Do you regret going into Med school?

[Leukocyte]

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yeah, as such one should take all the complaints you hear about a career in medicine with the usual grain of salt. some people like to complain just so they can have something to say.

I envy you Dire (in a friendly way). Obviously you found your right niche in medicine. 😉

 

[llort]

Hi. Does anyone here regret going to Med school? Or wasn't sure they wanted to go? I've heard that a lot of doctors regret going to med school because it wasn't worth it or they didn't like it.

I don't know if it's for me. I like science, but I don't like it with a passion. I don't know how to find out if I like it or not. I've done volunteer, but it's boring, and no one gives me anything to do for two hours so I end up sitting in the cafeteria til time is over.

How did you guys know you want to go to med school after having doubts? And do any of you guys have doubts now that you're in med school?

Please list pros and cons if you can. Thanks.

regarding volunteering being boring, that is your fault. I was a spanish major so I volunteered as a spanish medical interpreter at a clinic that needed one badly, so I was able to sit in on all conversations with patients, talk to them about test results, give advice, etc... it was a great experience. so if you are bored, then look for a volunteer experience that you would like to do. Dont be another biology major premed douche who is volunteering just to get into med school and feels like they have to enter med school at age 22.

 

[lilycat]

Dire Straits -- you make a great point -- I know exactly the type of people that you are talking about, and those types would tie in nicely with Path-1's comment that "attitude is contagious." But, like Leukocyte pointed out, there is a difference between complaining and satisfaction. There is a difference between the perenially grumpy ENT attending I was listening to on my rotation who would go on and on about how much she hated clinic and wished that she had been a radiologist instead, vs. those who are quite vehement about wanting to go into another field. If we're going off of anecdotal evidence, I guess we all have to go on our gut instincts about the people we're talking with. For my part, what I've been thinking about while writing these posts are primarily my own thoughts, and then secondarily people who have actually come out and said "if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't" or those who are contemplating career changes or those who actually have made career changes.

In 2000, the last time I looked up this data, I believe the AAMC survey of graduating 4th-years showed that 20% or more said they wouldn't choose medicine again if they had the choice to make over again. I doubt that's any higher than many other professional careers, and it's probably lower than some others (I would guess law), so for those contemplating medicine, those are probably pretty good odds to gamble with if you are still uncertain.

 

[MD'05]

And I'm wondering, have any of you that regret going into medicine ever had any other "real" jobs, ie one that has health/insurance benefits, paid vacation and sick leave, 401K, ect? Based on the responses, it seems highly unlikely.No doubt, it seems that nontrads have fewer "issues" with med school training/medicine than traditional students.

I worked before and business is no different than medicine. Medicine is business. The crap that happens in business, happens in medicine except in medicine people are more angry, more vicious, and really, really rude.

I'm glad I made the switch 'cause I can make bank just working the system.

Oh, and your theory about non-trads is not necessarily true. I know many non-trads with mucho issues.

 

[Dupree]

In 2000, the last time I looked up this data, I believe the AAMC survey of graduating 4th-years showed that 20% or more said they wouldn't choose medicine again if they had the choice to make over again.

Talk is cheap. I bet most of that 20% would still do it over. I knew alot of med students whose parents paid for everything so these people didn't have any debt to worry about like most med students. So there was really nothing tying them down to practicing medicine. Still they complained about how it sucked and wish they had done something else. They're 26 years old, no debt, with an M.D. degree, they could have done a lot of other things. But every single one of them went through the match and took up a residency. Talk is cheap and I bet most people would do it again even though they whine how they wouldn't.

 

[lilycat]

Talk is cheap. I bet most of that 20% would still do it over. I knew alot of med students whose parents paid for everything so these people didn't have any debt to worry about like most med students. So there was really nothing tying them down to practicing medicine. Still they complained about how it sucked and wish they had done something else. They're 26 years old, no debt, with an M.D. degree, they could have done a lot of other things. But every single one of them went through the match and took up a residency. Talk is cheap and I bet most people would do it again even though they whine how they wouldn't.

Hmm... interesting take... I guess to counter your argument, I would offer a few points:

1) Reasons for dissatisfaction in medicine and NOT changing careers might actually be more complicated than simply being burdened by debt. Changing careers for anyone can be a very scary and overwhelming prospect, and usually isn't taken lightly. I don't envy anyone in this position. Some of the factors might include the amount of time and effort currently invested in the education/career, the time that transitioning into another field might take (ie, if someone wants to pursue a different graduate degree), pressure from family or friends -- ie, being engaged/married, looking to start a family soon, etc. Or simply a mixture of inertia and practicality -- it's hard to switch gears after you've had a certain mindset for a long time, and there are significant financial benefits to practicing medicine -- there are always jobs to be had, good job security, and the average income is far above the general average in the U.S. Being practical or being overwhelmed does not equal career satisfaction.

2) For these people that you describe who, to paraphrase your argument, "talk the talk, but don't walk the walk," or just like to complain, I would question how much mileage or enjoyment from complaining can be gained in answering anonymous survey questions. Just a thought.

3) There's still a good amount of med students out there with sizeable debt, even if you don't know them (hence, the average med student debt of 122,000 per the AAMC -- average debt figures includes those who have zero debt). Some of those students might fall into that 20% number.

4) Since we're talking in anecdotes, I know one student graduating this year who is in the situation you describe -- no debt since her family subsidized her education -- she agonized and agonized, and decided not to match, and is now entering a different career. So I guess she would not fall into your "talk is cheap" description.

5) People drop out of residency programs all the time -- not necessarily always switching into another program. I'm not saying this is a high number, but it does happen. Perhaps some of the people you describe may ultimately fall into this category.

 

[tigress]

I'm dealing with the very real and overwhelming fear of ending up $400,000+ in debt and trying to support a family while paying off loans. Completely independent of the issue of actually having enough time for my children, I'm terrified of being in that much debt. Is it really possible to pay off something like that? Is it worth it?

And wanting to be a good mother to my children is huge as well. I'm faced with a very big decision here. I can't think of a single thing I'd be happy doing other than medicine, except maybe being a stay-at-home mom. Part of me is just saying that I can give up my dream of being a doctor so that I'll be a good mother, but then I worry I won't really ever be happy unless I'm a doctor. But if I had to choose between being a good mother and being happy, I'd probably choose the former.

If I chose not to go to med school at this point, what would I do? My husband is in med school, so I'd have to get a job to support us, right? But I can't think of any job I'd actually be happy doing long-term. So I could just work until he gets out of school. And that's what it comes down to. If I choose to have a career, it will be medicine. If I choose not to go into medicine, I will be a mother and a wife. The fear of financial instability from not having a career of my own is srong, though. And I'm probably not cut out for a life as a homemaker; I want to have a career and use my intelligence and have prestige.

It's such an agonizing decision, and in some ways I feel like there's no right answer. No matter how I choose I will regret it at some point. It's extremely depressing and makes me feel somewhat fatalistic.

 

[Dire Straits]

I envy you Dire (in a friendly way). Obviously you found your right niche in medicine. 😉

well leukocyte i wouldn't say i've surely found that niche. i'm still up in the air between anesthesio and general surg. i don't mind hard work and have a very good capacity for it. i'd go as far to say the i enjoy working hard. that is why i may "fit" into medical career. it sure ain't because i'm a genius!

 

[Elysium]

I'm dealing with the very real and overwhelming fear of ending up $400,000+ in debt and trying to support a family while paying off loans. Completely independent of the issue of actually having enough time for my children, I'm terrified of being in that much debt. Is it really possible to pay off something like that? Is it worth it?

And wanting to be a good mother to my children is huge as well. I'm faced with a very big decision here. I can't think of a single thing I'd be happy doing other than medicine, except maybe being a stay-at-home mom. Part of me is just saying that I can give up my dream of being a doctor so that I'll be a good mother, but then I worry I won't really ever be happy unless I'm a doctor. But if I had to choose between being a good mother and being happy, I'd probably choose the former.

If I chose not to go to med school at this point, what would I do? My husband is in med school, so I'd have to get a job to support us, right? But I can't think of any job I'd actually be happy doing long-term. So I could just work until he gets out of school. And that's what it comes down to. If I choose to have a career, it will be medicine. If I choose not to go into medicine, I will be a mother and a wife. The fear of financial instability from not having a career of my own is srong, though. And I'm probably not cut out for a life as a homemaker; I want to have a career and use my intelligence and have prestige.

It's such an agonizing decision, and in some ways I feel like there's no right answer. No matter how I choose I will regret it at some point. It's extremely depressing and makes me feel somewhat fatalistic.

I totally and completely feel what you're going through. This is an interesting thread from mommd.com. Be sure not to post it in though, since I think you have to be a doc to post in that particular thread. The rest of the site is good though.

http://www.mommd.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/2/t/000272

 

[cammy1313]

well leukocyte i wouldn't say i've surely found that niche. i'm still up in the air between anesthesio and general surg. i don't mind hard work and have a very good capacity for it. i'd go as far to say the i enjoy working hard. that is why i may "fit" into medical career. it sure ain't because i'm a genius!

Dire, sounds like we're apples that fell from the same tree. I, too, feel that one of the major reasons I've pursued medicine for so long is because of the challenge surrounding such a career. I know so many people that say they wish they could marry rich and make a career out of doing nothing. Even though I can be lazy and value my lounge time, I haven't really ever been able to relate to such a claim. I can't imagine having no purpose, no reason to wake up in the morning. And yeah, I sure as he11 am not a genius either...

 

[1Path]

But if I had to choose between being a good mother and being happy, I'd probably choose the former..

Why do you think you have to make such a choice, I have both and I'm a divorced parent. 👍

I think that perhaps part of the reason some docs are/seem so unhappy is because they're trying to live up to societies standard of what happiness should be. Once again, we're back to attitude. Define FOR YOURSELF what happiness is and go for that. If it includes medical school, then go. But I have to admit being concerned about seeing the word "prestige" in the same paragarph as wanting a career in medicine. Prestige, by definition relies too heavily on the opinions of others, so once again we're back to attitude!

 

[lilycat]

Tigress -- You've gotten some great advice so far -- I think that thread on mommd.com gives you a sample of some of the sentiments out there. I agree with 1-Path that "being happy" and "being a good mother" do not necessarily have to be exlcusive from one another. I think the majority of women in my class are planning to have children, and some of them are already mothers and they are all pursuing a variety of options, anything from primary care to plastic surgery. Some are planning already to find ways to work part-time once out of residency (ie, at a Kaiser-type situation) or they're planning to work full-time. Lots of people do balance work and family successfully, or at least attempt to. My feeling is that it involves an honest assessment of your situation, and making some hard choices or sacrifices, but hopefully those sacrifices will be worth it in the end for you. These decisions may be different from those you would have made completely unfettered, but you're not -- you make the best choices you can with the situation you have in front of you. If you have to alter the plan along the way, you alter it.

Your questions about debt are well-founded, but I'm curious where you are getting the $400,000 figure from? Are you including your husband's debt as well? If you start school while he is still in school or is a resident, there is a good chance you should be able to qualify for at least a few scholarships or grants (assuming you're going to a US school). Also, if you want to go into primary care, there are scholarship programs available for those fields specifically. Don't let finances be the only roadblock if this is something you really want.

 

[EL CAPeeeTAN]

This same type of question came up in the general residency forum and most of the doctors were saying "do not go into medicne, etc. Here is what I posted there maybe it wil help?

I have been reading and reading on this thread and have some thoughts to add. Here is a little back ground. I am 32 and have been on a business career path related to medicine. I recently went back to school to take my pre reqs. and applied to med school this cycle. I got into Ros Frank.(Finch / Chicago Medical School) AP. For those that do not know this is a program where you take 1/2 of MS1 courses and if you maintain a 3.0 you get to continue on in medical school taking the 2nd 1/2 of the MS1 clases during your 2nd year (basically a 5 year program) so even more debt.

I worked for Pfizer Pharmaceuticals right out of college selling Zithromax, Glucotrol, Zoloft, Viagra. Then I realized that many docs did not know squat about business and were loosing lots of money. These were docs who got hired by some group out of residency and after being a slave for the group thought they could make more money on their own. So I formed a medical business consulting company and started taking on all types of miserable and poor docs from almost every specialty (ortho, urology, IM, FP, Peds, Plastic, Nephrology, Surgery, Derm, Ophto, etc.) These guys were all loosing $$$ on their own. Eventually me and another doc opened a multispecialty clinic and I ran the business side. Over 5 years we grew to 5 locations 20 + docs with specialties from ortho, plastics, to primary care, etc. I dealt with recruiting docs, firing docs, negotiating with insurance companies, hospitals, mal practice, etc. (we were sued about 2 times / year) I was paying 120k / year!!! for the ortho surgeon who had never been sued!!!! My point is I know the business side / crap the docs face today. Beleive me it is horrible. I could hire FP or IM docs for 80K/ year, granted they were not the most competitive applicants and somewhat desperate. We had 5 PAs doing a lot of the work also. Most of the docs were disgruntled with their careers.
All of my best friends from college went into medicine and are now finishing their residencies. (1 is Rads, 1 Urology, 1 Gas, 1 Pathology, 1 optho, 1 Ortho, 2 IM) I have remained pretty close with them throughout their training. They wish they did not have debt, they wish they had a decent car and a house, they wish that they made money, etc. Many have told me that I am crazy to go into medicine. I am married have 2 kids, I have made decent money, have a house, cars etc. (not bragging, just giving you an idea of my situation). I sold my ownership in the clinic when I went back to school to take prereqs and the MCAT. Currently my wife and I run a small medical billing business. She will continue to run it while I go to med school.
What is my point to this ramble of a post? Everyone hates their careers and complains, "the grass is always greener" My attorney friends hate their jobs. My corporate friends are working 60 - 100 hours / week and traveling all of the time. They might be making good money but they can't spend it. When they go on their vacations, they really can't relax. The cell phones, politics of the office, this project, that project and deadlines remain, so they are miserable on their vacation and practically working anyways. The weekends are the same thing and they end up working. My MBA business friends make great money, drive nice cars etc are totally jealous that I am going back to school to be a doctor, most of them are overworked and stressed to the max. Their marriages suffer and there kids wonder when they will see dad again. The point is work is called work because it is work and every profession sucks on some level and the people in those careers dream about what if i was a ...... etc. Life is hard regardless of your profession / Job. At least as a doc ther is an ocassional rare occurance where you are actually helping someone (but the insurance claim will get rejected) so you won't get paid and the patient will probably sue you.

Accountants don't want to be accountants, CEO wish they did something else, even rock stars complain about how hard touring is etc. I have one friend who is independently wealthy and does not have to do anything and he complains and is anxious that he has too much time and feels unfulfilled. Consultants don't want to be consultants. Teachers don't want to be teachers (not enough money and tons of headaches). I think you get my point.

I do not know if this will help anyone, but the fact of life is that we always wish we did something else and everything looks perfect from far away. At the end of the day most of my close friends that are docs are deep down very glad that they get to do what they do and they eventually find a balance and make life work. Anyways, sorry to rant and rave and go on and on, I am sure I am still naive (not having even started classes yet) but I have lived the life that many of you now say you wished you did instaed of medicine and it can suck too. I have worked my fair share of 80 - 100 hour work weeks in business. Be glad that you are a doc and will always be needed and can really help people. The grass is not always greener and you will eventually find your happy place. I would agree with those who have said do not go into medicine for money or prestige, etc. It is not there anymore.

__________________
"You know damn well there's much more than 2 pits in a pear!"

 

[tigress]

Your questions about debt are well-founded, but I'm curious where you are getting the $400,000 figure from? Are you including your husband's debt as well? If you start school while he is still in school or is a resident, there is a good chance you should be able to qualify for at least a few scholarships or grants (assuming you're going to a US school). Also, if you want to go into primary care, there are scholarship programs available for those fields specifically. Don't let finances be the only roadblock if this is something you really want.

Thanks for the responses.

The $400,000+ is an estimate based on both my husband's and my own debt from med school (tuition and cost of living, plus stuff like childcare). My husband is in first year, so if I apply this summer I'll be starting when he's in 3rd year. That makes 2 full tuitions worth of loans plus two years cost of living expenses before he has an income. I'm not sure how one qualifies for scholarships or grants; it seems to me like my husband ought to be getting some grant money, but he hasn't, so I don't have any confidence that I'll get any money either.

It's really 3rd year I'm worried about. Well, that and the debt. I'm worried that during third year I really won't have a chance to see my family. My mother talks about how after she had babies she didn't want to do anything other than take care of them (she's a lawyer and went back to work almost immediately after having each child, but she says it was really hard to tear herself away, and she was working short hours). Residency is also extremely difficult, but I would hope to choose a speciality that had less crazy hours (at this point I would think I'd go into EM or radiology; EM has lots of nights, but at least it's shift work and not the same sort of call schedule. Of course everybody says I'll change my mind once I'm in school.)

My husband is 100% supportive of whatever decision I make. I suppose it's a bit difficult that my mother really thinks I shouldn't go to med school because I won't have enough time for my kids. She thinks I should go to law school and do patent law, or find something else. And I'm very close to my mother. Not that she wouldn't support me no matter what, but I really do value her advice.

Anyway I know I'm just rambling at 1:30 am. I can't think of much else lately. I caught myself hoping I did very poorly on the MCAT, because that will help make this decision for me.

 

[PineappleGirl]

work is called work because it is work and every profession sucks on some level

This is an excellent point! 👍

 

[DoctorFunk]

My husband is 100% supportive of whatever decision I make. I suppose it's a bit difficult that my mother really thinks I shouldn't go to med school because I won't have enough time for my kids...

Anyway I know I'm just rambling at 1:30 am. I can't think of much else lately. I caught myself hoping I did very poorly on the MCAT, because that will help make this decision for me.

This is definitely a decision that will have to be reached through a lot of soul-searching on your part, but here are my two cents coming from a family that went through a divorce...

Prior to the divorce, my father was depressed all the time and barely had any energy to spend time with me and my sister. However, after my parents divorced they both devoted a great deal of time and energy to their relationships with us--especially my father even though he saw us less, and overall I believe life improved for everyone.

Now you're asking yourself, "what the heck does this guy's family history have to do with my situation?" The answer is, that whether or not you have more time with your family doesn't really matter unless you're leading a happy and fulfilled life. If you can honestly see yourself five years down the road miserable because you don't feel challenged as a full-time mom, then don't let the prospect of time away from your family dissuade you, especially if your husband is understanding and willing to help make things work. Satisfaction with your career and a sense of fulfillment will go much further to a happy family life than all the time in the world, and the career of a physician post-residency is flexible enough to afford you more time away from the job when your children are a few years older, especially when both parents' incomes are sizable.

 

[Leukocyte]

You guys make me laugh (and cry at the same time). TALK IS VERY CHEAP. Wait until you reach late MS-3/MS-4. and experience reality YOURSELF. Geez, I sound like a broken record.

Ever wonder WHY medical students are NOT getting into PRIMARY CARE fields? Why are U.S. MDs not going into FP, IM, Pediatrics, Ob/Gyn, and General Surgery?

Why MOST medical students are choosing Radiology, Dermatology, Anesthesiology, Pathology, ENT, Opthalmology, Urology, and Orthopedics INSTEAD?

And regarding those pre-meds, MS-1, MS-2 who say they love medicine soo much and will not change their decision for the world, I ask you this:

Will you take the word of a sailor who had never been to sea yet?

To all those who are undecided. I am very sorry. There is no other way to know if you will like medicine or not. You just have to take the risk. This is life, anyway. Life is full of risks and NOTHING IS FOR SURE.

And for the person who talked about "hard work". That has nothing to do with anything we a talking about here. Dude/Gal, it takes more than "hard work" to like a speciality. Hey, I "hate" General Surgery and Internal Medicine, but I worked hard and got Honors in both and a Letter of Recommendation from a Noble-Prize Candidate "Giant" Program Director in General Surgery. BUT I still do not like General Surgery. Hard work has nothing to do with satisfaction, my friend.

 

[lilycat]

I do not know if this will help anyone, but the fact of life is that we always wish we did something else and everything looks perfect from far away. At the end of the day most of my close friends that are docs are deep down very glad that they get to do what they do and they eventually find a balance and make life work. Anyways, sorry to rant and rave and go on and on, I am sure I am still naive (not having even started classes yet) but I have lived the life that many of you now say you wished you did instaed of medicine and it can suck too. I have worked my fair share of 80 - 100 hour work weeks in business. Be glad that you are a doc and will always be needed and can really help people. The grass is not always greener and you will eventually find your happy place. I would agree with those who have said do not go into medicine for money or prestige, etc. It is not there anymore.

__________________
"You know damn well there's much more than 2 pits in a pear!"

OK, I'm starting to feel like a broken record, but here goes.

I think there are some people on this thread that are purposely misreading posts or are skimming them and thus misconstruing them in a way that their subsequent replies are not really pertinent to the points that have previously been brought up.

I know that neither myself, nor Elysium, nor Leukocyte have once made the claim "I don't like medicine because it's hard work, long hours, etc." If I'm mistaken, someone please bring out the quote to illustrate this.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT HARD WORK!!!

To me, it is about finding a passion, finding a career that can take the best advantage of your talents, or to put it another way, maximize your interests and talents to the best possible degree.

For me personally, I have come to realize along the way that medicine does not fulfill the above criteria. Can I make a good living doing it? Yes. Can I feel good about my work at the end of the day? Usually, yes. Would I still go to medical school again knowing what I know now? No.

Will I practice? More than likely. There are many aspects of my work that I like or enjoy, besides the fact that I have a huge amount of debt to be paid off, along with the fact that I'm not sure I can really contemplate a huge career switch with the requisite investment of time or education as I start my 30's.

For me, some of my sentiments on this would be related to the "eh doctor vs. great doctor" thread. I can motivate myself at the hospital, spend 14 hours, and be content because I'm busy and I know I'm doing my work well, and I get some satisfaction out of my interaction with patients and colleagues and the occasional opportunities to learn during the day. My doubts creep in after work when I can't find ways to motivate myself to sit down and study, to read medical journals, to put in all the extras that, again for my definition only, differentiate great doctors from the "eh" doctors. I'm not referring to the usual procrastination that everyone goes through -- comparing myself with a variety of classmates (in terms of motivation/procrastination), this seems to be a huge struggle/stumbling block for me. I know there are classmates of mine that can and do regularly find this extra motivation, this extra drive, and partly for that reason, I think they will be great doctors. Without this drive, I worry about my ability to be a "great" doctor. However, based on experiences prior to medical school, including one year in publishing, I think that I personally would have an easier time finding this extra drive in a different career. Again, nothing to do with "hard work."

I do not try to speak for all medical students. I know some other students who share some sentiments similar to mine, including a few who have left medical school for alternate careers and in no way regret that decision. I also know many students, the majority actually, who are very content with a career in medicine.

I have never made the claim that my experience is representative of others in any way. The only thing I find remotely interesting, and potentially of help to other people contemplating medical school, is that it has been something I've struggled with for many years, essentially from 18 on, and I'm now 28.

So to reiterate, let's not just try to mischaracterize this conversation as simply people trying to avoid hard work, or people just wanting to complain. It's not fair to blatantly mischaracterize the posts of several people who have tried to honestly answer the questions posited in this thread, baring their private sentiments and experiences in an effort to explain their positions.

 

[lilycat]

Thanks for the responses.

The $400,000+ is an estimate based on both my husband's and my own debt from med school (tuition and cost of living, plus stuff like childcare). My husband is in first year, so if I apply this summer I'll be starting when he's in 3rd year. That makes 2 full tuitions worth of loans plus two years cost of living expenses before he has an income. I'm not sure how one qualifies for scholarships or grants; it seems to me like my husband ought to be getting some grant money, but he hasn't, so I don't have any confidence that I'll get any money either.

I can't remember if you are working or not, or how many kids you already have at home if any. However, assuming you are not working or not bringing in much of an income, or that you have children at home, your husband should certainly try to go to his financial aid office and have a talk with the director there and probe the situation a little more in depth. The FAO's can vary widely, but usually they can be very helpful and if you press them about options inlcuding scholarships and grants, you might be surprised at what they come up with. It can't hurt to try.

Third year of med school is variable. There will be some rotations that you will be working like crazy on, and nights that you will be at the hospital the whole time and unable to come home. Again, it can vary widely from school to school, but overall I was very surprised by the amount of free time I had. I'm not saying it's a lot, but it was more than I expected (I was prepared for the worst, like 5am-9pm every day, every rotation, well except for family). Also, some schools may have deceleration options available as well.

Even if you go into law, you'll have to make huge time sacrifices initially, time sacrifices that may not be significantly different from medicine assuming you want to perform at a high level. So the question for you will probably come down to whether you can better stomach that time sacrifice practicing medicine or practicing law?

 

[skeezixdoc]

my 2 cents:

I've done many, many other things before medical school, all of which I enjoyed doing as far as the work is concerned. Passion is something some people simply don't have or understand. Passion for a challenge is inherent in enjoying something that's hard work, and I don't know if one can learn this.

But I've seen so many kids coming through this process that are so whiny, so peeved, so incredibly upset by what seems to be a sense that they're not being respected enough for all their hard work and efforts. Well, being a doctor is no different from anything else...the expectation from others is that you're doing a job and should do it well without any encouragement from anyone, let alone your patients. And, you're only as good as the last thing you did right. Doing your job well rarely results in praise, everybody else does theirs without praise, so why should being a doctor be any different? You only hear a response and comments when you screw up. You're always being judged, scrutinized, compared. If you can't deal with this, or feel you need constant approval and respect from your patients and your friends don't go into medicine.

If you're undecided stay away from committing yourself right away. Go do other things, things that are not geared toward the CAREERISM that so many young people are obsessed with today. Be a bartender, a carpenter, a hot dog vendor. Get to know other types of people, gain some perspective about yourself without the pressure to BE any one thing. You've got plenty of time, there are enough people in medical school who just want to finish the next step without enjoying a single thing about the journey, only to find the next step is no longer there, they've finished. No more people to impress with their intelligence. No more professor's approval, no more attendings to strut in front of to feel a sense of security. No more class rankings to prove they're better than someone else. No more bragging rights, no more ways to compare themselves with others. And what they find is a sense of emptiness at the thought that now it's really up to them to make themselves feel worthy.

I feel sorry for these kids, so don't end up this way. I don't know the reason, but I suspect it has to do with a sense of proving something to their parents, or not feeling good enough in other's eyes. But it's definitely a sense of insecurity for some reason. I think the only way to beat this out of oneself is to get out there and learn about who you are first, before the huge expense and commitment which only serve to propagate the insecurity. Don't become yet another doctor who hates people, talks down to others, drives a beemer to feel superior, and wants nothing more to finish work as fast as possible and get to the country club for tennis or golf.

Sick people are not the enemy. People are easily scared when they don't know what's wrong with them. Fear is often expressed as anger, or as selfishness, or as irrational behavior. To be a good doctor one needs to understand that you have the power to disarm these emotions, not just with clinical knowledge, but with an understanding that you are more secure than these people and that you are in control. You need the compassion and the security to temper the patient's fear. All the bookwork, the competition, the ass kissing to become the "TOP" person will do nothing for you if you can't appreciate fear and the often nasty, impulsive responses of a patient. This is not about science, science only serves as the backdrop to be good at disarming emotions. Don't be fooled that curing is the endgame, it doesn't happen that often. You are going to be a caregiver, and you're going to be there to SERVE your patient, your client. Because they know less than you doesn't make them less a client. You treat them with respect first, and if you're lucky, and good, you'll get it in return. You need a huge amount of humility, which comes with being secure. This is what is lacking in most doctors. Arrogance is the epitomy of insecurity.

I guess that was more like my 300 cents.

 

[joe6102]

You guys make me laugh (and cry at the same time). TALK IS VERY CHEAP. Wait until you reach late MS-3/MS-4. and experience reality YOURSELF. Geez, I sound like a broken record.
...
And regarding those pre-meds, MS-1, MS-2 who say they love medicine soo much and will not change their decision for the world, I ask you this:

Will you take the word of a sailor who had never been to sea yet?

To all those who are undecided. I am very sorry. There is no other way to know if you will like medicine or not. You just have to take the risk. This is life, anyway. Life is full of risks and NOTHING IS FOR SURE.

I will be starting MS-1 this Fall, and I have a few questions. What is it about being a physician that no one could possibly understand until MS-3? There are plenty of things in life that I know I like/don't like without having to experience them (I can give plenty of examples ranging from food to careers to relationships). Is it truly not possible to know, even with clinical experience, tons of shadowing, having a parent as a physician, and being a nurse or PA for years? Is it something unique, absent in other careers, that makes medicine inherently impossible to predict happiness in?

 

[lilycat]

I will be starting MS-1 this Fall, and I have a few questions. What is it about being a physician that no one could possibly understand until MS-3? There are plenty of things in life that I know I like/don't like without having to experience them (I can give plenty of examples ranging from food to careers to relationships). Is it truly not possible to know, even with clinical experience, tons of shadowing, having a parent as a physician, and being a nurse or PA for years? Is it something unique, absent in other careers, that makes medicine inherently impossible to predict happiness in?

I can't answer for Leukocyte, but I'll go ahead and throw in my $.02.

In the respect that you mentioned, I actually don't think that medicine is really any different from other careers. As has been mentioned in previous posts, there are lots of dissatisfied, discontent people in a number of professions including law, business, academia, etc. I seriously doubt that now-unahppy lawyers went into law school expecting to be dissatisfied with their careers. The way you feel about something from the outside (and yes, I would consider shadowing, having friends/family who are practicing, other clinical experience aside from being an MD (possible exceptions being nursing or PA) as generally "outside" perspectives), MAY be very different from when you are on the "inside" and on the front lines yourself every day. It also could possibly be a question of age -- for the average med student (or law student for that matter) who starts school ~ 23 years of age, a lot can change between 23 and 27, or 23 and 30, the earliest point at which you might finish residency. Again, not everyone's experience, but certainly the experience of some people.

 

[joe6102]

I can't answer for Leukocyte, but I'll go ahead and throw in my $.02.

In the respect that you mentioned, I actually don't think that medicine is really any different from other careers. As has been mentioned in previous posts, there are lots of dissatisfied, discontent people in a number of professions including law, business, academia, etc. I seriously doubt that now-unahppy lawyers went into law school expecting to be dissatisfied with their careers. The way you feel about something from the outside (and yes, I would consider shadowing, having friends/family who are practicing, other clinical experience aside from being an MD (possible exceptions being nursing or PA) as generally "outside" perspectives), MAY be very different from when you are on the "inside" and on the front lines yourself every day. It also could possibly be a question of age -- for the average med student (or law student for that matter) who starts school ~ 23 years of age, a lot can change between 23 and 27, or 23 and 30, the earliest point at which you might finish residency. Again, not everyone's experience, but certainly the experience of some people.

That's interesting...thank you and I'm interested in hearing other opinions as well.
I thought about it some more and maybe I can answer my own question. Unlike almost every other career, once you committ to medicine, you are financially vested in it after 1 year, and very much after 2 years of loans. Maybe medicine has dissatisfied physicians because switching careers is not a viable option once you are $75k or more in debt at the start of MS-3. It would be much, much easier to quit a corporate job to become a teacher, for instance.

 

[SocialistMD]

Is it truly not possible to know, even with clinical experience, tons of shadowing, having a parent as a physician, and being a nurse or PA for years? Is it something unique, absent in other careers, that makes medicine inherently impossible to predict happiness in?

I don't think you can know one way or another until you've experienced it yourself. Shadowing and clinical experience offer a skewed perspective, often showing only the fun and exciting part of being a physician; the part that only accounts for ~15% of your workday. Having a parent as a physician can't tell you that you want to be a physician any more than the fact that my dad was a cop told me how much I would enjoy it. You and your parent(s) are different people, react to experiences differently and have different likes/dislikes. Seeing mom or dad come home geeked out or sad can't really predict how you would feel given the same situation.

As lilycat said, it isn't something that makes medicine different from other careers, it is the pre-job expectations that make it different. My friends who are accountants didn't go into the field with these grandiose expectations of what they would be doing as many pre-meds do. That illusion is what can't be dissolved until one experiences medicine for one's self.

 

[Saved Satan]

my 2 cents:

Don't become yet another doctor who hates people, talks down to others, drives a beemer to feel superior, and wants nothing more to finish work as fast as possible and get to the country club for tennis or golf.

An exellent comment stemming from careful observations and reflections.
One exception is adding tennis as a "country club" showy thing. Tennis is my favorite sports. And still I'm nobody.

 

[doc05]

I will be starting MS-1 this Fall, and I have a few questions. What is it about being a physician that no one could possibly understand until MS-3? There are plenty of things in life that I know I like/don't like without having to experience them (I can give plenty of examples ranging from food to careers to relationships). Is it truly not possible to know, even with clinical experience, tons of shadowing, having a parent as a physician, and being a nurse or PA for years? Is it something unique, absent in other careers, that makes medicine inherently impossible to predict happiness in?

You can't understand until you've experienced it for yourself.

 

[doc05]

Ever wonder WHY medical students are NOT getting into PRIMARY CARE fields? Why are U.S. MDs not going into FP, IM, Pediatrics, Ob/Gyn, and General Surgery?

Why MOST medical students are choosing Radiology, Dermatology, Anesthesiology, Pathology, ENT, Opthalmology, Urology, and Orthopedics INSTEAD?

Most medical students aren't choosing the fields you've mentioned -- they only account for a small number of graduating med students. Plenty of students are still going into IM, Peds, and general surgery.

 

[fidelio]

Wait until you've actually experienced med school and see how you feel.

How long do you think I should wait before I know what to do? By that I mean, how far into med school if I were to go?

I'm actually planning on taking a year off because I need it. I don't think I could decide right now.

And geez, you guys are all scaring me with some of your answers!

And out of all the different kinds of doctors, which one is the best kind in your opinion job-wise?

 

[fidelio]

regarding volunteering being boring, that is your fault. I was a spanish major so I volunteered as a spanish medical interpreter at a clinic... it was a great experience. Dont be another biology major premed douche who is volunteering just to get into med school and feels like they have to enter med school at age 22.

No, it is SERIOUSLY boring, which is why I'm questioning whether I should even bother going to med school, although I did have this great experience with shadowing a doctor in ER, but he disappeared somewhere.

Everything he said was interesting, but then again maybe I have a romanticized view about med school. As a volunteer there, all I did was file papers. and while I was in ER, I just stood around and tried not to get in the way.

 

[fun8stuff]

No, it is SERIOUSLY boring, which is why I'm questioning whether I should even bother going to med school, although I did have this great experience with shadowing a doctor in ER, but he disappeared somewhere.

Everything he said was interesting, but then again maybe I have a romanticized view about med school. As a volunteer there, all I did was file papers. and while I was in ER, I just stood around and tried not to get in the way.

90% of volunteering is boring for the most part. don't make a judgement based on that. sure there are some cool things that you can do, but not many... not very many of us are bilingual and have the option of doing what the previous poster did...

 

[skeezixdoc]

An exellent comment stemming from careful observations and reflections.
One exception is adding tennis as a "country club" showy thing. Tennis is my favorite sports. And still I'm nobody.

I wasn't really mentioning the sports of tennis or golf as the point of that sentence. I like to play both and it's not the showy-ness I meant, only the attitude of having your eye on the clock to get the hell away from seeing patients and being in it only for the money. Didn't mean any offense to tennis/golf players.

 

[PineappleGirl]

Tennis is my favorite sports. And still I'm nobody.

Mine too! And me too!

 

[Dire Straits]

there seems to be a bunch of threads similar to this on SDN. and i think they've run their course. we're basically just repeating the same things over and over. and now what i'm noticing is that some people are just looking for reassurance from others that they are not the only ones who aren't happy with med school. similar to how some people look for reassurance after an exam that they weren't the only ones who thought the exam was difficult. the bottom line is that not everyone will be happy with med school or their medical career. and there is no way of really knowing if you're going to be one of them until you actually go through it for yourself. a catch-22 as they say. that's really all there is to it.