DO vs MD

[jcaptian]

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Besides spouting general groupthink, what is your guys source for disputing La Presse's statement. At one of the hospitals I work at there are far more FMG's in competitive residencies like surgery, radiology, and orthopedics, than there are DOs. In fact there are 0 DOs in any of those 3....

And this one hospital is indicative of what's going on in the U.S. as a whole? Search these threads...residents and attending have weighed in on this topic countless times. What you see at your hospital is not the norm...

 

[IslandStyle808]

Yes, but the family medicine and internal medicine residencies are littered with DOs and FMGs while the more competitive programs have mainly AMGs with a few IMGs sprinkled in.

This is umm....true.

http://goo.gl/HABFe

I am trying to figure out how the FMGs and IMGs are more able to get residency spots than DO based on both of your statements.

As for more FMGs and IMGs taking the more competitive residencies, I think you are reciting "numbers" rather than "percentages." The percentages are more important to look in the application process than numbers. Let say that a hospital program for anesthesiology picks 6 FMGs/IMGs but only picks 3 DOs. There are a higher number of FMGs and lower number of DOs but lets find out how many applied. There are 14FMGs/IMGs and 5DOs applying to the program. If you do the math, more DOs (60%) were able to get this residency than FMG/IMGs (43%). It is a crude example, but this show's that percentages are needed to be looked at and not the crude numbers. There are less DOs than FMG/IMGs applying to US MD residencies.

As for the international schools have better residency matches than the DO and caribbean schools, could anyone show me the stats on this one? I don't believe it to true in the majority of circumstances. There are a few international schools that match better than caribbean but not a lot.

 

[gettheleadout]

Haven't seen you post in a while! Been busy?

Yeah, this past semester's been a bit heavy... Glad to be back though!

And guys, this has been discussed beyond belief and data has been presented to show that IMG's are at a huge disadvantage for residency positions. Why are we still discussing this? Find the old threads and read them if you want the data.

Edit: Actually, just look at this: http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf and this: http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

 

[jcaptian]

Yeah, this past semester's been a bit heavy... Glad to be back though!

And guys, this has been discussed beyond belief and data has been presented to show that IMG's are at a huge disadvantage for residency positions. Why are we still discussing this? Find the old threads and read them if you want the data.

👍

 

[MiracleforMD]

I am trying to figure out how the FMGs and IMGs are more able to get residency spots than DO based on both of your statements.

As for more FMGs and IMGs taking the more competitive residencies, I think you are reciting "numbers" rather than "percentages." The percentages are more important to look in the application process than numbers. Let say that a hospital program for anesthesiology picks 6 FMGs/IMGs but only picks 3 DOs. There are a higher number of FMGs and lower number of DOs but lets find out how many applied. There are 14FMGs/IMGs and 5DOs applying to the program. If you do the math, more DOs (60%) were able to get this residency than FMG/IMGs (43%). It is a crude example, but this show's that percentages are needed to be looked at and not the crude numbers. There are less DOs than FMG/IMGs applying to US MD residencies.

As for the international schools have better residency matches than the DO and caribbean schools, could anyone show me the stats on this one? I don't believe it to true in the majority of circumstances. There are a few international schools that match better than caribbean but not a lot.

Thanks for explaining "numbers vs statistics" for me.👍

I already said I am not sure which is considered better (IMG vs DO) and I have not seen any data on the matter. I was only reciting what I have seen personally. I also do not know the total number of DOs entering the match vs IMGs entering the match. I am not including FMGs from the Caribbean in my thought process

And to the bolded, this is pretty much what I asked for before you lectured me on "math."

 

[MedPR]

Thanks for explaining "numbers vs statistics" for me.👍

I already said I am not sure which is considered better (IMG vs DO) and I have not seen any data on the matter. I was only reciting what I have seen personally. I also do not know the total number of DOs entering the match vs IMGs entering the match. I am not including FMGs from the Caribbean in my thought process

And to the bolded, this is pretty much what I asked for before you lectured me on "math."

In 2012, there were 4279 USIMG acgme applicants. 49.1% matched. Of the 2102 that matched, 59 matched general surgery.

In 2012, there were 4623 DO graduates. 2,360 applied for Acgme residencies and 74% of them matched. Of the 1,764 that matched in the Acgme match, 36 went into Acgme gen surgery. There were an additional 108 DOs that matched AOA general surgery.

108+36/4623 = 3.1% of DOs in 2012 matched general surgery
59/4279 = 1.3% for all USIMGs ( SGU might have better odds, I don't know)
914/16,527 = 5.5% of all USMDs match general surgery in 2012

In 2012, 108 matched AOA general surgery, 2271 DOs participated in the AOA match that year. 108/2271 = 4.7%

for you.

 

[MiracleforMD]

for you.

Oops. When was that posted? I totally missed that.

 

[La Presse]

IMG MD everyday over DO. Just a personal choice.

 

[EarthtoneJon]

DO is more holistic, focusing on not just the disease but the whole patient. So for a broken wrist, for instance, the MD radiologist will X-ray just the end of the arm but the DO radiologist would do a full body scan.

False. The DO would use gamma, infrared, and visible rays, too, since he or she is looking at the whole picture. Think holistic.

 

[MedPR]

As a pre-med the best reasons not to go to DO school are.

1. You don't have to pay a huge deposit in December.
2. You don't have to take two sets of board exams.
3. You don't have to travel to campus for OMM class.

 

[Gauss44]

Dug out 2012 Osteopathic Medical College Information Book and MSAR:

It looks like, most DO schools have tuition north of $40k, while most MD schools don't - unless it's because my MSAR is a couple years old. MD schools might have more public options.

DO book on shadowing, "Osteopathic college admission and alumni offices. Admission and alumni officials at school have many contacts in the osteopathic profession. Contact them, and let them know that you are looking to shadow and learn more about becoming an osteopathic physician." "Contacting state osteopathic associations. Many of the state associations compile lists of their members who have indicated an interest in having prospective osteopathic medical students shadow them."

This might have been the confusion about DO overseas: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_do_you_mean_by_Osteopath

Just a fun fact (from DO book): "With an understanding of the benefits of osteopathic approach to patient care, many MDs are expressing an interest in learning how to integrate osteopathic philosophy and OMM into their practices. Several osteopathic schools offer CME courses that are open to MDs." I might try to sit in on one if they will allow.

 

[Hemorrage]

IMG MD everyday over DO. Just a personal choice.

lol goodluck

 

[jcaptian]

lol goodluck

+1

 

[gettheleadout]

IMG MD everyday over DO. Just a personal choice.

Why?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Thanks for explaining "numbers vs statistics" for me.👍

I already said I am not sure which is considered better (IMG vs DO) and I have not seen any data on the matter. I was only reciting what I have seen personally. I also do not know the total number of DOs entering the match vs IMGs entering the match. I am not including FMGs from the Caribbean in my thought process

And to the bolded, this is pretty much what I asked for before you lectured me on "math."

Yep and there is a good reason why I lectured on the math. Here is NRMP data.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf

Look at page 11 and the PGY-1 matches for MD U.S. graduates, DO graduates, and International medical school graduates. The summary of this is 95% MD US grads, 74% DO grads, and 50% MD IMGs (US citizens) matched in ACGME residencies. Thus US MD > DO > IMG in terms of matching. This is why the percentages are important.

I asked the question afterward because with this data I only answer half of your question. I still don't know the difference between caribbean grads and international grads residency match percentage. I don't buy it that international grads match better than caribbean grads most of the time. There is also the fact that some international schools that have pretty good matches into US residencies. This is why I don't want to completely dismiss your claim.

 

[La Presse]

lol goodluck

Oh, shut up!

Why?

Lots and lots of cultural factors. 😎🙄

I am well aware that these types of threads pop up periodically and the same conclusion is often reached, but I really don't wanna take take 2 sets of boards or use OMM (my family doc had no need for it). There are a lot of other things also, but I'd rather not discuss them to length in this thread. I just feel certain people will not be able to handle it and subsequently proceed to give me vitriol.

 

[Midifelder10]

Yep and there is a good reason why I lectured on the math. Here is NRMP data.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf

Look at page 11 and the PGY-1 matches for MD U.S. graduates, DO graduates, and International medical school graduates. The summary of this is 95% MD US grads, 74% DO grads, and 50% MD IMGs (US citizens) matched in ACGME residencies. Thus US MD > DO > IMG in terms of matching. This is why the percentages are important.

I asked the question afterward because with this data I only answer half of your question. I still don't know the difference between caribbean grads and international grads residency match percentage. I don't buy it that international grads match better than caribbean grads most of the time. There is also the fact that some international schools that have pretty good matches into US residencies. This is why I don't want to completely dismiss your claim.

You sir/madam make sense. I talked to my doc who is MD and without any hesitation told me to go MD/DO route over FMG. That is anecdotal but your numbers are hard facts, which can't be disputed.

 

[IveGotTwins]

I'm an MD. There are multiple DOs in my residency program. They all say OMM is stupid and did not go to a DO school by choice. They all would have preferred to go to MD programs. For a variety of reasons MD wasn't an option for them.

That being said, they are all awesome people and most of them completely competent and some are better than people who went to MD schools.

The fact is that for some MD residency programs you will be shut out as a DO. This was true for my internship. The program director simply did not interview DOs. It is my personal opinion that many great candidates are missed using this policy.

For primary care I would say MD=DO provided that whatever program you have your eyes on interviews DOs at all.

For Neurosurgery, orthopedic surgery, dermatology, ENT, and probably radiology and urology MD>>DO. Sorry. It's just the way it is. Of course there are exceptions but as a general rule the specialties listed above are MD territory.

For the middle of the road as far as competitiveness like anesthesiology, general surgery, OB-Gyn, etc. being a DO probably doesn't really hurt if you're USMLE scores are competitive. Again, there are programs who will never interview a DO regardless of scores. Just be smart when applying. See if the program has any DOs in it currently.

Take the USMLE. It's lots of fun. It also helps getting into residency.

 

[Sephiroth]

I am well aware that these types of threads pop up periodically and the same conclusion is often reached, but I really don't wanna take take 2 sets of boards or use OMM (my family doc had no need for it). There are a lot of other things also, but I'd rather not discuss them to length in this thread. I just feel certain people will not be able to handle it and subsequently proceed to give me vitriol.

Damn, now I'm curious.

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard that even though %wise, DO's do better in the match in the US as a whole, there are certain areas in which certain foreign schools do better (the example I was given was Sackler in NYC). I dunno if anyone knows any source for the kind of info needed to verify or refute that, though my guess is it would apply strictly to primary care specialties since there aree a lot of spots in certain areas like NYC.

 

[mcloaf]

Lots and lots of cultural factors. 😎🙄

.

...tiger mom?

 

[La Presse]

Damn, now I'm curious.

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard that even though %wise, DO's do better in the match in the US as a whole, there are certain areas in which certain foreign schools do better (the example I was given was Sackler in NYC). I dunno if anyone knows any source for the kind of info needed to verify or refute that, though my guess is it would apply strictly to primary care specialties since there aree a lot of spots in certain areas like NYC.

+1

When I heard and Sackler and Beirut and a few other places, I went nuts! I got a pool of comments on whether their graduates were considered IMGs when being evaluated for their matches and yet I still get mixed opinions. I began looking at match lists by year and saw people who matched in to Brown, Long Island Jewish, Mount Sinai, AE, and other programs that are peppered around the New York area. Despite this, several members told me that match lists were irrelevant and that with the increasing number of IMGs coming out, US MD grads would still take precedence when being considered to match--even though it is stated explicitly that the program has a partnership with the regents of New York! There are a few others who do match well. Included is AUB, Cornell-Qatar, Duke-Singapore, etc.

I'd love to dish out numbers and do an intense and comprehensive analysis, but that is just too much work.

...tiger mom?

Yes...and Dad.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

MD > Int'l MD >>> DO > Carib.

Maybe I should mention that when I talk about IMGs or FMGs or whatever you guys call it, I am not referring to Caribbean medical schools. In fact , one can say that I find Caribs and other medical programs (Europe, Asia, et. al.) to be mutually exclusive. One of the reasons for this is because of the varying attrition rates in the Caribbean versus many European schools. Should we bust out the charts? I also notice that a lot of IMGs have more "quality" matches than DO graduates. Not all but the majority...

This is umm....true.

http://goo.gl/HABFe

When you look at the charts, note that "US IMG" and "IMG" are seperate. From a cursory glance at the chart you provided, I saw that the "IMG" category had a better match rate in pretty much all specialties.

US IMG= US citizens/permanent residents who went abroad because they could not attend a US medical school.

IMG (aka FMG in these forums)= foreign citizens who got into the medical schools in their respective countries. In other words, most of the time, they got into medical school because they had the best grades among the applicants of their country.

Also, remember that as things currently stand, only DO's can apply to DO residencies (which include most specialties), but DO's can apply to MD residencies as well. Even if the matches are merged, I feel that the "former" DO-only residencies will show a large preference to DO's, even among competitive specialties. Only time will tell though.

 

[pre med 2014]

Yep and there is a good reason why I lectured on the math. Here is NRMP data.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf

Look at page 11 and the PGY-1 matches for MD U.S. graduates, DO graduates, and International medical school graduates. The summary of this is 95% MD US grads, 74% DO grads, and 50% MD IMGs (US citizens) matched in ACGME residencies. Thus US MD > DO > IMG in terms of matching. This is why the percentages are important.

I asked the question afterward because with this data I only answer half of your question. I still don't know the difference between caribbean grads and international grads residency match percentage. I don't buy it that international grads match better than caribbean grads most of the time. There is also the fact that some international schools that have pretty good matches into US residencies. This is why I don't want to completely dismiss your claim.

Is ACGME stand for MD residencies? If so, 74% of DOs getting MD residencies seems high

 

[MedPR]

Is ACGME stand for MD residencies? If so, 74% of DOs getting MD residencies seems high

74% that apply. Not 74% of all graduates.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[Medstart108]

MD > Int'l MD >>> DO > Carib.

Lumping international MD all in one group is hugely misleading.

International graduates from the UK, Ireland, Australia and other english speaking countries can hardly be considered all that different from the U.S in terms of medical teaching. After all, their patients aren't dying left right and center.

Caribbean schools serve one purpose: To give people who couldn't get into U.S schools a second chance. You can be pretty well assured that the Caribbean schools do not harbor the greatest minds of the country or any potential geniuses. If they are a genius that decided to forgo a US school for a Caribbean school, they may be a genius, but they lack common sense.

However, International schools can range from complete crap to shining institutions easily more reputable than most low and mid tier U.S schools (think Oxford, Cambridge). They also cover a huge range in talent from average students to very very good students.

You will get international graduates who have trouble with English, possible gaps in knowledge, poor grades and a lack of clinical experience, but you will also get international graduates from top schools with little gaps in knowledge, a solid grasp of English if not native, and some (U.S electives) clinical experience.

With Caribbean graduates, they will have been taught to a good standard, have a lot of U.S clinical experience and a native grasp of English and U.S culture. However, the students clearly were not good enough to get into U.S medical schools.

So really, International MDs can range from easily better than all but the top tier US MD schools to unemployable.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

......Included is AUB, Cornell-Qatar, Duke-Singapore, etc.

Unrelated to the thread, but you do know that foreign Duke-NUS grads are required to work in Singapore for five years right? Even though you pay $150k in tuition.

 

[music2doc]

Oh, shut up!



Lots and lots of cultural factors. 😎🙄

I am well aware that these types of threads pop up periodically and the same conclusion is often reached, but I really don't wanna take take 2 sets of boards or use OMM (my family doc had no need for it). There are a lot of other things also, but I'd rather not discuss them to length in this thread. I just feel certain people will not be able to handle it and subsequently proceed to give me vitriol.

Honestly, you need to take off your blinders and look up for once. The IMG MD is [nearly] worthless in the U.S. If you want to be a physician in the UNITED STATES (or Canada), you need to do a US program. Period. Yes, there are exceptions. They are rare -- and becoming rarer. Even as a U.S. MD student, we are told that the competition is fierce and to be prepared. The competition increases every year and it has gotten to the point that US MD residency applicants are no longer practically "guaranteed" most any moderately competitive specialty. DO programs get around 80% of their students into a US residency program. US MD programs average about 94% (97% where I am). IMG programs are <50% and non-Carib IMGs are likely at a DISadvantage to the major Carib programs due to a lack of US rotations. This is all assuming you are a US citizen applying to foreign programs. In that case, it is pretty safe to assume you're not talking about attending Oxford or Cambridge. If you are, please save yourself the headache and apply to HMS, Yale, U-Chicago, Stanford, etc. instead (i.e., their peer schools in the US).

 

[Hemorrage]

Only on a pre-med forum do people think less of a DO program. Everyone thinks they are entitled to an MD degree and will only 'go' DO if they have to. People realize this, regardless of whether you're a DO or an MD, you are at the top of the food chain when it comes to healthcare- you outrank every other health professional. Getting your "MD" from another country is by far the worst option. First off, you aren't an "MD", you're an IMG most likely with an MBBS or another form of medical degree. Does this mean you're less qualified? No of course not but these degrees are meant for doctors to treat their own countries, not for american trolls who couldn't get into AMERICAN medical schools to go to. AMERICAN residency programs are designed to train american educated medical students, not IMG's, thats pretty simple logic if you ask me. The whole purpose of this medical school thing isn't about you, its about society, and PD's/Boards will focus on producing physicians that are inclined to serve their country. Plus do you honestly think anyone takes you seriously if you go to the Caribbean?

 

[MedPR]

Honestly, you need to take off your blinders and look up for once. The IMG MD is [nearly] worthless in the U.S. If you want to be a physician in the UNITED STATES (or Canada), you need to do a US program. Period. Yes, there are exceptions. They are rare -- and becoming rarer. Even as a U.S. MD student, we are told that the competition is fierce and to be prepared. The competition increases every year and it has gotten to the point that US MD residency applicants are no longer practically "guaranteed" most any moderately competitive specialty. DO programs get around 80% of their students into a US residency program. US MD programs average about 94% (97% where I am). IMG programs are <50% and non-Carib IMGs are likely at a DISadvantage to the major Carib programs due to a lack of US rotations. This is all assuming you are a US citizen applying to foreign programs. In that case, it is pretty safe to assume you're not talking about attending Oxford or Cambridge. If you are, please save yourself the headache and apply to HMS, Yale, U-Chicago, Stanford, etc. instead (i.e., their peer schools in the US).

👍

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[Fivo]

Only on a pre-med forum do people think less of a DO program. Everyone thinks they are entitled to an MD degree and will only 'go' DO if they have to. People realize this, regardless of whether you're a DO or an MD, you are at the top of the food chain when it comes to healthcare- you outrank every other health professional. Getting your "MD" from another country is by far the worst option. First off, you aren't an "MD", you're an IMG most likely with an MBBS or another form of medical degree. Does this mean you're less qualified? No of course not but these degrees are meant for doctors to treat their own countries, not for american trolls who couldn't get into AMERICAN medical schools to go to. AMERICAN residency programs are designed to train american educated medical students, not IMG's, thats pretty simple logic if you ask me. The whole purpose of this medical school thing isn't about you, its about society, and PD's/Boards will focus on producing physicians that are inclined to serve their country. Plus do you honestly think anyone takes you seriously if you go to the Caribbean?

 

[487806]

Is there a huge difference that I just can't find between DOs and MDs? I have looked into it and they seem to be nearly the same thing. I know that it is harder to get into MD schools. Any input would be appreciated! Below are how they are similar.

D.O. vs. M.D.

Both D.O.s and M.D.s typically have a four year undergraduate degree prior to medical training.

Both D.O.s and M.D.s have spent four-years in medical education. Both take the MCAT and are subject to a rigorous application process. Historically, D.O. schools are more open to the non-traditional candidate.

D.O.s, like M.D.s, choose to practice in a specialty area of medicine and complete a residency program ranging from 3-7 years. Some D.O.s complete the same residency programs as their M.D. counterparts.

M.D. students take the USMLE exam and D.O. students take the COMLEX exam. Both must pass a state licensing examination to practice medicine.

D.O.s perform surgery, deliver babies, treat patients, prescribe medications, and work in the same settings as M.D.s. D.O.s use the same tools, treatments, and technologies of medicine as M.D.s.

D.O.s receive extra training in the musculoskeletal system, which make up the muscles and bones of a person.

Use a search function.

 

[JoBreeze]

DO is more holistic, focusing on not just the disease but the whole patient. So for a broken wrist, for instance, the MD radiologist will X-ray just the end of the arm but the DO radiologist would do a full body scan.

This is solid trolling.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

Oh, shut up!
Lots and lots of cultural factors. 😎🙄


I am well aware that these types of threads pop up periodically and the same conclusion is often reached, but I really don't wanna take take 2 sets of boards or use OMM (my family doc had no need for it). There are a lot of other things also, but I'd rather not discuss them to length in this thread. I just feel certain people will not be able to handle it and subsequently proceed to give me vitriol.

....you wonder why? Everything you have said on this thread makes you sound as though somehow a DO is an incompetent healthcare practitioner who is unable to take care of his/her patients. And your attitude/tone makes it sounds as though being a DO is somehow something that is beneath you.

As IveGotTwins pointed out, there are multiple DOs in his/her residency program. They all say OMM is stupid and did not go to a DO school by choice (the DOs I work with say the same. None of them manipulate in the ER because they don't want to give someone a vertebral artery dissection). They all would have preferred to go to MD programs. For a variety of reasons MD wasn't an option for them. That being said, they are all awesome people and most of them completely competent and some are better than people who went to MD schools.

I've interviewed at 2 DO schools and 1 MD, been accepted to 1 DO. For me, MD will likely not be an option due to my less than stellar verbal score. I did well in undergrad, graduated summa cum laude, aced all my classes, had a 3.83 GPA, 3.91 sGPA, but because of my performance on one section of one exam (verbal), I was rejected from the majority of the MD schools I applied to. Is that one section going to be indicative of the kind of physician I am going to be? I HIGHLY doubt it. As a matter of fact, it will likely have no indication as to the kind of physician I am going to be.

What I am saying is, you never know what your situation might be. Worry about performing to the best of your ability in undergrad and on the MCAT and let the chips fall where they may. I thought I would do really well on the MCAT, and I did on the sciences, but because I did poorly on verbal and could not make up for it (english is my second language), I was forced to apply broadly and to both MD and DO schools.

I do not think that being a DO is in any way inferior to being and MD. Will it be more difficult to land certain residencies as a DO, certainly. But, the quality of education that I will receive as a US medical student will be the same. Getting into medical school is already hard enough as it is and is quickly getting more and more competitive. The majority of people who get into medical school, MD or DO, deserve to be there and are smart, hardworking, intelligent people. So please, don't caught up in the DO vs MD pissing contests that goes on daily on SDN.

 

[Ravizzle]

....you wonder why? Everything you have said on this thread makes you sound as though somehow a DO is an incompetent healthcare practitioner who is unable to take care of his/her patients. And your attitude/tone makes it sounds as though being a DO is somehow something that is beneath you.

As IveGotTwins pointed out, there are multiple DOs in his/her residency program. They all say OMM is stupid and did not go to a DO school by choice (the DOs I work with say the same. None of them manipulate in the ER because they don't want to give someone a vertebral artery dissection). They all would have preferred to go to MD programs. For a variety of reasons MD wasn't an option for them. That being said, they are all awesome people and most of them completely competent and some are better than people who went to MD schools.

I've interviewed at 2 DO schools and 1 MD, been accepted to 1 DO. For me, MD will likely not be an option due to my less than stellar verbal score. I did well in undergrad, graduated summa cum laude, aced all my classes, had a 3.83 GPA, 3.91 sGPA, but because of my performance on one section of one exam (verbal), I was rejected from the majority of the MD schools I applied to. Is that one section going to be indicative of the kind of physician I am going to be? I HIGHLY doubt it. As a matter of fact, it will likely have no indication as to the kind of physician I am going to be.

What I am saying is, you never know what your situation might be. Worry about performing to the best of your ability in undergrad and on the MCAT and let the chips fall where they may. I thought I would do really well on the MCAT, and I did on the sciences, but because I did poorly on verbal and could not make up for it (english is my second language), I was forced to apply broadly and to both MD and DO schools.

I do not think that being a DO is in any way inferior to being and MD. Will it be more difficult to land certain residencies as a DO, certainly. But, the quality of education that I will receive as a US medical student will be the same. Getting into medical school is already hard enough as it is and is quickly getting more and more competitive. The majority of people who get into medical school, MD or DO, deserve to be there and are smart, hardworking, intelligent people. So please, don't caught up in the DO vs MD pissing contests that goes on daily on SDN.

👍

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[Midifelder10]

....you wonder why? Everything you have said on this thread makes you sound as though somehow a DO is an incompetent healthcare practitioner who is unable to take care of his/her patients. And your attitude/tone makes it sounds as though being a DO is somehow something that is beneath you.

As IveGotTwins pointed out, there are multiple DOs in his/her residency program. They all say OMM is stupid and did not go to a DO school by choice (the DOs I work with say the same. None of them manipulate in the ER because they don't want to give someone a vertebral artery dissection). They all would have preferred to go to MD programs. For a variety of reasons MD wasn't an option for them. That being said, they are all awesome people and most of them completely competent and some are better than people who went to MD schools.

I've interviewed at 2 DO schools and 1 MD, been accepted to 1 DO. For me, MD will likely not be an option due to my less than stellar verbal score. I did well in undergrad, graduated summa cum laude, aced all my classes, had a 3.83 GPA, 3.91 sGPA, but because of my performance on one section of one exam (verbal), I was rejected from the majority of the MD schools I applied to. Is that one section going to be indicative of the kind of physician I am going to be? I HIGHLY doubt it. As a matter of fact, it will likely have no indication as to the kind of physician I am going to be.

What I am saying is, you never know what your situation might be. Worry about performing to the best of your ability in undergrad and on the MCAT and let the chips fall where they may. I thought I would do really well on the MCAT, and I did on the sciences, but because I did poorly on verbal and could not make up for it (english is my second language), I was forced to apply broadly and to both MD and DO schools.

I do not think that being a DO is in any way inferior to being and MD. Will it be more difficult to land certain residencies as a DO, certainly. But, the quality of education that I will receive as a US medical student will be the same. Getting into medical school is already hard enough as it is and is quickly getting more and more competitive. The majority of people who get into medical school, MD or DO, deserve to be there and are smart, hardworking, intelligent people. So please, don't caught up in the DO vs MD pissing contests that goes on daily on SDN.

So true. There are multiple reasons why people can not get MD but being stupid was not one of them. DO is very respectable but we have lot of preppy kids on the forum who think they are better than others.

 

[Fivo]

So true. There are multiple reasons why people can not get MD but being stupid was not one of them. DO is very respectable but we have lot of preppy kids on the forum who think they are better than others.

International MDs are very respectable but we have a lot of preppy DO kids on the forum who think they are better than others

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

International MDs are very respectable but we have a lot of preppy DO kids on the forum who think they are better than others

No one is saying DO are better doctors then IMG. But the goal of most people on this forum is to land a US residency in their chosen field. If you just look at the data objectively dealing with this goal (and just this goal) you can make the conclusion MD>DO>IMG

 

[MedPR]

No one is saying DO are better doctors then IMG. But the goal of most people on this forum is to land a US residency in their chosen field. If you just look at the data objectively dealing with this goal (and just this goal) you can make the conclusion MD>DO>IMG

Maybe I missed something, but Fivo isn't disagreeing with you. But really "MD>DO" is only true for IM/FM/Peds and maybe PM&R. In just about everything else MD>DO.

 

[pre med 2014]

Neurosurgery is not harder for DOs. There is an osteopathic neurosurgery association with residences only available to DOs.

 

[MedPR]

Neurosurgery is not harder for DOs. There is an osteopathic neurosurgery association with residences only available to DOs.

Can't tell if you're trolling or not...

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

Maybe I missed something, but Fivo isn't disagreeing with you. But really "MD>DO" is only true for IM/FM/Peds and maybe PM&R. In just about everything else MD>DO.

Right. Hence the greater then or equal too. Because most graduates will end up in one of those specialties you listed I think my annotation might be more true for the majority of people.

 

[MedPR]

Right. Hence the greater then or equal too. Because most graduates will end up in one of those specialties you listed I think my annotation might be more true for the majority of people.

Probably so. Are we talking about ACGME or AOA?

 

[naare0602]

....you wonder why? Everything you have said on this thread makes you sound as though somehow a DO is an incompetent healthcare practitioner who is unable to take care of his/her patients. And your attitude/tone makes it sounds as though being a DO is somehow something that is beneath you.

As IveGotTwins pointed out, there are multiple DOs in his/her residency program. They all say OMM is stupid and did not go to a DO school by choice (the DOs I work with say the same. None of them manipulate in the ER because they don't want to give someone a vertebral artery dissection). They all would have preferred to go to MD programs. For a variety of reasons MD wasn't an option for them. That being said, they are all awesome people and most of them completely competent and some are better than people who went to MD schools.

I've interviewed at 2 DO schools and 1 MD, been accepted to 1 DO. For me, MD will likely not be an option due to my less than stellar verbal score. I did well in undergrad, graduated summa cum laude, aced all my classes, had a 3.83 GPA, 3.91 sGPA, but because of my performance on one section of one exam (verbal), I was rejected from the majority of the MD schools I applied to. Is that one section going to be indicative of the kind of physician I am going to be? I HIGHLY doubt it. As a matter of fact, it will likely have no indication as to the kind of physician I am going to be.

What I am saying is, you never know what your situation might be. Worry about performing to the best of your ability in undergrad and on the MCAT and let the chips fall where they may. I thought I would do really well on the MCAT, and I did on the sciences, but because I did poorly on verbal and could not make up for it (english is my second language), I was forced to apply broadly and to both MD and DO schools.

I do not think that being a DO is in any way inferior to being and MD. Will it be more difficult to land certain residencies as a DO, certainly. But, the quality of education that I will receive as a US medical student will be the same. Getting into medical school is already hard enough as it is and is quickly getting more and more competitive. The majority of people who get into medical school, MD or DO, deserve to be there and are smart, hardworking, intelligent people. So please, don't caught up in the DO vs MD pissing contests that goes on daily on SDN.

👍👍👍

 

[La Presse]

This thread should be renamed "Everyone hates La Presse." MDs and DOs are equally qualified. Yes Yes. I have seen the numbers, anecdotes, and analyses so many times, I get a heartache. But for the sake of my sanity, when push comes to shove, I would take an international MD program over a DO school. This is not due to the degree or practice, but because I have been dealt cards by life that have placed me in a position where my sanity and my life could be compromised. PM me if you really want details...

 

[pre med 2014]

Can't tell if you're trolling or not...

I am saying it is nearly impossible to get a ACGME neurosurgery residency, however, it's my understanding DOs have their own osteopathic neurosurgical association.

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

Probably so. Are we talking about ACGME or AOA?

I wasn't really differentiating. Just getting a residency in your chosen field. Nice and simple.

 

[MedPR]

I am saying it is nearly impossible to get a ACGME neurosurgery residency, however, it's my understanding DOs have their own osteopathic neurosurgical association.

DOs have their own of almost everything.

I wasn't really differentiating. Just getting a residency in your chosen field. Nice and simple.

Well if we're talking about AOA and ACGME, then MD = DO as long as the DO is happy to stay in AOA.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Is ACGME stand for MD residencies? If so, 74% of DOs getting MD residencies seems high

yes for both questions

74% that apply. Not 74% of all graduates.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

+1

It would be interesting to see the matching list after unification. There is a good chance that the statistic will show the match rate for DO and MD to be about equal. This will finally end the dispute about how well DOs match overall.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

It is as if everything I said went through one ear and out the other. Too many people on SDN have a bad superiority complex, the kind of superiority complex that is going to make it impossible for their fellow coworkers (doctors, interns, PA, nurses, techs) to work with them.

I guess medicine sort of creates this with its totem pole approach of moving through the system. Starting out a the bottom as a volunteer/undergraduate, moving up to medical student (still at the bottom of the totem pole), then becoming an intern, then maybe chief resident, and finally and attending.

It is good to try to remain humble, particular to those who have yet to even start medical school. Treat everybody equally. Remember, at the end of the day, everyone is a member of a healthcare team. This is evident where I work, the ER. There is a noble attending who taught me this and everyday when he would arrive at work, he would greet and shake hands with everyone--the nurses, the registration clerks, the orderlies, and the sanitation workers. Think about the patients, not the two letters after your name.

And again, please, refrain from using symbols like > or < and leave the DO vs MD pissing contest alone.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

A note from the SDN moderate titled, Resolving the MD vs DO Debate

-As long as there have been DOs, there has been an ongoing MD vs. DO debate. If you are a premed or medical student, you need to know this:
As a physician you and your colleagues will be too busy to care about where you went to medical school.
-Most physicians judge each-other by the quality of their work and physician and patient feedback.
-Most patients come to you based on patient recommendations and physician referrals.
-Your residency and fellowship training are more important than where you went to medical school.
If you're smart and work hard, you will be a good physician. If you're lazy and don't make an effort, you'll be doing a disservice to your patients. -I've seen plenty of MDs and DOs that are excellent docs and plenty who are downright scary.
-Whatever you feel about MDs or DOs, bashing each other is not going to solve any issues.

MD vs. DO flame-wars are not tolerated at SDN. It is OK to discuss the differences and benefits of each degree. However, personal attacks and "trolling" are not appropriate.