DO: the underdog

[oxytiger]

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ive been reading this closed thread below, and how an individual keeps on trolling/belittling osteopathy and its doctors.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=901303

most of the threads on md vs do always seems to have a reoccurring theme of osteopathic doctors being underdogs. i feel this is true among people who don't have a clue about osteopathy or feel that DO's aren't cut out of the same cloth as MDs. I'm in no way starting a md vs do thread as ive read and know the differences but i'll like to chime in my thoughts (if i came off as doing so by the end of my post...then shut this down! sorry!).

Ive been an underdog my entire life who has been proving people wrong with hard work and determination... and I am pursuing a career in medicine. This stigma that's prevalent in these threads and how these trolls keep on degrading DOs, makes me more inclined to pursue the DO letters after my name. Is it wrong for me to say that I want to become a DO just to prove people wrong that it doesn't matter what letters come after my name...and all i want to do is to get into a program and become the best doctor i can be and heal patients and even save their lives!?

Although I know where you do your residency factors in a lot of how much you get to experience and learn from those varying situations, it depends on the individual to become a really good/dedicated doctor and the best one can be. If one is passionate enough about his/her patients...then all the more power to the patients and that doctor.

that is my response to these trolls and anyone can feel free to chime in on my views, whether you agree or not...or whether I made a complete fool out of myself lolz!

to all the "underdogs" and MD/DO doctors....let's be the best physicians we can be!!!

 

[ManBroDude]

I don't think you truly understand what the real differences between DO and MD are based on what you wrote

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Riveting tale, chap. Seriously though, that's cool and all, but this thread is rather pointless.

 

[crmellon]

This sort of reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaIvk1cSyG8

 

[572776]

ive been reading this closed thread below, and how an individual keeps on trolling/belittling osteopathy and its doctors.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=901303

most of the threads on md vs do always seems to have a reoccurring theme of osteopathic doctors being underdogs. i feel this is true among people who don't have a clue about osteopathy or feel that DO's aren't cut out of the same cloth as MDs. I'm in no way starting a md vs do thread as ive read and know the differences but i'll like to chime in my thoughts (if i came off as doing so by the end of my post...then shut this down! sorry!).

Ive been an underdog my entire life who has been proving people wrong with hard work and determination... and I am pursuing a career in medicine. This stigma that's prevalent in these threads and how these trolls keep on degrading DOs, makes me more inclined to pursue the DO letters after my name. Is it wrong for me to say that I want to become a DO just to prove people wrong that it doesn't matter what letters come after my name...and all i want to do is to get into a program and become the best doctor i can be and heal patients and even save their lives!?

Although I know where you do your residency factors in a lot of how much you get to experience and learn from those varying situations, it depends on the individual to become a really good/dedicated doctor and the best one can be. If one is passionate enough about his/her patients...then all the more power to the patients and that doctor.

that is my response to these trolls and anyone can feel free to chime in on my views, whether you agree or not...or whether I made a complete fool out of myself lolz!

to all the "underdogs" and MD/DO doctors....let's be the best physicians we can be!!!

👍

 

[ruiner]

This sort of reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaIvk1cSyG8

my mind immediately went there as well

 

[crmellon]

my mind immediately went there as well

It's like he grew up and decided to be a physician.

 

[oxytiger]

alright definitely made a fool out of myself.

goodbye!

 

[crmellon]

alright definitely made a fool out of myself.

goodbye!

I wasn't trying to be mean. It was a nice sentiment, really.

 

[costales]

Meh, we're in the internets - full of sneaky trolls and douchebags with their tiresome routine and boring refrains. Don't waste your time talking to them. Just alert them to the mods.

 

[shamwowzer]

ive been reading this closed thread below, and how an individual keeps on trolling/belittling osteopathy and its doctors.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=901303

most of the threads on md vs do always seems to have a reoccurring theme of osteopathic doctors being underdogs. i feel this is true among people who don't have a clue about osteopathy or feel that DO's aren't cut out of the same cloth as MDs. I'm in no way starting a md vs do thread as ive read and know the differences but i'll like to chime in my thoughts (if i came off as doing so by the end of my post...then shut this down! sorry!).

Ive been an underdog my entire life who has been proving people wrong with hard work and determination... and I am pursuing a career in medicine. This stigma that's prevalent in these threads and how these trolls keep on degrading DOs, makes me more inclined to pursue the DO letters after my name. Is it wrong for me to say that I want to become a DO just to prove people wrong that it doesn't matter what letters come after my name...and all i want to do is to get into a program and become the best doctor i can be and heal patients and even save their lives!?

Although I know where you do your residency factors in a lot of how much you get to experience and learn from those varying situations, it depends on the individual to become a really good/dedicated doctor and the best one can be. If one is passionate enough about his/her patients...then all the more power to the patients and that doctor.

that is my response to these trolls and anyone can feel free to chime in on my views, whether you agree or not...or whether I made a complete fool out of myself lolz!

to all the "underdogs" and MD/DO doctors....let's be the best physicians we can be!!!

Seems like you need to be careful not to have a "little man" type syndrome later on in your career. Honestly, the people of SDN do not make up a good sampling of people to judge whether MD/DOs are equivalent or not. Trying to compensate because of comments made on an online forum will make you look like a tool in real situations.

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[msmitra]

It doesn't matter if you have DO or MD at the end of your name. How you practice and how you care for your patients is what really matters. I personally believe that there is something to OMM I have gotten it and experienced that it can be helpful. I have seen others get it and it has helped them too.

If there is a possibility to help patients through OMM why wouldn't you choose a program that also teaches this if you are really trying to help/heal people? I think it is just another tool you can use to treat patients that MDs don't know. What really matters is where you do your residency, your personality and how you choose to practice medicine afterwards. That is what will define you NOT whether you have an MD or DO title.

 

[Temperature101]

ive been reading this closed thread below, and how an individual keeps on trolling/belittling osteopathy and its doctors.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=901303

most of the threads on md vs do always seems to have a reoccurring theme of osteopathic doctors being underdogs. i feel this is true among people who don't have a clue about osteopathy or feel that DO's aren't cut out of the same cloth as MDs. I'm in no way starting a md vs do thread as ive read and know the differences but i'll like to chime in my thoughts (if i came off as doing so by the end of my post...then shut this down! sorry!).

Ive been an underdog my entire life who has been proving people wrong with hard work and determination... and I am pursuing a career in medicine. This stigma that's prevalent in these threads and how these trolls keep on degrading DOs, makes me more inclined to pursue the DO letters after my name. Is it wrong for me to say that I want to become a DO just to prove people wrong that it doesn't matter what letters come after my name...and all i want to do is to get into a program and become the best doctor i can be and heal patients and even save their lives!?

Although I know where you do your residency factors in a lot of how much you get to experience and learn from those varying situations, it depends on the individual to become a really good/dedicated doctor and the best one can be. If one is passionate enough about his/her patients...then all the more power to the patients and that doctor.

that is my response to these trolls and anyone can feel free to chime in on my views, whether you agree or not...or whether I made a complete fool out of myself lolz!

to all the "underdogs" and MD/DO doctors....let's be the best physicians we can be!!!

That is so profound....

 

[avabio]

I know a lot of DOs and MDs might disagree with this statement but in 2012 the differences between DOs and MDs are almost nonexistent. The holistic philosophy has been adopted in some form by the vast majority if not all MD schools. OMM is being taught as an elective in some MD schools while at some DO schools the emphasis on OMM has been almost reduced to nothing 🙁. DO schools have traditionally been behind MD schools in terms of research, but they are catching up. In the end if you shouldn't be so concerned with two letters that follow your name!

 

[TriagePreMed]

lol The same premeds that want to push the "DOs are inferior" are the ones that rarely make it into any medical school or get their **** handed to them eventually in the real world. I've never heard of someone that's had to pay their bills and lived a real life try to put down other people the way some of these pampered, obnoxious, premeds do. It's only a matter of time until they hit their teeth against the curve. Most adults know that life is complex and you can't point to one factor and assume absolute superiority.

 

[shamwowzer]

lol The same premeds that want to push the "DOs are inferior" are the ones that rarely make it into any medical school or get their **** handed to them eventually in the real world. I've never heard of someone that's had to pay their bills and lived a real life try to put down other people the way some of these pampered, obnoxious, premeds do. It's only a matter of time until they hit their teeth against the curve. Most adults know that life is complex and you can't point to one factor and assume absolute superiority.

This is good stuff triage. 👍

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[stdinz]

lol The same premeds that want to push the "DOs are inferior" are the ones that rarely make it into any medical school or get their **** handed to them eventually in the real world. I've never heard of someone that's had to pay their bills and lived a real life try to put down other people the way some of these pampered, obnoxious, premeds do. It's only a matter of time until they hit their teeth against the curve. Most adults know that life is complex and you can't point to one factor and assume absolute superiority.

Leave those premeds alone! There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a degree that you can put on your license plates --- to impress fifteen year olds and fast food staff.

 

[impervious0ne]

Not another DO/MD thread again... You'd think people would actually try to read previous posts or learn to use the search function.

Ive been an underdog my entire life who has been proving people wrong with hard work and determination... and I am pursuing a career in medicine..

🙄

 

[GimpGenius]

Ive been an underdog my entire life who has been proving people wrong with hard work and determination... and I am pursuing a career in medicine.

Frankly, if you have the capability to get on the Internet at-will, and your hardest decision involves what medical schools you want to apply to, you are not an underdog. Good luck with applying, though.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

lol The same premeds that want to push the "DOs are inferior" are the ones that rarely make it into any medical school or get their **** handed to them eventually in the real world. I've never heard of someone that's had to pay their bills and lived a real life try to put down other people the way some of these pampered, obnoxious, premeds do. It's only a matter of time until they hit their teeth against the curve. Most adults know that life is complex and you can't point to one factor and assume absolute superiority.

Eh... You mad.

 

[Iliketoytles]

this sort of reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaivk1csyg8

LOl

 

[MedPR]

lol The same premeds that want to push the "DOs are inferior" are the ones that rarely make it into any medical school or get their **** handed to them eventually in the real world. I've never heard of someone that's had to pay their bills and lived a real life try to put down other people the way some of these pampered, obnoxious, premeds do. It's only a matter of time until they hit their teeth against the curve. Most adults know that life is complex and you can't point to one factor and assume absolute superiority.

Good stuff. I know 2 or 3 guys from undergrad who have no chance at MD, but could get into DO and refuse to do it because osteopathic is beneath them.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Good stuff. I know 2 or 3 guys from undergrad who have no chance at MD, but could get into DO and refuse to do it because osteopathic is beneath them.

This is SOOOO awesome. They are flipping burgers at $8/hr and my DO degree nets me well over 6 figs. Gotta love it.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Good stuff. I know 2 or 3 guys from undergrad who have no chance at MD, but could get into DO and refuse to do it because osteopathic is beneath them.

I don't understand how D.O. can be beneath anyone. You get the exact same training and license, and if you do an AGME residency, you can pretty much argue you're indistinguishable from an M.D.. Besides, if you can't make it into M.D. school, how can you consider the only option you have based on your capacity to be beneath you? I guess to some degree I "get it" because kids in High School try to out-impress everyone by what college they get into, but after college, you should realize the world doesn't work like that.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I don't understand how D.O. can be beneath anyone. You get the exact same training and license, and if you do an AGME residency, you can pretty much argue you're indistinguishable from an M.D.. Besides, if you can't make it into M.D. school, how can you consider the only option you have based on your capacity to be beneath you? I guess to some degree I "get it" because kids in High School try to out-impress everyone by what college they get into, but after college, you should realize the world doesn't work like that.

Some people want a MD, It's not our place to judge them.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Some people want a MD, It's not our place to judge them.

Why not? Because you say so? If they don't want to be judged, they should abstain from judging D.O.. People that are going to put down D.O. should be criticized. If they want MD for another reason (family, country of practice, etc.), could be excuse, but that's not the case with most of these people.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Why not? Because you say so? If they don't want to be judged, they should abstain from judging D.O.. People that are going to put down D.O. should be criticized. If they want MD for another reason (family, country of practice, etc.), could be excuse, but that's not the case with most of these people.

I think this is one of those parts of Christianity that I agree with, don't judge others as you haven't walked a day in their shoes.

 

[donkeykong1]

Some people want a MD, It's not our place to judge them.

😕

 

[Bisbee]

I think this is one of those parts of Christianity that I agree with, don't judge others as you haven't walked a day in their shoes.

Christianity?! Meh. Anyway, I'm sure each person has his/her own reason why they'd rather be an M.D. vs. D.O. (or vice versa). Certainly, as pre-meds, we like to understand and discuss the various reasons and see how they may pertain to our own individual situations. Life is about judging what is best, and this is how we learn. Let's not just refrain from doing something just because some ancient book tells us not to. We can "try on" the shoes of another to see how they fit (i.e. listen to their reason) and either accept them or reject them according to our own needs and wants.

 

[donkeykong1]

In my eyes someone who chooses to sit a year and shoot for MD, despite being accepted or having a chance at a DO is more interested in the initials following his/her name rather than actually becoming a Physician.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

In my eyes someone who chooses to sit a year and shoot for MD, despite being accepted or having a chance at a DO is more interested in the initials following his/her name rather than actually becoming a Physician.

Well, I'm not going to doubt that maybe they are petty, I just honestly don't think it is my place to really give two flying damns about what they do with their life as long as it is not damaging. Either way as mentioned there are also a few realistic reasons for why people may opt for sitting out a year and not shooting for DO. I for example could probably be attending a DO school after my senior year as long as I do above the 50th percentile on the Mcat at the latest in June/early July, but instead I'm going to spend my entire summer studying and take a gap year for the mcat as opposed to just spending a month or two while in school. Sure I'm going to spend/waste/ develop for an extra year instead of going to a DO school directly, but I'm more than willing to spend sometime to maximize my chances and potentially go to a MD school. Not to mention I'm also sure having the chance to take a few upper level physiology and micro courses ( And A few Culture/history courses) will be useful for transitioning to medical school.
But point being is that we shouldn't judge other peoples actions because we really don't understand what is driving them. After you do, go right ahead. Excuse me while I start looking into some psychiatry residency programs....

 

[donkeykong1]

Well, I'm not going to doubt that maybe they are petty, I just honestly don't think it is my place to really give two flying damns about what they do with their life as long as it is not damaging. Either way as mentioned there are also a few realistic reasons for why people may opt for sitting out a year and not shooting for DO. I for example could probably be attending a DO school after my senior year as long as I do above the 50th percentile on the Mcat at the latest in June/early July, but instead I'm going to spend my entire summer studying and take a gap year for the mcat as opposed to just spending a month or two while in school. Sure I'm going to spend/waste/ develop for an extra year instead of going to a DO school directly, but I'm more than willing to spend sometime to maximize my chances and potentially go to a MD school. Not to mention I'm also sure having the chance to take a few upper level physiology and micro courses ( And A few Culture/history courses) will be useful for transitioning to medical school.
But point being is that we shouldn't judge other peoples actions because we really don't understand what is driving them. After you do, go right ahead. Excuse me while I start looking into some psychiatry residency programs....

i was in the same situation last year that you're in right now. just studied for the MCATs alongside pre-reqs got in senior year to MD and DO, and chose DO. no gap year needed. its your choice bud, sounds like you already made up your mind. gl with your decision and don't look back.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Well, I'm not going to doubt that maybe they are petty, I just honestly don't think it is my place to really give two flying damns about what they do with their life as long as it is not damaging. Either way as mentioned there are also a few realistic reasons for why people may opt for sitting out a year and not shooting for DO. I for example could probably be attending a DO school after my senior year as long as I do above the 50th percentile on the Mcat at the latest in June/early July, but instead I'm going to spend my entire summer studying and take a gap year for the mcat as opposed to just spending a month or two while in school. Sure I'm going to spend/waste/ develop for an extra year instead of going to a DO school directly, but I'm more than willing to spend sometime to maximize my chances and potentially go to a MD school. Not to mention I'm also sure having the chance to take a few upper level physiology and micro courses ( And A few Culture/history courses) will be useful for transitioning to medical school.
But point being is that we shouldn't judge other peoples actions because we really don't understand what is driving them. After you do, go right ahead. Excuse me while I start looking into some psychiatry residency programs....

So it comes out. By no place to judge you meant you were the one wanting to sit out a year for M.D.. It's cool. No problem, but you should definitely not waste you're time applying to D.O. when you apply to M.D. since that's your real desire.

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

i was in the same situation last year that you're in right now. just studied for the MCATs alongside pre-reqs got in senior year to MD and DO, and chose DO. no gap year needed. its your choice bud, sounds like you already made up your mind. gl with your decision and don't look back.

Well, honestly I'm at school 9-5 most days thanks to clubs, ecs, etc, I don't need the extra stress of doing Mcat prep on top of that. I'll happily take a gap year, reduce my stress level, and become a better applicant for DO and MD.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

So it comes out. By no place to judge you meant you were the one wanting to sit out a year for M.D.. It's cool. No problem, but you should definitely not waste you're time applying to D.O. when you apply to M.D. since that's your real desire.

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Wow, you're one vindictive piece of work. I gave a personal example to explain why you shouldn't judge another persons decisions, because you likely do not know the entire story that is driving their decision. Regardless, judge me all you want, I'm not going to lecture to you about ethics.

 

[GimpGenius]

Eh.. there's nothing wrong with taking time and making sure you do yourself justice in the application cycle. I applied on both sides (MD and DO), and the DO schools were a better fit for me for multiple reasons. To each his/her own, but discounting either path--and not preparing for both--doesn't seem like a wise idea in my mind.

The more important question for Serenade is this: Do you give at least one flying damn? 😛

 

[user3]

maybe if more DO schools were opened at major public universities instead of private freestanding, and no-name private liberal arts schools, there would be more awareness of the degree. Among the schools that have opened post-LECOM (early 90's), there was not one public DO school or any DO school affiliated with a recognizable undergrad. The difference in research activity between DO and MD over the years is also an issue, as it has allowed the latter to receive more support/funding for the schools and students and for the degree's prestige to grow. After MSUCOM was founded in 1969, all of the new DO schools should have been situated at similar institutions and existing ones merged with such-- at large public research universities with MD programs. Sure, those probably have larger start-up costs than tuition-driven private schools, but it is well worth it. The profession would be in a very different place today if that had been done. Poor stewardship of the profession, at least in that respect.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Why not? Because you say so? If they don't want to be judged, they should abstain from judging D.O.. People that are going to put down D.O. should be criticized. If they want MD for another reason (family, country of practice, etc.), could be excuse, but that's not the case with most of these people.

In my eyes someone who chooses to sit a year and shoot for MD, despite being accepted or having a chance at a DO is more interested in the initials following his/her name rather than actually becoming a Physician.

Were the options for post-medical school training and job opportunities the exact same for MDs and DOs you two would have a point. But, they're not and for many people who want to do something competitive, be an academic physician or just want the best options for residency, that extra year makes all the difference. I know I would have had no shot at the residency I matched to had I not taken a year to get my **** in line.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Wow, you're one vindictive piece of work. I gave a personal example to explain why you shouldn't judge another persons decisions, because you likely do not know the entire story that is driving their decision. Regardless, judge me all you want, I'm not going to lecture to you about ethics.

Not judging. It's your life, but I think you shouldn't have appeared impartial when you had a dog in the race.

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[TriagePreMed]

Were the options for post-medical school training and job opportunities the exact same for MDs and DOs you two would have a point. But, they're not and for many people who want to do something competitive, be an academic physician or just want the best options for residency, that extra year makes all the difference. I know I would have had no shot at the residency I matched to had I not taken a year to get my **** in line.

A reason like this is fair, to a degree, but I find that most people aren't doing it because they want to be academics or practice in certain international places. They simply want an M.D. After their name. Some could argue it's easier to become a dermatologist as a D.O. as your competition doesn't include as many high scorers since the beginning.

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[SpecterGT260]

In my eyes someone who chooses to sit a year and shoot for MD, despite being accepted or having a chance at a DO is more interested in the initials following his/her name rather than actually becoming a Physician.

The implicaiton here is that anyone going MD couldnt be interested in being a physician. 🙄. There are a lot of ways to cut this cake.... It is a little ridiculous to attempt to inversely correlate desire with competitiveness....

 

[SpecterGT260]

A reason like this is fair, to a degree, but I find that most people aren't doing it because they want to be academics or practice in certain international places. They simply want an M.D. After their name. Some could argue it's easier to become a dermatologist as a D.O. as your competition doesn't include as many high scorers since the beginning.

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I don't see this as a positive argument for your side.... I also don't think you have the authority to make the claim that most people just want an MD for its namesake

 

[crmellon]

Why don't we just let people pursue the degree they want, for the reasons they want, and worry about our own education? Radical, I know; but, if someone has their heart set on MD and thinks "DO is beneath them" that's their prerogative. Who cares.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I don't see this as a positive argument for your side.... I also don't think you have the authority to make the claim that most people just want an MD for its namesake

He doesn't, but it helps rationalize his decisions.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Not judging. It's your life, but I think you shouldn't have appeared impartial when you had a dog in the race.

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. . . And yet you continue to prove my point. You haven't walked in my shoes, who are you to say anything?

 

[SpecterGT260]

A reason like this is fair, to a degree, but I find that most people aren't doing it because they want to be academics or practice in certain international places. They simply want an M.D. After their name. Some could argue it's easier to become a dermatologist as a D.O. as your competition doesn't include as many high scorers since the beginning.

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I'm just going to go ahead and requote this.....

There is another implication here that I would be pretty good and embarrassed to have associated with me...

Since when is wanting MD behind your name a bad thing? Since when was medicine about shooting for the middle? I am not saying that DOs are destined to become mediocre, but why exactly are you demonizing personal drive to succeed and excel? For physicians, with the role we play in people's lives and responsibilities it holds, "because it is easy" is quite possibly the WORST rationale I have ever heard.

 

[MrNovember]

These threads almost always have the same theme. Some degree of talking down the DO path and defending it. Or vice versa. Look at this from a perspective outside of SDN-gunnerland. We are going to be doctors (possibly minus the arrogant/rigid few who limit their options due to their unwillingness to explore both pathways).

What these kind of debates usually end up looking like is someone arguing why they are a far superior student because they got a 99 on an exam while another student got a 97.

This thread should be closed.

 

[TriagePreMed]

. . . And yet you continue to prove my point. You haven't walked in my shoes, who are you to say anything?

Walk me through your shoes. Why do you want an MD sitting out a year if necessary?

 

[TriagePreMed]

I'm just going to go ahead and requote this.....

There is another implication here that I would be pretty good and embarrassed to have associated with me...

Since when is wanting MD behind your name a bad thing? Since when was medicine about shooting for the middle? I am not saying that DOs are destined to become mediocre, but why exactly are you demonizing personal drive to succeed and excel? For physicians, with the role we play in people's lives and responsibilities it holds, "because it is easy" is quite possibly the WORST rationale I have ever heard.

This is you: "I don't mean to say DO's are inferior... they just are... no offense"

Quote away, buddy.

You missed the point of the conversation. It's not why you should pick DO over MD, or that it's bad to have an MD. Don't twist my words. It's why some people leave DO behind as an option in the face of obtaining an identical degree just for sake of the letters. Some people can have legitimate reasons for MD. I'm saying that the majority of people I see not going for DO when they can't get into MD is mainly because of some false sense that DO is inferior.

 

[SpecterGT260]

This is you: "I don't mean to say DO's are inferior... they just are... no offense"

Quote away, buddy.

You missed the point of the conversation. It's not why you should pick DO over MD, or that it's bad to have an MD. Don't twist my words. It's why some people leave DO behind as an option in the face of obtaining an identical degree just for sake of the letters. Some people can have legitimate reasons for MD. I'm saying that the majority of people I see not going for DO when they can't get into MD is mainly because of some false sense that DO is inferior.

😕 Interesting........

I still think you have a highly suspect sample size for the part that I underlined....