Do they really check your ecs?

[simbalimba]

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I was talking to a friend of mine who is applying for fall 08 and he told me that he had exaggerated on his extracurriculars, (put twice as many hospital volunteer hours as he actually did, a few small things that are hard to check such as volunteer sunday school teaching, and also doubled the time he did research in a lab). I was going to tell him that he will get caught but I wasn't sure how meticulous schools/amcas is about checking this stuff, so I wanted to ask if anyone knew how in depth schools/amcas check into the information students put on their applications, specifically extracurriculars?

 

[ca863335]

No, they probably won't check on all EC's. However, you should tell your "friend" that lying on the AMCAS is a really sh*tty thing to do. There are thousands of applicants trying very hard to be accepted to medical school, and people like your "friend" can hurt a lot of people.

 

[dd128]

Trying to see how much you can "embellish" yourself??

The truth is they don't really check much of anything. I suppose things like exaggerating volunteer hours and the like no one would really know, but when the interview comes around you better be able to keep your story straight, as if lies are caught down the line you'd have your admission revoked and probably be reported to amcas.

 

[etf]

it all works itself out in the end.

 

[45408]

A friend of yours, huh? Funny how it's always a friend of an SDNer who does something ethically questionable.


Sometimes they check your ECs, other times they don't. If he claims to have spent twice as much time in the lab as he did, they might wonder why he had so few results.

 

[UFGatorMed]

It's not that big of a deal to say you had 150 service hours rather than 250. Both are a lot of hours and both show that you are interested in helping other people. Both also show that you have had a lot of clinical experience.

The same is with research.

Chances are that it won't give him that much of an edge... Especially because most people know that when you are volunteering you really aren't seeing THAT much, and you aren't really doing THAT much in the first place... Unless you volunteer in the O.R. which I would highly recommend (just becuase its cool and you get to where doctor clothes - and you get to pretend you are a character in scrubs. Which is why we all want to be docors in the first place).

It probably won't help him that much... Either way your friend is being a douche.

 

[coldweatherblue]

it all works itself out in the end.

x2. Make a habit of being honest now and it'll help you out in the long run.

The truth is that there is a bunch of stuff you can get away with in everyday life, but imo the damage it does to your decision-making and the way you approach problems (ie, looking for the "easy way out") makes it a future liability.

 

[Chargers]

That person should think twice about being a doctor. what would the patients think of an dishonest doctor? BTW can they take away the diploma after he graduated from med school? please say yes, please say yes,

 

[RySerr21]

That person should think twice about being a doctor. what would the patients think of an dishonest doctor? BTW can they take away the diploma after he graduated from med school? please say yes, please say yes,

lets try and estimate how many dishonest people there are in this world.... anybody?

just b/c you are doctor doesn't give you special circumstances. there will forever be dishonest people doing things for the wrong reasons in every situation and in every career.

 

[Maxprime]

The EC cops probably won't be by any time soon - relax. Resumes/apps/etc. are all exaggerated - "assisting with research" is the same thing as "cleaning $hit up" because everyone knows it is.

That being said, you shouldn't open yourself up to a risk over something people probably don't care about. Nobody thinks that the extra 1,000 hours are where you really discover your true passion for medicine.

 

[Doctorverardoll]

They probably do not have the time to check out the ECs. 3 of my five LORs were in some way related to my ECs (prof who I did research under, supervisor @ clinical research job and the adviser to a few of my student groups).

I think it makes a stronger application to have things corroborate. Also, if you lie/exaggerate.. that's a lot to keep up with during an interview.

 

[Maxprime]

That person should think twice about being a doctor. what would the patients think of an dishonest doctor? BTW can they take away the diploma after he graduated from med school? please say yes, please say yes,

Call me when reality runs you over like a Mack truck. If you haven't seen a physician lie to a patient (don't get me wrong - for their own good) then you need to pay attention better.

"We're going to need blood and urine samples."
"What for?"
"Check your glucose level, that could have contributed to the crash."
(whisper to nurse: get a tox screen & BAC)

 

[Maxprime]

FYI, there was an article in either the WSJ or NYTimes about how Ivys are starting to fact check ECs for people applying to undergrad. Pick something worth lying about - like whether or not you would spend your life as an FP in bumsville, Idaho.

 

[tdsbird2]

if it matter they would check, but details on ECs are just tie breakers (i believe) I have an ok mcat score, lower gpa but every EC that is recommended and am re-applying and still barely getting interview offers...but if your EC story doesnt match a Letter of Rec's story you will be SCREWED!

 

[TheMemoirist]

I was talking to a friend of mine who is applying for fall 08 and he told me that he had exaggerated on his extracurriculars, (put twice as many hospital volunteer hours as he actually did, a few small things that are hard to check such as volunteer sunday school teaching, and also doubled the time he did research in a lab). I was going to tell him that he will get caught but I wasn't sure how meticulous schools/amcas is about checking this stuff, so I wanted to ask if anyone knew how in depth schools/amcas check into the information students put on their applications, specifically extracurriculars?

👎thumbdown👎
Why stop there? Why don't you just tell your friend to put down that he won a Nobel prize or something. That should really get the adcom's attention. That should ensure that he is seen as a competitive applicant.

Seriously?

BAD IDEA! Don't (let your friend) do this. It may seem like a harmless little white lie, but why risk it? I've heard a story or two about adcoms checking the references in AMCAS, and while it is rare, it's just not worth the risk. If your friend gets caught, regardless of how good his GPA & MCAT are, his app is going STRAIGHT to the reject pile. Why not just report the honest numbers? I don't think doubling EC time is going to give enough boost to the application to warrant the risk involved, aside from the fact that it's morally and ethically wrong.

 

[etf]

Chances are that it won't give him that much of an edge...

precisely. anything that you could easily lie about (# of volunteer hours, "sunday school" teaching that you never did, etc.) is not going to impress anyone anyway. it's a lot like selling naked call options - your potential upside is limited to the relatively small premium you receive, but your potential downside is infinite.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

No, they don't really check your ECs normally, but lying here is just not a good idea for the reasons listed above.

 

[Wylde]

I always kind of wondered how they went about checking ECs. because when you volunteer somewhere it doesn't really get reported all the time, does it?

 

[JackDanielMD]

Probably won't get caught. But, in the off chance they do check, you will NEVER be a doctor. Your name will be mud. They will never take another application from you seriously again.

 

[Lawliet2008]

why risk it? like everyone else said, it won't really add to your (I'm sorry, your "friend's") appplication.

The risk/benefit ratio is really not worth it.

 

[jamesrick80]

In my opinion, EC's are too easy to get, why cheat the system.

 

[Lawliet2008]

In my opinion, EC's are too easy to get, why cheat the system.

It depends where you live. In some schools, like mine, it is next to impossible to find any research position and are themselves as competitive as med school.

 

[lord_jeebus]

precisely. anything that you could easily lie about (# of volunteer hours, "sunday school" teaching that you never did, etc.) is not going to impress anyone anyway. it's a lot like selling naked call options - your potential upside is limited to the relatively small premium you receive, but your potential downside is infinite.

Bingo.

If I'm reading about someone's volunteer experience, I'm more interested in what they did (particularly regarding initiative and leadership) than whether it was 150 or 250 hours. 1000-2000 hours vs. 100-200 hours makes an impression, but that kind of exaggeration is probably too risky for people to fake.

I don't think sunday school teaching ever made a difference between an acceptance and a rejection.

 

[QMeister]

Remember that if there is anything in your application that is incorrect or you left certain information out, (knowingly), they can retract acceptances that they give you. Also, the world of ADCOMs are pretty small. They WILL pass the word around to other schools.

All in all..like everyone has said..it's not worth it for a few more hours etc...

 

[dd128]

I always kind of wondered how they went about checking ECs. because when you volunteer somewhere it doesn't really get reported all the time, does it?

No it doesn't. I've got a crap load of volunteer hours I did with the humane society and habitat for humanity that I never got documented. I would have felt like a douche going up to the guy in charge at the end of the day with my little piece of paper asking, "could you please sign this so I have proof I helped people here."

 

[dd128]

Bingo.

If I'm reading about someone's volunteer experience, I'm more interested in what they did (particularly regarding initiative and leadership) than whether it was 150 or 250 hours. 1000-2000 hours vs. 100-200 hours makes an impression, but that kind of exaggeration is probably too risky for people to fake.

Yeah, I've never had an interviewer ask me, "what were you total number of volunteer hours?" They just want to know what it was I did.

 

[Chargers]

Call me when reality runs you over like a Mack truck. If you haven't seen a physician lie to a patient (don't get me wrong - for their own good) then you need to pay attention better.

"We're going to need blood and urine samples."
"What for?"
"Check your glucose level, that could have contributed to the crash."
(whisper to nurse: get a tox screen & BAC)

I said that in term of the patients knowing that their doctor is a dishonest person. They would freak and seek other doctors help instead. If they don't know, then there is nothing to talk about.
And yes I have been run over and flatten by reality in the past.🙂

 

[Chargers]

lets try and estimate how many dishonest people there are in this world.... anybody?

just b/c you are doctor doesn't give you special circumstances. there will forever be dishonest people doing things for the wrong reasons in every situation and in every career.

see my reply above. I guess I'm a dreamer🙂

 

[UVAbme2009]

This is no different than people who lie about when they've volunteered at UVA. The kidney center program went from 18 to 12 volunteers after last semester, and I swear at least half of those 12 didn't even do 20 hours. It's a shame because in the end it's the patients who are suffering.

 

[coralfangs]

I think the interviewers can tell (hell even I can tell when I'm interviewing for new lab tech or new volunteer) (and I think sometimes the school match you to the interviewers who actually have some experience with whatever you mentioned that you've done)
ie. I volunteered for many MANY years at a local VA hospital (i put the hospital chaplain as contact person) and when two of the interviewers asked me about it, it turns out they also worked at a VA hospital before, so we had a good chat about the Vs.
ie. in 3/5 interviews I went, the interviewers were either amateur photographers or semi-pro photographers (I worked as a photographer b4), and they really knew the stuff and we had awesome chats about our experiences and the local photoshoot opportunities

was it coincidence? could be
but I doubt, DOUBT there are so many doctors/photographers

 

[paranoid_eyes]

NThere are thousands of applicants trying very hard to be accepted to medical school, and people like your "friend" can hurt a lot of people.

this is besides the point, because the whole process turns everyone selfish.

on a side note, lying will probably drive you crazy, because not only can they throw out your application before even accepting you, they may even be able to throw you out in the middle of med school 👎meanie:

 

[Isoprop]

bottom line

no benefit + huge risk = stupid idea

 

[littlealex]

I would think having too much volunteer hours is just suspicious.

"It says here that you volunteer around.... 30 hours a week?"

I slacked and only volunteered a few hours a week, but the things I did I did because I wanted to, and I think that helped me in the interviews quite a bit. They could see that I wasn't the stereotypical premed doing what is necessary to get into school.

 

[Mandek]

Bingo.

If I'm reading about someone's volunteer experience, I'm more interested in what they did (particularly regarding initiative and leadership) than whether it was 150 or 250 hours. 1000-2000 hours vs. 100-200 hours makes an impression, but that kind of exaggeration is probably too risky for people to fake.

I don't think sunday school teaching ever made a difference between an acceptance and a rejection.

I wonder if 1000-2000 hours vs 100-200 hours volunteering in ER ever makes a difference between an acceptance and a rejection (assuming that it is true).