Do White applicants have better educational status then Asian applicants?

[dentstd]

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Glad that's done with. Now, let's talk about Hispanics and Native Americans.

 

[xxxTheDonxxx]

Glad that's done with. Now, let's talk about Hispanics and Native Americans.

here's something to look at

" District attorneys offices are engaging in reverse discrimination against Asian-Americans. 10.2% of law school graduates are Asian-American (see Law Schools), but district attorney offices hire only a few Asian-Americans as tokens. Many judges are former prosecutors, so district attorneys' reverse discrimination also prevents Asian-Americans from obtaining the training to become a judge."

it's everywhere not just dent school

 

[TheNobleTooth]

It's a stereotype that most Americans have probably internalized. When an interviewer sees an Asian American applicant, this is probably the first thing he/she thinks.

I agree that Asian Americans are not given a lot of preference in terms of admissions to dental school, med school, law school and other professional schools. I'm Korean-American, so I know what others here are saying about us Asians not getting the love by dental school adcoms.

First of all, a lot of Asian Americans have high stats when it comes to GPA and DAT scores. We're literally pitted against one another in the applicant pool.

I also want to point out an example where my two Asian friends got turned down by Iowa and WVU dental schools. One of my two friends graduated from Princeton with a 3.4 overall GPA, and got turned down by Iowa. However, his white friend got an interview offer from Iowa while his overall GPA was slightly lower, and his DAT scores were lower, not to mention a 14 on the QR section.

The other Asian friend (he's actually Pakistani), didn't get into any dental schools last year, despite him spending lots of hours shadowing and working at various dental offices. His overall GPA is a 3.78 and his science GPA is 3.97. Hopefully the dental schools show him some love this cycle.

 

[tncekm]

if you are as passionate on this topic as I am...go here for a better stats comparision http://www.asianam.org/sap.htm

or here http://www.asianam.org/statistics reverse.htm

reserve discrimination is not an illusion

Oh, I don't disagree with reverse discrimination existing. I never said such a thing. I just don't think asians are being punished by our educational institutions. IMO I think they're essentially lumped into the white category.

Anyway, I like that "stop being a sap page" 😉

 

[tncekm]

I agree that Asian Americans are not given a lot of preference in terms of admissions to dental school, med school, law school and other professional schools. I'm Korean-American, so I know what others here are saying about us Asians not getting the love by dental school adcoms.

First of all, a lot of Asian Americans have high stats when it comes to GPA and DAT scores. We're literally pitted against one another in the applicant pool.

I also want to point out an example where my two Asian friends got turned down by Iowa and WVU dental schools. One of my two friends graduated from Princeton with a 3.4 overall GPA, and got turned down by Iowa. However, his white friend got an interview offer from Iowa while his overall GPA was slightly lower, and his DAT scores were lower, not to mention a 14 on the QR section.

The other Asian friend (he's actually Pakistani), didn't get into any dental schools last year, despite him spending lots of hours shadowing and working at various dental offices. His overall GPA is a 3.78 and his science GPA is 3.97. Hopefully the dental schools show him some love this cycle.

Things like that happen, but N=2 is very insignificant. Honestly, they could have bombed their interviews and not been able to have objectively seen it.

And, I just outlined (on the previous page) there was no major difference in applicants accepted versus those who applied (for med school at least) between whites and asians, who, in general (and only for those who applied to medical school) have very similar scores on MCAT and close GPAs.

I opened the MSAR, took the numbers and did that stats. Its not really much of an issue with white v asian. They're essentially lumped in the same category. Sorry asians, you're just white-boys when it comes to admissions. lol.

 

[cdmOMR]

sorry about the cat analogy!

It's cool were friends again... 😀


see admins....this is what happened when you take all of our fun threads away! people get all heated about stupid crap

btw...i really want to know what is meant by an overrepresented minority?😕

 

[tncekm]

Opposite of underrepresented. This is in proportion to the total population. Blacks make up somewhere around 13% of the population, but they're essentially non-existant in many academic programs. Asians makeup about 4.3% of the total population and they're at ridiculously high numbers. That is a underrepresented minority v overrepresented minority.

 

[TheNobleTooth]

Things like that happen, but N=2 is very insignificant. Honestly, they could have bombed their interviews and not been able to have objectively seen it.

And, I just outlined (on the previous page) there was no major difference in applicants accepted versus those who applied (for med school at least) between whites and asians, who, in general (and only for those who applied to medical school) have very similar scores on MCAT and close GPAs.

I opened the MSAR, took the numbers and did that stats. Its not really much of an issue with white v asian. They're essentially lumped in the same category. Sorry asians, you're just white-boys when it comes to admissions. lol.

It's blatant that you're ignorant and don't have an open mind to listen to other people's concern.

Ni aju bahboh gatun yankee ib ni da.

 

[pine88]

Sorry asians, you're just white-boys when it comes to admissions. lol.

Even if we lack a penis? Bummer...

 

[tncekm]

It's blatant that you're ignorant and don't have an open mind to listen to other people's concern.

Ni aju bahboh gatun yankee ib ni da.

LOL. Is this "armoredtooth" reincarnate?

Listen, bud, just because you had two friends who go rejected doesn't mean that all asians are at a disadvantage to whites. I provided stats on the previous page.

Oh and Ni aju bahboh gatun yankee ib ni da yabba dabba doo to you too.

 

[dizzle23x]

maybe they are just ahead of our time but i think War said it best in 1975...

"The color of your skin don't matter to me
As long as we can live in harmony

Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?"

 

[OrangeStorm]

One published research has studied that the RC score on DAT as a predictor for tudent's performance in 1st 2 years of dental school. So I guess RC score is important when adcom view your application. But what if you are the first generation immigrant? English is your second language. Are we screwed?

 

[tncekm]

One published research has studied that the RC score on DAT as a predictor for tudent's performance in 1st 2 years of dental school. So I guess RC score is important when adcom view your application. But what if you are the first generation immigrant? English is your second language. Are we screwed?

Not screwed, its jsut a bit more difficult because of the language barrier.

 

[pine88]

LOL. Is this "armoredtooth" reincarnate?

Speaking of which, where is armoredtooth these days? I haven't gotten my share of &**&%$##$^&&** lately 😛

 

[tncekm]

Speaking of which, where is armoredtooth these days? I haven't gotten my share of &**&%$##$^&&** lately 😛

He must have finally gotten an interview...after the interview, I'm sure he was put on a black-list for admissions and now he's so pissed and so focused on sending tough guy emails to various admissions people, he just doesn't have time for SDN 😀

 

[cdmOMR]

Opposite of underrepresented. This is in proportion to the total population. Blacks make up somewhere around 13% of the population, but they're essentially non-existant in many academic programs. Asians makeup about 4.3% of the total population and they're at ridiculously high numbers. That is a underrepresented minority v overrepresented minority.

hmm....thats what i thought it was

 

[zthang]

One published research has studied that the RC score on DAT as a predictor for tudent's performance in 1st 2 years of dental school. So I guess RC score is important when adcom view your application. But what if you are the first generation immigrant? English is your second language. Are we screwed?

The doctor/professor interviewing me at Case said that he considrered RC the most important section of the DAT.

 

[fightingspirit]

so we blew away on almost every other section and our gpa is probably higher than most yet we are not getting as much love? Once again, you're not taking gpa into account. People are overlooking that fact that we are over representing in the health business that's why they're not taking as much because of affirmative action. Look at the big picture. 😴
~What pisses me off is that we struggle just like every other minority, and yet we get no cigars. The Japanese got thrown into concentration camps, and the chinese got their ponytails cut of by ancient rednecks. WFT...no justice.

about 1/4 of many american dental and perhaps medical school classes are asian students despite the fact that asians dont make up nearly as much, percentage wise, of the american population. as a matter fact, i will say that asians are way over represented in the health professions......

as far as blowing away others in terms of academic stats, so what? i think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would tell you that admissions into health professional schools is primarily dependent on stats. social skills and personability are paramount in a peoples profession.

i think it was wrong to put the japs in camps but that was the mentality of the times. if it were americans in japan, the japanese would have done worse. stepping back in time, japan is notorious for its colonial history: the brits colonized to reap resources. the french colonized to spread french culture and language. the japanese colonized to enslave.

and NO, you have not struggled as other minorities. you did not come here as slaves and you did not come here crossing the border illegally or swimming across the gulf. your parents came here, established small business, garnered american dollars, moved into middle class suburbs, put you in good suburban public schools and then sent you to med school so that you can make tons of money tht will be judiciously and very conservatively spent. in fact, asians in america are doing better than every other minority, including the poor native americans. your girls are also intermarrying with whites from the middle class, they are becoming hollywood actresses and business owners. count your blessings and not only justice is on your side but so is luck

 

[EyeAmCommi]

and NO, you have not struggled as other minorities. you did not come here as slaves and you did not come here crossing the border illegally or swimming across the gulf. your parents came here, established small business, garnered american dollars, moved into middle class suburbs, put you in good suburban public schools and then sent you to med school so that you can make tons of money tht will be judiciously and very conservatively spent. in fact, asians in america are doing better than every other minority, including the poor native americans. your girls are also intermarrying with whites from the middle class, they are becoming hollywood actresses and business owners. count your blessings and not only justice is on your side but so is luck

Ignorance at its worst. Please quit posting, you've lost all credibility in this thread.

For an SDNer who has been on as long as you have, I'm surprised you haven't been banned.

 

[tncekm]

Ignorance at its worst. Please quit posting, you've lost all credibility in this thread.

Care to expand on this?

 

[EyeAmCommi]

Sorry asians, you're just white-boys when it comes to admissions. lol.

Awww, if only that would be true there wouldn't be an issue. We are treated worse than white males when it comes to admissions.

 

[EyeAmCommi]

Care to expand on this?

So, you would agree with fightingspirits claim that Asians are successful so therefore Asians should shut up and stand by as Asians are discriminated against?

I will gladly explain if SDN is willing to listen.

 

[tncekm]

Awww, if only that would be true there wouldn't be an issue. We are treated worse than white males when it comes to admissions.

Well, I'm sure predent is similar to premed, and as far as premed goes the asian applicants are pretty similar to white applicants overall, with asians usually being a tad stronger in the sciences and the whites being stronger in the verbal reasonining on the MCAT.

I did some basic comparison stats, t-test via excel, on data from the MSAR on asian and white acceptance with respect to total applicants from each of the two populations, and their acceptance rates were statistically almost identical. The only noticeable difference was with the URM's, whose acceptance rates with respect to stats were significantly different.

If you want, just grab a copy of the MSAR or something similar yourself. The info is easy to get a hold of.

 

[tncekm]

So, you would agree with fightingspirits claim that Asians are successful so therefore Asians should shut up and stand by as Asians are discriminated against?

I will gladly explain if SDN is willing to listen.

I wouldn't say anybody should just take discrimination. I am displeased with the fact that I am treated unfairly with admissions. Asians definitely aren't treated special when it comes to admissions, but I just haven't seen any qualitative evidence to suggest they're screwed even worse than whites are. Everything I've seen suggests they get screwed just about as bad. If it is more or less, its hardly enough to make a difference.

 

[EyeAmCommi]

Well, I'm sure predent is similar to premed, and as far as premed goes the asian applicants are pretty similar to white applicants overall, with asians usually being a tad stronger in the sciences and the whites being stronger in the verbal reasonining on the MCAT.

You sound like a reasonable person. So I have no qualms about letting you come to your own conclusion about what I see in the scenario that you have presented me.

Asians score higher on the sciences which means that Asians score higher on 2 out of 3 parts of the MCAT. Now, you said that whites have an equal acceptance rate to Asians. But how? Again, Asians score higher overall on the MCAT than whites because Asians score higher on 2 out of 3 parts of the MCAT! Asian GPAs are the ~same as whites that that's not a factor right? So why are there EQUAL #s of Asians getting in as whites (who score lower on the sciences as you have stated yourself).

Now lets take this further. How does a medical school stem the # of Asian students in their class for the sake of diversity? Focus on the verbal section. It's as simple as that.

 

[EyeAmCommi]

I wouldn't say anybody should just take discrimination. I am displeased with the fact that I am treated unfairly with admissions. Asians definitely aren't treated special when it comes to admissions, but I just haven't seen any qualitative evidence to suggest they're screwed even worse than whites are. Everything I've seen suggests they get screwed just about as bad. If it is more or less, its hardly enough to make a difference.

The evidence is something you already have. Its in the numbers.

 

[tncekm]

Well, actually, they "tend" to score higher in the sciences by usually small margins. And, its not uncommon for asians to actually score lower on the sciences (as a group) than whites. This difference is also usually very small (usually 0.2 to 0.6 MCAT points). The difference in verbal reasoning is usually pretty significant (often 1.5 or so points).

Now, keep in mind this doesn't mean that each asian who comes in is 0.2-0.6pts better on all science portions and the white guy is better on all verbal portions. This means that chances are, on a person to person basis, the differences in scores are almost entirely insignificant statistically, let alone in the eyes of the people responsible for admissions. In other words, if you calculated the probability that an asian would score a 30 on an MCAT and then a white guy, the probability would be extremely close to equal because of the insignificant difference in scores.

Lets put this into perspective with an analogy. Imagine person A, a baseball player, bats an average of 0.400 and person B bats an average of 0.398. Would you be worried that person B is going to be outperformed on a game to game basis by person A? I know I wouldn't because the numbers are ridiculously close.

 

[tncekm]

The evidence is something you already have. Its in the numbers.

No, you're assuming that because a very small differene in MCAT performance on average between two populations will make a very big difference in acceptance and that that difference will be directly reflected. That's not the way it works.

I couldn't adequately explain the concept of probability as it pertains to this particular situation, I wish I could so I could explain myself better. If the differences were large, then there would be a difference in acceptance rates. But, the differences are relatively small.

 

[cdmOMR]

No, you're assuming that because a very small differene in MCAT performance on average between two populations will make a very big difference in acceptance and that that difference will be directly reflected. That's not the way it works.

I couldn't adequately explain the concept of probability as it pertains to this particular situation, I wish I could so I could explain myself better. If the differences were large, then there would be a difference in acceptance rates. But, the differences are relatively small.

That and the MCAT/DAT only makes up one part of the application. I think the variences from applicant to applicant in the other portions voids out the small test score differences.

 

[tncekm]

That and the MCAT/DAT only makes up one part of the application. I think the variences from applicant to applicant in the other portions voids out the small test score differences.

Well, considering verbal reasoning for the MCAT is a highly considered portion, and is probably somewhat representative of your communication abilites, it could level out the playing field a little.

I'm not going to deny that I'd expect asian acceptances to be "slightly" higher than white acceptances, and was suprised when they weren't exactly as I would have predicted, but considering the difference in acceptance over the past four years was statistically pretty insignificant, I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

[sejin8642]

All right guys. It's all my fault and I'm sorry. My post definately have led you to mispoint that I didn't want(All I want was some datas that are good determinants in order to choose dental schools). Now I want to know how to delete my post here. I don't see any delete button on the site

 

[tncekm]

All right guys. It's all my fault and I'm sorry. My post definately have led you to mispoint that I didn't want(All I want was some datas that are good determinants in order to choose dental schools). Now I want to know how to delete my post here. I don't see any delete button on the site

Look what you started, @$$ hole! 😀 jk man hahaa....its not your fault. 🙂

 

[kappa505]

Lets put this into perspective with an analogy. Imagine person A, a baseball player, bats an average of 0.400 and person B bats an average of 0.398. Would you be worried that person B is going to be outperformed on a game to game basis by person A? I know I wouldn't because the numbers are ridiculously close.


Have you ever been to Vegas? I would bet on person A. Over the long run (which is represented by high volumes of applications or bats in this case) Person A would be way ahead. Think about 100,000 applications. That is enough to make a difference even statistically.

 

[tncekm]

Yes, as you approach infinity there is a differnce between person A and person B. But, we're talking on a hit to hit basis, we're not approaching infinity here.

Just like on an interview to interview basis with medical/dental/vet/etc admissions.

 

[dentstd]

Hmm, if asians are scoring 0.x points lower on the RC, on average... and the RC is designed to keep asians out of dental school, does that mean that the entire sciences and QR sections are designed to keep whites, hispanics, blacks, and american indians out of dental school?

More interestingly, is the entire DAT designed to keep women out of dental school? Intriqueing.

I miss the dating thread. This racial bashing isn't as fun as hooking up with the ladies thread.

 

[tncekm]

Hmm, if asians are scoring 0.x points lower on the RC, on average... and the RC is designed to keep asians out of dental school, does that mean that the entire sciences and QR sections are designed to keep whites, hispanics, blacks, and american indians out of dental school?

More interestingly, is the entire DAT designed to keep women out of dental school? Intriqueing.

I think you're on to something here.... 😀

 

[kappa505]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, as you approach infinity there is a differnce between person A and person B. But, we're talking on a hit to hit basis, we're not approaching infinity here.

Just like on an interview to interview basis with medical/dental/vet/etc admissions.

Talk to Vegas about those odds and approaching infinity. We are talking about completely realistic numbers. Think about the house odds at black jack.

 

[EyeAmCommi]

Hmm, if asians are scoring 0.x points lower on the RC, on average... and the RC is designed to keep asians out of dental school, does that mean that the entire sciences and QR sections are designed to keep whites, hispanics, blacks, and american indians out of dental school?

More interestingly, is the entire DAT designed to keep women out of dental school? Intriqueing.

I miss the dating thread. This racial bashing isn't as fun as hooking up with the ladies thread.

You're misguided. No portion of any exam was ever designed to keep anyone out of anything; except idiots 😛 . The admissions committee's focus on a particular section does.

 

[tncekm]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, as you approach infinity there is a differnce between person A and person B. But, we're talking on a hit to hit basis, we're not approaching infinity here.

Just like on an interview to interview basis with medical/dental/vet/etc admissions.

Talk to Vegas about those odds and approaching infinity. We are talking about completely realistic numbers. Think about the house odds at black jack.

I understand very well how vegas works. I did my time in stats 😀 Consequently, I don't gamble and never will. lol

 

[kappa505]

Someday, hopefully you might have alot of money to gamble.

 

[dentstd]

You're misguided. No portion of any exam was ever designed to keep anyone out of anything. The admissions committee's focus on a particular section does.

Okay Mr. UCLA, before throwing around insults like that, please be sure the response you're criticizing isn't in fact facetious and sarcastic. Cuz if it is, then you're gonna look really, really silly.

 

[EyeAmCommi]

Okay Mr. UCLA, before throwing around insults like that, please be sure the response you're criticizing isn't in fact facetious and sarcastic. Cuz if it is, then you're gonna look really, really silly.

Oh right. Silly me😛

 

[tncekm]

Someday, hopefully you might have alot of money to gamble.

Yes, hopefully one day 🙂 But, I won't gamble it, I will however take well calculated risks, with stocks, bonds, etc 😀

 

[kappa505]

Are you a republican? becasue it sounds as though you are a fiscal conservative with all that well calculated risk talk.

 

[tncekm]

Are you a republican? becasue it sounds as though you are a fiscal conservative with all that well calculated risk talk.

I'd call myself a libertarian if I had to be lumped up into a group. I'm socially very liberal, fiscally conservative, but I do have my exceptions in both categories as well.

What about yourself?

 

[kappa505]

Interesting Question.

 

[kappa505]

I might be a little afraid to start discussing politics with all of the anger that comes out on this site...........Then again it might be fun. If you really want to know then PM me and we can type.

 

[tncekm]

I might be a little afraid to start discussing politics with all of the anger that comes out on this site...........Then again it might be fun. If you really want to know then PM me and we can type.

Meh, discussing more politics is not a top priority of mine at the moment. I've been stuck on this forum for a couple weeks now and have been VERY UNPRODUCTIVE. Its the end of the semester and I'm letting my grades slip at the last minute. Defiitely not good 😛 I had all weekend and only review notes from two lectures from a physiology course, from two weeks ago. lol.

 

[kappa505]

Good luck, phys is difficult for most people.

 

[tncekm]

This class isn't bad for me. I've got a good memory, and can conceptualize well.

My biggest problem was I expected this class to be as simple as many of my other courses, and I didn't study. So, the very first test I took I did verrrrry bad. I opened the test booklety and it was about 7 pages of all paragraph format questions. That, and I underestimated the lab-writeups they required. I wish I knew in advance. Many of hte other students did and did okay.

I got a 40% on my first exam and a 65% on my first lab writeup (has to be pub-med style paper, its ridiculous). I've aced everything since then (labs: 100% + 94%, exam: 95%), but I"m still fighting to recover that first set of bad grades. All of my other courses are going pretty well. I just never expected to have such a hard physiology test, and it screwed me up all semester because I made a stupid mistake 🙁