DrYo12

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I have seen a few articles in recent weeks noting that pharmacists are now being asked to perform duties typically expected of nurses and doctors. Do you think it is appropriate for pharmacists to be involved to a much greater extent in 'patient care' responsibilities than in the past?
 

rxgal8

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DrYo12 said:
I have seen a few articles in recent weeks noting that pharmacists are now being asked to perform duties typically expected of nurses and doctors. Do you think it is appropriate for pharmacists to be involved to a much greater extent in 'patient care' responsibilities than in the past?
Yes, definitely. I think that this a great opportunity for pharmacists to become more involved in health care. Afterall, we are trained for it in school. I particularly like the role pharmacists play in vaccination and red ribbon week, etc
:thumbup:
 

dgroulx

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DrYo12 said:
I have seen a few articles in recent weeks noting that pharmacists are now being asked to perform duties typically expected of nurses and doctors. Do you think it is appropriate for pharmacists to be involved to a much greater extent in 'patient care' responsibilities than in the past?
We are definately trained for it in school. Four years of pharmacy school is not just four years of learning pharmacology. We have to be able to read a patient chart and choose the appropriate therapy, including the dosing requirements - not just the drug name. We have classes that just deal with patient counseling. When I graduate from school, I feel confident that I will be able to perform those duties.
 

BESTPHARMACY

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I am glad that pharmacists are taking a more proactive role in patient care. However, I feel that as a whole, pharmacists are not as well respected when compared to other health-care professions. I work for a huge retail chain and pharmacists are treated like shltz.
 

spacecowgirl

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Absolutely, I am so excitied by the direction in which pharmacy is moving. I think it provides endless opportunities for pharmacists who were once limited to a dispensing role. :thumbup:
 

tupac_don

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BESTPHARMACY said:
I am glad that pharmacists are taking a more proactive role in patient care. However, I feel that as a whole, pharmacists are not as well respected when compared to other health-care professions. I work for a huge retail chain and pharmacists are treated like shltz.
Pharmacists are pretty well respected in a hospital setting, especially if you know what you are talking about and you give good advice. If you are good docs will let you handle drugs.
 

tupac_don

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DrYo12 said:
I have seen a few articles in recent weeks noting that pharmacists are now being asked to perform duties typically expected of nurses and doctors. Do you think it is appropriate for pharmacists to be involved to a much greater extent in 'patient care' responsibilities than in the past?

I am confused to as to what duties that nurses do are pharmacists now doing??? Pharmacists don't change bed pans now do they?
 

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The clinical nature of pharmacy has been pushed since the mid 1970's. I have to say over the last 35 years or so it has gone nowhere. One of the chief problems is the financial viability of clinical services provided by pharmacists. Take for example immunizations. Where is the financial justification for 90k a year pharmacists to do what a 50k a year nurse or 30k a year cna can do? There is none. I would suggest you ask your professors, the next time they are spinning up the clinical role of pharmacists, a few questions. 1. what percent of jobs are in clinical roles. 2. where is the cost justification for pharmacists to provide services that lower paid people can do. 3. Who will pay for the services. I'm sorry to say the spin on clinical has been around for years. I believe all you young bright students deserve the truth. Most jobs are in environmnets not even remotely clinical. Ask your professors these questions . I would be happy to debate them on the viability of clinical pharmacy. I have a Doctorate in Pharmacy and an MBA.




DrYo12 said:
I have seen a few articles in recent weeks noting that pharmacists are now being asked to perform duties typically expected of nurses and doctors. Do you think it is appropriate for pharmacists to be involved to a much greater extent in 'patient care' responsibilities than in the past?
 

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I don't want to argue the viability of clinical pharmacist programs, but I will take issue with CNA's and nurses being able to counsel and design a proper medication regimen. That is a ridiculous statement that is so based in fiction it makes me wonder when the last time was you dealt with nurses and CNA's on drug related issues. They are not qualified to deal with medication regimen review. You are taking the complete wrong angle here Slaver. What you need to be looking at is the profitability of programs and who the payor would be. Medicare is going to start paying, and I have seen the possibility of several regional medicaid programs looking at starting their own programs. The problem is convincing doctors to vote to pay for pharmacist services when they are consistently getting their reimbursement rates lowered. I just don't see that happening.



SlaveRPH said:
The clinical nature of pharmacy has been pushed since the mid 1970's. I have to say over the last 35 years or so it has gone nowhere. One of the chief problems is the financial viability of clinical services provided by pharmacists. Take for example immunizations. Where is the financial justification for 90k a year pharmacists to do what a 50k a year nurse or 30k a year cna can do? There is none. I would suggest you ask your professors, the next time they are spinning up the clinical role of pharmacists, a few questions. 1. what percent of jobs are in clinical roles. 2. where is the cost justification for pharmacists to provide services that lower paid people can do. 3. Who will pay for the services. I'm sorry to say the spin on clinical has been around for years. I believe all you young bright students deserve the truth. Most jobs are in environmnets not even remotely clinical. Ask your professors these questions . I would be happy to debate them on the viability of clinical pharmacy. I have a Doctorate in Pharmacy and an MBA.
 

28657

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I agree that pharmacists shouldn't be providing immunizations (except for some rural locations). It is much more financially viable to have a nurse do this task. That is their job.

I just don't quite understand why some of us feel the need to step into other's boundries. Pharmacists are trained, clinically, to counsel patients; let's leave the shots, catheterizations, and enemas to the nurses.

Clinical skills does have two meanings:
1) the counseling that pharmacists provide in a clinical setting, and 2) the actual hands-on that nurses, docs, and dents provide.
 

SlaveRPH

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Gravy,

I agree that a nurse can't put together a drug regimin. However they are quite capable and in fact do a very good job of of counseling patients on their drugs. For example, My wife was put on a medication for migraines It was the nurse who explained how to use the medication and the side affects etc. she was right on the money. Said another way, a nurse working for a neurologist can be right on the money for the meds prescribed by such a doctor. Just like a nurse working in cardiologist office are very knowledgeable on statins. In fact they have more time for patients in a much better environment than a pharmacist. As far as payment for services. what is the reimbursment rate? The point I tried to make is the future of clinical pharmacy is dependent on the cash flow. The studies I have read that attempt to prove the value of pharmacists are always in an environment like a hospital and compare outcomes to a situation of pharmacists vs no pharmacists. In all the studies I have read there is never a comparision of pharmacists to no pharmacists and computer information systems to no pharmacists. I am convinced computer systems can eliminate and provide much of the same "servces" that pharmacists provide. The key is a good financial analysis. Do you have one I can read?
 

spacecowgirl

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eh, I haven't seen an emphesis put on some of the duties discussed here. I think things like teaching people how to monitor blood glucose, showing how to use meters and interpret the info, immunizations, monitoring BP - that I have seen and I think it's great (caveat: as long as we are reimbursed to do so of course). It makes DSM easier for patients and allows pharmacists to develop other skill sets besides count and pour. I have seen only focus on the counseling and the above duties I mentioned, nothing on catherization and that stuff!

DSM is a good way to help patients and us improve/monitor compliance which I think is part of our job. With the way the Medicare changes are going, I see this becoming a real possibility as PBMs realize that an ounce of prevention (and compliance) is worth a pound of cure. Patients find pharmacists more accessible to discuss DSM issues without having to make a doctor's appt. I'm not hoping we move to doing pelvic exams, but I think the current DSM programs are exciting.
 

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You got a Pharm.D. from Oklahoma? So when you call us Pharmdummy, what are you calling yourself?

So slaver.. tell me. What clinical programs are you familiar with that we provide at a hospital setting?

SlaveRPH said:
The clinical nature of pharmacy has been pushed since the mid 1970's. I have to say over the last 35 years or so it has gone nowhere. One of the chief problems is the financial viability of clinical services provided by pharmacists. Take for example immunizations. Where is the financial justification for 90k a year pharmacists to do what a 50k a year nurse or 30k a year cna can do? There is none. I would suggest you ask your professors, the next time they are spinning up the clinical role of pharmacists, a few questions. 1. what percent of jobs are in clinical roles. 2. where is the cost justification for pharmacists to provide services that lower paid people can do. 3. Who will pay for the services. I'm sorry to say the spin on clinical has been around for years. I believe all you young bright students deserve the truth. Most jobs are in environmnets not even remotely clinical. Ask your professors these questions . I would be happy to debate them on the viability of clinical pharmacy. I have a Doctorate in Pharmacy and an MBA.
 

SlaveRPH

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You know zpack you really should seek counseling and treatment. Is a PharmD the only doctorate in pharmacy?
Why don't you let your hatred for me go. And help me educate and inform all the young pharmacy students. The colleges paing a picture that I believe is not very accurate as to where the jobs are and wht they will be doing once in the workforce.
ZpackSux said:
You got a Pharm.D. from Oklahoma? So when you call us Pharmdummy, what are you calling yourself?

So slaver.. tell me. What clinical programs are you familiar with that we provide at a hospital setting?
 

bananaface

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Please do not face off with other members. If someone says something you don't like, just ignore them. If the post is a personal attack or otherwise inappropriate, you may report their posts.

If the fighting continues, action may be taken against your accounts.

- Anna :)
 

ZpackSux

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I don't hate you.. We're just antithesis of each other. It's very healthy.

Doctorate in pharmacy is either Pharm.D. or Ph.D right? I hope you're not calling PD (pharmacy doctor) title as earning a "doctorate."

:)

SlaveRPH said:
You know zpack you really should seek counseling and treatment. Is a PharmD the only doctorate in pharmacy?
Why don't you let your hatred for me go. And help me educate and inform all the young pharmacy students. The colleges paing a picture that I believe is not very accurate as to where the jobs are and wht they will be doing once in the workforce.
 

ZpackSux

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I will keep it civil. :love:

Slaver announced that he was coming here. But I felt that pharmacy students needed to read the opposing view..everytime slaver posts..

God only knows..I've been doing it for 5 years.

bananaface said:
Please do not face off with other members. If someone says something you don't like, just ignore them. If the post is a personal attack or otherwise inappropriate, you may report their posts.

If the fighting continues, action may be taken against your accounts.

- Anna :)