Do you consider the need to euthanize when selecting a research project?

[NotWayneBrady]

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Then I'm totes down to eat horses!
I thought predators, in general, were not as good for us, but I never bothered to look it up.

Obligate carnivores are nutritionally not good to eat, as they tend to concentrate the detrimental stuff they pick up from the lower tiers on the food chain. First time I read this though my reaction was "On what planet are horses predators...?"

Modern dogs are not 100% carnivorous though, pretty sure we bred that out of them 🙂

 

[NotWayneBrady]

You damn hippies!

I will break the animals neck before stabbing it a few times with scalpel. I love killing things.

jokkkeee

Get help.

Edit: That white text was sneaky -.-

 

[mehc012]

Obligate carnivores are nutritionally not good to eat, as they tend to concentrate the detrimental stuff they pick up from the lower tiers on the food chain. First time I read this though my reaction was "On what planet are horses predators...?"

Modern dogs are not 100% carnivorous though, pretty sure we bred that out of them 🙂

Oh yeah, that was confusing wording on my part. I moved on from horses to dogs, whoops!

 

[BluMist]

pro-tip: browse on mobile, no sneaky white text 😛

Get help.

Edit: That white text was sneaky -.-

 

[EverStriving]

I would have a problem sac'ing rats because I had a few as pets. I worked with mice though, and we used a very humane method (IP injection of lethal dose of anesthetic).

Also, after learning that mice often eat their own young, I lost most of my sympathy for them.

 

[Mad Jack]

It was definitely emotional when I first started, but I had to do so many it became routine and felt like any other job. Now that I'm done with that though I'm sure if I had to do it again that process would start over.

Would you say it has definitely turned you into totally not a serial killer?

 

[NotASerialKiller]

Would you say it has definitely turned you into totally not a serial killer?

Well I did become emotionally numb to death...

 

[Mad Jack]

Well I did become emotionally numb to death...

Sounds like my experience on discontinuing life support to a few dozen dozen... People. It's actually not a bad thing to happen, makes you more objective in the long run, and allows you to keep your cool, because you get the whole circle of life thing.

 

[Lucca]

I could not personally do such research myself but like @Ismet I can see the benefits.. For similar reasons I do not eat meat, precisely because there is an equally effective alternative that is also more humane. I don't think oversight in animal research is always up to snuff. My university has been involved in several controversies over the past years involving our animal research center, especially with monkeys and chickens I believe. That being said, I think research is a tool that moves humanity towards a fundamentally more humane future and every effort should be made to avoid in vivo experimentation and to only resort to it when there is a robust body of evidence suggesting is a worthwhile next step. My experience with science and scientists in undergrad has been generally that this is the case, which makes me feel better about the whole ordeal.

Similarly, I believe improving computational methods and engineering physiologically memetic systems outside of live animals is a very important area of continuing research.

 

[Holmwood]

We give our rats an all you can eat sweets buffet before saccing. 🙄

Also, I joined the group not knowing that it entailed euthanization (my fault for not doing enough research)... It was a prerequisite for the position and I understood the necessity but refused to actually do it. For some reason the PI decided to keep me (this is NOT the norm).

Couple projects in and couple years later, I have yet to sac an animal with my own hands. Someone else in my group would sac them in my stead. Sometimes I would sit in to see the babies I raised give their last breath.

I'm thankful for my PI for allowing me to conduct research with the animals. But even if I enjoyed working in the lab, I knew for sure that the basic sciences wasn't for me.

 

[rilte4]

Couple projects in and couple years later, I have yet to sac an animal with my own hands. Someone else in my group would sac them in my stead.

Years? Those are some saints you work with.

 

[mehc012]

We give our rats an all you can eat sweets buffet before saccing. 🙄

Also, I joined the group not knowing that it entailed euthanization (my fault for not doing enough research)... It was a prerequisite for the position and I understood the necessity but refused to actually do it. For some reason the PI decided to keep me (this is NOT the norm).

Couple projects in and couple years later, I have yet to sac an animal with my own hands. Someone else in my group would sac them in my stead. Sometimes I would sit in to see the babies I raised give their last breath.

I'm thankful for my PI for allowing me to conduct research with the animals. But even if I enjoyed working in the lab, I knew for sure that the basic sciences wasn't for me.

I always thought that if you couldn't do it yourself, you shouldn't participate/promote it. That's one reason I don't support the death penalty: couldn't flip the switch myself, so I can't vote for it.

Lucky you found a lab willing to accommodate you, though!

 

[ToxGuy]

I come from a toxicology background, and there are researchers who are pushing for advances in the area of valid in vitro research, but a lot of the scientific community do not consider results to be representative of an actual biological environment if it is not in vivo. Then again, you also have those same people who will then tell you that using a mouse or rat model is hardly comparable to a human model because they are just so different.

I think lab rotations are also very important in deciding whether or not research with animals is right for you. Find a lab who is doing research and procedures on them, and see if they'll let you help do a cardiac puncture, lavage, dissection, etc. It's a much different feel using a warm rat than one pumped full of preservatives

It is crucial to consider your personal ethical standards before taking on a research project, but if it genuinely your goal to do medical science, my suggestion would be to either do the animal testing or don't go into medical research (unless your very ambitious to validate your cell line) because often enough your research will start as in vitro and eventually need in vivo data to get a full picture.

 

[Ismet]

Forced bonding before they're sac'd, are you sure your PI didn't secretly volunteer you for a psychology study?

I did mine by injection, they sometimes had some odd muscular responses but I believe they were out by then.

It was a small lab, and I was the only one who wasn't afraid of the rats to hold and pet them. :/

 

[mehc012]

I've just never seen a disconnect between "aww, so cute and fun to play with" and "OK, time to sac them and do interesting dissections."
I do recognize that many people do, however, which is actually admirable. The world needs both in the end, I figure.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

I had to put down dozens of animals for my thesis project, and some of my labmates have commented that they're not sure they would have been able to do that. I was wondering if the need to euthanize is a determining factor for anyone when seeking out research opportunities, obviously only if your area of interest might demand it.

For anyone who is currently looking to get involved in research, I think it's a good idea to consider whether you can look something cute in the eye and say, "Tomorrow I'm going to kill you for science". I feel like a lot of pre-meds are eager to land any opportunity, and don't think about this until the task is at hand.

Yes I do. For me, I do work with mice, but the tissues have already been collected. Unfortunately, my involvement for it seems to be increasing.

Non-violence is something that's very personal to me and my beliefs

 

[Lawpy]

Similarly, I believe improving computational methods and engineering physiologically memetic systems outside of live animals is a very important area of continuing research.

Engineering and physics drive medicine and will rescue the animals in the end 😀

 

[mehc012]

Yes I do. For me, I do work with mice, but the tissues have already been collected. Unfortunately, my involvement for it seems to be increasing.

Non-violence is something that's very personal to me and my beliefs

Yes, you do what?

Again, I think it's weird to participate in something that you fundamentally disagree with to the point of being unable to do it yourself. I totally understand agreeing/disagreeing on any of these issues, but not participating when it is something you disagree with.

 

[TexasSurgeon]

Yes, you do what?

Again, I think it's weird to participate in something that you fundamentally disagree with to the point of being unable to do it yourself. I totally understand agreeing/disagreeing on any of these issues, but not participating when it is something you disagree with.

As in I do consider the need to euthanize when selecting a research lab/project. It's been fine for me so far

And I totally agree with you, it is weird. It's something I've been trying to figure out how to deal with for a while now. I think it's a big reason why I don't think I would fit into a MD/PhD program or just a PhD program, in addition to other factors