DO w/ Step 1 P/F: When to take Step 2CK, role in securing away rotations

[Kardio]

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As a preface, I know very little about away/audition rotations.

Am I correct that Step 1 scores played a big role in securing away rotations? If so, once the exam is P/F, would it be possible to get a Step 2CK score in time to apply for some of the more desirable aways?

 

[deleted898021]

As a preface, I know very little about away/audition rotations.

Am I correct that Step 1 scores played a big role in securing away rotations? If so, once the exam is P/F, would it be possible to get a Step 2CK score in time to apply for some of the more desirable aways?

Stop worrying and pass first year and your first test..... smh premeds

 

[The Hound]

Stop worrying and pass first year and your first test..... smh premeds

You're right that the incoming class should be focused on learning how to succeed in medical school. But for myself and the other incoming osteopathic students, the blueprint for how we should prepare a competitive residency application has seemingly changed. I think we all have a lot of unanswered questions that need to be addressed, which is why posts like this are popping up. This is all compounded by the fact that everyone on here is telling us how ****ed we are. @Kardio is asking a completely reasonable question, so why are you being so dismissive?

 

[Spectreman]

It’s not realistic to take Step 2 that early. You’re setting up auditions when you’re in the thick of 3rd year. That’d be like taking Step 1 in November of 2nd year, it’s not possible.

If you wanna gun, then gun for top of your class and for LEGIT research for the summer after M1. Go to conferences and junk now so you can meet people and show interest.

 

[Norwood-Sano]

You're right that the incoming class should be focused on learning how to succeed in medical school. But for myself and the other incoming osteopathic students, the blueprint for how we should prepare a competitive residency application has seemingly changed. I think we all have a lot of unanswered questions that need to be addressed, which is why posts like this are popping up. This is all compounded by the fact that everyone on here is telling us how ****ed we are. @Kardio is asking a completely reasonable question, so why are you being so dismissive?

Because we have all been in his/her shoes before and think that knowing everything before starting medical school is going to set us apart from the pack or that we can prepare early. Truth is, once you start first year you're going to be far more focused on keeping up on the material and actually learning medicine that OP's question is not even going to be a thought. I get where Kardio is coming from, really I do, but mark my words; do not stress on things like that now, it will work out.

 

[popopopop]

At least wait until you know how your 3rd year is set-up, then you can at least figure out when you can schedule it.

 

[Kardio]

@FutureDoctor5000 @Norwood-Sano

This situation is much different than someone coming here and asking “should I start Zanki before m1?”

 

[Kardio]

At least wait until you know how your 3rd year is set-up, then you can at least figure out when you can schedule it.

My school has m3 posted online. I’m just trying to figure out if it’s (1) practical and (2) potentially beneficial for getting some of the more competitive away rotations.

 

[popopopop]

My school has m3 posted online. I’m just trying to figure out if it’s (1) practical and (2) potentially beneficial for getting some of the more competitive away rotations.

It's not practical because you'll be doing too much during your rotations. If I take it right now, I'm missing 2-3 of my core rotations still going into the exam. That's why you get a dedicated period to study for this exam. If you want to be successful, develop a strong CV, and kill step1 by getting a strong foundation early.

 

[Kardio]

It's not practical because you'll be doing too much during your rotations. If I take it right now, I'm missing 2-3 of my core rotations still going into the exam. That's why you get a dedicated period to study for this exam. If you want to be successful, develop a strong CV, and kill step1 by getting a strong foundation early.

Thanks for the input. Sounds impractical because I will not have completed the core rotations and gotten the foundational knowledge by the time away apps are open.

I’m DO 2024, so killings Step 1 isn’t part of the formula anymore.

 

[PC89]

Thanks for the input. Sounds impractical because I will not have completed the core rotations and gotten the foundational knowledge by the time away apps are open.

I’m DO 2024, so killings Step 1 isn’t part of the formula anymore.

Studying for Step 2 CK is something that is done in tandem with the core rotations. It makes more sense and clicks when you do the typical prep (anki + UWorld) with the rotation. Studying for Step 2 CK in lieu of Step 1 is setting yourself up for failure mainly because you won't have the background knowledge; also, there is Step 1 material that is tested on Step 2 CK which for some reason everyone is forgetting about.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Am I correct that Step 1 scores played a big role in securing away rotations? If so, once the exam is P/F, would it be possible to get a Step 2CK score in time to apply for some of the more desirable aways?

It depends on the rotation. Some places screen their auditioners, and a lot are just first come first serve. No, you won't have CK back in time.

Stop worrying and pass first year and your first test..... smh premeds

If I had this mentality coming into school I wouldn't have half the app I currently have. People who want to do competitive things need to have a game plan.

Because we have all been in his/her shoes before and think that knowing everything before starting medical school is going to set us apart from the pack or that we can prepare early. Truth is, once you start first year you're going to be far more focused on keeping up on the material and actually learning medicine that OP's question is not even going to be a thought. I get where Kardio is coming from, really I do, but mark my words; do not stress on things like that now, it will work out.

I had 4 pubs before I ever got to dedicated and at least one of those came because of what I did first semester of school. People who want to do competitive things should come into school with a game plan. Knowing how to play the game and then playing it correctly is often the biggest difference in people that match competitively and those that don't. As DO students we aren't given the luxury of being able to solely focus on what is right in front of us, we have to at least have an idea of what our next steps need to be.

I’m DO 2024, so killings Step 1 isn’t part of the formula anymore.

I would still study for it as if it were scored. The biggest predictor of a high Step 2 right now is a high Step 1. You absolutely need to have Step 1 material down cold if you are going to dominate Step 2. I would also suggest trying to get as high of a class rank as you possibly can.

 

[deleted898021]

It depends on the rotation. Some places screen their auditioners, and a lot are just first come first serve. No, you won't have CK back in time.


If I had this mentality coming into school I wouldn't have half the app I currently have. People who want to do competitive things need to have a game plan. If you do.. things will go very badly for you and you will fall behind..


I had 4 pubs before I ever got to dedicated and at least one of those came because of what I did first semester of school. People who want to do competitive things should come into school with a game plan. Knowing how to play the game and then playing it correctly is often the biggest difference in people that match competitively and those that don't. As DO students we aren't given the luxury of being able to solely focus on what is right in front of us, we have to at least have an idea of what our next steps need to be.




I would still study for it as if it were scored. The biggest predictor of a high Step 2 right now is a high Step 1. You absolutely need to have Step 1 material down cold if you are going to dominate Step 2. I would also suggest trying to get as high of a class rank as you possibly can.

I mean I know people who got all
Their pubs in 3rd and 4th year and matched neurosurgery and ortho as a DO... don’t worry about this now OP!

 

[Neopolymath]

I mean I know people who got all
Their pubs in 3rd and 4th year and matched neurosurgery and ortho as a DO... don’t worry about this now OP!

This is terrible advice. Please stop spamming threads with stuff like this.

 

[deleted898021]

This is terrible advice. Please stop spamming threads with stuff like this.

Fine worry about getting research for your ortho residency your first semester of medical school and fail out... Truth is once the semester gets going you wont even remember you wanted to do ortho or derm or whatever.. you will be drowning in ppts and anki/zanki... Tbh literally everyone who matched competitive residencies that I know did clinical/data research or wrote case reports to get their pubs in summer of 1st and in 3rd and 4th year... unless you take a research year or two you wont be able to get bench research pubs, it just wont be done. You wont have the time or ability to do bench research in your first semester or first year, you are foolish if you think you can do that.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

unless you take a research year or two you wont be able to get bench research pubs, it just wont be done. You wont have the time or ability to do bench research in your first semester or first year, you are foolish if you think you can do that.

No one does basic science research..... I also guarantee you I know far more about publishing research in first year than you do.

What's foolish is for you to claim that myself, and a number of other people, can't do what we have already done. We speak from experience.

 

[deleted898021]

No one does basic science research..... I also guarantee you I know far more about publishing research in first year than you do.

What's foolish is for you to claim that myself, and a number of other people, can't do what we have already done. We speak from experience.

Sweet man... I am sure it will help you match general surgery!! Go you!!! Yay!!!!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Sweet man... I am sure it will help you match general surgery!! Go you!!! Yay!!!!

So.... no actual argument. Just red herring comments. Face it bro, you're out of your element trying to give advice about this stuff.

 

[Neopolymath]

Fine worry about getting research for your ortho residency your first semester of medical school and fail out... Truth is once the semester gets going you wont even remember you wanted to do ortho or derm or whatever.. you will be drowning in ppts and anki/zanki... Tbh literally everyone who matched competitive residencies that I know did clinical/data research or wrote case reports to get their pubs in summer of 1st and in 3rd and 4th year... unless you take a research year or two you wont be able to get bench research pubs, it just wont be done. You wont have the time or ability to do bench research in your first semester or first year, you are foolish if you think you can do that.

No one said anything about bench research. Why do you think you are talking to people in these threads that didn't already do what you are saying is foolish? It's like you think only ms1s are in these threads. If I listened to people like you (usually only from non-SDN sources) I would have had such a worse experience. What year are you? You speak with the authority of a resident but the naivety of an M1. What is the deal here?


Edit: There are no secrets to succeeding in school now with SDN and reddit. That said, it's hard to achieve ambitious goals and a lot of people don't have the same goals as you do. You seem to have a real issue with anyone being ambitious. If you don't like posts about how to match into competitive programs or competitive fields then maybe stop spamming threads on that topic. Do you think OP is too stupid to realize he must work hard in class first and foremost? Give these new M1s some credit. Maybe you are jaded. Idk but I hope you do something fun off line and get centered again. Good luck.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No one said anything about bench research. Why do you think you are talking to people in these threads that didn't already do what you are saying is foolish? It's like you think only ms1s are in these threads. If I listened to people like you (usually only from non-SDN sources) I would have had such a worse experience. What year are you? You speak with the authority of a resident but the naivety of an M1. What is the deal here?

M1

 

[Neopolymath]

M1

We did have a few people that are m2 and m3 posters now that were in the same headspace not that long ago but board studying got them haha.

 

[sab3156]

This is terrible advice. Please stop spamming threads with stuff like this.

I am wondering why spam posts that lack any atom's worth of credibility are fair game on SDN.

 

[Scrubs101]

Fine worry about getting research for your ortho residency your first semester of medical school and fail out... Truth is once the semester gets going you wont even remember you wanted to do ortho or derm or whatever.. you will be drowning in ppts and anki/zanki... Tbh literally everyone who matched competitive residencies that I know did clinical/data research or wrote case reports to get their pubs in summer of 1st and in 3rd and 4th year... unless you take a research year or two you wont be able to get bench research pubs, it just wont be done. You wont have the time or ability to do bench research in your first semester or first year, you are foolish if you think you can do that.

I found it way easier to do research in m1-2 than now in 3rd year. Anything not a case report or review article wont be published till post-application M4 if youre lucky (heck even most of the stuff i worked on in M2 isnt published yet). Also if youre like most DOs at small community hospitals actually finding attendings or residents doing research worth your time can be more challenging than it seems (all the residents at my hospital are all either on some big QI project together and not looking for med students, or have already done their 1 required research req for the year). Anytime i see something worthy of a case report its shipped to another institution for higher level or care or i cant find a resident or attending that wants to oversee me do all the work for it.
This is all anecdotal and may not be as hard for other people though. But most upperclassman (with the exception of one) that told me “youll be fine to just put off research till 3rd year” currently have no research and arent going for something competitive.

Theres also something to be said about the connections built for doing research early on. If you arent struggling to survive in m1-2 should absolutely dedicate whatever time you can to research if youre interested.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I found it way easier to do research in m1-2 than now in 3rd year. Anything not a case report or review article wont be published till post-application M4 if youre lucky (heck even most of the stuff i worked on in M2 isnt published yet). Also if youre like most DOs at small community hospitals actually finding attendings or residents doing research worth your time can be more challenging than it seems (all the residents at my hospital are all either on some big QI project together and not looking for med students, or have already done their 1 required research req for the year). Anytime i see something worthy of a case report its shipped to another institution for higher level or care or i cant find a resident or attending that wants to oversee me do all the work for it.
This is all anecdotal and may not be as hard for other people though. But most upperclassman (with the exception of one) that told me “youll be fine to just put off research till 3rd year” currently have no research and arent going for something competitive.

Theres also something to be said about the connections built for doing research early on. If you arent struggling to survive in m1-2 should absolutely dedicate whatever time you can to research if youre interested.

This is great advice OP. I fell into the trap of putting off research until third year due to advice from upperclassmen. Now I’m finishing 3rd year with no research to my name. My 3rd year experience is nearly identical to the one I’ve quoted above.

The caveat being that I greatly struggled to survive the first two years. I don’t think I could have incorporated research and survived.

 

[sab3156]

This is great advice OP. I fell into the trap of putting off research until third year due to advice from upperclassmen. Now I’m finishing 3rd year with no research to my name. My 3rd year experience is nearly identical to the one I’ve quoted above.

The caveat being that I greatly struggled to survive the first two years. I don’t think I could have incorporated research and survived.

A few people I know in M3 are just starting to realize that they pushed off research for far too long and are now struggling to figure out how to become competitive for the fields they wanted. They got bad advice from people who said to wait until 3rd year, and are considering taking a research year now. It sucks because they go to MD schools and they could have done plenty of research at their home programs, and now they have to take a research year. What a waste of time. The price to pay for bad advice...

No one said anything about bench research. Why do you think you are talking to people in these threads that didn't already do what you are saying is foolish? It's like you think only ms1s are in these threads. If I listened to people like you (usually only from non-SDN sources) I would have had such a worse experience. What year are you? You speak with the authority of a resident but the naivety of an M1. What is the deal here?

I think when people don’t have the same opportunities, they try to make things seem better and make themselves feel better by downplaying the importance of doing those things. I can’t really come up with any other reason why someone would give such terrible advice to others.

 

[Dr.JMoon]

@AnatomyGrey12 I just want to say thank you for all the advice you share here in SDN, I am sure other people feel the same way. Looking back now, what would your game plan be if you wanted to do something competitive and you were a DO? What would be your objectives for M1,summer,M2, etc? Thanks a lot.

 

[Cath Up]

@AnatomyGrey12 I just want to say thank you for all the advice you share here in SDN, I am sure other people feel the same way. Looking back now, what would your game plan be if you wanted to do something competitive and you were a DO? What would be your objectives for M1,summer,M2, etc? Thanks a lot.

When should I start zanki?

If I want a high step 1 score? My guess is January of M1, when I actually have some sort of foundation to remember anything.

forums.studentdoctor.net

Post #3

 

[Dr.JMoon]

When should I start zanki?

If I want a high step 1 score? My guess is January of M1, when I actually have some sort of foundation to remember anything.

forums.studentdoctor.net

Post #3

Yeah that's a great plan about studying, but landing a spot into a competitive residency is way more complicated as I am sure you already know. I would be more interested to hear about when to start research, what kind of research(in the field of interest or any field), when you should start making connections and how (attending conferences, regularly show up lets say in M&M Conferences they host? etc), you know the wildcards in this game. I know it's a loaded question and I assure you that I researched around here in SDN and found some info but I was looking for a fresh opinion from someone knowledgeable and about to go through the match. Thnks for the info though.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

@AnatomyGrey12 I just want to say thank you for all the advice you share here in SDN, I am sure other people feel the same way. Looking back now, what would your game plan be if you wanted to do something competitive and you were a DO? What would be your objectives for M1,summer,M2, etc? Thanks a lot.

Find a nearby residency in your specialty of interest, if possible, and reach out to the program coordinator asking to be put into contact with any residents or attendings that are doing research. I’d do this maybe towards the end of first semester beginning of second.

Another option is to look into summer research fellowships. You have to apply for these and they can range in competitiveness, but if you land one it’s probably the most sure way to get solid outcomes.

 

[Epilepsy365]

I found it way easier to do research in m1-2 than now in 3rd year. Anything not a case report or review article wont be published till post-application M4 if youre lucky (heck even most of the stuff i worked on in M2 isnt published yet). Also if youre like most DOs at small community hospitals actually finding attendings or residents doing research worth your time can be more challenging than it seems (all the residents at my hospital are all either on some big QI project together and not looking for med students, or have already done their 1 required research req for the year). Anytime i see something worthy of a case report its shipped to another institution for higher level or care or i cant find a resident or attending that wants to oversee me do all the work for it.
This is all anecdotal and may not be as hard for other people though. But most upperclassman (with the exception of one) that told me “youll be fine to just put off research till 3rd year” currently have no research and arent going for something competitive.

Theres also something to be said about the connections built for doing research early on. If you arent struggling to survive in m1-2 should absolutely dedicate whatever time you can to research if youre interested.

Ditto. Support for a noob to get researching going at most DOs is nonexistent.

It’s a joke in comparison to ACGME institutions. After rotating through a few places, there’s so much support at these ACGME places that any passionate student with a pulse can get some scholarly work on their CV. Meanwhile, it’s like chasing a mythical unicorn in the DO world.

For readers out there, I’m not a nerd who’s all about this stuff. But it’s essential to get something on your CV especially since more program PDs are using it as a filter for residency outside of primary care.

 

[Cath Up]

Ditto. Support for a noob to get researching going at most DOs is nonexistent.

It’s a joke in comparison to ACGME institutions. After rotating through a few places, there’s so much support at these ACGME places that any passionate student with a pulse can get some scholarly work on their CV. Meanwhile, it’s like chasing a mythical unicorn in the DO world.

For readers out there, I’m not a nerd who’s all about this stuff. But it’s essential to get something on your CV especially since more program PDs are using it as a filter for residency outside of primary care.

Lots of reasons to not go the DO route with established and recent issues, but being able to find research shouldn't be a huge factor. If you want research, you apply for summer internships, ask faculty, ask classmates, use former connections, or just reach out to faculty at the nearest university and express interest/passion and ask if you can get involved. I acknowledge there's less support, and that's pretty terrible for programs producing physicians, in my opinion (but it is common at DO schools). Everyone at my program that I am aware of that wanted to do research, has found research. It's not rocket surgery.