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My dream is to be a doctor for the poor in Africa or India. But I am 27 years old and though I have a B.A. in English from UCSB I don't have any pre-meds. Plus my G.P.A. for my B.A. is only 2.5. So my questions are:

1) Should I do a post bacc
2) Will the Medical Schools ignore my low G.P.A. for my English undergraduate degree if I get a 3.9 or 3.5 G.P.A. in pre-meds
3) Should I do the 2 years of pre-meds at a community college or a post bacc
4) Any advice in regards for being a doctor for Medicins Sans Frontiers or working at a simple clinic in Africa or India for the poor once I do finish my medical school studies (if I do:))
5) What else should I do or plan to do in order to get accepted to medical schools (i.e. volunteer etc.)

Thank you so much,
Truse

You will NEED to do post-bac work in order to gain admission. Perhaps if you get a 3.9 GPA in your pre-med classes you will have a chance. The admissions boards will not ignore anything you have done. You have a 2.5 ungrad GPA and most matriculants have a 3.5. Your MCAT will also help or hurt you further, depending on your score. I would suggest that you complete your pre-reqs at the best school you can gain admission to have any kind of chance. It is still a long shot and US Allo is probably not likely without some kind of outstanding performance.

To work in Africa is a personal choice. Unless you already have money you will be paying off your loans for decades and working for peanuts. Have you ever been to Africa? The people there can be highly frustrating due to their lack of motivation to stay healthy. The overall societies are a major problem. You will be fighting a losing battle on the majority but a few triumphs will provide some pleasure and satisfaction. I wouldn't even worry about this until you get into med school as it is many years off anyways.
 

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Your intentions are very noble and espouse the altruistic idealism which should live in every health care professional. A few thoughts in response to your post, in no particular order:

- Your undergrad GPA will be important, regardless of your major. Getting as close to a 4.0 as possible in post-bacc science courses will certainly help, but it will not redeem you entirely. In addition to a stellar post-bacc performance, a strong MCAT will help carry you past the "number cruncher".

- Unless you are independently wealthy, consider the cost of what you are proposing: you will incur significant debt during the couple of years of post-bacc work and the four years of medical school; afterwards you will earn too little during residency to pay off any sizeable portion of your debt; then you will begin working in India or Africa for an income which will not allow you to pay off your debt. Therefore, it may be far more reasonable for you to move to a country where you can obtain a free (or very inexpensive) medical education, if you have your heart set on something like MSF. (This may require learning a new language, but your plans of international work already presuppose this sort of linguistic and cultural expansion.)

- Consider the fact that there are 45 million US citizens and legal residents who do not have access to health care. Pick a rural area in Mississippi and spend a week there... if you can find any physicians in the area who treat the poor, shadow them. India and Africa will not appear as far away as one thinks.

- In developing countries the leading causes of death are infectious disease-related (much like it was in industrialized nations a century ago). Clean water, proper sanitation, and access to/knowledge of proper hygiene will do far more to improve health, increase life expectancy and decrease suffering in those countries. These are things far beyond the purview of a single MD who is heroically performing miracles one patient at a time. Working to solve the larger problems which affect entire populations will bring a much greater return on your investment (the investment being your time and effort). I would thoroughly explore the problems in those areas first, before making major decisions affecting my life.(Small personal gripe: Given the size and diversity of Africa, statements like "I want to work in Africa" sound a bit dismissive and uninformed, and perhaps, the same could be said for India too. For instance, the average life expectancy at birth for a male in Zimbabwe is 37 years, the same for a baby boy born in Algeria is 69... it's all Africa!) The World Health Organization is an excellent resource for finding mortality and morbidity data, identifying risks and trends, researching solutions, etc. (http://www.who.org)
 
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My dream is to be a doctor for the poor in Africa or India. But I am 27 years old and though I have a B.A. in English from UCSB I don't have any pre-meds. Plus my G.P.A. for my B.A. is only 2.5. So my questions are:

1) Should I do a post bacc
2) Will the Medical Schools ignore my low G.P.A. for my English undergraduate degree if I get a 3.9 or 3.5 G.P.A. in pre-meds
3) Should I do the 2 years of pre-meds at a community college or a post bacc
4) Any advice in regards for being a doctor for Medicins Sans Frontiers or working at a simple clinic in Africa or India for the poor once I do finish my medical school studies (if I do:))
5) What else should I do or plan to do in order to get accepted to medical schools (i.e. volunteer etc.)

Thank you so much,
Truse


Building on top of everyone elses comments, since you are from CA, then you are in a double bind. UC schools will be tough to get into even if you get a 4.0 in post-bacc classes as our UC's screen GPA and MCAT scores. You may have a 40 MCAT, but if your OVERALL GPA isn't above a 3.0-3.2 then you may fall out of the primary application cycle. (they won't even see your letters of recommendations) The other crappy being a CA-resident is that many other CA-residents with better GPAs apply all over the US, therefore you compete against them at non-CA schools, in addition to the residents of the other states. So you have a lot to do.

The good news is, since you haven't taken any science classes, you are starting off with a clean slate. However I am hesitant on making any predictions on how well you will do given your 2.5 GPA. In another post, I coined the term "evidence-based hope". You really have to figure out why you got a 2.5. Although non-science and science courses are different, there appears to be some habitual deficiency in something that caused you to get an apparent average of between a C+ and B-.

Given your state of affairs, DO NOT take classes at a community college. Since (1) they only offer lower division classes. If you go from a 2.5 GPA at UCSB...one of the top ranked public schools in the nation, to a 4.0 at a CC, how does that look? (2) Some schools outside of CA may not be understanding if you take CC courses. Per my discussion with UC Davis School of Medicine's director of admissions, he said that one should take UPPER DIVISION science classes if you want to boost your undergrad GPA. If i recall that would be your 100-series classes over there. That might have changed since I went to UCSB for summer session ages ago.

Another important thing is have you shadowed a physician? Know what you are getting into before you dive into it. Being a physician for the poor is certainly a good and noble goal, but thats a long time down the road for you, therefore focus on the present and near future. Know what you are getting into, and get your grades UP.

ExtremeUnderdog" said:
- Your undergrad GPA will be important, regardless of your major. Getting as close to a 4.0 as possible in post-bacc science courses will certainly help, but it will not redeem you entirely. In addition to a stellar post-bacc performance, a strong MCAT will help carry you past the "number cruncher".

I disagree with this to a certain extent. A strong MCAT may or may not do this. It also depends on the school. University of California, as stated, screen GPAs. If you don't make it for the GPA component, but still have a high MCAT, it may still screen you out. UC's and many other schools weigh MCAT and GPA equally, therefore doing well in one may not make up for the other.
It is crucial that the OP get his/her overall undergrad GPA up to a 3.0+.
 

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Your intentions are very noble and espouse the altruistic idealism which should live in every health care professional.

Actually, given the looming healthcare shortage here and the rise in numbers of underserved individuals in the US, many schools will see such idealism as deviating substantially from their core mission -- to train doctors to fulfill US (or state) needs. This noble notion could conceivably work against you.

With a 2.5, you are likely going to need to take more than just the prereqs before med schools are going to consider you. Plan on a few years of study before applying.
 

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I disagree with this to a certain extent. A strong MCAT may or may not do this. It also depends on the school. University of California, as stated, screen GPAs. If you don't make it for the GPA component, but still have a high MCAT, it may still screen you out. UC's and many other schools weigh MCAT and GPA equally, therefore doing well in one may not make up for the other.
It is crucial that the OP get his/her overall undergrad GPA up to a 3.0+.

I don't think we are disagreeing at all. All I said was that "in addition to a stellar post-bacc" the OP would need a really strong MCAT to have any chance of making it past the initial screenings. The "stellar post-bacc" phrase meant to highlight the importance of bringing up the GPA.

Actually, given the looming healthcare shortage here and the rise in numbers of underserved individuals in the US, many schools will see such idealism as deviating substantially from their core mission -- to train doctors to fulfill US (or state) needs. This noble notion could conceivably work against you.

Law2Doc, I almost universally agree with what you say in these forums and really appreciate your point of view as I have learned quite a bit from you. :) The idealism to which I was referring was in the title of the thread - "Doctor for the poor". I am completely in agreement with you regarding the need to address the problems we have right here in our own city neighborhoods and rural communities. I did point out some of this to the OP. I simply did not want to pounce on him/her with a diatribe about the ostentatious and contrived humanism of many pre-meds who run to Africa or rural Mexico or some other place, getting to which requires a passport and an expensive plane ticket, for ECs, rather than taking a quick trip to their local homeless shelter, free clinic, etc.

Additionally, volunteering one’s skills to MSF for a short period of time is a noble act in which a number of American physicians engage regularly (many of them also set aside time to serve the poor, who would otherwise be uanble to avail themselves of the doctor's care, right here in the US). I want to give the OP the benefit of the doubt... perhaps, he/she has a truly compelling reason for wanting to be overseas rather than here. (Although, the generalized "India or Africa" did not seem to inspire much confidence. ;))
 

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I don't think we are disagreeing at all. All I said was that "in addition to a stellar post-bacc" the OP would need a really strong MCAT to have any chance of making it past the initial screenings. The "stellar post-bacc" phrase meant to highlight the importance of bringing up the GPA.

Well if thats the case then I agree we agree;). Must've read it out of context somehow.

:oops:
 

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Well, with all that in mind I really don't see how I can achieve this goal of becoming a doctor.
Thanks for the realism.
 

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Well, with all that in mind I really don't see how I can achieve this goal of becoming a doctor.
Thanks for the realism.

What do you think about nursing? That is also a field that can do a great deal of good in a third world country. Your loans would be less and you wouldn't have to fight the uphill battle to attain your education.

Even with medicine, don't give up hope yet. Just because you may have a hard time getting into California med schools doesn't mean you can't get in somewhere.

And concerning your goals to work in a third world country... one can always live extremely frugally after residency and pay back loans as soon as possible and THEN serve.

I think most people here are just trying to help you view your goals realistically, not to tell you its impossible.
 
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My dream is to be a doctor for the poor in Africa or India. But I am 27 years old and though I have a B.A. in English from UCSB I don't have any pre-meds. Plus my G.P.A. for my B.A. is only 2.5. So my questions are:

1) Should I do a post bacc
2) Will the Medical Schools ignore my low G.P.A. for my English undergraduate degree if I get a 3.9 or 3.5 G.P.A. in pre-meds
3) Should I do the 2 years of pre-meds at a community college or a post bacc
4) Any advice in regards for being a doctor for Medicins Sans Frontiers or working at a simple clinic in Africa or India for the poor once I do finish my medical school studies (if I do:))
5) What else should I do or plan to do in order to get accepted to medical schools (i.e. volunteer etc.)

Thank you so much,
Truse


I think you're a long, long shot for acceptance anywhere. And you're not thinking clearly. Instead of wasting all of that money and time applying and matriculating in medical school not to mention residency, why not take out a big loan now and use it to fund a physican in Africa or India. I imagine you will end up three or four hundred thousand dollars in debt. This would fund a general practioner in Nigeria for twenty years.

Hell, just start working at a regular, crappy job and send half of your paycheck to the mission or medical relief agency of your choice.

Obviously you have something else up your sleeve. I don't think the admission comittees are going to buy it either. Assuming you get in, which is unlikely especially given the intense level of competition today, you will so change your tune after your first month of intern year if not sooner. Then, if you have a guilty conscience you can still give some of your salary to fund a couple of doctors in the Sudan.
 

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Truse,

Its certainly not impossible to get into a US med school with a 2.5 GPA. It just depends on how deep your pockets are, how much debt you want to get into, and/or how much time you want to spend to rehabilitate your GPA. Simple as that.

FYI, I had an undergrad GPA of 2.65 (at a UC). I have spent 1.5 years in post-bacc, and currnetly doing a PhD (3-5 years). Both of which are at a UC as well. I am taking undergrad classes during my PhD program to continue to boost my GPA...thus by next year, I will have a overall GPA of 3.0. By the time I apply, I will throw at the adcoms at least 4.5 years of 4.0 coursework, in addition to a medically relevant PhD degree. So clearly, if you want it enough, you can do it (plus have a good MCAT score too).

Like i said...its all about evidence-based hope. You have to ask yourself, REALISTICALLY, can you maintain such a GPA. I mean no offense, but if its that easy to discourage you to get into med school, then you may have your priorities mixed up. Its given that med school is hard to get into regardless of where you go. Can't get into med school on good intentions alone....so you have to academically prove yourself...just like any other program (JD, PhD, DVM, PharmD, RN, etc). If I was that easily discouraged, I would not have gone as far as I have today. You can do the same, but it really depends on YOU, since you know yourself the best!
 

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My dream is to be a doctor for the poor in Africa or India. But I am 27 years old and though I have a B.A. in English from UCSB I don't have any pre-meds. Plus my G.P.A. for my B.A. is only 2.5. So my questions are:

1) Should I do a post bacc
2) Will the Medical Schools ignore my low G.P.A. for my English undergraduate degree if I get a 3.9 or 3.5 G.P.A. in pre-meds
3) Should I do the 2 years of pre-meds at a community college or a post bacc
4) Any advice in regards for being a doctor for Medicins Sans Frontiers or working at a simple clinic in Africa or India for the poor once I do finish my medical school studies (if I do:))
5) What else should I do or plan to do in order to get accepted to medical schools (i.e. volunteer etc.)

Thank you so much,
Truse
Look into Osteopathy.

Kind Regard,

-Alexander
 
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Good luck achieving your goal, Truse. I can't believe how many people in here are trying to discourage you from helping people in impoverished areas. I agree that there are people here in America that are grossly underserved, but to each his own. If/when I become a doctor, I'd like to do the same as Truse.
 

Meatwad

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Good luck achieving your goal, Truse. I can't believe how many people in here are trying to discourage you from helping people in impoverished areas. I agree that there are people here in America that are grossly underserved, but to each his own. If/when I become a doctor, I'd like to do the same as Truse.
 

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Good luck achieving your goal, Truse. I can't believe how many people in here are trying to discourage you from helping people in impoverished areas. I agree that there are people here in America that are grossly underserved, but to each his own.

"To each his own" perhaps, but if you read the mission statements of various med schools, particularly those with some degree of government funding, you will see that many of them have a focus on serving the needs of the underserved in the US or a specific state. Thus, noble or not, an expressed focus on foreign poor may hurt, not help the OP. That's all I was saying.
 

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"To each his own" perhaps, but if you read the mission statements of various med schools, particularly those with some degree of government funding, you will see that many of them have a focus on serving the needs of the underserved in the US or a specific state. Thus, noble or not, an expressed focus on foreign poor may hurt, not help the OP. That's all I was saying.

I agree with Law2Doc. Although it is not my intent to discourage the OP (see my story above), Law2Doc is correct. From the University of California perspective, even some of our post-bacc programs have a requirement for students to have a committment to work in underserved areas within the US. Being from UC Davis, here's what they have to say: "With major funding by The California Endowment, the ultimate goal is to increase the number of physicians who practice in underserved areas." These schools are "especially" interested in students from underserved or socio-/economically- challenged communities. Its their hope that these people will go back to these underserved communities post-MD. I didn't look at all the UC post-bacc websites, but UCD and UCSF have this statement. On top of that UC Davis School of Medicine will accept an additional 4-5 people or something this year. But these people were admitted based on the requirement that they will serve in underserved communities post-MD. So clearly there is an emphasis.

Helping the needy in the world is good, but not neccessarily what the US needs...more specifically CA. Something that Law2Doc hasn't address are two things as well: (1) People who want to help [insert target population] are a dime a dozen. Its just like the whole "I want to be a doctor to help people". Plenty of professions that help people that don't have an MD/DO after their names. (2) Everything in medicine is evidence-based...anybody can say they want to help people, but what have you done as an applicant that proves that you can and will do more of it? I want to go into academic medicine, therefore I need to show research experience. I can say that I want to do that, but they'd just laugh and throw my application away. Instead I have a PhD degree to throw at them. Actions speak louder than words. Good luck!
 

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Hey Panda B....


Wow, you're really a degenerate! Don't write to me like that, ever.

I am now regretting spending some minutes of my life sincerely thinking about your issues and offering some constructive advice. Altruism is rooted in humanism and humanism is based on tolerance (among other things)... The speed with which you have resorted to name-calling reveals a lack of tolerance and gives me pause... Perhaps Panda Bear is right... there is something far different from altruism at play here.

I concede that Panda Bear can be acerbic in his posts, but if you spent any time looking through these forums, you would realize that it is merely his style (with little or no personal antagonism attached). Calling someone you have barely met a "degenerate" betrays an intellectual claustrophobia of massive proportions. Calling anyone a "degenerate" on an internet forum is utterly nonsensical... if you do not like someone's opinions you do not have to read them or respond to them. My philosophy of life and my politics are often widely divergent from those of Panda Bear (keeping in mind that PB is a cyber-persona, who may or may not represent the beliefs of its creator), but they do not preclude me from reading what he has to say with an open mind and occasionally learning a new thing or two.
 

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I am now regretting spending some minutes of my life sincerely thinking about your issues and offering some constructive advice. Altruism is rooted in humanism and humanism is based on tolerance (among other things)... The speed with which you have resorted to name-calling reveals a lack of tolerance and gives me pause... Perhaps Panda Bear is right... there is something far different from altruism at play here.

I concede that Panda Bear can be acerbic in his posts, but if you spent any time looking through these forums, you would realize that it is merely his style (with little or no personal antagonism attached). Calling someone you have barely met a "degenerate" betrays an intellectual claustrophobia of massive proportions. Calling anyone a "degenerate" on an internet forum is utterly nonsensical... if you do not like someone's opinions you do not have to read them or respond to them. My philosophy of life and my politics are often widely divergent from those of Panda Bear (keeping in mind that PB is a cyber-persona, who may or may not represent the beliefs of its creator), but they do not preclude me from reading what he has to say with an open mind and occasionally learning a new thing or two.

Thank you for saying that. I was gonna respond in Panda's defense earlier but didn't know exactly how to put it. It does seem like someone who is new to these forums should be careful before attacking someone who has 7,400 posts and is rather respected around these forums. It doesn't take too long to catch Panda's style and to respect his thoughts since he has actually been through med school and is in residency, whereas we are just hoping to get in.
 

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First of all don't let anonomous posters dicourage you. I started my post-bacc at 26, and I'm almost 29 and still working on getting into a program. Pre-meds (myself included) have a tendency to make things WAY harder on themselved than necessary. Based on my experience, and your goals, here is exactly what I would do.

Don't make it harder or more expensive than it has to be. Go to community college full time, and complete your basic sciences in 1 year. Take the MCAT at the conclusion of that period and apply to Ross in the Carribean. They have 4 application cycles per year, and lower addmission standards, so you can get started right away. You'll be there for 2 years, and back in the US for 2. Bada bing, bada boom, you are a doctor. Now go to Africa. Goal accomplished. That is how i would do it.

Good luck to you.
 

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I don't have a dog in this fight, but this gang-up on the OP is a little disturbing. Panda Bear's post accuses the OP of "having something else up his sleeve" and that adcoms will "not buy it." I read the subtext here as: "they will readily see through your ruse of faked altruism." Wouldn't you be offended if you are accused of that?

Some people may find OP's post naive-sounding and the cynical realist within each of us may find satisfication in seeing the newbie taken down a few notches with style. All is fair in love and internet posting, I suppose. But don't be so shocked if the OP doesn't find it as entertaining as you did.

Bottom line, the post OP found offensive was low on advice, high on contempt. Whether you have 30 posts or 1,000,000 posts, that's not nice or helpful.
 

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In addition, just because he has the dream of helping people in less fortunate areas doesn't make him any less of an emotional person; if he truly felt attacked, he responded the way lots of people would. Maybe this is a lack of maturity, but that comes (hopefully) with time. I don't see how his response indicates he is not the type of person that wants to help people.
 

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First, the OP's initial message generated meaningful advice at the beginning of the thread. There were also some quasi-questions posed, which were left open for the OP to address if he/she wanted more constructive input from the people who were reading the thread. The OP came back with a single sentence capitulation. It raised red flags, for Panda Bear and others who were following the thread, and responses were formulated in view of said red flags.

No matter how emotionally vulnerable the OP felt, calling someone a "degenerate" was entirely inexcusable in the context of this thread. Here is how The American Heritage Dictionary defines the aforementioned noun:

1. A depraved, corrupt, or vicious person.
2. A person lacking or having progressively lost normative biological or psychological characteristics.

As many others in these forums, I am dedicated to championing the cause of the underdogs in this game, and I try my best to provide constructive advice to further this cause. However, the OP has not given us much of a cause to champion. Furthermore, the ease and speed with which he/she resorted to an ad hominem attack has left serious doubts about his/her ability to practice the altruism (defined as: the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others) to which he/she professes philosophical allegiance. Concern for the welfare of others intimates a highly evolved capacity for tolerance and empathy - including, but not limited to, tolerance for opinions and senses of humor different from one's own, and empathy towards even the most vitriolic personalities (not suggesting that Panda Bear has such a personality, but rather allowing for a subjective emotional perception of such).

Let us entertain a wild hypothetical situation here... Suppose the OP does go to Niger, or Zimbabwe, or Ghana... Africa, and a local resident, for whom he/she professes altruistic concern, understandably skeptical of a stranger who has yet to reveal his/her true intentions and agenda, calls the OP a Western imperialist with dubious motives. How does "you, degenerate, don't ever speak to me like that" sound as a response? Is it possible for disenfranchised people in Africa to feel suspicious of physicians from other countries... I would not doubt it, especially given the fact that the Western medical establishment has been known to carry out ethically questionable studies in developing countries. (If anyone needs references, I will post them, I just don't feel like firing up Endnote right now.) Is it possible for the OP to give such a response? From what we have seen here... maybe...

I'll stop rambling now... :D and I do hope that the OP will be able to come back for a meaningful conversation, which will give him/her help and support... if, these are indeed what he/she was wanting in the first place. :confused:
 
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TheGalvaniFrog

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I think you are inferring an awful lot about a person's character based on one word. I agree that his question is more on the order of a passing fancy. If that's a red flag of anything, it's a lack of serious thought, and rather a far leap to accusing him of "intellectual claustrophobia" (is this disorder in the DSMV IV?) and casting doubt about his "abilities to practice altruism." Those are pretty hefty things to accuse of someone you have barely met.

I do hope that the OP will be able to come back for a meaningful conversation, which will give him/her help and support.

But previously:

I am now regretting spending some minutes of my life sincerely thinking about your issues and offering some constructive advice. Altruism is rooted in humanism and humanism is based on tolerance (among other things)... The speed with which you have resorted to name-calling reveals a lack of tolerance and gives me pause... Perhaps Panda Bear is right... there is something far different from altruism at play here.

Yeah. . . . I don't think he is coming back.
 

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The fact that I regretted spending my time thinking about his/her issues does not preclude me from hoping that he/she can come back for a meaningful conversation (if that is what he/she was truly searching)... that conversation simply may not include me until and unless I am convinced that a) the person's questions are sincere and meaningful to me, and b) I have something sincere and meaningful to say in response.

As far as jumping to conclusions... yes, perhaps I extrapolated much further than the evidence allowed and I apologize if it was less than warranted. Yet, that was the only evidence I had, and unlike the OP, I made no attacks on his/her person, but rather expressed my dismay at his/her verbal behavior and the incongruities between his/her words and professed intentions.

Lastly, if it would be more pleasing for anyone to read "fear of exploring spaces confined by other people's thoughts and ideas", rather than "intellectual claustrophobia", feel free to do so. If, however, "intellectual claustrophobia" ever makes it into the DSMV or ICD, I want credit... in fact, I want my name attached to the disease! ;) :laugh: )

Really, we could go on about this... ad nauseam... but why?

Edited to add: Perhaps this whole thing was a mere "ruse" on the part of the OP? :D
 
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8744

Hey Panda B....


Wow, you're really a degenerate! Don't write to me like that, ever.

Dude, you asked for advice and you got it. I also proposed a more cost effective method to serve the poor if that's your really goal.

If you don't want what to hear divergent opinions then I suggest an anonymous internet forum (even though I am not really that anonymous as it would take about three minutes of googling to find out who I am) is the wrong place.

Additionally, I don't know where it became a requirement that we are always told what we want to hear in a manner that does not even risk offending us. The subtext of my reply to your question is that medicine is a pretty good job (if you get into a specialty you like) but in hindsight I'm not sure if it's been worth all of the trouble.
 

phospho

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The fact that I regretted spending my time thinking about his/her issues does not preclude me from hoping that he/she can come back for a meaningful conversation (if that is what he/she was truly searching)... that conversation simply may not include me until and unless I am convinced that a) the person's questions are sincere and meaningful to me, and b) I have something sincere and meaningful to say in response.

As far as jumping to conclusions... yes, perhaps I extrapolated much further than the evidence allowed and I apologize if it was less than warranted. Yet, that was the only evidence I had, and unlike the OP, I made no attacks on his/her person, but rather expressed my dismay at his/her verbal behavior and the incongruities between his/her words and professed intentions.

Lastly, if it would be more pleasing for anyone to read "fear of exploring spaces confined by other people's thoughts and ideas", rather than "intellectual claustrophobia", feel free to do so. If, however, "intellectual claustrophobia" ever makes it into the DSMV or ICD, I want credit... in fact, I want my name attached to the disease! ;) :laugh: )

Really, we could go on about this... ad nauseam... but why?

Edited to add: Perhaps this whole thing was a mere "ruse" on the part of the OP? :D

I'm a huge fan of your posts. Not only do your posts paint the picture of an intelligent person, but the high morals exhibited in every argument you tend to pursue is nothing less than resplendent.:)
 

Nasrudin

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Dude, you asked for advice and you got it. I also proposed a more cost effective method to serve the poor if that's your really goal.

If you don't want what to hear divergent opinions then I suggest an anonymous internet forum (even though I am not really that anonymous as it would take about three minutes of googling to find out who I am) is the wrong place.

Additionally, I don't know where it became a requirement that we are always told what we want to hear in a manner that does not even risk offending us. The subtext of my reply to your question is that medicine is a pretty good job (if you get into a specialty you like) but in hindsight I'm not sure if it's been worth all of the trouble.

There's no arguing the economic realities of this. You would get far more healthcare for your buck by sponsoring african doctor's effort in Africa than showing up with a cape and enough debt to equal the trade deficient of an entire nation.
 

gotmeds?

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There's no arguing the economic realities of this. You would get far more healthcare for your buck by sponsoring african doctor's effort in Africa than showing up with a cape and enough debt to equal the trade deficient of an entire nation.

That's why the "I just want to help people" line is a little disingenuous. If you truly just wanted to help people, there's a lot you could get done with a quarter of a million dollars and eight years of your life.
 

Meatwad

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That's true, but I don't believe he wrote "I just want to help people." He wrote that he wanted to be a doctor for the poor. Actually, his original post, although now edited out, never mentioned any type of altruistic nature to his choice of careers. For all we know, he gets off seeing people in third world countries dying. So it is correct to fault Truse for having committed an ad hominen fallacy; however, anyone who attacked him for his idealism was just as fallacious in their argument.
 

ExtremeUnderdog

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To phospho: Thank you for your very kind words... I am deeply flattered.

To Zolar Czakl: You may be quite right, and Panda Bear was making a similar suggestion (i.e., something else being afoot). The original post is still here, quoted by others in their responses, and I suppose it was the word "dream" that served as the basis of our possibly erroneous assumptions (initially, you seemed somewhat moved by his humanitarian motives as well, ref. your first three post). Anyways, I am suspecting that this thread may have been started as a "ruse" by Truse, so the proverbial horse was probably DOA. ;)
 

Law2Doc

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For all we know, he gets off seeing people in third world countries dying.

If that's the case, I have to agree with Panda. There are many more financially feasible ways to attain this goal. Enlisting comes to mind. Or peace corps.
 

Meatwad

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That may be so, but how do we know money is an option? That is another fallacious assumption many made whilst they attacked him.
 

ExtremeUnderdog

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Zolar, you keep stressing the point that people attacked the OP. I have carefully reread the thread and fail to see your point. All posters had a constructive approach to the OP's problems and offered the best advice they deemed applicable. The advice he was given was entirely consistent with what has been posted innumerable times in these forums - someone with a 2.5 GPA has substantial obstacles to overcome on the road to medicine. The fact that the OP was intimidated by the realistic depiction of those obstacles to a point where he/she capitulated immediately and unconditionally, does not constitute evidence of malice on the part of the respondents. Even Panda Bear's characteristically sarcastic post could not be honestly called an "attack".

Some of us became critical of the OP only after he called Panda Bear a "degenerate". In the face of the evidence, the assertion that the OP was attacked simply does not stand. I could even go as far as arguing that you have consistently returned to this thread and made attempts to interject antagonism where none was warranted. Perhaps, the fact that you are moved by the noble notion of serving impoverished people in developing countries inspires a certain degree of solidarity with the OP. Yet, even in your own latter posts you have suggested that the OP may not be moved by any altruistic motives - I strain to find consistency in your arguments. Below are your posts, in chronological order:

Good luck achieving your goal, Truse. I can't believe how many people in here are trying to discourage you from helping people in impoverished areas. I agree that there are people here in America that are grossly underserved, but to each his own. If/when I become a doctor, I'd like to do the same as Truse.

Several posters, myself included, complimented the OP on the nobility of his/her intentions (if they were indeed what we had supposed them to be), and rather than blindly cheering him on as he proposed to travel down a path that could have meant financial disaster for him, we presented different perspectives on the issue. Other posters did not place any value judgments (compliment or criticism) on his/her intentions. They merely pointed out that the mission of the US medical schools was not aligned with the OP’s intentions, and printing these intentions on a large banner (especially this early in the game), could make his/her admission into medical school even more difficult.

In addition, just because he has the dream of helping people in less fortunate areas doesn't make him any less of an emotional person; if he truly felt attacked, he responded the way lots of people would. Maybe this is a lack of maturity, but that comes (hopefully) with time. I don't see how his response indicates he is not the type of person that wants to help people.

That's true, but I don't believe he wrote "I just want to help people." He wrote that he wanted to be a doctor for the poor. Actually, his original post, although now edited out, never mentioned any type of altruistic nature to his choice of careers. For all we know, he gets off seeing people in third world countries dying. So it is correct to fault Truse for having committed an ad hominen fallacy; however, anyone who attacked him for his idealism was just as fallacious in their argument.

That may be so, but how do we know money is an option? That is another fallacious assumption many made whilst they attacked him.

The contradictions in the above posts are striking. :)
 
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