DO specific admissions questions; New school?

[ladyoflucky13]

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Hello,

I had a previous post about a similar topic, but was told it would fare better in the DO specific forums. So, here I am. You can check out the full thing here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=701259 .

DO stats - cumGPA:3.47; sciGPA: 3.22 Chemistry Major

ECs
Freshman year - ~200 hrs conversing with foreign students to improve their English through ELI at OSU.
Sophomore year - Study abroad in Ecuador/China (does this count as an EC since it was through the school?)
Senior (5th year) - ~50 hours at Humane Society

As I've had health issues (and corresponding GPA and lacking ECs issues), I'm leaning towards applying in 2012 and using the year to retake a couple classes, become and work as a CNA, and do more volunteer work.

However, there is going to be a new medical school opening up just 35 minutes away from me that will have a charter class starting in 2011 (Western University Northwest in Lebanon, Oregon). My thought is that since this is a charter class, the admissions process may be more lenient and fewer people may be applying (not to mention they may offer more scholarships, etc). Would it be worth rushing to get LORs, boost my ECs, and taking my MCAT to try and apply by 2011 given that it may be easier to get in or have better scholarships then (with a GPA lower than if I spent a year retaking classes)?

My main Questions:
1. How do DO schools look upon RETAKING the same class twice (as in taking the class 3 total times; I mean the live admissions people, not the GPA calculation)?
2. Is Humane Society volunteering good/bad? Should I switch to clinical/medical volunteering?
3. Is the chance of getting into a new medical school good enough to rush my application for 2011 (and have less ECs, rushed LORs, last minute volunteering, etc.) or should I just relax knowing that my application will be much more complete, rounded, and competitive in 2012, so I should have a good chance of getting in then, too?
4. If I were to continue my ELI volunteering this coming year, when I entered it on the application, would I simply put the dates as being from Freshman-Senior and not note the fact that I didn't volunteer there for three years or do I need to list the two years seperately?
5. Does my year abroad count as an EC since it was through a university system program? If not, what does it count as? Is there a place for it on the AACOMAS application?

Thank you for taking a look. Sorry for having previous similar posts, but I was advised to make a new one and stick it in this section as opposed to the pre-allo WAMC. I made the initial mistake of making a new post in the pre-allo forum instead of just editing my first post. I apologize for that. Any more questions I have, I'll update on the posts I already have.

I added two additional questions above and tried to cut down my length significantly. 🙂

 

[VooDooo327]

1. How do DO schools look upon retaking the same class twice (I mean the live admissions people, not the GPA calculation)?

- If you get an interview they may ask why you needed to take the class twice. But also remember that they are giving you an interview knowing that you have retaken classes already.

2. Is Humane Society volunteering good/bad? Should I switch to clinical/medical volunteering?

- I think any volunteering is good but I think you could also use more medical and clinical experience. I don't see much there as far as medicine. I think the Humane Society will show your passion to help people and perhaps shadowing or more can show how you can do this as a physician.

3. Is the chance of getting into a new medical school good enough to rush my application for 2011 (and have less ECs, rushed LORs, last minute volunteering, etc.) or should I just relax knowing that my application will be much more complete, rounded, and competitive in 2012, so I should have a good chance of getting in then, too?

- I don't see an MCAT score but if you are planning to applying to 2011 I think you have plenty of time since the 2010 apps are still processing. A good MCAT can make up for your GPA if you are paranoid about that 😎

4. If I were to continue my ELI volunteering this coming year, when I entered it on the application, would I simply put the dates as being from Freshman-Senior and not note the fact that I didn't volunteer there for three years or do I need to list the two years seperately?

- You should probably list the two different times. I think you MAY be able to get away with listing it as one big time span but it comes down to your own ethics for that one

5. Does my year abroad count as an EC since it was through a university system program? If not, what does it count as? Is there a place for it on the AACOMAS application?

- Yes it is an EC. If I remember correctly they give you some space to describe the experience.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[Cheshyre]

Well, first off, you need a strong MCAT. With your stats, I'd say 30+, but shoot as high as you can. I have a 3.38cgpa, 3.17sgpa from a competitive school, but even with a 35S I'm barely getting interviews.

Secondly, you need clinical exposure. To the adcom, nothing says "I have no idea what I'm getting into" than a candidate who's never seen medicine from a non-patient perspective. You should find someone to shadow, preferably a DO. Some schools actually require a DO recommendation letter. If you don't know a DO, I hear that there's some kind of DO matching service at the AOA website but I'm not sure. I would personally suggest these two things:
1) Shadow a doc. I would split up hours between a primary care doc and one in a field you're interested in (if you have one). For me, I got 160 hours (yeah.. a little overboard but my pre-health advisor insisted for some reason) at a primary care clinic. The experience was awesome, and I highly recommend an "immersive" experience if you can schedule one. Nothing gets you a better look at practicing medicine than actually being there when the doc shows up for work and then following them through as much of their day as possible.
2) Volunteer in a medical area. Hospice, hospitals, clinics for the underserved, WHATEVER. Do it.
3) I did this because I thought I was going to work as an EMT this year (stuff came up and I'm a lab tech now), but I trained as an EMT-B. It was one of the best experiences of my life. Seriously. 80 hours of included clinical experience in the ER and in paramedic rigs makes for a fun time, especially when you're like me and schedule only graveyard shifts. I saw some pretty horrible stuff (car accidents, fights, overdoses, abuse), some neat stuff (imminent childbirth, people trying to break into the ER, tasers), and got to perform CPR in the real-world. Simply amazing. The only problem is you'll likely have to buy a uniform, devote 4 months to the course, and pay $1000.

Thirdly - do you have hobbies? Those are important. No admissions committee is going to say "wow, this person should get in because they're a rockstar," but, they will say, "okay, this person isn't a study robot. They have a life and they can juggle it in addition to their studies."

There IS enough time to get LORs if you act now. Start going to professors' office hours. If you want a good letter, they have to get to know you.

Those are my biggest questions on an initial review of what you've said.

Now, for your other questions:
1) Re-taking a class isn't so much of an issue if you improved significantly. Everybody makes mistakes. They want to see how you've grown, and they want to know that you're hardworking, smart, and mature enough to survive medical school.

2) The Humane Society isn't bad. Again, however, you need to show that you've seen the medical field. If you can't do both, you'll have to give up time at the Humane Society.

3) Not sure

4) Uh, you should definitely note in some way that your volunteering at ELI hasn't been continuous. If you try to imply that you've been there for 5 years straight, that's a lie. If you lie and get caught, you're done. If you don't get caught, you get to deal with the fact that you lied to try and get into medical school. I wouldn't do it. Seems like a lose-lose situation, but I'm stickler for these things.

5) A year abroad for study doesn't count as an EC in my eyes. It does show that you might have gotten a rudimentary awareness of the world to me, but not that much else.

Finally - I'm not sure how difficult it will be to get into a newer school.

Good luck!

 

[ladyoflucky13]

- You should probably list the two different times. I think you MAY be able to get away with listing it as one big time span but it comes down to your own ethics for that one

Thank you for all of your input!

The ethics of this is kind of what I'm pondering. Technically, it would probably make it SEEM better if I just lumped the dates together (because then who is to say I wasn't doing it the whole time?). However, I really don't want to be unethical about it. At the same time, though, I heard there was a limited space for listing ECs, so I am not sure if it is a good idea to use up that space listing something twice. Thoughts?

 

[NSU14]

With a decent MCAT ( upper 20s) you should get some interviews. I would apply to more that just one school though. I would get some DO shadowing and some volunteering in a hospital so you can put that on your app but all volunteering is good.

I'm not sure if there will be many scholership opportunities for you, most DO schools and i think med schools in general don't have many scholarships to offer.

It will probably be easier to get into the new school than other established DO schools but I doubt it will be more difficult in the second year, maybe once it proves itself as a good school.

 

[ladyoflucky13]

Thanks Cheshire and NSU14 for your additional input! I really appreciate you guys and Voodooo taking the time to read through my post and answer my questions. 🙂

 

[ladyoflucky13]

Thirdly - do you have hobbies? Those are important. No admissions committee is going to say "wow, this person should get in because they're a rockstar," but, they will say, "okay, this person isn't a study robot. They have a life and they can juggle it in addition to their studies."

4) Uh, you should definitely note in some way that your volunteering at ELI hasn't been continuous. If you try to imply that you've been there for 5 years straight, that's a lie. If you lie and get caught, you're done. If you don't get caught, you get to deal with the fact that you lied to try and get into medical school. I wouldn't do it. Seems like a lose-lose situation, but I'm stickler for these things.

Well, being sick has kept me from doing my hobbies. However, I was/am an avid scuba diver (Ecuador - Galapagos Islands baby!). I have my open water certification, advanced open water certification, and my rescue diver certification. I was planning on coming back to the U.S. and getting certified in night diving, enriched air, and propulsion vehicles as well, but my illness hit hard after I studied abroad, so I wasn't able to. I also enjoy singing and took two terms of Opera class at OSU (although since this is school I don't think it would be EC).

Is there any exact format for listing ECs? Could I write something like: 200 hours ELI volunteer, Freshman and Senior year....or would I have to put these on two seperate liness unless I write Fresh-Senior or 2006-2010 or whatever the format is? I hate to use two lines for the same thing, but I guess I should have an idea of the strictness of the format before I'll know for sure how to write it.

 

[Cheshyre]

Well, being sick has kept me from doing my hobbies. However, I was/am an avid scuba diver (Ecuador - Galapagos Islands baby!). I have my open water certification, advanced open water certification, and my rescue diver certification. I was planning on coming back to the U.S. and getting certified in night diving, enriched air, and propulsion vehicles as well, but my illness hit hard after I studied abroad, so I wasn't able to. I also enjoy singing and took two terms of Opera class at OSU (although since this is school I don't think it would be EC).

Is there any exact format for listing ECs? Could I write something like: 200 hours ELI volunteer, Freshman and Senior year....or would I have to put these on two seperate liness unless I write Fresh-Senior or 2006-2010 or whatever the format is? I hate to use two lines for the same thing, but I guess I should have an idea of the strictness of the format before I'll know for sure how to write it.

Okay, nice! Just be sure to list the diving then - it's obviously something you've sunk a lot of time into. Singing as well if you feel like you're into it enough to be able to talk about it in an interview. That's usually my litmus test for whether to list something. If it's important enough for you to explain/defend at an interview, it'll be fine on the app.

I don't remember if there's an exact format in EC listings. Usually directions are reasonably clear, and if not, just call the school or AACOMAS.

 

[Dr Yiot]

Well, first off, you need a strong MCAT. With your stats, I'd say 30+, but shoot as high as you can. I have a 3.38cgpa, 3.17sgpa from a competitive school, but even with a 35S I'm barely getting interviews.

Secondly, you need clinical exposure. To the adcom, nothing says "I have no idea what I'm getting into" than a candidate who's never seen medicine from a non-patient perspective. You should find someone to shadow, preferably a DO. Some schools actually require a DO recommendation letter. If you don't know a DO, I hear that there's some kind of DO matching service at the AOA website but I'm not sure. I would personally suggest these two things:
1) Shadow a doc. I would split up hours between a primary care doc and one in a field you're interested in (if you have one). For me, I got 160 hours (yeah.. a little overboard but my pre-health advisor insisted for some reason) at a primary care clinic. The experience was awesome, and I highly recommend an "immersive" experience if you can schedule one. Nothing gets you a better look at practicing medicine than actually being there when the doc shows up for work and then following them through as much of their day as possible.
2) Volunteer in a medical area. Hospice, hospitals, clinics for the underserved, WHATEVER. Do it.
3) I did this because I thought I was going to work as an EMT this year (stuff came up and I'm a lab tech now), but I trained as an EMT-B. It was one of the best experiences of my life. Seriously. 80 hours of included clinical experience in the ER and in paramedic rigs makes for a fun time, especially when you're like me and schedule only graveyard shifts. I saw some pretty horrible stuff (car accidents, fights, overdoses, abuse), some neat stuff (imminent childbirth, people trying to break into the ER, tasers), and got to perform CPR in the real-world. Simply amazing. The only problem is you'll likely have to buy a uniform, devote 4 months to the course, and pay $1000.

Thirdly - do you have hobbies? Those are important. No admissions committee is going to say "wow, this person should get in because they're a rockstar," but, they will say, "okay, this person isn't a study robot. They have a life and they can juggle it in addition to their studies."

There IS enough time to get LORs if you act now. Start going to professors' office hours. If you want a good letter, they have to get to know you.

Those are my biggest questions on an initial review of what you've said.

Now, for your other questions:
1) Re-taking a class isn't so much of an issue if you improved significantly. Everybody makes mistakes. They want to see how you've grown, and they want to know that you're hardworking, smart, and mature enough to survive medical school.

2) The Humane Society isn't bad. Again, however, you need to show that you've seen the medical field. If you can't do both, you'll have to give up time at the Humane Society.

3) Not sure

4) Uh, you should definitely note in some way that your volunteering at ELI hasn't been continuous. If you try to imply that you've been there for 5 years straight, that's a lie. If you lie and get caught, you're done. If you don't get caught, you get to deal with the fact that you lied to try and get into medical school. I wouldn't do it. Seems like a lose-lose situation, but I'm stickler for these things.

5) A year abroad for study doesn't count as an EC in my eyes. It does show that you might have gotten a rudimentary awareness of the world to me, but not that much else.

Finally - I'm not sure how difficult it will be to get into a newer school.

Good luck!

how are you barely getting interviews?your gpa for DO schools is slightly below the average of a 3.4-3.5 however you blew your MCAT away. I would assume there is something else wrong with your application ie. applied late or have one bad LOR somewhere in there cause you should have had a good amount of interviews IMO. most people with your stats get in somewhere. u shouldnt be worried...GL

 

[beckhunter116]

Is there any exact format for listing ECs? Could I write something like: 200 hours ELI volunteer, Freshman and Senior year....or would I have to put these on two seperate liness unless I write Fresh-Senior or 2006-2010 or whatever the format is? I hate to use two lines for the same thing, but I guess I should have an idea of the strictness of the format before I'll know for sure how to write it.

On AACOMAS there is no limit to the number of entries you can put in. That is different in AMCAS, there is a limit, but I'm not sure what it is. You put in the title of the activity, the dates it was done, and the hours per week. After that there is an area to describe the activity, you get like 750 characters to put in that space.

I would break that one entry up into two. If you could question if it is unethical or shady now then you should break it up.

Also, just FYI most DO schools don't have scholarships (or very many). A new school especially, because they haven't had the time to have gathered endowments and other donations. Good luck!

 

[marke]

what's ur MCAT score???
tho it's a new campus, it's still part of western, which is one of the toughest DO school to get in. But on the same token, I would trust this new school just because it's part of western.
If u have a strong MCAT, the rest of ur app looks good.
but don't just apply to one school! apply to multiple one and apply early!
GOOD LUCK!

 

[tuffguy13]

Well, first off, you need a strong MCAT. With your stats, I'd say 30+, but shoot as high as you can. I have a 3.38cgpa, 3.17sgpa from a competitive school, but even with a 35S I'm barely getting interviews.

May I ask where you are applying that a 35S and that GPA which doesnt appear too bad is barely getting you interviews?

 

[Cheshyre]

how are you barely getting interviews?your gpa for DO schools is slightly below the average of a 3.4-3.5 however you blew your MCAT away. I would assume there is something else wrong with your application ie. applied late or have one bad LOR somewhere in there cause you should have had a good amount of interviews IMO. most people with your stats get in somewhere. u shouldnt be worried...GL

I really only found out about DO right after I started doing MD secondaries. After doing research on it for a week or so (including raiding my school's library for DO related literature), I decided that I wanted to go DO instead. In any case, at this point in my life I'm only interested in primary care, EM, or general surg. So, I scrambled to get the DO stuff out and really didn't start getting DO complete notices until ~Dec. 17th.

I also have two C+'s in my science courses because I made mistakes. Chalk it up to immaturity.

Yes, I'm an idiot, especially since I have a DO as a doc and shadowed a DO as well. It never crossed my mind to ask about it.

I hope I don't have a bad LOR. That would make me crazy if I ever found out about one.

 

[ladyoflucky13]

Thanks, everyone, for all of your responses! 🙂