Do you see my problem?

[fellowstudent92]

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Yeah, but you also have to consider that a lot of people don't want to be surgeons, and if you want to make much bigger dollars, you need to BUY a practice, which is significantly more debt. An OMFS practice that nets the owner 450K will probably cost 700K. If you are a double degree OMFS from a private school (dent and med) then you probably already have about 800K of debt. Even a single-degree OMFS will still have 500K from a private school. The only specialties that typically pay a stipend during training are OMFS and Pedo. Practically all other training programs charge tuition.

I think that dentistry overall used to be a better deal when:
1) The supply was decreased in the 1980s
2) The cost of education was practically nothing and,
3) Training programs paid a stipend, as they used to. Dental school funding has since dried up significantly.
4) Opening a practice was as easy as hanging a shingle.

If you consider that many general dental grads do a GPR and then spend a couple of years as an associate, medicine is a better financial deal, especially if you end up at a cheap school.

Okay I want to see what you would say to this. How about if you can afford to go to an in-state dental school that is 170K in tuition (in my case), no debt from ugrad, and then on top of that doing residency after dental school for a non-OMFS or Pedo specialty? Like endo or prostho? Forget about ortho. Nowa the days I doubt ortho is worth it. Do you think this deal is more worth it than medicine? I personally do. My instate medical school is roughly about the same...10k cheaper but with the compounded interest accrueing in residency, this would make the tuition much more expensive, probably 250K to 300K depending on the years of my residency. I figure I could accumulate just as much debt in dental WITH specializing as I would be spending in medicine but I would be done quicker assuming I don't do emergency medicine (sure as hell not doing primary care). This is also assuming I get into the specialty of my choice. But financially this is just as good. No?

 

[fellowstudent92]

Emergency Medicine and Dentistry are very different careers though. I actually considered EM, and then I realized that the vast majority of what I would be doing on my shifts would be treating people who really have no business being in the ER(Not to mention all the drug seekers). Like I said earlier, I don't like sick people; I want to do something surgical.

I know but I was looking at it from a financial perspective given all equal variables. Emergency Medicine was the only thing I would consider with a 3 year residency that parallels the number of years of residency for dental specialties. Whether the nature of the work appeals to you is an entirely different matter. I happen to like both however.

 

[Sublimazing]

Yeah, but you also have to consider that a lot of people don't want to be surgeons, and if you want to make much bigger dollars, you need to BUY a practice, which is significantly more debt. An OMFS practice that nets the owner 450K will probably cost 700K. If you are a double degree OMFS from a private school (dent and med) then you probably already have about 800K of debt. Even a single-degree OMFS will still have 500K from a private school. The only specialties that typically pay a stipend during training are OMFS and Pedo. Practically all other training programs charge tuition.

I think that dentistry overall used to be a better deal when:
1) The supply was decreased in the 1980s
2) The cost of education was practically nothing and,
3) Training programs paid a stipend, as they used to. Dental school funding has since dried up significantly.
4) Opening a practice was as easy as hanging a shingle.

If you consider that many general dental grads do a GPR and then spend a couple of years as an associate, medicine is a better financial deal, especially if you end up at a cheap school.

Your debt numbers are wayyyyyy off...i'll be 300k in debt when i finish...not 800k...and i was on high side of every co resident ive ever had...the amount of debt dental students are in is over inflated on these boards

And the op said omfs...so tuition is irrelevant...omfs are all salaried

And in terms of how much an omfs can make...call your local one...ask how much 4 third molar extractions with anesthesia will cost...then ask how long it will take...then recalculate their salary estimate

 

[fellowstudent92]

Your debt numbers are wayyyyyy off...i'll be 300k in debt when i finish...not 800k...and i was on high side of every co resident ive ever had...the amount of debt dental students are in is over inflated on these boards

And the op said omfs...so tuition is irrelevant...omfs are all salaried

And in terms of how much an omfs can make...call your local one...ask how much 4 third molar extractions with anesthesia will cost...then ask how long it will take...then recalculate their salary estimate

Would your opinion change if we were talking about a specialty that required tuition? Would it still be worth it to accrue that much debt?

 

[Silent Cool]

Your debt numbers are wayyyyyy off...i'll be 300k in debt when i finish...not 800k...and i was on high side of every co resident ive ever had...the amount of debt dental students are in is over inflated on these boards

Pretty much any private school these days will cost 500K with accrued interest. For the rich students (of which there are many in dental school) their debt will necessarily be lower. Factor in that many people have undergrad debt, too. If you attend a private dental school and a 6-year program, you will have about 800k+ of debt because you have to pay med school tuition for two years. In fact, the debt load if you assume 7.4% interest comes out to more like 1 million.

And the op said omfs...so tuition is irrelevant...omfs are all salaried

And in terms of how much an omfs can make...call your local one...ask how much 4 third molar extractions with anesthesia will cost...then ask how long it will take...then recalculate their salary estimate

I am well aware of how much that procedure pays. Keep in mind, however, that if the politics of 3rd molar extraction changes (as it did in Great Britain: http://www.apha.org/advocacy/policy/policysearch/default.htm?id=1371 ), the OMFS income will drop by 60%+ overnight.

Here's an example of an OMFS practice for sale in Sonoma County:

http://www.calaoms.org/ClassifiedAds/PracticesforSale.aspx

I am certain that if you live in the White Mountains of NH or middle-of-nowhere Iowa, you can clean up even more, but that's hardly where most people want to live or where they will be practicing. My debt and income figures are very realistic.

 

[Silent Cool]

The intern year helps alot provided one works extremely hard and humbly! Think of it as a year-long audition. Some programs have a history of taking their interns, too. The three interns from my school's class of 2013 matched this year with middle ranks and high 70s / low 80s numerical NDBE 1 scores - they might've had some other intangibles but those are the numbers I'm aware of. Connections with program directors does play a part, too - externships get you known by PDs and residents that have influence over applications (think soon-to-be chief residents).

@Gregor Wiesmann
Those scores should tell you how (relatively) easy it is to match into OMFS. Getting a 78/80 on the dental boards is a joke. Did those people even study? The medical boards are far, far harder--just like the MCAT is much more difficult than the DAT.
And yes, doing the intern year is an excellent idea if you don't match the first time. Most people who do an intern year and decide they still want to pursue OMFS will match afterwards. A google search will tell you where the intern year spots are.

 

[Sublimazing]

Accrued interest over what time?

Show me 10 schools that have 4 year tuition over 400k? And you aren't accruing much debt in residency because you're on deferment

I've had 18 co residents in 3 years...only two of them (myself included) has over 320k in debt

Name one omfs resident you know that graduates with 800k in debt?

 

[Silent Cool]

Accrued interest over what time?

Over the duration of your training, which is dental school plus the six years afterwards. Federal loans accrue interest through the duration of your training--there is no "deferment," as it were. Instead, you would simply be on IBR and make payments as a resident that are scaled to your income.

Show me 10 schools that have 4 year tuition over 400k? And you aren't accruing much debt in residency because you're on deferment

I should have specified--not tuition, but cost of attendance. For all but those who have rich parents, you will need to borrow money to live.

Anyway:

http://www.bu.edu/dental/about/offices/registrar/tuition/dmd-tuition/
https://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/
http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academic_programs_admissions/dmd_program/tuition_fees
http://www.westernu.edu/financial/financial-budgets/financial-budgets-dentistry/
http://dental.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyudental/documents/dds1314.pdf
http://dental.tufts.edu/admissions/...ormationcost-of-attendance/cost-of-education/
http://www.roseman.edu/students/students-students/bursar/tuition-and-fees-1
http://www.une.edu/sfs/graduate/costs/dental-medicine
http://cumc.columbia.edu/student/finaid/pdf/dnbg1415.pdf
http://dental.case.edu/dmd/finaid
http://www.atsu.edu/financial_aid/documents/ASDOH_DMD_Freshman_Budget_2014-15.pdf
http://www.midwestern.edu/Documents/Financial Aid documents/COA Forms/DENTAL_IL1415.pdf
http://www.llu.edu/assets/dentistry/documents/admissions/dds-expenses.pdf

The principal borrowed amount at most of these schools (ie, cost of attendance) is right around 400K. Remember that interest accrues each year so the graduating balance is ~500K, and that includes NO undergrad debt, which applies to very few people today.


I've had 18 co residents in 3 years...only two of them (myself included) has over 320k in debt

That's because you went to school previously, when educational costs were much lower. Those people also might have had, you know, wealthy parents. What I'm stating here isn't my opinion--it is verifiable fact. Just look up the tuition costs and factor in accrued interest each year. Also consider that the government is probably going to increase interest rates soon.

Name one omfs resident you know that graduates with 800k in debt?

Well here's a couple of private medical school examples, but any private 6-year OMFS program will put a resident in that amount of debt after finishing at any of the above private dental schools. One of the frequent posters (I forget his name) who recently began OMFS training NOW will have 600K+ of debt when he finishes. I remember him saying something like, "It weighs over my head everyday." Imagine an undergrad coming out with 50K of debt and attending one of the aforementioned private schools and then doing even just a four-year program--that would take him/her to about 700K of debt at the end of training.

http://www.med.upenn.edu/admiss/financial.html
http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/applying_receiving/graduates2/medical/Cost.html

As I said, assume a cost of attendance at any private medical school to be about 80K per year. Tack that onto 500K coming out of a private dental school and remember that interest accrues each year of your 6 years of training. Interest rates were lowered recently from the ~7.35% that I am using to calculate the numbers, but remember the government is expected to increase the interest rates on student loans soon, so an average interest rate of 7.35% is reasonable.

 

[Silent Cool]

@Gregor Wiesmann
Those scores should tell you how (relatively) easy it is to match into OMFS. Getting a 78/80 on the dental boards is a joke. Did those people even study? The medical boards are far, far harder--just like the MCAT is much more difficult than the DAT.
And yes, doing the intern year is an excellent idea if you don't match the first time. Most people who do an intern year and decide they still want to pursue OMFS will match afterwards. A google search will tell you where the intern year spots are.

Also, the fields in dentistry that tend to be competitive are the "lifestyle" fields--afterall, dentists are generally "lifestyle" people. That means that, in terms of straight numbers/class rank, etc.., Ortho and Endo have classically been the most competitive, not OMFS. It is true that OMFS can have a chill PP set up, but the training to get there is tougher than most dental students want to deal with, so there is a relatively small self-selecting group that goes after it.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Also, the fields in dentistry that tend to be competitive are the "lifestyle" fields--afterall, dentists are generally "lifestyle" people. That means that, in terms of straight numbers/class rank, etc.., Ortho and Endo have classically been the most competitive, not OMFS. It is true that OMFS can have a chill PP set up, but the training to get there is tougher than most dental students want to deal with, so there is a relatively small self-selecting group that goes after it.

Nice! I think I mentioned earlier that "lifestyle" was important to me, but in reality, I wouldn't mind working a lot of hours in something surgical because it is "hands on". I believe that if I went to Dental school, I would be going for OMFS from the get go because my personality has always been competitive and not settling for less. Believe me though, if matching into residency wasn't so uncertain, I would go to Medical school and do Orthopedics or Ophthalmology. Everything in the Medical field always seems to be based on test scores rather than actual experience or interest, which really bothers me. Anyways, I have a question for you: Do you think that if I went to dental school with the full intention of going OMFS I could do it?(Just assuming average grades, but above average interest and dedication to the field) Like I said earlier, I would be fine being a GP, but I think I would enjoy being an OMFS more.


Oh, and by the way, I find your posts very insightful and they have really helped me along with my thought process. How do you know so much about OMFS and Dentistry in general?

 

[Silent Cool]

Nice! I think I mentioned earlier that "lifestyle" was important to me, but in reality, I wouldn't mind working a lot of hours in something surgical because it is "hands on". I believe that if I went to Dental school, I would be going for OMFS from the get go because my personality has always been competitive and not settling for less. Believe me though, if matching into residency wasn't so uncertain, I would go to Medical school and do Orthopedics or Ophthalmology. Everything in the Medical field always seems to be based on test scores rather than actual experience or interest, which really bothers me.

I completely agree. It's unfortunate and didn't used to be that way. The way in which the Step 1 exam is currently being used was never how it was intended to be used. It is, fundamentally, meant to be a P/F exam to demonstrate that you have the minimum level of competence to move to the clinical stage of physician training. Its current usage (ie, score obsession) reflects more or less the gross pay disparity across physician fields. When I interviewed for dental school a few years back I brought up the transition of the part 1 exam from scored to P/F, and the interviewer said "It's interesting that you mention that because the exam wasn't designed to be a scored test."

Anyways, I have a question for you: Do you think that if I went to dental school with the full intention of going OMFS I could do it?(Just assuming average grades, but above average interest and dedication to the field) Like I said earlier, I would be fine being a GP, but I think I would enjoy being an OMFS more.

Yes, without a doubt. If you study hard in dental school you will have an excellent chance of specializing, especially in OMFS. As I said previously, most dental students don't want to specialize. If you work hard, you will almost certainly be able to. Keep your class rank in the top 50%, attend audition rotations, attempt to publish research, and get good rec letters. When you audition, work hard. If all else fails, complete an intern year and you will match somewhere. Perhaps most important: apply to as many programs as you can afford. Over on the orthodontic forum there are numerous examples of students applying to a handful of programs, when in fact they should be applying to 40-50 programs, as Dermatology hopefuls so often do. Translation: be willing to go anywhere and you will match. Trust me. Getting into OMFS isn't nearly as competitive as Ortho or Ophtho.

Oh, and by the way, I find your posts very insightful and they have really helped me along with my thought process. How do you know so much about OMFS and Dentistry in general?

Thanx. That's a loaded question with a loaded answer.

good luck.

 

[Sublimazing]

The cost of attendance is just an estimate...most people find ways to live below that number.

You can be on deferment in residency...i am right now...the only loans i have that are accruing interest are the unsubbed ones

And you dropped from 800k to 700k...i am not doubting that your numbers are possible, i'm just saying they are kind of worst case scenarios

I am around residents all day everyday...from all specialties and all dental schools and i've never met anyone with that kind of debt...and i just finished dental school 3 years ago so i'm not that far out of the game

 

[Glimmer1991]

Ya know, you don't HAVE to go into a specialty to do a specialist's work.

GPRs/AEGDs have stipends. I plan to do one (a good one, obviously) in order to become more comfortable with advanced dentistry. If your debt isn't crushing from undergrad and DS, I think the 55k/year stipend will be plenty to live on, though certainly nothing extravagant. I'd rather go into private practice feeling much more comfortable with difficult extractions, implants, etc. It's like paid CE.

And, to me, one of the biggest benefits of dentistry is hard to put a dollar amount on--the lifestyle it provides. I don't want to work all the time. I don't want to be on call all the time. I want to have plenty of time for my family. I don't want to be terribly stressed every day. Dentistry is a great fit for me. Sure, there are medical specialties that have similar benefits, but you aren't guaranteed to match into them. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, once you are accepted to dental school, you are guaranteed to have a "specialty" you like. (Unless you're going into dental school and would hate being a general dentist... in which case I think you're crazy!)

 

[Bereno]

I think some problems here are that you need to decide these things before entering the field you choose. Honestly, if you always second guess yourself or think that the other field could have been better, you will be unhappy regardless of the decision. I think that you need to find what is important to you (looks like you have) and stick with those basic principles. Can you be happy in medicine? Yes. Can you be happy in dentistry? Yes. Knowing this, the decision to be happy in your field depends more on you than it does on your field. Think critically about this, but don't over think it - you will go mad.

Much like @Contach said, I too went through many of the same decisions. I love working with my hands and also knew I wanted to be a surgeon, yet I chose dentistry. I am in my second year of dental school, studying for the CBSE hoping that I do well enough to match. I am killing myself studying because I really, really want it. The kicker is that even if I don't do well on the CBSE... I'm still happy. OK, maybe not "happy", but definitely content. The reason is that I am quite confident that I can still be a happy and successful GP. General dentistry is a wonderful alternative to my preferred path. I cannot say the same about medicine though since I knew that the alternatives to my preferred path in medicine would not be as satisfying to me. Like you, I would not want to do IM, FM, psych, etc. Considering a path without considering all the reasonably possible scenarios is foolish - I had to take into consideration that it is possible I did not match, and felt that I needed to be happy with the possible alternatives.

As an aside, some are saying medicine is the financially better option. This is tricky since I feel both fields will have a different landscape by the time you are practicing, and thus cannot be predicted. I do not think finances should be used to differentiate between dentistry and medicine, but I do think finances should be used to differentiate your path in that chosen field.

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

I think Medicine is VERY MUCH a financially safer bet, if your goal is to make sure you have a steady 200k+ job. With a slew of D-schools opening all over the place and boomers putting off retirement and other factors, dentists are going to see profits decline.

But medicine comes with HUGE disadvantages. Reimbursements are going down drastically for specialists, the prospect of private practice is dimmer than ever due to Obamacare and increasing regulations, the legal climate for doctors is pis.s poor, you'll probably have to work in a hospital which is the most challenging work environment in the country (dealing with hospital administration, egotistical nurses, patients unreasonable demands, dealing with other doctors [office politics], etc). Also, medical residencies can be brutal and can delay your desire to get into the 'real world' and make money.

The work environment is dentistry is much better (more likely to have your own practice if debt is low) and I also feel that dentistry is a lot less emotionally and mentally draining than medicine. Because of this, I'll be more able to use my free time to work towards building some side business that won't make me rely on dentistry as my sole income source.

If you're going into medicine, do psych. Easy job, residency isn't too bad, stress-free hours, and incomes are going up for them due to recent increasing focus on mental issues by the government

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Ya know, you don't HAVE to go into a specialty to do a specialist's work.

GPRs/AEGDs have stipends. I plan to do one (a good one, obviously) in order to become more comfortable with advanced dentistry. If your debt isn't crushing from undergrad and DS, I think the 55k/year stipend will be plenty to live on, though certainly nothing extravagant. I'd rather go into private practice feeling much more comfortable with difficult extractions, implants, etc. It's like paid CE.

And, to me, one of the biggest benefits of dentistry is hard to put a dollar amount on--the lifestyle it provides. I don't want to work all the time. I don't want to be on call all the time. I want to have plenty of time for my family. I don't want to be terribly stressed every day. Dentistry is a great fit for me. Sure, there are medical specialties that have similar benefits, but you aren't guaranteed to match into them. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, once you are accepted to dental school, you are guaranteed to have a "specialty" you like. (Unless you're going into dental school and would hate being a general dentist... in which case I think you're crazy!)

Yeah, the GP I shadowed did a Hospital-based GPR and he does implants. However, an OMFS does WAY more than just implants, so I guess I'll just have to see once I get into dental school which seems like the better option. I totally agree with everything you said about the lifestyle benefits: I heard people say that Physicians live to work, and Dentists work to live. I guess you just have to do some soul searching and see what the best fit is for your future ambitions. I know that I will always want a life outside of my career because I have so many hobbies I enjoy.

 

[Silent Cool]

The cost of attendance is just an estimate...most people find ways to live below that number.

Having borrowed money now several times, my experience is the opposite--costs have a way of creeping up, especially in expensive cities. In fact, I've had to borrow additional money to make ends meet.

You can be on deferment in residency...i am right now...the only loans i have that are accruing interest are the unsubbed ones

All loans are now unsubsidized. Our wonderful government did away with subsidized loans several years ago. That means someone coming through now will have all of his/her loans gaining interest.

And you dropped from 800k to 700k...i am not doubting that your numbers are possible, i'm just saying they are kind of worst case scenarios

My point was that for someone coming out of just a four-year program, their debt could reasonably be 700K with ~50K of undergrad debt (reasonable) and a private dental school debt.

I am around residents all day everyday...from all specialties and all dental schools and i've never met anyone with that kind of debt...and i just finished dental school 3 years ago so i'm not that far out of the game

That means you started dental school with subsidized loans and back when costs across the board were much more reasonable. Did you attend a private dental school? I have a friend who graduated from one of the private dental schools I mentioned above. She graduated in 2011, probably the same year you did. Her graduating loan balance? 500k. And that's with ZERO undergrad debt.

 

[Sublimazing]

I did not know theyre all unsubbed now...that would make a big difference you're right.

 

[Silent Cool]

I did not know theyre all unsubbed now...that would make a big difference you're right.

Yup. The lending system has become very predatory and in so doing destroyed incentive to pursue a great profession like dentistry. It's unfortunate. All I can think is that the U.S. will experience a significant period of inflation, which should eat into the debt. But of course--the gubbmin't, in its infinite wisdom, is going to screw students even more by raising interest interest rates. That is reminiscent of what they did in the 1980s, when interest rates were double digits. The difference, however, is that the principal balances lent then were very modest. Now, the principals are multiples of one's income, AND students are getting/will be getting screwed with higher interest rates.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Yup. The lending system has become very predatory and in so doing destroyed incentive to pursue a great profession like dentistry. It's unfortunate. All I can think is that the U.S. will experience a significant period of inflation, which should eat into the debt. But of course--the gubbmin't, in its infinite wisdom, is going to screw students even more by raising interest interest rates. That is reminiscent of what they did in the 1980s, when interest rates were double digits. The difference, however, is that the principal balances lent then were very modest. Now, the principals are multiples of one's income, AND students are getting/will be getting screwed with higher interest rates.

The way it stands, my instate Dental school is around 50k more than the Medical school. My parents said they would pay for all of my tuition, but I think I want to go half and half with them because they are paying for my undergrad too. So this means I would probably finish dental school with about 125-150k of debt. Does that seem manageable even if I don't go OMFS?

 

[Silent Cool]

The way it stands, my instate Dental school is around 50k more than the Medical school. My parents said they would pay for all of my tuition, but I think I want to go half and half with them because they are paying for my undergrad too. So this means I would probably finish dental school with about 125-150k of debt. Does that seem manageable even if I don't go OMFS?

Yes, absolutely. That's a helluva deal. I'd say that's what dental students across the board SHOULD owe when they finish, and they shouldn't have to accrue any interest until graduation.

 

[fellowstudent92]

Yes, absolutely. That's a helluva deal. I'd say that's what dental students across the board SHOULD owe when they finish, and they shouldn't have to accrue any interest until graduation.

That's basically my situation too. Count your stars and don't look back!

 

[ncamc]

When I was considering medicine and dentistry in college, I thought about things like how I enjoy working with my hands, time involved with getting the education, happiness, location, and lifestyle. I also took into consideration what kind of family man I wanted to be once graduated. The shadowing I did also played a large role in my decision. I dont think it is a quantitative decision because you are comparing apples and oranges. The decision is different for everyone, and ultimately you should go with your gut / what you think will make you happy. I wouldn't over think it because there is so much information out there, and so many opinions as well. Lastly, considering specialties is somewhat useless in undergrad in my opinion; it's good to have goals and fun to day dream, but that decision comes way, way later.

 

[sgv]

Lastly, considering specialties is somewhat useless in undergrad in my opinion; it's good to have goals and fun to day dream, but that decision comes way, way later.

idk man. most of the omfs residents that i've met said they've wanted omfs before dental school

 

[ncamc]

I hear ya haha, there are always exceptions to any generalization

 

[bambam92]

I am currently deciding whether to go to Dental school or Medical school. My heart was solely set on pursuing Medicine until I learned about the whole concept of "matching" into a specialty, and unfortunately, the only medical specialties I'm interested in happen to be highly competitive(Ophthalmology, Radiology). I would absolutely not be happy with being a Family Practice or Internal Medicine doctor, so I'm scared that if I went to Medical school and didn't score well enough on USMLE Step 1, then I wouldn't be able to practice in the area of Medicine I wanted. However, for Dentistry, I would be completely happy being a doing general practice at a private practice, but I would still have the option of doing something more surgical like Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery if I was competitive enough. What I'm basically saying is that I have no idea how competitive I will be for residency matching, so I have been telling myself that I should go with Dentistry because I have the safety net of enjoying my work as a GP. But deep down, I still think that being an Ophthalmologist would be more personally fulfilling for me. Hence, I am left not knowing what to do at all........


I just want to know how you guys dealt with the whole Med vs. Dent thing. I really need some advice from people who have been through this situation.

Yeah, I see your problem. You seem like a manic loon. Going off on all these crazy tangents, just stick to one thing. Either profession you will be in the top 1% of earners in the world. Also consult a psych. like asap. Your posts are borderline concerning. P.S. if you only see yourself being happy in medicine if you match into optho (one of the MOST competitive med specialties) lay off the kool aid, don't go to med school. Before going to med school you should at least be content with being a primary care doc incase it happens. Likewise, you should be content before going to dental school being a GP if thats what the course takes. What did you end up deciding on?

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Premier Dental Group is committed to providing each patient with an exceptional level of care and attention. The technicians were friendly and seemed knowledgeable. Premier Dental Group provide the highest quality dental care. It is really rocks.

Seems legit......

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Yeah, I see your problem. You seem like a manic loon. Going off on all these crazy tangents, just stick to one thing. Either profession you will be in the top 1% of earners in the world. Also consult a psych. like asap. Your posts are borderline concerning. P.S. if you only see yourself being happy in medicine if you match into optho (one of the MOST competitive med specialties) lay off the kool aid, don't go to med school. Before going to med school you should at least be content with being a primary care doc incase it happens. Likewise, you should be content before going to dental school being a GP if thats what the course takes. What did you end up deciding on?

So actually spending some time to think deep about the career I will have for the rest of my life makes me a loon? I didn't know that. You are a loon if you think someone shouldn't consider all of the aspects I have mentioned in this thread before deciding their path. And I can't really see where you found my "crazy tangents". All of my posts on this thread have been about the medical/dental fields. I never said anywhere that I was worried about the money, but you are wrong when you say that either would gain me a spot in the top 1% of earners. That's not true; more likely the top 5-8%.

 

[ncamc]

Don't let anyone on here bother you. It is great that you are taking time to make the decision

 

[kidsaremypassion]

Op, the biggest thing is figuring out what you want out of life. If you would not be happy working in a hospital environment with the sick and wounded day in and day out, if you don't like dealing with the bureaucracy of administration, then the MD may not be for you.
I also made this very same decision years ago, with both of my parents as MDs by the way. I feel like ive indirectly lived the life of an MD, and I just wasnt in love.However, I shadowed a pediatric dental office and I was sold. My externships and ahadowing within pediatric dental offices simply confirmed what I knew was right for me all along. How much time have you spent in a general hospital watching FM, IM, or general surgeons?
I think there is so much financial uncertainty across the board right now in all health care fields that I am very wary of making decisions based on projected future income, especially if you aren't going to be going into much debt for either path. What Profession Would You Be Happy Working within day In And Day out? What Amt of income do you feel would allow you to provide a comfortable living for your future family? Where do you best feel you can make an impact in your community?
I also applaud you for thinking about this early on. Too many students just follow a prescribed path or do what everyone else is doing..This is your life, and it deserves much thought.
Just some things to think about.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

Op, the biggest thing is figuring out what you want out of life. If you would not be happy working in a hospital environment with the sick and wounded day in and day out, if you don't like dealing with the bureaucracy of administration, then the MD may not be for you.
I also made this very same decision years ago, with both of my parents as MDs by the way. I feel like ive indirectly lived the life of an MD, and I just wasnt in love.However, I shadowed a pediatric dental office and I was sold. My externships and ahadowing within pediatric dental offices simply confirmed what I knew was right for me all along. How much time have you spent in a general hospital watching FM, IM, or general surgeons?
I think there is so much financial uncertainty across the board right now in all health care fields that I am very wary of making decisions based on projected future income, especially if you aren't going to be going into much debt for either path. What Profession Would You Be Happy Working within day In And Day out? What Amt of income do you feel would allow you to provide a comfortable living for your future family? Where do you best feel you can make an impact in your community?
I also applaud you for thinking about this early on. Too many students just follow a prescribed path or do what everyone else is doing..This is your life, and it deserves much thought.
Just some things to think about.

Thanks for the advice. Really, I value my time greatly because I just see the beauty of life and want to live every moment to the fullest. In terms of salary, I know that I can live the life I want on 150-200k, so money is not really a factor in which path I choose. If I go Medicine, I would certainly either want to be in Ophthalmology or Emergency Medicine because both fields offer me the amount of money I want to make, and they have great hours. EM is shift work, and I know that comes with doing overnights and weekends, but I am a self-proclaimed night owl, and working a weekend ain't so bad when you have the rest of the week off. I have 8 hours of shadowing a GP Dentist right now, and I plan to go shadow at another practice, and even try to experience the world of OMFS. I don't know if I said this earlier or not, but I am totally a "hands on " type of guy; I want to be the one doing the work, and one of the most gratifying things for me in life is to see my the finished product of my work. I will have to shadow in the ER to be sure, but I think Emergency Medicine appeals to me simply because it is so varied in the work you do, and I like the idea of going to work and not knowing exactly is going to happen. Anyways, there was a time when I was more focused on the money, but now I realize that the most important thing is finding a career where I wake up in the morning and look forward to driving to work. Thanks again for your input!