Do you believe the CDC?

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by Noyac, Sep 30, 2014.

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  1. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    Jun 20, 2005
    We were told that Ebola would not make it to the U.S. We were told that there was no threat to us from Ebola.

    Do you believe anything they say?
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  3. ZzzPlz

    ZzzPlz ASA Member 5+ Year Member

    Dec 2, 2010
    Absolutely not.

    And WHY aren't we just sending all required medical equipment and staff over to the OTHER countries to treat patients. What is the point of bringing them here? What do we have here that we couldn't bring to Africa? MRI machine, send it over. Meds and fluids? Easy. Staff--obviously there are people willing to go there and take the risk of contracting the virus otherwise we wouldn't have them back here in the states.

    Totally unnecessary risk bringing them here.
  4. painmd87

    painmd87 Not a pain doctor 7+ Year Member

    Dec 6, 2008
    Technically, you have to believe SOMETHING they say. Otherwise, you don't believe there's a confirmed case, in which case, there's no problem!
    Evisju7, POW16 and Noyac like this.
  5. BuzzPhreed


    Jan 9, 2014
    It is just an example of hubris. I think I said this already but this whole thing reminds me of Jurassic Park. I mean, we can't even keep a guy jumping over a fence from running halfway through the White House. Why? Because we rely too much on "policy" and "procedure" now instead of individual smarts and simply doing what's right in any given situation.

    Ebola is out of control. This outbreak is going to go on for a very, very long time. And we'll be lucky if it kills less than a million people. My bet? Millions will die. And who's on the front lines?
  6. FFP

    FFP Grunt, cog, body, pompous ass Gold Donor 7+ Year Member

    Oct 17, 2007
    History tends to repeat itself because humans have a short memory.

    BLADEMDA ASA Member 10+ Year Member

    Apr 22, 2007

    Shares of companies working on Ebola treatments are soaring in after-hours trading after the Center for Disease Control and Prevention said there’s been a first case of the infection in the U.S.

    U.S.-traded shares of Canada-based firm Tekmira Pharmaceuticals (TKMR) are up 23% in after-hours trading to $25.90. The company is working on an ebola fighting drug code-named TKM-Ebola that in trial phase. Shares of Tekmira gained 46 cents, or 2%, to $21.14 during regular trading.

    Another big gainer on the news is biotech Sarepta Therapeutics (SRPT). Shares are up $1.67, or 8%, to $22.77 in after-hours trading. Shares closed at $21.10, down 38 cents, or 1.8%. The Cambridge, Mass.-based firm specializes on developing treatment for rare and contagious diseases.

    And then there’s BioCryst Pharmaceuticals (BCRX). The stock is up 11.5% in after-hours trading to $10.90. Shares skidded 71 cents, or 7%, to $9.78 during regular trading. The biotech company based in Durham, N.C. develops a range of treatments for infectious diseases, including the flu.
  8. jwk

    jwk CAA, ASA-PAC Contributor 10+ Year Member

    Apr 30, 2004
    Atlanta, GA
    There was this same hysteria back in the early 80's with HIV/AIDS - so little was known, lots of misinformation, few facts.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the new patient in Dallas was discovered to have ebola, not brought here for treatment.
  9. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Dec 14, 2005
    Home Again
    Meh. I'm not worried.

    Ebola is ravaging Africa because Africa has no medical infrastructure and it's full of people who believe in ghosts and voodoo, who fear medical care, who evade quarantine. The mortality rate given even basic modern supportive care is very low. It's hard to catch ebola with basic universal precautions. Sure, it's not impossible that it'll mutate to a strain easily transmitted by air, but mutation is not this magical process that creates superbugs out of nothing, and filoviridae are just not built for airborne transmission. It's not influenza.

    Africa is in trouble because it's Africa. We should help because they're human beings, and because a destabilized Africa is geopolitically bad for us.

    The CDC hasn't ever given me a reason to doubt what they say. I believe them.
  10. johndoe44


    Aug 24, 2014
    Wow, so your all a bunch of doctors that believe the center for disease control is lying or misguiding the public? ...... I'll bet you guys prescribe vitamins too?
  11. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Dec 14, 2005
    Home Again
    In 1918 there was this little skirmish going on in Europe that kind of interfered with good medical care. And most of the deaths were secondary infections ... bacterial pneumonias, in an age before antibiotics.

    I'm not saying there's no chance of any pandemic ever killing lots of people quickly, never never never, but there's no good reason to think THIS could be it. And lots of good reasons why this WON'T be it.
    BidingMyTime likes this.
  12. scutdoc

    scutdoc ASA Member 2+ Year Member

    Mar 23, 2014
    I don't think anyone here is implying the CDC isn't medically competent (at least to some extent). Rather, I think the perceived problem is the CDC is at the same time subject to the whims and fancies or ups and downs of politics, the media, and other non-medical factors, etc. If so, then it may skew to some degree what the CDC presents to the public. At least that's my understanding.

    By the way, assuming you're referring to what doctors refer to when they talk about vitamins, there's nothing ipso facto wrong with prescribing vitamins if needed (e.g. if a patient is vitamin D deficient).
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    k12balla likes this.
  13. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Dec 14, 2005
    Home Again
    You're right, nothing is ever truly free of politics, and attempts have certainly been made to politicize some things the CDC does - see for example the Republican and Democrat parties' past efforts to push or prevent "gun violence" research.

    But once the CDC actually gets to work on something I don't recall ever seeing any evidence that they have political bias.

    I'm sure there are people out there, in the general category of 6000-year-old-earthers who don't believe in science, moon-landing skeptics, and Philip Morris executives that would disagree. CDC does good work, and is about as apolitical as any agency IMO.
  14. Ipassgas

    Ipassgas ASA Member 5+ Year Member

    Jul 10, 2012
    Do I trust the CDC? Yes. Without reservation? No.

    They state there is no real risk to the western world from Ebola. I happen to believe them. Let's pretend though that there was a small, real risk, but nothing to do about it until after it manifested (quarantine, martial law, etc). It's a containable disease (it has already been contained a dozen times -in Africa no less). If it's a 0.2% risk, do you make the ignorant, rash, unpredictable public aware, causing a scare? Maybe even a run on necessities, then maybe riots and looting, causing the national guard and Ferguson police to arm for war in the streets? I wouldn't mention it. The last thing I would want as the mouthpiece for the CDC, is to inflame panic over a very remote, non-preventable disease outbreak.

    So if I stay mum at 0.2%, do I speak out at 5%? 25%? 85%? Honestly, I probably wouldn't. What purpose would it serve?

    Also pgg, there will be another pandemic. Something fast moving will strike us and many will die. The globe's interconnectedness and our push for sterility in our homes, offices and playgrounds is setting us up for disaster.
    My prediction is either a GI bug causing dehydration, or respiratory. Deaths will come from lack of supportive care. We don't have enough reserve in our system, because reserve is expensive. Think of your hospital. How many unused ventilators do you have right now. How many people live in your county? If you needed 30, or 300 more over the next month, where would they come from? And the sedatives/paralytic?
    We have a shortage of fluids now. If we needed 500,000,000 liters of LR or NS by Nov 15, where would we find them?

    Sure, in a crisis we could get a new facility up and running in 3-5 months, with product on your shelf by March. In the meantime . . . The death toll could be 30% of the world's population.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
    Promethean, FFP and chocomorsel like this.
  15. Evisju7

    Evisju7 2+ Year Member

    Feb 3, 2014
    The paranoid reaction from the public due to this event is outrageous. Is anyone reading the news comment sections? Basically, people are willing to throw out our rights because of a perceived threat. That is NOT okay.

    "[C]ancle the trips from Africa. Control it before it controls us"

    "I would avoid Dallas like the plague"

    "..traveling ban to Africa, unless you're a medical doctor"

    "HIPPA may cover patient privacy, but how can we justify not letting people know that they've been exposed? "
    Promethean likes this.
  16. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    Jun 20, 2005
    Everyone still happy with CDC?
  17. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

    Dec 14, 2005
    Home Again
    Why, did they do something?
  18. BuzzPhreed


    Jan 9, 2014
    "Happy" with them?

    The CDC is a government agency that serves a multitude of functions. In addition to medical doctors, they are PhD microbiologists, epidemiologists, theoreticians, etc. Many of them work in an office and are empowered to make policy, after considering a multitude of variables, possible scenarios, and collating vast amounts of information. As such, they can be subject to "group think" as any other large collection of very intelligent people with strong individual opinions often can, especially when in the end everyone has to ultimately agree to a plan of action.

    The CDC's role is, in part, to disseminate information. It is also to instill a "Keep Calm and Carry On" mentality. It is, by default, an Ivory Tower. As such they are not necessarily - and I'm not talk about their insertion teams who go to sites to manage emerging problems - equipped to understand the situations of individual healthcare systems unless and until they are there. Then, and only then, you often get an ex post facto (i.e., Monday morning quarterback) analysis of what happened as opposed to what should've happened.

    I think that's going on here. Clearly the case in Dallas demonstrates the holes in our current surveillance and interdiction system in the U.S., as a case clearly slipped through the cracks. And, that's the point. The CDC can't really give anyone assurances that this won't happen again, despite how much awareness campaigning they do. A patient - with Ebola - went to a hospital, told the staff there he was sick and had just come from Liberia, yet he was allowed to go back into the community after being discharged with antibiotics and coming in contact with, and potentially exposing, at least 18 individuals.

    That's the point. The CDC may be idealistic in their assessment of the situation, but this is a real-world example of what can happen even in the most advanced healthcare system in the world.

    So, "happy" with them? I don't really expect much. Then again, I work in the real world. And, I can tell you that we are not prepared. I think the CDC knows this. But, the message remains... "Keep Calm and Carry On." That, and the hope that we'll simply dodge the bullet... again.
    Promethean likes this.
  19. Promethean

    Promethean Syncretist 2+ Year Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Western PA
    No one with any sense would believe that it would never come here. There are just too many infected persons and too much world travel going on.

    What I think can be said with confidence is that we won't see it spread as far or as fast here. People here will seek medical care, instead of going into hiding among their families. People here mostly don't handle their own dead, insisting on gathering the whole family together to wash the body and prepare it for eternity. People here will mostly not break out of the hospital for fear that the doctors are deliberately infecting people as a population reduction measure.

    (Mostly. Conspiracy theories kill. The epidemic has spread as far as it has on the wings of such myths, and some Americans are as superstitious as any African villager.)
    BuzzPhreed likes this.
  20. BuzzPhreed


    Jan 9, 2014
    Outrageous? Or expected?

    Look, we may snicker or scoff at the third-world dark ages mentality of the western African mindset where the disease is raging. But, just wait until a few more cases come here and people are told they are being manditorily quarantined. You think there are people in this country who will listen and trust the government to "get it right"?
    Spikebd likes this.
  21. Evisju7

    Evisju7 2+ Year Member

    Feb 3, 2014
    I was referring to the reaction of Americans. Fear shouldn't be the reason behind decisions. I'm not okay with stripping people of their rights as citizens without some damn good reasoning.

    (But definitely expected! Nobody seems to "stay calm" and act rationally)
  22. BuzzPhreed


    Jan 9, 2014
    I understood that. My comment was intended to be juxtaposed to the reactions we are witnessing in western Africa.

    In the words of Agent K from M.I.B.

    FFP likes this.
  23. gtb

    gtb Member 10+ Year Member

    Jan 22, 2003
  24. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

    Jun 20, 2005
    Are you more concerned about Ebola on our soil than the CDC says you should be?
  25. BuzzPhreed


    Jan 9, 2014
    Just like Leon Panetta...

    I think it's dangerous to put any exotic species into a place it's never been before.

  26. Guy Caballero

    Guy Caballero 2+ Year Member

    May 24, 2013
    I don't trust the CDC. I saw how they handled the zombie outbreak in Atlanta. Pretty poorly IMO.
    POW16 and DrZzZz like this.

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