Do you think I have big red flag in my application besides my GPA/MCAT?

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Actually, you said that. I don't want to detail OP's thread though. OP, chances are your application is fine, and you'll see some love later on. Do your research and apply where you want.

I'm a little scared now because I didn't know that as a re-applicant, I will automatically have a lower chance. That makes things even worse. It feels like an impossible, uphill battle. Even if I was to do a post-bacc this Winter, Spring, and Summer...I would have lower chances even if I did well?!

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Also what happens if one was to perform well in a post-bacc? My GPA is so saturated that it would not move very much. I do remember Goro once saying that it is considered to be transcript repair, and not GPA repair. In other words, evidence of consistent success.
 
Also what happens if one was to perform well in a post-bacc? My GPA is so saturated that it would not move very much. I do remember Goro once saying that it is considered to be transcript repair, and not GPA repair. In other words, evidence of consistent success.
Agree with bolded.
 
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I'm a little scared now because I didn't know that as a re-applicant, I will automatically have a lower chance. That makes things even worse. It feels like an impossible, uphill battle. Even if I was to do a post-bacc this Winter, Spring, and Summer...I would have lower chances even if I did well?!

Not impossible. Re-applicants can get accepted. If there is a will, there is a way. It it's what you want, dig deep my friend.
The key is identifying your weaknesses and addressing them. Taking PB courses is not the end of the world. Not only, will taking relevant science courses keep you mentally sharp, they can improve your overall medical knowledge. Students who take immunology or endocrinology in a PB would be at advantage in 1st/2nd year courses.

As noted above... for students w/ low GPA - the goal is to prove that the "you of now" is no longer the "you of the past" (once you are past the GPA screening). Not all MD schools agree w/ this philosophy, but, to my knowledge, all DO schools do believe this.
 
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Guys, guys. It's okay. I'm the only one with the bad CARS score here haha (124).
Idk what I said to cause such a stir. AnatomyGrey is a well respected member on here whose advice I usually agree with lol. Again, I apologize.
 
I'm a little scared now because I didn't know that as a re-applicant, I will automatically have a lower chance. That makes things even worse. It feels like an impossible, uphill battle. Even if I was to do a post-bacc this Winter, Spring, and Summer...I would have lower chances even if I did well?!
Statistics simply show that reapplicants have a lower % of getting in. Idk where that difference in % comes from however. Perhaps @gonnif can explain as I think I may've seen them mention this in the past.
 
Not impossible. Re-applicants can get accepted. If there is a will, there is a way. It it's what you want, dig deep my friend.
The key is identifying your weaknesses and addressing them. Taking PB courses is not the end of the world. Not only, will taking relevant science courses keep you mentally sharp, they can improve your overall medical knowledge. Students who take immunology or endocrinology in a PB would be at advantage in 1st/2nd year courses.

As noted above... for students w/ low GPA - the goal is to prove that the "you of now" is no longer the "you of the past" (once you are past the GPA screening). Not all MD schools agree w/ this philosophy, but, to my knowledge, all DO schools do believe this.

The PB is not an issue. I already applied for thia Winter Quarter. I am taking:

Anatomy
Physiology
Immunology
Medical Microbiology
Biochemistry
Parasitology
Virology

(NOT altogether)
 
Though statistics do so that re-applicants have a lower rate of acceptance, it doesn't truly define whether or not you will get it. If you do a post-bacc and excel in those courses, it repairs your transcript in that it indicates the previous "you" who earned the lower stats is different from the current, who is capable of succeeding. This is why some schools reward re-invention. Not saying that this will be the case for you personally as it is still early into the DO cycle, but it's nice to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Best of luck!
 
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The PB is not an issue. I already applied for thia Winter Quarter. I am taking:

Anatomy
Physiology
Immunology
Medical Microbiology
Biochemistry
Parasitology
Virology

I mean - I think you have a legit shot to obtain II this cycle.
If it doesn't work out, those classes look good. If you take those and get 3.7-4.0 you will put yourself in a great position. Solid backup plan = success. And believe me... I am applying May 2018 - there isn't a day I get antsy thinking about my friends in med school or how I should be there now. Its tough... but as Goro says... It's a marathon, not a sprint. In the long run, when you are 65 years old prepping for retirement after practicing x 30+ years, you are not going to look so critically at taking 1 or 2 years off before attending med school.

Also... I know there is a reason they are called "osteopathic underdogs", but there is some substance to those applications. Really see what kids w/ low stats are doing to get into med school. I've private messaged a couple of them and they have provided very helpful feedback.
 
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I'm a little scared now because I didn't know that as a re-applicant, I will automatically have a lower chance.

Not necessarily true, depends on how much you change your app honestly. See the last post I quote here.

Also what happens if one was to perform well in a post-bacc?

It could only help, as your GPA is what I perceive to be your biggest issue.

Idk what I said to cause such a stir. AnatomyGrey is a well respected member on here whose advice I usually agree with lol. Again, I apologize.

I apologize, I'm a little testy this weekend with two exams. My fault.

Though statistics do so that re-applicants have a lower rate of acceptance, it doesn't truly define whether or not you will get it.

This.

OP I really would be suprised if you ended this cycle without at least one interview, most likely two.
 
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Not to be an ass, but is it really that shocking that you're getting several rejections with both a below average gpa AND a below average mcat? It kind of boggles my mind that this is suprising to you.

I don't understand why SDN tells a 502/3.2 student "you're good for DO." I know lots of students with much better stats who got no acceptances to any DO schools. For a 502/3.2, statistics say that those numbers are "possible, but still not likely." The problem is that lots of those lucky few post a lot on SDN. At DOs, Lots of matriculating students have lowish GPAs, and lots of have bad mcats, but very few students have both.

"Apply to the New Schools" does not mean "you'll get multiple acceptances because they're desperate." It means that your chances of getting at least one acceptance will be marginally higher if you focus on them.

I'm sorry if I sound bitter, but the fact that this is surprising to you irks me. Really, you're surprised that BCOM rejected you? Even a new DO school has an acceptance rate of like 5% tops. I applied very broadly to DOs with 34 mcat and a 3.2 gpa. I barely even got an interview because it turns out that a 3.2 GPA is BAD. I had to spend 1.5 years working my butt off in a masters program to get into medical school.

There's no red flag. Just bad numbers.

Okay, angry bitter rant over.

3-4 rejections at this point means nothing. Even the best applicants will get several rejections early on in the interview cycle - it doesn't matter which schools rejected you (I was convinced UNECOM would interview me. They didnt.) You have NO idea what reasons they had. Plus, the rejections usually come first. If you applied early, your IIs should arrive September-November. Hell, I got 3 IIs after February.

I 100% agree with this. OP, any other red flags aside, your GPA and MCAT are both low and you should not be at all surprised to be rejected pre-II from any DO school. New school or not, you are not a competitive applicant stats-wise. If DO schools ever want to gain equivalent credibility with MD schools (or as close as they feasibly can), it starts with having higher admission standards. Not to be a jerk, but a 502/3.2 should not be much of a medical school contender without extenuating reasons for those grades and MCAT score.
 

That page actually has some really solid advice.

It's important to note (and they mention this, but not well) that being a re-applicant doesn't actually give you a lower chance of admission. Being a re-applicant who hasn't changed much since last cycle, however, does, and statistically most re-applicants haven't changed enough.
 
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I 100% agree with this. OP, any other red flags aside, your GPA and MCAT are both low and you should not be at all surprised to be rejected pre-II from any DO school. New school or not, you are not a competitive applicant stats-wise. If DO schools ever want to gain equivalent credibility with MD schools (or as close as they feasibly can), it starts with having higher admission standards. Not to be a jerk, but a 502/3.2 should not be much of a medical school contender without extenuating reasons for those grades and MCAT score.

I know :(. I am aiming for a January post-bacc (Winter, Spring, and Summer) to demonstrate my ability to succeed and my dedication towards Medicine. I apologize for sounding entitled to an interview.
 
That page actually has some really solid advice.

It's important to note (and they mention this, but not well) that being a re-applicant doesn't actually give you a lower chance of admission. Being a re-applicant who hasn't changed much since last cycle, however, does, and statistically most re-applicants haven't changed enough.

Changes I plan to make:

1. Will start post-bacc this January and will try to do well in 41 quarter (27 semester) units taking Anatomy, Physiology, Medical Microbiology, Immunology, Parasitology, Genetics, Biochemistry, and Virology.

2. Will shadow another DO to get more shadowing experience, and a chance to shadow a new specialty...maybe get a new DO letter.

3. I am going to start community service to gain some non-clinical volunteering experience.

What do you think?
 
Changes I plan to make:

1. Will start post-bacc this January and will try to do well in 41 quarter (27 semester) units taking Anatomy, Physiology, Medical Microbiology, Immunology, Parasitology, Genetics, Biochemistry, and Virology.

2. Will shadow another DO to get more shadowing experience, and a chance to shadow a new specialty...maybe get a new DO letter.

3. I am going to start community service to gain some non-clinical volunteering experience.

What do you think?

1) Good call. Just make sure you're taking *upper level* bio classes at a 4 year college or masters/MBS. Community college credits probably aren't gonna cut it here.

2) Don't stress the DO letter thing so much. Once you've gotten a *strong* LOR from a physician, MD or DO, you're good. Very few schools actually require a DO letter. Many "recommend" one, but this is usually a minor thing. After you check that box, IMO, shadowing is a waste of time. You already have 1000 hours of clinical experience, man. Don't waste your time.

3) If you've already done clinical volunteering, there's no reason for you to do "non-clinical" volunteering.

It seems to me that your ECs/volunteering/LORs are already pretty strong. Don't waste your time bolstering your strengths - patch up your weaknesses. Your priority should be racking up As and building a strong GPA. If you start cranking out As in challenging classes, THEN you can start thinking of screwing around with ECs. *Maybe* start thinking of re-taking he MCAT.
 
I forgot to mention this - and this is really important!!

Don't take a ton of classes at once. NEVER take more classes than you can get an A in. If that's 2-3 classes, then take 2-3 classes.

Believe me, I understand the temptation to load up on credits. You want to make sure you get in next cycle, and you're afraid that the classes you took won't be enough. Two things:

1) If take 5-6 classes at once and end up with a bunch of Bs, then you've f**ked yourself. You can work your way up to that. Worst case scenario, It's not the worst thing to wait another 2 cycles before getting in.

2) if you only take, say, 3 credits in spring and 2-3 over the summer, that might get you more interviews. Keep taking classes through the fall as you're interviewing, and then spring if you have no acceptances by then.
 
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There was also some problem the the Dean, right? I can see why LUCOM would have a bad reputation because of that. Is UIWSOM not in the same ballpark?

I would not confuse LUCOM with Liberty University. Yes, LUCOM is the medical branch, but from what I've heard from students that interviewed there (and one who attended), it's very different from the philosophies put forward by the parent university. There are a few schools I did not apply to and personally feel like should not have accreditation. LUCOM is not one of them.

I'm a little scared now because I didn't know that as a re-applicant, I will automatically have a lower chance. That makes things even worse. It feels like an impossible, uphill battle. Even if I was to do a post-bacc this Winter, Spring, and Summer...I would have lower chances even if I did well?!

Depends on your overall app. If you don't get in, on the second cycle you have to have an answer for the question "what have you done since you last application that makes you worthy of an interview?"

Changes I plan to make:

1. Will start post-bacc this January and will try to do well in 41 quarter (27 semester) units taking Anatomy, Physiology, Medical Microbiology, Immunology, Parasitology, Genetics, Biochemistry, and Virology.

2. Will shadow another DO to get more shadowing experience, and a chance to shadow a new specialty...maybe get a new DO letter.

3. I am going to start community service to gain some non-clinical volunteering experience.

What do you think?

1. The post-bac will help. If you can get a 3.8+ (assuming it's a legitimate university/program) it will absolutely help to show you're capable of doing grad level work.

2. Might help you get a little more exposure, but probably isn't going to add much if anything to your app in the eyes of adcoms.

3. Depending on how involved you get, this could be big or insignificant. Completely depends on the service, how many hours you put in, and how much you get accomplished if it's measurable.

To give you an idea, I actually applied in 3 cycles (second cycle was unsuccessful for reasons I won't get into, but would have been had certain events not occurred). Between my first and final cycles, I had a very different application. I'd done a graduate degree (with ~3.8 GPA), I'd added around 300 hours of clinical volunteering, a research experience, several part-time jobs including one relevant to medicine (all totaling a couple thousand hours), got updated LoRs, and made sure to express in my personal statement and secondaries how I had improved as a person because of these experiences and just in general.

If you don't get in the first time (not saying you won't, just general advice), you should do your best to address any short-comings in your application in tangible ways that adcoms can point to on paper. If you look like pretty much the same applicant on paper, you're not ready to re-apply. For you, the big thing is acing upper/grad level courses to show you can handle med school coursework. Also, the community service will help as long as it's "worthwhile" (ie, regular service and not 1-2 hours a month type of deal). Finally, I'd call places that sent you secondaries but not ii's. I called about 20 after my second cycle, while a lot of it was pretty redundant with some BS, I also got some really good advice from a few places and my final cycle was much more successful.
 
1) Good call. Just make sure you're taking *upper level* bio classes at a 4 year college or masters/MBS. Community college credits probably aren't gonna cut it here.

2) Don't stress the DO letter thing so much. Once you've gotten a *strong* LOR from a physician, MD or DO, you're good. Very few schools actually require a DO letter. Many "recommend" one, but this is usually a minor thing. After you check that box, IMO, shadowing is a waste of time. You already have 1000 hours of clinical experience, man. Don't waste your time.

3) If you've already done clinical volunteering, there's no reason for you to do "non-clinical" volunteering.

It seems to me that your ECs/volunteering/LORs are already pretty strong. Don't waste your time bolstering your strengths - patch up your weaknesses. Your priority should be racking up As and building a strong GPA. If you start cranking out As in challenging classes, THEN you can start thinking of screwing around with ECs. *Maybe* start thinking of re-taking he MCAT.

Yes the post-bacc is a formal/structured post-bacc, but they are accepting students for Winter quarter. It is at California State University, East Bay.

The only reason I am thinking about another DO letter is because my DO letter might be lukewarm.

Really? Someone told me I need clinical and non-clinical :O
 
I would not confuse LUCOM with Liberty University. Yes, LUCOM is the medical branch, but from what I've heard from students that interviewed there (and one who attended), it's very different from the philosophies put forward by the parent university. There are a few schools I did not apply to and personally feel like should not have accreditation. LUCOM is not one of them.



Depends on your overall app. If you don't get in, on the second cycle you have to have an answer for the question "what have you done since you last application that makes you worthy of an interview?"



1. The post-bac will help. If you can get a 3.8+ (assuming it's a legitimate university/program) it will absolutely help to show you're capable of doing grad level work.

2. Might help you get a little more exposure, but probably isn't going to add much if anything to your app in the eyes of adcoms.

3. Depending on how involved you get, this could be big or insignificant. Completely depends on the service, how many hours you put in, and how much you get accomplished if it's measurable.

To give you an idea, I actually applied in 3 cycles (second cycle was unsuccessful for reasons I won't get into, but would have been had certain events not occurred). Between my first and final cycles, I had a very different application. I'd done a graduate degree (with ~3.8 GPA), I'd added around 300 hours of clinical volunteering, a research experience, several part-time jobs including one relevant to medicine (all totaling a couple thousand hours), got updated LoRs, and made sure to express in my personal statement and secondaries how I had improved as a person because of these experiences and just in general.

If you don't get in the first time (not saying you won't, just general advice), you should do your best to address any short-comings in your application in tangible ways that adcoms can point to on paper. If you look like pretty much the same applicant on paper, you're not ready to re-apply. For you, the big thing is acing upper/grad level courses to show you can handle med school coursework. Also, the community service will help as long as it's "worthwhile" (ie, regular service and not 1-2 hours a month type of deal). Finally, I'd call places that sent you secondaries but not ii's. I called about 20 after my second cycle, while a lot of it was pretty redundant with some BS, I also got some really good advice from a few places and my final cycle was much more successful.[
I would not confuse LUCOM with Liberty University. Yes, LUCOM is the medical branch, but from what I've heard from students that interviewed there (and one who attended), it's very different from the philosophies put forward by the parent university. There are a few schools I did not apply to and personally feel like should not have accreditation. LUCOM is not one of them.



Depends on your overall app. If you don't get in, on the second cycle you have to have an answer for the question "what have you done since you last application that makes you worthy of an interview?"



1. The post-bac will help. If you can get a 3.8+ (assuming it's a legitimate university/program) it will absolutely help to show you're capable of doing grad level work.

2. Might help you get a little more exposure, but probably isn't going to add much if anything to your app in the eyes of adcoms.

3. Depending on how involved you get, this could be big or insignificant. Completely depends on the service, how many hours you put in, and how much you get accomplished if it's measurable.

To give you an idea, I actually applied in 3 cycles (second cycle was unsuccessful for reasons I won't get into, but would have been had certain events not occurred). Between my first and final cycles, I had a very different application. I'd done a graduate degree (with ~3.8 GPA), I'd added around 300 hours of clinical volunteering, a research experience, several part-time jobs including one relevant to medicine (all totaling a couple thousand hours), got updated LoRs, and made sure to express in my personal statement and secondaries how I had improved as a person because of these experiences and just in general.

If you don't get in the first time (not saying you won't, just general advice), you should do your best to address any short-comings in your application in tangible ways that adcoms can point to on paper. If you look like pretty much the same applicant on paper, you're not ready to re-apply. For you, the big thing is acing upper/grad level courses to show you can handle med school coursework. Also, the community service will help as long as it's "worthwhile" (ie, regular service and not 1-2 hours a month type of deal). Finally, I'd call places that sent you secondaries but not ii's. I called about 20 after my second cycle, while a lot of it was pretty redundant with some BS, I also got some really good advice from a few places and my final cycle was much more successful.

So would you recommend that I add LUCOM to my list?

My post-bacc will be at California State University, East Bay and it is a formal, structured post-bacc. They are accepting students for Winter Quarter.
 
I would not confuse LUCOM with Liberty University. Yes, LUCOM is the medical branch, but from what I've heard from students that interviewed there (and one who attended), it's very different from the philosophies put forward by the parent university. There are a few schools I did not apply to and personally feel like should not have accreditation. LUCOM is not one of them.



Depends on your overall app. If you don't get in, on the second cycle you have to have an answer for the question "what have you done since you last application that makes you worthy of an interview?"



1. The post-bac will help. If you can get a 3.8+ (assuming it's a legitimate university/program) it will absolutely help to show you're capable of doing grad level work.

2. Might help you get a little more exposure, but probably isn't going to add much if anything to your app in the eyes of adcoms.

3. Depending on how involved you get, this could be big or insignificant. Completely depends on the service, how many hours you put in, and how much you get accomplished if it's measurable.

To give you an idea, I actually applied in 3 cycles (second cycle was unsuccessful for reasons I won't get into, but would have been had certain events not occurred). Between my first and final cycles, I had a very different application. I'd done a graduate degree (with ~3.8 GPA), I'd added around 300 hours of clinical volunteering, a research experience, several part-time jobs including one relevant to medicine (all totaling a couple thousand hours), got updated LoRs, and made sure to express in my personal statement and secondaries how I had improved as a person because of these experiences and just in general.

If you don't get in the first time (not saying you won't, just general advice), you should do your best to address any short-comings in your application in tangible ways that adcoms can point to on paper. If you look like pretty much the same applicant on paper, you're not ready to re-apply. For you, the big thing is acing upper/grad level courses to show you can handle med school coursework. Also, the community service will help as long as it's "worthwhile" (ie, regular service and not 1-2 hours a month type of deal). Finally, I'd call places that sent you secondaries but not ii's. I called about 20 after my second cycle, while a lot of it was pretty redundant with some BS, I also got some really good advice from a few places and my final cycle was much more successful.

So would you recommend that I add LUCOM to my list?

My post-bacc will be at California State University, East Bay and it is a formal, structured post-bacc. They are accepting students for Winter Quarter.
 
Yes the post-bacc is a formal/structured post-bacc, but they are accepting students for Winter quarter. It is at California State University, East Bay.

The only reason I am thinking about another DO letter is because my DO letter might be lukewarm.

Really? Someone told me I need clinical and non-clinical :O

Applying to medical school isn't totally formulaic. You should not do something just to check a box. Instead, you should be putting together a solid narrative for why you want to go to medical school and become a doctor, and then support that narrative with ECs. Hell, there are people who get into medical school each year without doing any volunteering - it's pretty unusual, and I have no idea what the hell they're doing to offset that, but it goes to show that there isn't just a set of things you must do (outside of MCAT and pre-reqs) to get in. So, my advice would not be to just volunteer somewhere so you can say you have clinical this and non-clinical that, but to do something that you can later point to as a supporting piece to your overall theme of why you want to go to medial school.
 
So would you recommend that I add LUCOM to my list?

My post-bacc will be at California State University, East Bay and it is a formal, structured post-bacc. They are accepting students for Winter Quarter.

If you are certain you don't want to go there, then no. If you really just want to go to medical school and don't mind where you are for 4 years, then you should add it. My point was that while LUCOM is associated with a university that has a less-than-desirable reputation, the medical school is a separate entity with separate administration, professors, curriculum, and apparently class demographic (as there are several muslim students who attend the med school). I doubt that residency directors will blacklist applicants from there just because of the med school they attend, but seeing as this is their first class going through the match we will find that out soon. Keep in mind also, they are a new school and like any new school they'll still be working out kinks in curriculum and other aspects, so caution there (along with any other schools that you applied to that opened in the past 3-5 years).

Applying to medical school isn't totally formulaic. You should not do something just to check a box. Instead, you should be putting together a solid narrative for why you want to go to medical school and become a doctor, and then support that narrative with ECs. Hell, there are people who get into medical school each year without doing any volunteering - it's pretty unusual, and I have no idea what the hell they're doing to offset that, but it goes to show that there isn't just a set of things you must do (outside of MCAT and pre-reqs) to get in. So, my advice would not be to just volunteer somewhere so you can say you have clinical this and non-clinical that, but to do something that you can later point to as a supporting piece to your overall theme of why you want to go to medial school.

I agree it's more than just checking boxes, but the bottom line is that the more well-rounded an applicant is the better off they'll be. Imo that's where the checklist comes in. I also agree that if your app can tell a story it's helpful although I know plenty of people whose apps did not that got in just fine.

The people that don't have any volunteering have other areas with significant contributions that make their app stand out. Many are non-trads who had careers before med school. Some have extensive research with publications. Others had significant job experience in medicine during college (had a friend who worked almost full-time as an EMT throughout college, so he didn't have time to volunteer) or worked for non-profit organizations. You don't need to check off every box, you just have to make sure your application conveys you're more than "just statistics" and that you're capable of committing to a long-term project/goal.
 
I GOT A MEDICAL SCHOOL INTERVIEW INVITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Being picky comes after multiple acceptances. Absolutely apply to these 2. Once you're accepted to 2+ schools then you can decide if going to LUCOM is a good idea and decide if you're sure about ARCOM.
I can't agree more! I went to my first interview thinking "I don't care what I think of this school, I just want an acceptance." I wouldn't have cared if they gave a speech on how 50% of their students end up commited to a mental hospital. But after my first acceptance, I went to my next interviews thinking "What can this school do for me?" Interviews definitely have a different feeling when you've already been accepted. Before that, it's "plz for the love of god let me go to your school".
 
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I can't agree more! I went to my first interview thinking "I don't care what I think of this school, I just want an acceptance." I wouldn't have cared if they gave a speech on how 50% of their students end up commited to a mental hospital. But after my first acceptance, I went to my next interviews thinking "What can this school do for me?" Interviews definitely have a different feeling when you've already been accepted. Before that, it's "plz for the love of god let me go to your school".

GOT THAT FIRST II!
 
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Thank you everyone for being a really good support group. I cannot explain this level of happiness right now....but....I JUST GOT MY SECOND INTERVIEW INVITE!!!! (ATSU-SOMA)
 
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Thank you everyone for being a really good support group. I cannot explain this level of happiness right now....but....I JUST GOT MY SECOND INTERVIEW INVITE!!!! (ATSU-SOMA)

We rolling now.
 
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