take some of my tax savings and donate it to a few bus rides for a few fascists.....

 

[ninokim2003]

yeah, its quite unfortunate...another 4 years. Too bad that if you stay in the states (which I hope you don't), that your malpractice insurance may actually be lower and there may actually be tort reform. I hear greyhound has some great deals....i would be willing to take some of my tax savings and donate it to a few bus rides for a few fascists.....

i wanna go to the developing countreys this summer, wanna take part in a mission, can u tell me how can i do that?
is it possible. 🙄

 

[medic170]

Anyone know if it is too late to apply to Canada schools? I can't believe we have 4 more years 🙁

I am seriously considering moving.

Do Osteopathic schools have residencies in Canada? Are DO's recognized in Canada?

Its really sad that someone would disown his country just because the majority elected someone you disagree with. Give me a break. How about instead of being a bitter Bush basher, we all try to work together to break the liberal/conservative divide in this country, or are you one of those Michael Moore cultists?

 

[docbill]

Medic170, even though I am not a US citizen and you will care little what I have to say. Respectfuly, I will add my 2 cents or (1.65 cents canadian, and going up thanks to re-election). You may know a great deal about osteopathy and DO studies, and that is obvious.. and you can answer with complete acuracy on this topic. However politics is a completely different issue. You can not ask people to simply ignore extreme right or left wing activity... and try to work together. Majority in my mind is not 51% to 49%. Time will tell a different story... and we shall wait and see what the conclusion is.... untill then I hope no one gets drafted.

To stay on topic... Canada has almost unlimited practicing rights for US trained DOs. And soon will recognize most specialties and will make it even easier.

 

[medic170]

Medic170, even though I am not a US citizen and you will care little what I have to say. Respectfuly, I will add my 2 cents or (1.65 cents canadian, and going up thanks to re-election). You may know a great deal about osteopathy and DO studies, and that is obvious.. and you can answer with complete acuracy on this topic. However politics is a completely different issue. You can not ask people to simply ignore extreme right or left wing activity... and try to work together. Majority in my mind is not 51% to 49%. Time will tell a different story... and we shall wait and see what the conclusion is.... untill then I hope no one gets drafted.

To stay on topic... Canada has almost unlimited practicing rights for US trained DOs. And soon will recognize most specialties and will make it even easier.

Bill,

I was a social science (political science cognate) major, so I do know about politics. I understand and respect your views as well. Just to respond to you though, Clinton never won 51% of the popular vote, in fact, the last person to do it was GB senior. If you look at the state elections, the proposals passed, and the house and senate elections, it is clear that the left wing liberals do not speak for the majority of Americans.

Lastly, there is no draft and there will be no draft. GWB said outright he does not support it, and anyone with knowledge of the American governemnt knows that the President has NO authority to institute a draft, only congress does. the only authority the Pres. has would be to sign or veto draft legislation. People seem to not understand that , other than foreign policy and admisnistrative duty, the President has little power. For example, The Pres. does not "roll back taxes" he proposes it, and congress votes on it. ALL Legislation must originate in congress, and ALL spending must originate in the House.

 

[Nate]

To be brief, well said medic170. I am someone who voted against Bush for whatever reasons that are not important now, but I think that we all need to work together and find common ground to stand on.

Its really sad that someone would disown his country just because the majority elected someone you disagree with. Give me a break. How about instead of being a bitter Bush basher, we all try to work together to break the liberal/conservative divide in this country, or are you one of those Michael Moore cultists?

 

[DrB]

Now before we all get booted to the everyone, forum I just thought I would try and bring the discussion back to the subject at hand.

Going to Canada to practice medicine is not only about Bush, but also about working in a health care system that tries to provide for all people. To work in a system that treats the whole population is, I believe, very osteopathic in principle.

With regards to my politics... I voted for anyone but Bush and we will have to see what the next 4-year sentence will bring. I also would like to say that lowering malpractice insurance would not solve the problems of high cost of health care.... Again I take a look at Canada as an example.

"Come the millennium, month 12, in the home of the greatest power, the village idiot will come forth to be acclaimed the leader." -Nostradamus 1555

 

[PublicEnemy]

yeah, i'm pretty distinct with my political views. to say i'm a liberal is an understatement. to say i disagree with many of the actions of the current administration is also an understatement. and like 50million or so others, i also voted for kerry and i too am dissappointed in the outcome of the election.

personally i don't think the outcome of the election alone is any legitamate reason for leaving the country. i mean we all joke about moving to canada or mexico, but how many of us are serious about it? but each person is entitled to their own opinion, and people are free to leave for whatever reason without any justification.

canada does provide some great medical school opportunities. i too would be curious to learn about options and whether or not they typically accept non-citizens or non-residents if even just for an information perspective.

as far as the draft issue, i doubt that would happen, but there is a pending case for a soldier in the reserves who's been called to active duty but doesn't feel he should have to go because of that whole stop-loss deal. if the courts rule in his favor, then potentially thousands of reservists of are actively serving in iraq or other places will have the right to come back immediately. that would be problematic for the military.

 

[Nate]

With one hand you condemn our government but with the other you wish to hand over control of health-care to them.

 

[DrB]

I have now looked into med schools in Canada through the web. First thing I found out is that there are no DO schools 🙁

Second, most do not take foreign students 🙁

If I find any new info out I will post it. That being said... what would be wrong with government funded med? If it was managed by an independent institution (overseen by docs), funded by taxes (who cares how much it costs when you understand the next point), and covered everyone!

So many other countries have this type of system why can't we? It is essential to the osteopathic principles to treat an entire person not just the symptom. Future DOs should understand why we should treat an entire population and not just the rich.

 

[JohnDO]

Because I don't want to pay for anyone's poor self-control.

(who cares how much it costs when you understand the next point)

I do. I don't care how many people are getting free health care, it's my money and I want to dictate what I do with my money. Personal freedom and personal responsibility are the basis for this country, and the founding fathers would be spinning in their graves at the idea of a social health program.

You're saying that you're looking in to leaving this country because of the government out of one side of your mouth, and out of the other side your asking whats so bad about putting your healthcare in the hands of the government. Am I the only one who sees the dichotomy here?

Not to mention the logistics of implementing such a system without blowing incentives for doctors to work harder, taxing the country into oblivion, fighting back frothing trial lawyers, and creating a tiered system in which people have to wait several months before they can get treatment.

 

[Nate]

People abuse the system when it's "free". Look at the UK and even right here at our public ERs.

 

[Boomer]

Majority in my mind is not 51% to 49%.

Sorry in advance, off topic for the main part of the thread, but:

What, then, in your mind IS the definition of majority, if not >50%? What kind of math are they teaching you in Canada?

 

[docbill]

Dear Boomer,

If you did not get what I meant... then you should ask someone else to explain it to you. Don't insult Canada because of your ignorance. But then again, I am sorry to you, since you are what gives the majority Americans a bad reputation around the world.

The majority of Americans (majority still to be defined) that I have met in Canada, USA, or abroad are great citizens of the world. But every now and than someone pops their head and sais something completely stupit to insult a whole nation. Next time if you have something directly against me then just say it to me... don't insult Canada.

 

[docbill]

In Canada we have somewhat of a socialist system. Each person still pays a sliding fee for health care (monthly fee). If you are well off, than you will pay about ~1500- 2000 a year. If you are poor, you pay nothing. Socialist medical system takes place in Europe, and it seems to be doing just fine. Sure physicians don't get payed as much there.

To take a doctor to court in Canada, which rarely happens, one must have the full cost of legal fees for both sides and still it is not that easy. Judges are not so crazy to award millions.

Also less money gets spent on BS, insurance companies. You can choose your phycisian. DO, DC and accupuncture is covered almost all provinces. Some provinces include free Dental and eye care till the age of 16 or 18, and on top of that we have law protecting high prices for life saving drugs. If you don't have money, you can file for 80% to be payed by government.

Everyone here wants to be a doctor... in reality to save lives... if someone is dying, are you going to ask for his or her insurance papers. Or money... if your answer is YES, then I surely don't wish to practice with you.

 

[medic170]

Because I don't want to pay for anyone's poor self-control.

I do. I don't care how many people are getting free health care, it's my money and I want to dictate what I do with my money. Personal freedom and personal responsibility are the basis for this country, and the founding fathers would be spinning in their graves at the idea of a social health program.

You're saying that you're looking in to leaving this country because of the government out of one side of your mouth, and out of the other side your asking whats so bad about putting your healthcare in the hands of the government. Am I the only one who sees the dichotomy here?

Not to mention the logistics of implementing such a system without blowing incentives for doctors to work harder, taxing the country into oblivion, fighting back frothing trial lawyers, and creating a tiered system in which people have to wait several months before they can get treatment.

I could not have said it better myself. Why is so hard for people to understand that this country was fouded on personal property rights, and I do not want anyone dictating where MY MONEY goes. I have worked my ass off for it, and whether or not I want to fund other people's healthcare should be MY CHOICE! I have just 5 words to sum up what America was founded, and ought, to stand for
Personal responsibility
Equality of opportunity (NOT Equality)

 

[medic170]

Judges are not so crazy to award millions.

.

I honestly don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. JURIES make civil case awards, not judges, so that point is moot.


Also, I wrote a paper my senior year about the wait times, dissatisfaction, and sub-par health care socialzed health care has caused in Canada. Here are few links to check out for anyone interested.

Here is the OFFICIAL waitlist and wait times from the government homepage of Alberta, CA http://www.health.gov.ab.ca/waitlist/WaitListPublicHome.jsp

Here are some articles from Canadian economists and physicians
Canada's Broken Health Care System: http://www.pierrelemieux.org/artbroken.html

Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience
http://www.pierrelemieux.org/arthealthfreeman.html


Here is an small sample:
With a universal public system that creates entitlements and encourages over-consumption, and a public monopoly to run the delivery of medical services, the Canadian system combines the inefficiencies of government-run enterprises with the failures of monopoly. The result is not surprising: waiting lines. The Fraser Institute, a free-market think tank in Vancouver, has calculated that, in 2003, the average waiting time from referral by a general practitioner to actual treatment was more than four months. Waiting times are high even for critical diseases: the shortest median wait is 6.1 weeks for oncology treatment, excluding radiation which takes longer. Extreme cases include more than a year median wait for neuro-surgery in New Brunswick. The median wait for an MRI in Canada is three months. Since 1993, waiting times have increased by 90 percent. A class action lawsuit has been recently launched against Qu?bec hospitals on behalf of 10,000 breast cancer patients who, since October 1997, have had to wait more than eight weeks for post-surgery radiation therapy.


I do enjoy an intelligent debate 😀

 

[Boomer]

Dear Boomer,

If you did not get what I meant... then you should ask someone else to explain it to you. Don't insult Canada because of your ignorance. But then again, I am sorry to you, since you are what gives the majority Americans a bad reputation around the world.

The majority of Americans (majority still to be defined) that I have met in Canada, USA, or abroad are great citizens of the world. But every now and than someone pops their head and sais something completely stupit to insult a whole nation. Next time if you have something directly against me then just say it to me... don't insult Canada.

Well, let's see. You said, "majority in my mind is not 51%..." Then, when I point it out, you say I didn't know what you meant. This leads me to one of two possible conclusions:

1. You suck at math. Forgive me for "insulting Canada," but if they're teaching you that >50% is NOT a majority, then it's a system problem. If it's just your OPINION that >50% is not a majority, then it's your problem. You need remediation.

2. You simply lack the communication skills, or command of the English language, to convey what you meant.

Either way, it was you who made the obvious "stupit" comment.

You know, for someone who likes to bitch about America and her choices so much, you sure seem interested in obtaining your medical education here....curious....

 

[docbill]

Well.. okay.. you got me on that one.. judges don't decide.. it is the jury.
Correction "The jury doesn't award crazy amounts".

2nd... The health care system in Canada is fine. Also the government, under public pressure decided to put more money in to for the next few years to catch up for shortage.

It is not as fast as in the US, but people are satisfied with it. If we wanted we could of changed it... but people decided to keep it the way it is. Some places are underserved and you have longer waiting period... some area need more doctors and advanced machinery.

There are other studies out there, regarding the number of Cardiac surgeries taking place in Canada and US, and yes.. there are many many more in the US then in Canada. But mortality rates are the same.

You choose your preference, I will choose mine. You can put up as many links as you want. I did not do my degree in that field. I am sure if you really wanted to.. you can find someone who did, who supports the opposite view.

 

[medic170]

Well, let's see. You said, "majority in my mind is not 51%..." Then, when I point it out, you say I didn't know what you meant. This leads me to one of two possible conclusions:

1. You suck at math. Forgive me for "insulting Canada," but if they're teaching you that >50% is NOT a majority, then it's a system problem. If it's just your OPINION that >50% is not a majority, then it's your problem. You need remediation.

2. You simply lack the communication skills, or command of the English language, to convey what you meant.

Either way, it was you who made the obvious "stupit" comment.

You know, for someone who likes to bitch about America and her choices so much, you sure seem interested in obtaining your medical education here....curious....

Let's all chill with the insults. I enjoy a FRIENDLY and INTELLIGENT debate. Now, I have debated with docbill before, and while I totally disagree with his politics, he is a nice guy who I have respect for. I have also ready many intelligent posts by boomer, who I often do agree with, so just simmer down and debate nicely fellas 😀 No need to insult eachother or anyone's country.

 

[docbill]

Well, let's see. You said, "majority in my mind is not 51%..." Then, when I point it out, you say I didn't know what you meant. This leads me to one of two possible conclusions:

1. You suck at math. Forgive me for "insulting Canada," but if they're teaching you that >50% is NOT a majority, then it's a system problem. If it's just your OPINION that >50% is not a majority, then it's your problem. You need remediation.

2. You simply lack the communication skills, or command of the English language, to convey what you meant.

Either way, it was you who made the obvious "stupit" comment.

You know, for someone who likes to bitch about America and her choices so much, you sure seem interested in obtaining your medical education here....curious....

You are completely right... it is me that is the idiot, cause I waste my time answering you.

Just a small correction. I did not bitch about America and her choices... I THINK VERY HIGHLY OF THE US. Don't put words in my mouth. Just because I am not a republicant, it doesn't mean I am against all American policy. If you feel so strongly about, other nationals studying at your institutions, than you should lobby against it. I don't even think you can comprehend the advancements to science,medicine or arts that are made because of foreigners studying/teaching in the US.

Also, my command of the English language, and other languages, is perfectly fine. So bite me!

 

[docbill]

Let's all chill with the insults. I enjoy a FRIENDLY and INTELLIGENT debate. Now, I have debated with docbill before, and while I totally disagree with his politics, he is a nice guy who I have respect for. I have also ready many intelligent posts by boomer, who I often do agree with, so just simmer down and debate nicely fellas 😀 No need to insult eachother or anyone's country.

Thanks Medic, feeling is the same, even though we disagree on this issue, I am sure we prob agree on many more things. It is always good to have friendly, productive debate.

I withdraw any insults that flew out of rage.
BA

 

[DrB]

I also have great respect for Docbills posts, sorry for bringing up such a hot topic. Thank you Medic for your reassurance for the need of intelligent debate on the subject. Also thank you for the insightful links, it goes to show that no system is perfect. I see the problems, but still commend Canada for moving in the right direction. Bush's plan is not on the right track, and I think it may take health care in America to new lows. Instead of the US looking at Canada as an example, Canada looks at the US at what not to do. Here are a few links of my own:

http://itsa.ucsf.edu/~newman/Healing_American_Healthcare.htm

http://www.healthcareforall.org/index.html

http://www.pnhp.org/

Hope this takes some of the heat off of you DocBill