DO urology

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
D

deleted554740

Who's applying DO urology this cycle!? I want to hear your experiences about rotating at other institutions.
Members don't see this ad.
 
A quick run down of what you should expect from someone who did the rounds 1-2 years ago. These are very roughly in the order of how much they impressed me (and generally everyone agrees on roughly this order)

PCOM/Einstein: They act like their **** don't stink. Except... it doesn't. They really are that good. You need to get past the attitude that some of them have (others are pure golden friendliness) and realize that they probably have the most complete education around and they know it. While they will never be the program that does the "most" of anything (except for maybe penile prosthesis, since they do an absurd 5 a week when I was there), they really have no defecits and they teach very well. Some of the attendings are super hands off (pluses and minuses there) and some are super hands on until you prove your worth. But having a few nationally recognized stars in urology on staff helps.

West Virginia: If ony PCOM didn't have those name brand attendings, this would be #1 without a doubt. It is clearly the single best surgical experience among all of the programs (and that means a lot). On top of that, their urology program won DO surgeon of the year three years running when I was down there. That meant the residents at WV were more impressive than the residents in any DO program in any surgical field in the country.... for three straight years. Probably four, but I haven't followed up on last years winner. Their entire staff of attendings are awesome, but their program director takes the cake for most impressive one you'll ever meet. He is constantly pushing you to know more, and somehow it feels warm and welcoming when he tells you to use a more objective measurement to describe every little thing. Some people might lose their minds in charleston WV. Its a real city, for sure, but a small one. And one that is surrounded by nothing but the hills for probably an hour in every direction. Also of note, as of my rotation there: They'd never taken anyone who had a home urology program (so Rowan, PCOM, MSU, CCOM) and as far as I know they've also never taken anyone from NYCOM or TouroCOM. That second part might just be coincidental, but the former was a underlying feeling they didn't cover up too much. They have ZERO negative feelings towards northern programs or the places with home programs, they just talk a lot about how they always come through for the people from the west and south who have no urology programs anywhere near them and its been reflected in their match list back when I was checking that.

DMC: The tale of two cities right within one program. This is really a program of have and have not. The first ~3 years are mostly spent at the non-"DMC" sites. This used to be a much smaller program consisting of primarily suburban hospitals but (somewhat) recently greatly expanded by adding the presence of the Detroit Medical Center system. They are moving more and more away from these suburban sites, but for now you spend much of your first three years (unless stuff has changed) there. Its not bad, and I dont want to make it sound that way, but they are all individually so-so hospitals for urology (and combine to make a decent but disjointed system). You'll learn plenty from attendings who want to do nothing more than make you the master of whatever specific craft they can teach you, but its very... "uneven" from what Ive seen and been told. But then youe 4th and 5th years.... good god. DMC is an absolute wonder to work in, the attendings are amazing, and it is the Meccah of urologic trauma. Plus you get to work with the big man. Santucci. I hear he rubs some people the wrong way, but to me he was always the most amazingly down to earth and chill surgeon Ive ever met. And he does absurd surgeries.


Cook County/Stroger: Exceptional experience. Absurd pathology. Excellent education. With as few modern conveniences as possible. A spectacular program with probably the best pathology around (One could argue for DMC's trauma pathology, but this is pathology of all kinds). People come here incredibly sick with strange tumors, comically large stones, and delapidated genitals. The program director is an absolutely captivating man who you will probably fall in love with. The call schedule is a bit more forgiving than at most places. And it is right in the heart of the city. So why so low? It is nice to be at the cutting edge of technology. It is expected to be somewhere in the modern age. This is often practicing a decade in the past. They really have to do some amazing things with minimal resources here and even though the residents really make the best out of it (check out where they go post graduation. its good), when they talk a bit more off the cuff they are a touch less thrilled with it. Now they do get to spend a decent amount of time at some private hospitals where they get some up to date (And even cutting edge) experience, but again the residents comment that it is amazing but too limited in the larger scope of how much time they spend at Stroger (the main hospital). There was also some rumbling about service coming before education (e.i. catering to every need of the census and maxing out OR booking being more important than educational experiences), but I have to say that their educational time is raved about, so they do accomplish good education with the time they carve out.

Overall I'd say these four above are heads and shoulders above the rest and I dont think anyone has ever seriously argued that they werent the top 4. The next three are also generally acknowledged as the next level and are sort of interchangeable in order.

UMDNJ: Mixed bag of a program. Definitely some very impressive stuff going on there, but it always struck me as surprisingly low morale and a bit unorganized. The latter two might be related. I was only there very briefly, but I got the feeling that it was once a more active urology service and has been shrinking a bit. Still with that said, it definitely has MORE than enough of all sorts of pathology to keep you very well educated. Just not sure why I keep hearing (and got the feeling myself) that the residents aren't super happy. I'm sure they are regular happy (their urology residents. its awesome), but they just seemed less thrilled than everyone else did at other places.

Olympia fields: Generally a VERY well spoken about program. I never had any experience. But people generally agree it falls into the 5-7 slot if you are ranking them. Has a LOT of DaVinci experience IIRC.

East Lansing: See olympia fields above. Basically the exact same write up. People generally feel its in this second teir, but they love that it has a pretty strong university hospital component with lots of fellowship trained attendings to give you some really diverse specialized surgeries.

The other MI hospitals: All sort of go into the bag of "You're a urology. Hell yea!" while still being sort of acknowledged as second rate. I do not say that in ANY way to put down these programs. I am sure they are quite impressive in their own ways, but they simply do not draw the same competition, positive reviews, or unique memorable characteristics the above programs have so they all end up lumped here at the end. I feel bad not doing them more justice, but I skipped them on my tour after students after student who did "all the MI" programs told me that they would skip every MI program not named DMC or Lansing because those two were simply (for students) better experiences. But its coming from students who probably cant evaluate at all what benefits they reap from actually seeing every single program. I myself took their advice and just stuck to the hospitals that had the name brand appeal when I did the urology tour of the country.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
DocEspana said:
A quick run down of what you should expect from someone who did the rounds 1-2 years ago. These are very roughly in the order of how much they impressed me (and generally everyone agrees on roughly this order)

PCOM/Einstein: They act like their **** don't stink. Except... it doesn't. They really are that good. You need to get past the attitude that some of them have (others are pure golden friendliness) and realize that they probably have the most complete education around and they know it. While they will never be the program that does the "most" of anything (except for maybe penile prosthesis, since they do an absurd 5 a week when I was there), they really have no defecits and they teach very well. Some of the attendings are super hands off (pluses and minuses there) and some are super hands on until you prove your worth. But having a few nationally recognized stars in urology on staff helps.

West Virginia: If ony PCOM didn't have those name brand attendings, this would be #1 without a doubt. It is clearly the single best surgical experience among all of the programs (and that means a lot). On top of that, their urology program won DO surgeon of the year three years running when I was down there. That meant the residents at WV were more impressive than the residents in any DO program in any surgical field in the country.... for three straight years. Probably four, but I haven't followed up on last years winner. Their entire staff of attendings are awesome, but their program director takes the cake for most impressive one you'll ever meet. He is constantly pushing you to know more, and somehow it feels warm and welcoming when he tells you to use a more objective measurement to describe every little thing. Some people might lose their minds in charleston WV. Its a real city, for sure, but a small one. And one that is surrounded by nothing but the hills for probably an hour in every direction. Also of note, as of my rotation there: They'd never taken anyone who had a home urology program (so Rowan, PCOM, MSU, CCOM) and as far as I know they've also never taken anyone from NYCOM or TouroCOM. That second part might just be coincidental, but the former was a underlying feeling they didn't cover up too much. They have ZERO negative feelings towards northern programs or the places with home programs, they just talk a lot about how they always come through for the people from the west and south who have no urology programs anywhere near them and its been reflected in their match list back when I was checking that.

DMC: The tale of two cities right within one program. This is really a program of have and have not. The first ~3 years are mostly spent at the non-"DMC" sites. This used to be a much smaller program consisting of primarily suburban hospitals but (somewhat) recently greatly expanded by adding the presence of the Detroit Medical Center system. They are moving more and more away from these suburban sites, but for now you spend much of your first three years (unless stuff has changed) there. Its not bad, and I dont want to make it sound that way, but they are all individually so-so hospitals for urology (and combine to make a decent but disjointed system). You'll learn plenty from attendings who want to do nothing more than make you the master of whatever specific craft they can teach you, but its very... "uneven" from what Ive seen and been told. But then youe 4th and 5th years.... good god. DMC is an absolute wonder to work in, the attendings are amazing, and it is the Meccah of urologic trauma. Plus you get to work with the big man. Santucci. I hear he rubs some people the wrong way, but to me he was always the most amazingly down to earth and chill surgeon Ive ever met. And he does absurd surgeries.


CCOM: Exceptional experience. Absurd pathology. Excellent education. With as few modern conveniences as possible. A spectacular program with probably the best pathology around (One could argue for DMC's trauma pathology, but this is pathology of all kinds). People come here incredibly sick with strange tumors, comically large stones, and delapidated genitals. The program director is an absolutely captivating man who you will probably fall in love with. The call schedule is a bit more forgiving than at most places. And it is right in the heart of the city. So why so low? It is nice to be at the cutting edge of technology. It is expected to be somewhere in the modern age. They really have to do some amazing things with minimal resources here and even those the residents really make the best out of it (check out where they go post graduation. its good), when they talk a bit more off the cuff they are a touch less thrilled with it. Now they do get to spend a decent amount of time at some private hospitals where they get some up to date (And even cutting edge) experience, but again the residents comment that it is amazing but too limited in the larger scope of how much time they spend at Stroger (the main hospital). There was also some rumbling about service coming before education (e.i. catering to every need of the census and maxing out OR booking being more important than educational experiences), but I have to say that their educational time is raved about, so they do accomplish good education with the time they carve out.

Overall I'd say these four are heads and shoulders above the rest.

UMDNJ: Mixed bag of a program. Definitely some very impressive stuff going on there, but it always struck me as surprisingly low morale and a bit unorganized. The latter two might be related. I was only there very briefly, but I got the feeling that it was once a more active urology service and has been shrinking a bit. Still with that said, it definitely has MORE than enough of all sorts of pathology to keep you very well educated. Just not sure why I keep hearing (and got the feeling myself) that the residents aren't super happy. I'm sure they are regular happy (their urology residents. its awesome), but they just seemed less thrilled than everyone else did at other places.

Olympia fields: Generally a VERY well spoken about program. I never had any experience. But people generally agree it falls into the 5-7 slot if you are ranking them. Has a LOT of DaVinci experience IIRC.

East Lansing: See olympia fields above. Basically the exact same write up. People generally feel its in this second teir, but they love that it has a pretty strong university hospital component with lots of fellowship trained attendings to give you some really diverse specialized surgeries.

The other MI hospitals: All sort of go into the bag of "You're a urology. Hell yea!" while still being sort of acknowledged as second rate. I do not say that in ANY way to put down these programs. I am sure they are quite impressive in their own ways, but they simply do not draw the same competition, positive reviews, or unique memorable characteristics the above programs have so they all end up lumped here at the end. I feel bad not doing them more justice, but I skipped them on my tour after students after student who did "all the MI" programs told me that they would skip every MI program not named DMC or Lansing because those two were simply (for students) better experiences. But its coming from students who probably cant evaluate at all what benefits they reap from actually seeing every single program. I myself took their advice and just stuck to the hospitals that had the name brand appeal when I did the urology tour of the country.
Click to expand...

Excellent post! How important is it to turn in your ERAS application early?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
That is a phenomenal write up. Great to have you posting routinely again.
 
99problems said:
Excellent post! How important is it to turn in your ERAS application early?
Click to expand...

Very.

1) Some of these programs do an extremely early interview. CCOM - Stroger interviewed in mid september, so they sent out invites in late august. These programs only have one interview day and the ones that have two (PCOM and WVSOM) have them 7 days apart. So you NEED to be well before the window of whenever they interview. Each year all the programs sort of play this game where they try to interview at the time that gets them the best candidates and you'll see things like the 5 MI programs have their interviews on five consecutive days. Except WVSOM always interviews last (December). Always.

2) Remember that these programs are competing with AUA match, which matches BEFORE the AOA match. Even though only 3-5 DOs go AUA each year, pretty much every single DO is in the AUA match because, well, why the hell not. But coincidentally the date for the AOA programs to lock in their match list is always within a day or two of the last day to withdraw from the AUA match list. So some programs will contact people who are very high on their list just prior to that withdrawal date if they are afraid of losing the person to the AUA. What does this have to do with early ERAS apps? Because the AUA matches an entire month earlier than the AOA, the allopathic urology programs are interviewing EVEN EARLIER than the DO ones. So the DO programs tend to follow the lead of the allopathic programs and interview in that super early window (most interviews occur in september and october when the MD programs are interviewing, with PCOM occasionally falling to november and WVSOM always being in december). So they expect everything in their folders within a week or two of ERAS opening.
 
do you mean when AUA ERAS opens or DO ERAS opens?
 
99problems said:
Who's applying DO urology this cycle!? I want to hear your experiences about rotating at other institutions.
Click to expand...

Current Urology Intern, happy to pass along any help.

I rotated at the NJ program, Lansing, WV, My. Clemens, and Grand Rapids, and an ACGME program.

While I can't speak for places that I didn't rotate at, I'd say the rankings above are more or less accurate, with some slight variation based on personal preferences/experiences.

My favorite places were Lansing and WV. Both had great residents who are invested in developing a culture for success, faculty that were invested in the success and happiness of the residents. And both were busy. Plenty of work and exposure to get you in the OR and become a great surgeon . Lansing is a great college town and Charleston isn't flashy but has what you need while you're there.

As a side note, the ACGME program I rotated at is a mid-tier program and the DO programs I visited were at the level or exceeded that of this ACGME program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Is it possible to apply to the allopathic urology match and then if that doesn't work out apply to the osteopathic urology programs? I know the allopathic urology match occurs earlier. Is this an option if you want a fair try for both allopathic and osteopathic spots?
 
uworldrelay said:
Is it possible to apply to the allopathic urology match and then if that doesn't work out apply to the osteopathic urology programs? I know the allopathic urology match occurs earlier. Is this an option if you want a fair try for both allopathic and osteopathic spots?
Click to expand...

yes. I have a friend doing this right now.
 
do you know what the average step1 score is for urology? comlex and USMLE?
 
hallowmann said:
Which ones? I believe both means are ~70-75th percentile. That's not really "low", but it's not like it's outrageously high (although it's close to the top for residency averages).
Click to expand...

I've heard in the DO world board scores aren't as important as connections. Don't know if it's true but that's what I've heard. Board scores are more important when applying allo.
 
JimmyB123 said:
I've heard in the DO world board scores aren't as important as connections. Don't know if it's true but that's what I've heard. Board scores are more important when applying allo.
Click to expand...
Connections are more important than anything in both cases, thats how you see some people with bogus step1 scores go to competitive res. and also bogus MCAT scores go to higher level schools. COMLEX is a pretty easy exam, and the averages are wayyyyyy low for some reason, its very possible to score 150-200 points higher than the averages. Now the USMLE is a different story now, that test will put a hurtin on ya if you're not ready.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

T
Try to match Urology, or go straight for OB/GYN? Advice on how to apply two specialties
Replies
30
Views
6K
BorntobeDO?
BorntobeDO?
D
DO Urology Hopefuls 2016 Class
Replies
37
Views
7K
unouomedude
U
U
Urology: urology match and osteopathic match?
Replies
6
Views
2K
hallowmann
hallowmann
TCOM12
AOA urology match
Replies
2
Views
4K
PistolPete
P
allendo
D.O. urology programs
Replies
5
Views
2K
bla_3x
bla_3x
Top