DO to General Surgery, how difficult?
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If I remember correctly, there was a thread on the same topic a couple months back, and I believe the conclusion reached was that it's not that difficult to become a General Surgeon as a DO (with good grades, scores, etc., but that's a given MD or DO). The subspecialities are hard to get into as a DO, but Gen Surgery isn't too hard.
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My advice is limited and more of a collaboration of what I have been told... There are general surgery DO residencies, however not a lot so it is not possible for every person to match into... Therefore, your best bet is to take the USMLE and do very well. Therefore, you'll have the options of doing either a do residency or an allopathic residency. I've also heard that doing research helps. Anyway, DO's match into these kinds of programs all the time. It just takes some extra work.
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a very simple search for DO Match, would have answered that question for you! You can match for surgery for allopathic and osteopathic residencies. run the search and you can see how many people match into different programs each year from different DO schools.
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Come on, man. Searching is really hard... especially when you want to get some really "solid data" and it "concerns the rest of your life..." haha.
OP, these threads are posted all the time... case and point, there is a "can DO's do ortho" thread right below this one... I'm not going to sugar coat this, it is easier to do surgery as an MD than a DO. For example, if you don't even match as an MD there is a chance you could end up in a prelim-gsurg year or gsurg residency spot in the scramble, because they have unfilled spots most years. Yes, you can do gsurg as a DO, and if gsurg floats your boat PCOM is a good DO school for you to check out. There are other good programs out there as well, but PCOM comes up whenever gsurg questions do (a la search fcn 😉), because they offer their own gsurg residency program.
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Is it really more difficult to match any specialty as an MD than as a DO? When I see this posted I wonder if people are taking Osteopathic residencies into account. Is it still more difficult if one only applied to DO residencies, for instance? This doesn't seem true, unless someone is shooting only for Allopathic residencies.
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General surgery isn't a particularly difficult specialty to match into, period. I mean, it's not as easy as Family Practice, but it's no ortho/anesthesia/ophtho/plastics, either. It's not highly competitive, and there's no reason that a DO wouldn't be able to match, provided they had a decent board score, etc.
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I was under the impression that ACGME G-Surg was actually quite difficult to match as a DO. It seems like most spots granted to DOs are surgical internships that aren't guaranteed PGY 2-5 at the program after the first year. Seems like DOs match way better into things like ACGME gas. However, remember that there are AOA G-Surg residencies that are only available to DOs.
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You've got it mostly right, as far as I have picked up from the program directors I have heard talk on the subject. I would also add that multiple sources who have had experience working/training in both allopathic and osteopathic residencies feel that they had better, more hands on training in osteopathic programs on the whole. I have heard this from several physicians and program directors who all come from different perspectives.
Getting into general surgery is doable. It is not going to be 'easy' to match into, but it is no harder than if you were trying to do it as an MD student. The main thing that I keep hearing is that you have to show an active interest in the field, and impress the attendings/residents at the sites when you rotate there. The board scores, class rank, letters, etc.. are important, but from what I have picked up are largely secondary deciding factors (like if they were trying to choose between two applicants that they have seen work hard at their program and/or they know are a good fit). Get to know the residents, and put your name out there when the time comes - this seems to be a consistent message from PD's and residents across the board.
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Well the OP didn't specify that he wanted ACGME, so I assumed he'd be okay with AOA residencies. In which case, if he applied to both types of programs, he'd have a good chance of landing a spot.
I just get tired of reading "IT'S EASIER TO DO [insert specialty] AS AN MD, WHY MAKE IT HARDER FOR YOURSELF?!?!?!" over and over again. I like to be the nice one sometimes, believe it or not.
I think I've gotten way less patient with this kind of crap since med school started. haha
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Well the OP didn't specify that he wanted ACGME, so I assumed he'd be okay with AOA residencies. In which case, if he applied to both types of programs, he'd have a good chance of landing a spot.
I just get tired of reading "IT'S EASIER TO DO [insert specialty] AS AN MD, WHY MAKE IT HARDER FOR YOURSELF?!?!?!" over and over again. I like to be the nice one sometimes, believe it or not.
I think I've gotten way less patient with this kind of crap since med school started. haha
Haha ohhh patience.. it takes a lot of that. I still get questions like, can DO's prescribe medicine. ughhhh
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Well don't hold out on us here, CAN THEY???!!!?!?!
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no, just herbal remedies that we have to grow in our own backyards.
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im doing premed.and im little bit confused.i want to go for DO and then Gastroentrology,or anyother good fellowship.,like ortho. or anhesthesia..on the other hand Iwana do MHA after DO..i wana know which career have more job and more salary oppurtunity. and how much time its gonna take me to do fellowship in Gastro, after completing DO..if MHA have more salary and oppurtunity like they get paid as gastro..i wana quit pre med and do bacheors, im really confuse here...i wana know who is getting paid more MHA or DO+[fellowship in Gastro]..and how im gonna study if i choose for DO,id DO is good y do ppl study MD for 8 thn do fellowship, whr u can study for 7 yrs and get felowsip in ur interest, is it like Do are on downside becoz they lack year
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Wow, that was a mouthful. I think you've made several wrong assumptions in that, so I'll start from the top and explain the process. In the United States, people generally complete a university education in 4 years. After 4 years, they can apply to an MD or a DO school (if they meet all the prerequisites). Both MD and DO schools take 4 years to complete. "Premed" just means anyone who has not gone to medical school yet. After you are done with either medical school, you apply to residency. Residencies come in different specialties. You can be a resident in internal medicine, general surgery, urology, neurosurgery, anesthesia, etc. MD student can only apply to residency programs approved by the ACGME. DO's have the choice of applying to either ACGME or AOA programs. Despite having more choice, some people consider DO to be a less desirable degree because there are fewer surgical residency slots that are AOA than that are ACGME, and DO's sometimes get discriminated against when applying to ACGME programs (that's what this thread is about). After you finish your residency, you apply to fellowships linked to your residency specialty (for example, an internal medicine resident can apply to a cardiology fellowship, and a general surgery resident can apply to a surgical oncology fellowship). That's the American system in a nutshell.
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ok got that part and im bit happy now. but u dint ans my other part..can i do MASTERS IN HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATION. after DO...AND i WANT to KNOW the COMPARIOSON between PAY,salarieS OF MAster of HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATION,and DO WITH FELLOWSHIP in ANY SURGERY. who HAVE GOOD caREER, and SAlary!
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No offense, but that's all stuff you can find out on your own by doing some research.
A few points:
1) You can get a masters in whatever you want. Just because you have a professional degree doesn't mean you can't acquire a MHA/MPH/MS/etc. With that said, I don't know of any program that has a joint DO/MHA program, so you would have to get that either prior to getting your DO or after.
2) Look up the pay on your own. Google is a very useful tool.
3) There are many different kinds of surgical residencies/fellowships. Those different specialties have various rates of compensation. For example, a quick search on studentdoc.com shows that gen. surgeons average $291,000, ortho. surgeons average $459,000, vascular surgeons average $329,000, etc.
4) The definition of a "good career" can vary between people. Do some research, get some experience, and see what you like the best.
Good luck 👍
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I think it's kind of nearsighted to consider salary heavily when choosing your career. Example: cardiothoracic surgeons make serious $$$, but it's absolutely miserable work unless you have a taste for it. Complicated surgeries, endless nights on call etc. Unless you have a taste for it, you're going to be miserable, and no amount of money can fix that.
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Salaries also tend to fluctuate, and something that was making big bucks when you come out may find itself not was financially viable 10 years down the road.
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u may be tRUE.. but looking good, before u step, is a good idea, and salary does matter after 11 years of hard work..no matter how much u enjoy ur work, u have to act intelectually and wisely.thats how american system works, or u have no place in this competitive world.🙂. and thats not about ur status here , like premed or med, its about.ones life.
