Do you ONLY apply to MD schools? Why not DO?

[GomerPyle]

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I just had a simple question. Do all of you apply to DO schools in case you do not get into MD schools? I see a bunch of threads of people "not getting in", so why would you wait a year or two to reapply and hopefully get into MD schools, when your guaranteed to get into DO schools right away, and then apply to your selected residency anyways? 😕

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I...when your guaranteed to get into DO schools right away...

Do you really think that is how it works? Fallacy alert, my friend.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

some of us are blinded by our pride.

 

[DJtiesto]

some of us are blinded by our pride.

+1

 

[gravitywave]

some of us are blinded by our pride.

+2

ps: glad you're back, bleargh. you were mighty boring there for a few days with that mod tag on

 

[patel2]

+3

 

[WashMe]

I just had a simple question. Do all of you apply to DO schools in case you do not get into MD schools? I see a bunch of threads of people "not getting in", so why would you wait a year or two to reapply and hopefully get into MD schools, when your guaranteed to get into DO schools right away, and then apply to your selected residency anyways? 😕

lol

The reasons I didn't apply to DO schools are:
(1) I would have had to fill out AACOMAS and thus pay a substantial additional fee.
(2) DO secondaries are expensive.
(3) With DO acceptances, you usually have to accept or withdraw your acceptance within a couple weeks. Therefore, if you get an early DO acceptance and you want to be able to hold that spot, you have to put down a deposit that could be like $500, $1000, or more.
(4) DO tuition seems expensive to me.

 

[startswithb]

Bleargh is right. Remember, premeds are really insecure, and things like DO as initials can be especially problematic to the point that they opt for spending 2+ more years and 100K+ in money (plus lose hundreds of thousands in opportunity costs) to do masters/post-bacs/reapply. To many, the prestige of being recognized as an MD outweighs any financial considerations.

As someone applying to both, I'm all about taking the MD acceptance over DO if you have the opportunity (why wouldn't you?). If you have grades/mcats high enough, there is no reason to even apply DO. But for borderline applicants to MD, when you really sit down and think about it, taking additional years off and losing 100,000's in opportunity costs/application costs isn't very logical if you don't get into an allopathic school.

Because many DO applicants make lengthy, bitter justifications like these.

 

[gatorade848]

lol

The reasons I didn't apply to DO schools are:
(1) I would have had to fill out AACOMAS and thus pay a substantial additional fee.
(2) DO secondaries are expensive.
(3) With DO acceptances, you usually have to accept or withdraw your acceptance within a couple weeks. Therefore, if you get an early DO acceptance and you want to be able to hold that spot, you have to put down a deposit that could be like $500, $1000, or more.
(4) DO tuition seems expensive to me.

this and pride lol

I got 2 instate MD and despite my below average gpa everyone has been telling me i still have a decent chance with my EC and mcat, so I would rather stay close to home and save money. My dad works at one of the schools so I would get instate tuition AND employee discount so its kinda no brainer. I am not completely crossing out DO though. my plan is for first cycle i will apply MD broadly, if i dont get in 2nd cycle I will apply both MD and DO.

 

[patel2]

.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

+2

ps: glad you're back, bleargh. you were mighty boring there for a few days with that mod tag on

thank you, it was a pretty oppressive tag

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Do you really think that is how it works? Fallacy alert, my friend.

So you're telling me that the acceptance rate is NOT 100%?? Well I'm just all mixed up now...

 

[UbuntuGM]

Ego. It's not a good reason for only applying MD, but I think it's an understandable one.

 

[startswithb]

I didn't exempt myself from the characteristics I made...and certainly wasn't meaning it to be bitter. Just saying that financially/career wise it isn't most logical to reapply if you can start medical school right away at a DO school.

That's cool. I can see that logic working for some, but of course not all. I was just responding to the "OMG U ARE A PRETENTIOUS DBAG if you don't want to apply DO! DO=MD!! I'll be counting my stacks when you are just starting! $$$!!!!$$$"

OP, DO doesn't always fit with everyone's personal and career goals. Do what you want and feel good about it. Don't worry about what everyone else is doing. 👍

 

[boobelle]

I just had a simple question. Do all of you apply to DO schools in case you do not get into MD schools? I see a bunch of threads of people "not getting in", so why would you wait a year or two to reapply and hopefully get into MD schools, when your guaranteed to get into DO schools right away, and then apply to your selected residency anyways? 😕

I think you're a bit confused about residency. There are separate MD and DO residency programs with entirely separate matches, and while DOs do get spots in MD programs it takes a lot of extra work to switch over (e.g having to take both sets of licensing exams and often having to juggle both matches, etc). Take a look at all the "DO trying to match allo" threads in the residency programs. Does that mean it's impossible? Of course not, and great DOs certainly match in allo programs, but it's definitely an uphill battle compared to their MD colleagues.

 

[BigEast55]

lol

The reasons I didn't apply to DO schools are:
(1) I would have had to fill out AACOMAS and thus pay a substantial additional fee.
(2) DO secondaries are expensive.
(3) With DO acceptances, you usually have to accept or withdraw your acceptance within a couple weeks. Therefore, if you get an early DO acceptance and you want to be able to hold that spot, you have to put down a deposit that could be like $500, $1000, or more.
(4) DO tuition seems expensive to me.

(5) Didn't want to deal with having to take the COMLEX and the USMLE exams
(6) Didn't want to deal with the bias against DOs in allopathic residencies (warranted or not it exists at certain programs)
(7) I had 4 in-state programs that I thought I had a really solid chance of getting into

 

[Hah]

I just had a simple question. Do all of you apply to DO schools in case you do not get into MD schools? I see a bunch of threads of people "not getting in", so why would you wait a year or two to reapply and hopefully get into MD schools, when your guaranteed to get into DO schools right away, and then apply to your selected residency anyways? 😕

I didn't feel like shortening my personal statement after getting the down to the exact character requirement for AAMC and I did not want to have to write cringe worthy reasons to why I wanted to go to DO schools.

Also, I thought my ECs and stats were strong enough not to warrant a back up.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

So you're telling me that the acceptance rate is NOT 100%?? Well I'm just all mixed up now...

Every time you post, I watch that Charlie freakout video again. #winning.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Because many DO applicants make lengthy, bitter justifications like these.

At least he didn't start talking about the DO philosophy...

 

[Residual]

---From what I've seen, DO schools are more expensive on average.
---It's harder to get into competitive residencies from a DO school, and not everyone wants to go into primary care.
---EGO!
---Outside of the SDN world, a lot of people don't even know what a DO is, or if they think they do, they have false info.

 

[patel2]

At least he didn't start talking about the DO philosophy...

Andrew Taylor Still, M.D., D.O. was a 19th century American doctor committed to improving patient care and providing a more scientific basis for medical treatments. A. T. Still defined osteopathy as "that science which consists of such exact, exhaustive, and verifiable knowledge of the structure and function of the human mechanism, anatomical, physiological and psychological. Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine is trained to perform a structural diagnosis integrated into the entire history & physical taking process and use OMT techniques when appropriate

jk. Having to BS about OMM on secondaries and interviews was definitely the worst part about the DO application process. Oh well...mean's to an end I guess.

 

[motomed]

(5) Didn't want to deal with having to take the COMLEX and the USMLE exams
(6) Didn't want to deal with the bias against DOs in allopathic residencies (warranted or not it exists at certain programs)
(7) I had 4 in-state programs that I thought I had a really solid chance of getting into

(8) I have no desire to learn OMM until they get around to justifying it the same way every other medical treatment is justified. If this came up in an interview they would have blacklisted me anyway.
(9) had plenty of shadowing/clinical experience and had no desire to waste a DO's time just to get a letter.


I applied two cycles ago, didn't get in, did an SMP, and am now sitting on an in state MD acceptance at a school I'm very happy to be attending. I have no regrets at all, am quite happy to have gone this route. I'd rather be a first year MD student with all the doors still open for me than a third year DO student with many doors closed or significantly more difficult to get through. leave as many doors open as long as you can, you're not going to retire until you're 70, an extra year or two in your 20's isn't a huge deal at all.

 

[TheRunner]

(8) I have no desire to learn OMM until they get around to justifying it the same way every other medical treatment is justified. If this came up in an interview they would have blacklisted me anyway.
(9) had plenty of shadowing/clinical experience and had no desire to waste a DO's time just to get a letter.


I applied two cycles ago, didn't get in, did an SMP, and am now sitting on an in state MD acceptance at a school I'm very happy to be attending. I have no regrets at all, am quite happy to have gone this route. I'd rather be a first year MD student with all the doors still open for me than a third year DO student with many doors closed or significantly more difficult to get through. leave as many doors open as long as you can, you're not going to retire until you're 70, an extra year or two in your 20's isn't a huge deal at all.

Congrats!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Andrew Taylor Still, M.D., D.O. was a 19th century American doctor committed to improving patient care and providing a more scientific basis for medical treatments. A. T. Still defined osteopathy as "that science which consists of such exact, exhaustive, and verifiable knowledge of the structure and function of the human mechanism, anatomical, physiological and psychological. Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine is trained to perform a structural diagnosis integrated into the entire history & physical taking process and use OMT techniques when appropriate

jk. Having to BS about OMM on secondaries and interviews was definitely the worst part about the DO application process. Oh well...mean's to an end I guess.

Honestly the OMM might not even be that bad. Some of it has been through observational experiments proven to be useful as a form of physical medicine. However it is the fact that some D.O students will argue for an hour about how the DO philosophy is so amazing and that it is their reason for attending. I honestly just find that to be a really stupid rationalization.

 

[Kaustikos]

Research. I know I plan on doing it during 3rd/4th year and after that and I know the research I'd want to do would never happen in DO schools. Meh, I could be wrong, but it seems that you shouldn't have any interest in doing the research I'd want to do if you want to go DO.

 

[MediCynical]

I have 2 reasons I didn't apply to DO:

1) My undergrad grades were not so hot, and I decided to do an SMP (didn't know much about DO before starting the SMP). After spending $34k to improve my credentials, I felt that it would have been a waste of money to apply to DO since I most likely could have gotten into a DO school before.

2) Going along with my poor undergraduate performance - When med school starts, the slate is wiped CLEAN. A 3.0 undergrad student has the same potential to crush the boards and be placed into a top residency as does the student with a 4.0 uGPA. I really don't know what area of medicine I want to pursue, but I want to be very successful and am going to work my ass off. I didn't want to be limited in ANY way by the letters behind my name (yes, I realize that a DO can pursue any field of medicine, but it's not the same)

EDIT: Other reasons - research and attending my state school

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

(8) I have no desire to learn OMM until they get around to justifying it the same way every other medical treatment is justified. If this came up in an interview they would have blacklisted me anyway.
(9) had plenty of shadowing/clinical experience and had no desire to waste a DO's time just to get a letter.


I applied two cycles ago, didn't get in, did an SMP, and am now sitting on an in state MD acceptance at a school I'm very happy to be attending. I have no regrets at all, am quite happy to have gone this route. I'd rather be a first year MD student with all the doors still open for me than a third year DO student with many doors closed or significantly more difficult to get through. leave as many doors open as long as you can, you're not going to retire until you're 70, an extra year or two in your 20's isn't a huge deal at all.

I'd rather be a 3rd year DO.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Research. I know I plan on doing it during 3rd/4th year and after that and I know the research I'd want to do would never happen in DO schools. Meh, I could be wrong, but it seems that you shouldn't have any interest in doing the research I'd want to do if you want to go DO.

MSU-COM has a pretty strong DO/PhD in Pharmacology.

 

[startswithb]

(8) I have no desire to learn OMM until they get around to justifying it the same way every other medical treatment is justified. If this came up in an interview they would have blacklisted me anyway.
(9) had plenty of shadowing/clinical experience and had no desire to waste a DO's time just to get a letter.


I applied two cycles ago, didn't get in, did an SMP, and am now sitting on an in state MD acceptance at a school I'm very happy to be attending. I have no regrets at all, am quite happy to have gone this route. I'd rather be a first year MD student with all the doors still open for me than a third year DO student with many doors closed or significantly more difficult to get through. leave as many doors open as long as you can, you're not going to retire until you're 70, an extra year or two in your 20's isn't a huge deal at all.

(10) I didn't want my grades from age 18/19 follow me around for the rest of my career
(11) I'm not in a hurry
(12) Very interested in surgery or surgical subspecialties
(13) Dislike business model of DO schools

 

[Disinence2]

So you're telling me that the acceptance rate is NOT 100%?? Well I'm just all mixed up now...

Epic! I love that show.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I am applying to DO schools because I am a nontrad they seem to be more accepting of that, I come from blue collar industries, I am older, I have a family, and I have to care about going to a school that accepts me as a whole package. I have good grades, but I also have a makeshift degree from 4 colleges because I have to work two jobs. I don't have any clubs or research. I also cannot realistically go into nuerosurg (or similar) with a year of research and another pediatric fellowship, cardiovascular surgery, blah, blah, etc, because my kids will be starting college before I would be done. I don't have aspirations to be a world renowned pediatric heart surgeon nor cure cancer because of the reasons I said.

I also live a few miles from a great DO school, so my area has very little bias if any.

Having said all that on why DO works better for me, if I didn't have all of that and wanted it. from day one, I probably would apply apply MD only.

 

[Slack3r]

The reasons I didn't apply to DO schools are:
(1) I would have had to fill out AACOMAS and thus pay a substantial additional fee.
(2) DO secondaries are expensive.
Not anymore so than some of the private MD schools. I'm looking at you $125-automatic-secondary George Washington U. 😡
(3) With DO acceptances, you usually have to accept or withdraw your acceptance within a couple weeks. Therefore, if you get an early DO acceptance and you want to be able to hold that spot, you have to put down a deposit that could be like $500, $1000, or more.
At some it's as high as $2000.
(4) DO tuition seems expensive to me.
Most of the DO schools have tuition in the $40k range. Barring a state school, that's likely what you'll pay for a "mid-tier" MD school. Some of the priciest schools I've seen are middle of the road MD schools: Tulane ($55k OOS), GW ($49k), Tufts ($53k), Temple ($48k)

Responses are bolded.

(13) Dislike business model of DO schools

The business model of DO schools? I'm not sure (with the exception of RVU) that the DO "business model" is any different than any other private institution.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Honestly the OMM might not even be that bad. Some of it has been through observational experiments proven to be useful as a form of physical medicine. However it is the fact that some D.O students will argue for an hour about how the DO philosophy is so amazing and that it is their reason for attending. I honestly just find that to be a really stupid rationalization.

When I started looking around at possibly pursuing a medical degree, I was amenable to the concept, including OMM. Then I made the mistake of googling cranial. And they lost me.

 

[WashMe]

^ I may be wrong, but I don't think DO schools are as generous with financial aid. The tuition might be 40k but you're paying most of it. Tuition at my MD school is almost 50k, but with the school's aid policy I pay less than 30% of that... and I didn't get anything based on "merit".

 

[motomed]

I am applying to DO schools because I am a nontrad they seem to be more accepting of that, I come from blue collar industries, I am older, I have a family, and I have to care about going to a school that accepts me as a whole package. I have good grades, but I also have a makeshift degree from 4 colleges because I have to work two jobs. I don't have any clubs or research. I also cannot realistically go into nuerosurg (or similar) with a year of research and another pediatric fellowship, cardiovascular surgery, blah, blah, etc, because my kids will be starting college before I would be done. I don't have aspirations to be a world renowned pediatric heart surgeon nor cure cancer because of the reasons I said.

I also live a few miles from a great DO school, so my area has very little bias if any.

Having said all that on why DO works better for me, if I didn't have all of that and wanted it. from day one, I probably would apply apply MD only.

I don't have kids and a wife, which is obviously huge, but am otherwise in the same boat. five schools on my transcript, the school my bachelors degree came from no longer exists, worked full time night shifts while taking all my prereqs over a five year period, come from a small farming town in the middle of nowhere, will be 29 when I start, never joined a club.... the "top" MD schools have no interest in us, but there are plenty of schools more concerned with their mission than their ego who love students like us, especially if you're interested in primary care. most of them are state schools, save the $20,000/year and put it towards your kids college education!

 

[RogueUnicorn]

When I started looking around at possibly pursuing a medical degree, I was amenable to the concept, including OMM. Then I made the mistake of googling cranial. And they lost me.

oo shiny

 

[Mahliah]

Well, I wouldnt apply to DO, but my mind may change in the future.

1.I'm a little skeptical about OMM.

2. Practically all of the DO schools are private, including the 2 that are in my state,and that comes with private school tuition.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Every time you post, I watch that Charlie freakout video again. #winning.

Good 👍. My aim in posting that video has been fulfilled. We can all learn from the wealth of knowledge dispensed by Charlie Kelly.

To get down to real srs inter-web business, I have no problem with DO. I do have a problem, as do others apparently, of having to devote time to OMM and also the fact that the majority of the top 10 medical schools with the highest debt are all DO schools. I don't like the location of most DO schools either, except for one or two to which I might apply. I honestly think that if they did something about their tuition, they would find more students interested. The rise in competitiveness of entering DO classes is not due to a rise in interest in the osteopathic philosophy, but to increased overall competition nationwide. It's all a bit silly. The few DOs I've met, a dermatologist and pediatrician, have seemed like very competent docs.

 

[ManBroDude]

(4) DO tuition seems expensive to me.

I'm applying DO-only, and this is a table I made of all DO schools plus tuition. It's no joke. UNECOM's avg student debt load upon graduation is over $289,000. 😱

 

[MediCynical]

When I started looking around at possibly pursuing a medical degree, I was amenable to the concept, including OMM. Then I made the mistake of googling cranial. And they lost me.

I just did that

 

[Kaustikos]

MSU-COM has a pretty strong DO/PhD in Pharmacology.

Yeah, it was a mistake on my part, honestly. I didn't research every school and so ultimately I was dissuaded because I was just seeing DO's with research in areas I had no intention of pursuing. I don't regret it now, since I got into the school I wanted, but I'm sure my opinion would've changed if I hadn't.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

When I started looking around at possibly pursuing a medical degree, I was amenable to the concept, including OMM. Then I made the mistake of googling cranial. And they lost me.

Yah.. cranial is utter bunk.. I actually heard from the grapevine that SOMA is voting to remove it from the COMLEX.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Yah.. cranial is utter bunk.. I actually heard from the grapevine that SOMA is voting to remove it from the COMLEX.

They'll need some good luck to get that past the old guard. We'll see how it goes. The current generation of DO students/graduates would relish it I'm sure. It would make the MD vs. DO conflagrations less interesting, which I would regret 😉

 

[drizzt3117]

I just had a simple question. Do all of you apply to DO schools in case you do not get into MD schools? I see a bunch of threads of people "not getting in", so why would you wait a year or two to reapply and hopefully get into MD schools, when your guaranteed to get into DO schools right away, and then apply to your selected residency anyways? 😕

Not everyone is interested in chiropractics, don't judge.

 

[willen101383]

While there are still some typical misconceptions abound in this thread, the OMM part SHOULD put some of you guys off. I am finishing up my m1 at a DO and OMM can be a huge issue if you dont like it. Everyone should keep an open mind toward OMM, well aside from cranial, until they actually have some experience with it. There are some things in OMM that are complete bull$hit to me....but there are other parts that are most likely useful...and are things ive actually had traditional physical therapists do to me when I was injured playing sports in the past. Will I ever use OMM as an attending? Most likely not.

The part where OMM can be a problem is when you start having exams that line up at the same time. When I have an exam in a class (currently in systems)...and there is an OMM written or practical before or after that it can be incredibly stressful. And if you really dislike OMM, like me, its really tough to stay focused on OMM exams and that is something that can sink you. Not that I am in this situation by any measure, but it would suck to have to repeat a year systems and all over failure in OMM.


But for people who continually harp on DO tuition...my school is the cheapest med school in Philadelphia as far as I know. DO schools shouldnt be lumped together just like MD schools shouldnt be lumped together.

 

[Ari1282]

When I started looking around at possibly pursuing a medical degree, I was amenable to the concept, including OMM. Then I made the mistake of googling cranial. And they lost me.

This is hilarious.. I took your advice and looked up cranial, WTF?!? That stuff sounds pretty ridiculous, but that's just me.. Oh wait, it's not just me, LOL!

MD CLASS OF 2015!! 😀

 

[Ari1282]

An enjoyable/informative read for those who are interested..

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/osteo.html

 

[Jesse87]

Isn't OMM more work? What if you don't believe in that type of practice?

 

[MpXnpio]

Come on guys, there is a lot of spiritual energy in the body that most people are too dull to recognize. This website has a good overview cranial osteopathy for those of you willing to open your minds a bit.

http://www.cranialacademy.com/cranial.html

 

[denco88]

Responses are bolded.



The business model of DO schools? I'm not sure (with the exception of RVU) that the DO "business model" is any different than any other private institution.

This.....