DO with good comlex, bad usmle score

[IlovePediatrics]

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Hi all, I am in need of some advice, so please share your thoughts.

I received a 533 on my comlex level 1 but unfortunately took a risk and took the usmle step 1 and scored <195 but passed. Do I have any chances at applying to allopathic/dual accredited programs or have I shut that door? If I apply solely to DO internal medicine programs, would I have any difficulty down the road when applying for a fellowship?

 

[cliquesh]

Hi all, I am in need of some advice, so please share your thoughts.

I received a 533 on my comlex level 1 but unfortunately took a risk and took the usmle step 1 and scored <195 but passed. Do I have any chances at applying to allopathic/dual accredited programs or have I shut that door? If I apply solely to DO internal medicine programs, would I have any difficulty down the road when applying for a fellowship?

Do you know what you want to do? I'm guessing internal medicine. If that's the case, you should know many IM programs hold more weight on step 2. I have a classmate who got a 204 on step 1 and a 250something on step 2. He did well on both comlexs, however. I think he applied to about 30 internal medicine programs and he got 20something invites. Most of his invites are at strong university programs. He even got an invite at one of the harvards. So, no, I don't think it's game over for you. Just don't **** up step 2. Aim for a 230+ and you'll be fine.

There are a decent number of AOA cardiology fellowships, but that's about it. You probably could match an Acgme pulm, rheum, or endo fellowship coming from an AOA program. Youre not going to match an Acgme cardiology, GI, or hem/onc fellowship from an AOA residency.

 

[DrWBD]

Hi all, I am in need of some advice, so please share your thoughts.

I received a 533 on my comlex level 1 but unfortunately took a risk and took the usmle step 1 and scored <195 but passed. Do I have any chances at applying to allopathic/dual accredited programs or have I shut that door? If I apply solely to DO internal medicine programs, would I have any difficulty down the road when applying for a fellowship?

Yes, you still have a chance.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Do you know what you want to do? I'm guessing internal medicine. If that's the case, you should know many IM programs hold more weight on step 2. I have a classmate who got a 204 on step 1 and a 250something on step 2. He did well on both comlexs, however. I think he applied to about 30 internal medicine programs and he got 20something invites. Most of his invites are at strong university programs. He even got an invite at one of the harvards. So, no, I don't think it's game over for you. Just don't **** up step 2. Aim for a 230+ and you'll be fine.

There are a decent number of AOA cardiology fellowships, but that's about it. You probably could match an Acgme pulm, rheum, or endo fellowship coming from an AOA program. Youre not going to match an Acgme cardiology, GI, or hem/onc fellowship from an AOA residency.

Not more weight, but maybe more likely to allow a good step2 to compensate step1.

If you check the PD survey all programs, IM included, list step 1 higher than 2.

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[DO Anes]

This is the problem with advice students get from their schools. Who is telling them 533 is a good COMLEX? For competitive fields, many ACGME programs (those that still look at the COMLEX), cut off interviews at 600. Agree with the comments about part 2. Unclear how the ACGME merger will affect this.

 

[Mass Effect]

This is the problem with advice students get from their schools. Who is telling them 533 is a good COMLEX? For competitive fields, many ACGME programs (those that still look at the COMLEX), cut off interviews at 600. Agree with the comments about part 2. Unclear how the ACGME merger will affect this.

Why are you putting down his score? He's applying to IM. I think a 533, which is above the national average, is good for IM. It may not be up to "SDN standards" where everyone gets a 750, but it's good.

 

[deleted245139]

Why are you putting down his score? He's applying to IM. I think a 533, which is above the national average, is good for IM. It may not be up to "SDN standards" where everyone gets a 750, but it's good.

It sounds harsh, but he isn't trying to belittle the score. That's the reality at some programs. I've pointed this out in other threads but:
U. Michigan Anesthesia Minimum Score Cuttoffs: 200 USMLE/600 COMLEX
That's one SD BLOW the mean for the USMLE and one SD ABOVE the mean for COMLEX. That's just the reality. Is it like that everywhere... I sure hope not, but then again at some programs that's life.

You're not in a bind though. Smash Step 2 USMLE and you will at least have a good foothold

 

[Mass Effect]

It sounds harsh, but he isn't trying to belittle the score. That's the reality at some programs. I've pointed this out in other threads but:
U. Michigan Anesthesia Minimum Score Cuttoffs: 200 USMLE/600 COMLEX
That's one SD BLOW the mean for the USMLE and one SD ABOVE the mean for COMLEX. That's just the reality. Is it like that everywhere... I sure hope not, but then again at some programs that's life.

You're not in a bind though. Smash Step 2 USMLE and you will at least have a good foothold

For me, it's all about context. The OP isn't asking about anesthesia at U. Michigan. He's asking about internal medicine anywhere. His post simply asks if he's shut the door completely. In his case, with his aspirations, I don't think it's necessary to get into all the nitty gritties of what various other programs expect for various other specialties. It just isn't relevant.

 

[deleted245139]

depends on what sort of IM programs he/she is looking into I suppose. I agree, I gave an apples/oranges comparison, but theire both fruit. The reality is that MOST programs are unsure of how to interpret our COMLEX. Hell, look at that conversion calculator floating around. It's worthless, but it's used. 533 can be a decent score at an IM program who is 1. very familiar with COMLEX, 2. a low tier Allo IM prog, 3. both.

Youre right though, based on the question asked: ANY internal med program anywhere? You have a shot. Doors aren't closed. I guess I was trying to broaden the discussion (even though it's a topic that has been beaten to death haha) 🙂

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I agree that the OP can do much better if he aces step 2, but I think his COMLEX score will basically be irrelevant to allo programs.. An above average COMLEX level 1 score is unlikely to offset the fact that he has a well below average USMLE step 1 score in the eyes of PDs etc.

If the OP wants osteopathic IM, then his COMLEX score is absolutely fine.

 

[S3S4]

I agree that the OP can do much better if he aces step 2, but I think his COMLEX score will basically be irrelevant to allo programs.. An above average COMLEX level 1 score is unlikely to offset the fact that he has a well below average USMLE step 1 score in the eyes of PDs etc.

If the OP wants osteopathic IM, then his COMLEX score is absolutely fine.[/QUOTE]

Agree with this.

OP: To be honest, I would ignore people who give you unwarranted optimism regarding your chances at strong university ACGME IM programs. Your COMLEX score is just above average, which is fine for AOA IM programs as dozitgetchani pointed out. Like he said, ACGME program directors obviously weight USMLE much more than COMLEX, and this would definitely hinder your chances at strong ACGME programs, even if you rocked USMLE step 2. There are definitely lower-tier ACGME university-based programs that would not count you out though, even with a very low USMLE. I would ask your advisors if they could point you to such programs.
The fact is that even most strong mid-tier ACGME programs do not accept DOs (look at resident profiles for a better idea), and it takes great scores on both USMLE's even to get into mid-tier ACGME programs.
I wouldn't let this get you down, because the fact is that almsot ANY university-based program will give you good training.
To your other question: yes, doing a DO IM residency will limit your chances at an ACGME fellowship

 

[bloodsucker]

To your other question: yes, doing a DO IM residency will limit your chances at an ACGME fellowship

--->Do you think this will still be true after the accreditation merger?

I ask b/c I'm in a similar situation as the OP. (610/227 comlex/usmle), but I'm interested in anesthesiology with hopefully a pain management fellowship in the future.

 

[Siggy]

--->Do you think this will still be true after the accreditation merger?

Probably for a while. It's not like people don't know which programs were ACGME and which ones were AOA prior to the merger.

 

[K31]

--->Do you think this will still be true after the accreditation merger?

Yes, in the same way that going to a lower tier ACGME residency will limit your fellowship options.

 

[SpecterGT260]

--->Do you think this will still be true after the accreditation merger?

I ask b/c I'm in a similar situation as the OP. (610/227 comlex/usmle), but I'm interested in anesthesiology with hopefully a pain management fellowship in the future.

Also in the same way that jalapenos and habaneros are both spicy.

There is no reason any hurdles will change after the acquisition as access has not changed.

Probably for a while. It's not like people don't know which programs were ACGME and which ones were AOA prior to the merger.

Yes, in the same way that going to a lower tier ACGME residency will limit your fellowship options.

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[cliquesh]

--->Do you think this will still be true after the accreditation merger?

I ask b/c I'm in a similar situation as the OP. (610/227 comlex/usmle), but I'm interested in anesthesiology with hopefully a pain management fellowship in the future.

You'll probably match with that. I have classmates with low 230s and they all got 20 something invites for anesthesia.

 

[IlovePediatrics]

Do you know what you want to do? I'm guessing internal medicine. If that's the case, you should know many IM programs hold more weight on step 2. I have a classmate who got a 204 on step 1 and a 250something on step 2. He did well on both comlexs, however. I think he applied to about 30 internal medicine programs and he got 20something invites. Most of his invites are at strong university programs. He even got an invite at one of the harvards. So, no, I don't think it's game over for you. Just don't **** up step 2. Aim for a 230+ and you'll be fine.

There are a decent number of AOA cardiology fellowships, but that's about it. You probably could match an Acgme pulm, rheum, or endo fellowship coming from an AOA program. Youre not going to match an Acgme cardiology, GI, or hem/onc fellowship from an AOA residency.

Hey thanks, I really appreciate your encouragement and honesty. Within internal medicine I was considering endocrinology more so than cardio. I think the general consensus for the past week or so has been for me to take the risk again and take the usmle step 2 as well as the comlex level 2 and rock both as hard as I can.

 

[IlovePediatrics]

Yes, you still have a chance.

I really hope so. My plan will be to rock Step 2 and also do well in clinicals.

 

[IlovePediatrics]

Not more weight, but maybe more likely to allow a good step2 to compensate step1.

If you check the PD survey all programs, IM included, list step 1 higher than 2.

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I hear ya, I think in my situation, I have to do everything I can to compensate for my score even though I know step1 will be weighed more.

 

[IlovePediatrics]

This is the problem with advice students get from their schools. Who is telling them 533 is a good COMLEX? For competitive fields, many ACGME programs (those that still look at the COMLEX), cut off interviews at 600. Agree with the comments about part 2. Unclear how the ACGME merger will affect this.

Hey thanks. I am not applying to more "competitive fields-->radio, optho, derm, anes" but if I was I have also heard about the 600+ score successes. For me, I would do peds or internal and it seems like a 500+ should put me in decent shape if I do DO match.

 

[sonofva]

Hey thanks. I am not applying to more "competitive fields-->radio, optho, derm, anes" but if I was I have also heard about the 600+ score successes. For me, I would do peds or internal and it seems like a 500+ should put me in decent shape if I do DO match.

if you are just interested in peds or internal, and not picky about where you go, just passing comlex should probs put you in decent shape, so long as your audition goes good...