Doctor I shadow suddenly ghosted...

[vi0linm0nster]

So I am currently shadowing this surgeon at a private office about once a week for the summer and we usually decide what day for me to come the following week at the end of the day after I shadow. However, last week we were very rushed towards the end of the day (I had to make it to a volunteer shift and she had a meeting), and we didn't get to set up when I would come in the following week. I texted her the evening of to let her know of the data entry stuff I did for her that day, and just to say thank you for the day. She responded within 10 minutes but then I texted her again the next day about when would be a good day for me to come and she never responded. Monday of the next week I texted her again just in case she forgot to respond, but it's been a week and still no response.

What is going on? I shadowed her about 4 days total now, and observed 2 surgeries. I've mentioned that I plan on shadowing once a week until the end of September. Should I text her again or call the office and tell the front desk to pass on my message? I don't want to be a pest but at the same time I want to hold on to this shadowing opportunity since it had not been easy finding someone for me to shadow. (I had to reach out to a senior pre-med in my lab to connect me)

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[FreeRadicals]

I'd talk to her receptionist and ask her a good time to speak to the surgeon your shadowing.

 

[puahate]

Just let it go. It happened to me. They are just p***** and cant reject you. This whole process is just rejection after rejection get used it because as a premed no one cares about you at all.

Just like Swiss Beatz said

 

[vi0linm0nster]

Just let it go. It happened to me. They are just p***** and cant reject you. This whole process is just rejection after rejection get used it because as a premed no one cares about you at all.

Just like Swiss Beatz said

This was just unaccounted for. There were no signs that she didn't like me or that there was a problem... I'm 99% sure I didn't do anything that would warrant something like this. Also I know the girl that used to shadow her and she ended up writing her a LOR so I feel like she is experienced with students

 

[JeSuisUnDoc]

The surgeon I shadow has someone who schedules stuff for him and I talk to her to figure out when to come. Maybe you call someone instead of her directly? They’re pretty busy.


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[puahate]

This was just unaccounted for. There were no signs that she didn't like me or that there was a problem... I'm 99% sure I didn't do anything that would warrant something like this. Also I know the girl that used to shadow her and she ended up writing her a LOR so I feel like she is experienced with students

talk to the secretary or medical assistant at the front desk

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

So I am currently shadowing this surgeon at a private office about once a week for the summer and we usually decide what day for me to come the following week at the end of the day after I shadow. However, last week we were very rushed towards the end of the day (I had to make it to a volunteer shift and she had a meeting), and we didn't get to set up when I would come in the following week. I texted her the evening of to let her know of the data entry stuff I did for her that day, and just to say thank you for the day. She responded within 10 minutes but then I texted her again the next day about when would be a good day for me to come and she never responded. Monday of the next week I texted her again just in case she forgot to respond, but it's been a week and still no response.

What is going on? I shadowed her about 4 days total now, and observed 2 surgeries. I've mentioned that I plan on shadowing once a week until the end of September. Should I text her again or call the office and tell the front desk to pass on my message? I don't want to be a pest but at the same time I want to hold on to this shadowing opportunity since it had not been easy finding someone for me to shadow. (I had to reach out to a senior pre-med in my lab to connect me)

Im not even in medicine anymore, idk why im answering this

When I was a premed this happened every now and then. The busier the surgeon, the less valuable you are. To them , they are doing you a favor. If youre getting a recommendation letter feel free to express your urgency, if not say f*** it and move on dont worry about it, find someone else. More specialties look better anyway. The way I had done my shadowing was full long days at a hospital seeing 4-5 specialties .

One time I had a surgeon not respond to multiple requests even though he had told a local dean of a medical school to have me contact him for shadowing. I called the secretary office, she asked if he responded to my email, I said no, then she said probably not.
I contacted the dean for someone else to shadow, dean calls this surgeon, turns out the surgeon was too ******ed to manage his own email. No wonder the guy was wondering why his practice was failing and he was making 170 k as a surgeon in a high COL city.

Bottom line is, the person you are shadowing is ****, shes probably gonna suck when it comes to writing a letter. Find someone else , youll be happier.

 

[MyOdyssey]

So I am currently shadowing this surgeon at a private office about once a week for the summer and we usually decide what day for me to come the following week at the end of the day after I shadow. However, last week we were very rushed towards the end of the day (I had to make it to a volunteer shift and she had a meeting), and we didn't get to set up when I would come in the following week. I texted her the evening of to let her know of the data entry stuff I did for her that day, and just to say thank you for the day. She responded within 10 minutes but then I texted her again the next day about when would be a good day for me to come and she never responded. Monday of the next week I texted her again just in case she forgot to respond, but it's been a week and still no response.

What is going on? I shadowed her about 4 days total now, and observed 2 surgeries. I've mentioned that I plan on shadowing once a week until the end of September. Should I text her again or call the office and tell the front desk to pass on my message? I don't want to be a pest but at the same time I want to hold on to this shadowing opportunity since it had not been easy finding someone for me to shadow. (I had to reach out to a senior pre-med in my lab to connect me)

The ad com posters here have said repeatedly that LORs from shadowing experiences aren't worth very much.

You seem interested in getting a LOR from this doctor. What if she agrees and then ghosts you then?

She's shown herself to be an unreliable/uninterested mentor. When someone shows you who they are, believe her.

Leave a message with the admin desk and if she doesn't respond, move on.

Don't continue emailing and trying to communicate beyond that in the absence of a response.

 

[candbgirl]

You have enough shadowing from this doctor. Her letter isn’t needed unless she’s a DO. Move on to a primary care doc.

 

[vi0linm0nster]

The ad com posters here have said repeatedly that LORs from shadowing experiences aren't worth very much.

You seem interested in getting a LOR from this doctor. What if she agrees and then ghosts you then?

She's shown herself to be an unreliable/uninterested mentor. When someone shows you who they are, believe her.

Leave a message with the admin desk and if she doesn't respond, move on.

Don't continue emailing and trying to communicate beyond that in the absence of a response.

Why is it that LORs from shadowing aren't worth much? I was planning on having 2 from science prof, 1 from nonscience prof, 1 from postdoc at research, 1 from MD PI at research, and hopefully at least another from another MD from shadowing, and in the best case scenario, another from volunteering at the hospital.

 

[Lawpy]

Why is it that LORs from shadowing aren't worth much? I was planning on having 2 from science prof, 1 from nonscience prof, 1 from postdoc at research, 1 from MD PI at research, and hopefully at least another from another MD from shadowing, and in the best case scenario, another from volunteering at the hospital.

What do you think a letter from a physician you shadowed would say?

 

[MyOdyssey]

Why is it that LORs from shadowing aren't worth much? I was planning on having 2 from science prof, 1 from nonscience prof, 1 from postdoc at research, 1 from MD PI at research, and hopefully at least another from another MD from shadowing, and in the best case scenario, another from volunteering at the hospital.

I encourage you to search for answers from actual ad coms who've posted here that letters from MDs you've shadowed are rarely useful.

But here's my recollection. Shadowing is a passive activity where you simply watch and observe and where you have no patient interaction. With clinical volunteering, you actually have patient interactions and help people. This is also why the ad coms here say that you should weight your time toward more clinical volunteering vis-a-vis mere shadowing.

 

[thegrind33]

Why is it that LORs from shadowing aren't worth much? I was planning on having 2 from science prof, 1 from nonscience prof, 1 from postdoc at research, 1 from MD PI at research, and hopefully at least another from another MD from shadowing, and in the best case scenario, another from volunteering at the hospital.

You're trying to get into medical school, not get a job as a tech that is why.

 

[vi0linm0nster]

Update: I called the office and spoke to the front desk on Monday, told the front desk I never got a response from her even after sending 2 texts in the last week, and to let her know I called in. I felt the receptionist was kind of rude.. first of all, she kept on saying "uh huh" a lot AS I was speaking like she wasn't actually listening to what I'm saying, and then was like "I'm sure she will respond" - It is now Thursday and still no text from her.

At this point, I have pretty much accepted the fact that I probably shouldn't ask her for a LOR and odds of me going back there are quite low. But I'm just quite frustrated that doctors, whom are highly respected, could be this rude to leave me hanging without formally tying off the end. If she can even just send me a short text to perhaps say I pretty much have saw everything there is to see or whatever, I would've easily accepted it and move on. I really want to end this on a good note but she's not quite letting me do it if she's not responding...

Any suggestions as to what I should do/say to leave this on a good note?

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Update: I called the office and spoke to the front desk on Monday, told the front desk I never got a response from her even after sending 2 texts in the last week, and to let her know I called in. I felt the receptionist was kind of rude.. first of all, she kept on saying "uh huh" a lot AS I was speaking like she wasn't actually listening to what I'm saying, and then was like "I'm sure she will respond" - It is now Thursday and still no text from her.

At this point, I have pretty much accepted the fact that I probably shouldn't ask her for a LOR and odds of me going back there are quite low. But I'm just quite frustrated that doctors, whom are highly respected, could be this rude to leave me hanging without formally tying off the end. If she can even just send me a short text to perhaps say I pretty much have saw everything there is to see or whatever, I would've easily accepted it and move on. I really want to end this on a good note but she's not quite letting me do it if she's not responding...

Any suggestions as to what I should do/say to leave this on a good note?

Nothing.
As Elsa says, “let it go, let it goooooo....”


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[MyOdyssey]

Update: I called the office and spoke to the front desk on Monday, told the front desk I never got a response from her even after sending 2 texts in the last week, and to let her know I called in. I felt the receptionist was kind of rude.. first of all, she kept on saying "uh huh" a lot AS I was speaking like she wasn't actually listening to what I'm saying, and then was like "I'm sure she will respond" - It is now Thursday and still no text from her.

At this point, I have pretty much accepted the fact that I probably shouldn't ask her for a LOR and odds of me going back there are quite low. But I'm just quite frustrated that doctors, whom are highly respected, could be this rude to leave me hanging without formally tying off the end. If she can even just send me a short text to perhaps say I pretty much have saw everything there is to see or whatever, I would've easily accepted it and move on. I really want to end this on a good note but she's not quite letting me do it if she's not responding...

Any suggestions as to what I should do/say to leave this on a good note?

Do NOT ask her to write a LOR under any circumstances.

Send a brief thank you note. Nothing else.

 

[vi0linm0nster]

Do NOT ask her to write a LOR under any circumstances.

Send a brief thank you note. Nothing else.

Would it be appropriate to send her a text saying I understand she's busy and thank you for her time, and then ask if she knows of any doctors from other fields that I can go to?

 

[MyOdyssey]

Would it be appropriate to send her a text saying I understand she's busy and thank you for her time, and then ask if she knows of any doctors from other fields that I can go to?

Yes. But the request for names of other doctors should be made lightly and with deference.

It should not be a demand.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Would it be appropriate to send her a text saying I understand she's busy and thank you for her time, and then ask if she knows of any doctors from other fields that I can go to?

Don’t send a text. Email her if you want. She isn’t responding to you on text.


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[OneTwoThreeFour]

Update: I called the office and spoke to the front desk on Monday, told the front desk I never got a response from her even after sending 2 texts in the last week, and to let her know I called in. I felt the receptionist was kind of rude.. first of all, she kept on saying "uh huh" a lot AS I was speaking like she wasn't actually listening to what I'm saying, and then was like "I'm sure she will respond" - It is now Thursday and still no text from her.

At this point, I have pretty much accepted the fact that I probably shouldn't ask her for a LOR and odds of me going back there are quite low. But I'm just quite frustrated that doctors, whom are highly respected, could be this rude to leave me hanging without formally tying off the end. If she can even just send me a short text to perhaps say I pretty much have saw everything there is to see or whatever, I would've easily accepted it and move on. I really want to end this on a good note but she's not quite letting me do it if she's not responding...

Any suggestions as to what I should do/say to leave this on a good note?

I'm sorry this happened to you. It can be very frustrating to work with physicians sometimes. But you are acting like this doctor owes you anything and that's 100% incorrect. You are coming into her practice, using her resources (OR gowns, shoe covers, etc all needs to be paid for somewhere), occupying her time without her getting anything else in return. It is definitely rude for her to not answer, you are a human being after all. But surgeons tend to be busy and put off non-urgent things until there's more time (unfortunately, you are not urgent and there rarely is more time). An email saying "thank you, I had a terrific experience, would love an opportunity if you have time in the future" is probably all that's left at this point.

 

[vi0linm0nster]

I'm sorry this happened to you. It can be very frustrating to work with physicians sometimes. But you are acting like this doctor owes you anything and that's 100% incorrect. You are coming into her practice, using her resources (OR gowns, shoe covers, etc all needs to be paid for somewhere), occupying her time without her getting anything else in return. It is definitely rude for her to not answer, you are a human being after all. But surgeons tend to be busy and put off non-urgent things until there's more time (unfortunately, you are not urgent and there rarely is more time). An email saying "thank you, I had a terrific experience, would love an opportunity if you have time in the future" is probably all that's left at this point.

Oh yeah, definitely understand that they are doing me a favor by letting me shadow them. I am not taking anything for granted or feel entitled to anything here. But I'm just stumbling upon the point that she is nice enough to let me into her office and follow her around a couple of days yet don't care enough to formally call it off... not to mention that I was referred to her by the student that shadowed her a year or 2 ago (that she really likes I assume), so I would've expected a little more courtesy from her end - isn't that what normal human beings do?

 

[Sagebrush]

Oh yeah, definitely understand that they are doing me a favor by letting me shadow them. I am not taking anything for granted or feel entitled to anything here. But I'm just stumbling upon the point that she is nice enough to let me into her office and follow her around a couple of days yet don't care enough to formally call it off... not to mention that I was referred to her by the student that shadowed her a year or 2 ago (that she really likes I assume), so I would've expected a little more courtesy from her end - isn't that what normal human beings do?

She got busy and distracted and forgot. Have you ever been busy and forgotten to return a phone call or text message? (If you haven't, you may be the only person ever who can answer "no" to that question!)

 

[MyOdyssey]

She got busy and distracted and forgot. Have you ever been busy and forgotten to return a phone call or text message? (If you haven't, you may be the only person ever who can answer "no" to that question!)

Disagree.

Busy explains not intially responding. It doesn’t explain continuing not to respond, which is obviously lame.

 

[Sagebrush]

Disagree.

Busy explains not intially responding. It doesn’t explain continuing not to respond, which is obviously lame.

She was contacted twice. I'm nowhere near as busy as a surgeon, and I've had times where someone contacted me after I forgot to respond initially, and their second contact came at a time when I was busy and I simply forgot.... again. It does happen. It might be intentional, although I doubt it is.

 

[Robin-jay]

I'm sorry this happened to you. It can be very frustrating to work with physicians sometimes. But you are acting like this doctor owes you anything and that's 100% incorrect.

The problem with this thinking is that the physician offered to help, and then, sort of doesn't.

I never offered to tutor someone in chemistry, and then just all of a sudden ignored them one day. The physician gave herself the obligation to help, and should do so....or at least tell the person who is shadowing her she is busy.

I think the problem is that many physicians cant get their own stuff together. Terrible time management skills. I'm shocked so many physicians exist with such poor time management skills. I see it already in my own medical school....

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

The problem with this thinking is that the physician offered to help, and then, sort of doesn't.

I never offered to tutor someone in chemistry, and then just all of a sudden ignored them one day. The physician gave herself the obligation to help, and should do so....or at least tell the person who is shadowing her she is busy.

I think the problem is that many physicians cant get their own stuff together. Terrible time management skills. I'm shocked so many physicians exist with such poor time management skills. I see it already in my own medical school....

Right. Later on in my message I agree that what this doctor did was rude. But the move now is not to continue to pester- the doctor either forgot about her or doesn't want her there- but to send a thankful email because she should be thankful she got to shadow.
Just trying to give actionable advice.

 

[RangerBob]

Try to contact her one more time. Surgeons (and attendings in general) are very busy people. You really have no idea until you get to residency how busy a physicians life can be, and how little free time they may have when they get home, and sometimes a lot of that is needed to catch up on paying bills, schedule personal appointments (taxes, hair, whatever), and obviously if they have kids a whole bunch of other stuff...

As PM&R doctor I have better hours than many physicians, but I still can't give everything to everyone, and my family and patients matter the most. If I had a student shadowing me I agree the polite thing to do is get back to them. But that didn't happen so it's on you now to try one more time. If that falls through, it's time to move on to the next thing.

I have never heard of asking a physician you shadow for a letter, and I would personally not recommmend it (I would never write one for a shadow). Maybe it's a thing, but all they can comment on is that you showed up, showed interest, and watched. Get your letters from professors and physicians/people you work with who can comment on your professionalism, demeanor, skills, and work ethic. Otherwise it's a waste of a letter since most schools limit you to a certain number. Shadowing just doesn't give you much of a chance to show all that stuff off. (If it does, then you're doing more than shadowing, which is great).

 

[vi0linm0nster]

Omg, I emailed her basically giving her a easy way out, thinking that she was going to be like yeah I'm too busy to teach you anymore, but she responded with basically saying she's busy but that I can just pick a day in the week where I can just come in at the same time and see whatever there is to see for that day rather than figuring out when to come the week prior. Not sure if this doctor is still worth shadowing/ is reliable? What are the pros and cons...

 

[Sagebrush]

Omg, I emailed her basically giving her a easy way out, thinking that she was going to be like yeah I'm too busy to teach you anymore, but she responded with basically saying she's busy but that I can just pick a day in the week where I can just come in at the same time and see whatever there is to see for that day rather than figuring out when to come the week prior. Not sure if this doctor is still worth shadowing/ is reliable? What are the pros and cons...

I'm not sure why you're so confused about this... This is pretty much the best case scenario.

Pick a day and stop worrying.

 

[vi0linm0nster]

I'm not sure why you're so confused about this... This is pretty much the best case scenario.

Pick a day and stop worrying.

My MCAT is in a couple of weeks and if she's not worth it, why waste study time? Just not sure if she is worth it or not here is my problem, especially after all of this

 

[MyOdyssey]

My MCAT is in a couple of weeks and if she's not worth it, why waste study time? Just not sure if she is worth it or not here is my problem, especially after all of this

Tell her you're tied up for the next couple of weeks with the MCAT but that you'd like to continue shadowing afterward. If she can't deal with that, then she's not worth shadowing.

How many shadowing hours have you compiled already?

 

[Sagebrush]

My MCAT is in a couple of weeks and if she's not worth it, why waste study time? Just not sure if she is worth it or not here is my problem, especially after all of this

I'm not really sure what you mean "worth it". Do you need shadowing hours? Then she's worth it. If you're all good on shadowing hours, move on to something else.

 

[vi0linm0nster]

Tell her you're tied up for the next couple of weeks with the MCAT but that you'd like to continue shadowing afterward. If she can't deal with that, then she's not worth shadowing.

How many shadowing hours have you compiled already?

She is the first doctor I have ever shadowed in college, and so far I got about 30-40 hours from her.

Initially I was hoping to get a LOR from her, but upon reading these replies and her flakiness, I am having second thoughts on that. What I really want out of this shadowing experience, is to see different patient cases and interactions and have something to say in personal statement/interviews. Best case scenario is if I can possibly play perhaps a small active role in the office and get a LOR.

 

[MonkeyArrow]

Initially I was hoping to get a LOR from her, but upon reading these replies and her flakiness, I am having second thoughts on that. What I really want out of this shadowing experience, is to see different patient cases and interactions and have something to say in personal statement/interviews. Best case scenario is if I can possibly play perhaps a small active role in the office and get a LOR.

Physician LORs are useless for most med school application purposes.

Also, it's kind of concerning how you're referring to someone going out of their way to do you a favor as "worth it".

 

[JeSuisUnDoc]

seriously?!


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