Doctor of Nursing Practice?

[deleted6669]

It's obvious that lawquil is a PA, who despite his lack of a graduate degree, wishes he was some kind of 'doctor'. A PA is an assistant, hence the ASSISTANT part of PA. A PA is not an independent profession and there is no such thing as the profession of physician assisting. A PA is a paraprofessional just like a teacher's aide or legal assistant.

An NP has more autonomy and more skill, IMO. Does that mean I advocate for a doctorate in NP? No, I don't and think it's overkill and somewhat pretentious.

for what it is worth lawguil is a college health careers counselor......
I agree that np's have more autonomy. pa's by design are aligned with physicians to have some degree of oversight to their practice, not because they aren't as good as np's but because they realize that oversight of non-physician/midlevel providers assures quality.
I can't agree that np's have more skill. take a good look at the curriculum of a pa and an np program at the same school. the pa will avg over 2000 hrs of clinical rotations in addition to taking many medschool level courses taught by md's and phd's in their fields.
np programs in the didactic phase offer a watered down preparation to practice medicine with lots of touchy feely classes and very little hard science.many np proigrams have less than 600 hrs of clinical time total. I just had an np student rotate with me who completed her entire er/acute care medicine rotation in 2 weeks. an np program can be done in less than 2 yrs part time while still holding a full time job. it is the rare full time pa student who can work during pa school. the truth of the matter is that an rn who becomes a pa is prepared better to practice medicine than an rn who becomes an np. 30% of all pa's are/were nurses so it is not as uncommon as you might think. there were many in my class at hahnemann and there are many who I interact with daily at work.
do I think there is value in a pa or np getting a doctorate for any other reason than teaching or administration? nope.....
as an aside....a doctorate level np still ends up with less clinical time on rotations than a pa with a certificate, a.s., or b.s........

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[fab4fan]

Here we go again.

And I keep thinking of the PAs I've dealt with who had no clinical exp. whatsoever before becoming PAs. Scary.

You all but refuse to acknowledge that there are very good NPs out there who are happy funtioning as mid-levels. And you contradict yourself. You say PA w/ physician oversight was created by design, because the PAs want the oversight, but on other threads you brag about how little, if any, oversight a lot of PAs get and how they for all intents and purposes practice independently. Which is it?

 

[lawguil]

It's obvious that lawquil is a PA, who despite his lack of a graduate degree, wishes he was some kind of 'doctor'. A PA is an assistant, hence the ASSISTANT part of PA. A PA is not an independent profession and there is no such thing as the profession of physician assisting. A PA is a paraprofessional just like a teacher's aide or legal assistant.

An NP has more autonomy and more skill, IMO. Does that mean I advocate for a doctorate in NP? No, I don't and think it's overkill and somewhat pretentious.

Huh! Once again you have outsmarted everybody! I'm not a PA. Part of what I do is pre-professional advising for aspiring physicians, PA's, nurses, PT's, and so forth. In case you haven’t figured out ProZackboy, I really don't take these forums seriously, but use them as a tool to get the inside scoop about things (I learn a lot). In all honesty though, I do have an overall preference for the PA (medical model) vs. the nursing model. Probably because I'm a scientist and it fits me better. I routinely advise nurses who are considering mid-level NP to consider PA if they have the science background and if they can swing full-time study. However, I also understand that for many nurses the NP route makes sense if they have a family and can't commit to PA school. Many NP programs are flexible, three days a week, allow you to work full-time, and require less demanding clinical education. If I were a nurse, I would be crazy not to consider NP training especially if I had a family (also, they have strong lobbying power). I do seriously question whether training as a nurse should exempt them from being a generalist and taking the heavier course loads that are typical in PA training.
I also understand that the midlevel nurses have done well in the Psych and midwifery specialties. I do believe (in fact I know it) that all the new "clinical doctorate" doctorates are inflated (a lot). I'm probably more receptive to physicians being awarded a "doctorate" because it's an older tradition and their training is extensive clinically (more than any other clinical profession by a long shot...at least that I know of.)

I do think that your whole story lacks a lot of credibility! In my experiences, I have never heard any physician of any sort begin to suggest that a PA's role (or the practice provisions) is similar to a Para educator/teachers aid or legal assistant. Much of what you say reminds me of somebody who might be living double lives. One which is reality and one that is on the internet being who you wish you were.

Just experiences from my angle! L.

 

[lizzied2003]

Use the following principle:

Who gives the orders and who takes them? If you find yourself in the latter end of the equation...you shouldn’t be calling yourself a doctor in front of a patient. This may just save your job someday. Again, at home, be my guest.

Also, to whom do you answer on the floors? Other PAs? NPs? Or the physician? Tell me "doctor" when a PA/NP F's up who is ultimately responsible? Maybe if we allowed you guys to call yourselves doctors, you would also be liable for your mistakes. Only then, the public would catch on to the farce which has slowly infested our health care system.

Its not arrogance…it’s the truth…get used to it…you have voluntarily chosen an occupation to assist people like me.

Troll, MD

QUESTION 1. I give the orders. I write the orders. I write the prescritions. I am licensed in my state to practice independently. No one cosigns anything. I bill and cover my own overhead in my practice.

2. I answer to my medical staff COLLEAGUES and my patients. That became a fact the day I passed my boards. I am also liable for my own mistakes. I have 3,000,000 (that's million) coverage. Just like my 2 partners.

3. Please....the worst thing any new doctor can have is too much pride. Someday you'll be faced with a situation and realize that. Until then I wish you well. I hope you also find some happiness inside.

 

[lizzied2003]

Huh! Once again you have outsmarted everybody! I'm not a PA. Part of what I do is pre-professional advising for aspiring physicians, PA's, nurses, PT's, and so forth. In case you haven’t figured out ProZackboy, I really don't take these forums seriously, but use them as a tool to get the inside scoop about things (I learn a lot). In all honesty though, I do have an overall preference for the PA (medical model) vs. the nursing model. Probably because I'm a scientist and it fits me better. I routinely advise nurses who are considering mid-level NP to consider PA if they have the science background and if they can swing full-time study. However, I also understand that for many nurses the NP route makes sense if they have a family and can't commit to PA school. Many NP programs are flexible, three days a week, allow you to work full-time, and require less demanding clinical education. If I were a nurse, I would be crazy not to consider NP training especially if I had a family (also, they have strong lobbying power). I do seriously question whether training as a nurse should exempt them from being a generalist and taking the heavier course loads that are typical in PA training.
I also understand that the midlevel nurses have done well in the Psych and midwifery specialties. I do believe (in fact I know it) that all the new "clinical doctorate" doctorates are inflated (a lot). I'm probably more receptive to physicians being awarded a "doctorate" because it's an older tradition and their training is extensive clinically (more than any other clinical profession by a long shot...at least that I know of.)

I do think that your whole story lacks a lot of credibility! In my experiences, I have never heard any physician of any sort begin to suggest that a PA's role (or the practice provisions) is similar to a Para educator/teachers aid or legal assistant. Much of what you say reminds me of somebody who might be living double lives. One which is reality and one that is on the internet being who you wish you were.

Just experiences from my angle! L.

I'm happy to hear that you do give encouragement to some to pursue NP. I always believed you didn't so thanks for clearing that up.
Lizzie

 

[lizzied2003]

Use the following principle:

Who gives the orders and who takes them? If you find yourself in the latter end of the equation...you shouldn’t be calling yourself a doctor in front of a patient. This may just save your job someday. Again, at home, be my guest.

Also, to whom do you answer on the floors? Other PAs? NPs? Or the physician? Tell me "doctor" when a PA/NP F's up who is ultimately responsible? Maybe if we allowed you guys to call yourselves doctors, you would also be liable for your mistakes. Only then, the public would catch on to the farce which has slowly infested our health care system.

Its not arrogance…it’s the truth…get used to it…you have voluntarily chosen an occupation to assist people like me.

Troll, MD

I am surprised that you didn't know that an MD can not be held liable for a NP actions unless he directly supervised "as in: 'discussed with dr. Joe who suggested that I do a b or c." or if he cosigns (there by agreeing) the note. In my state that doesn't happen unless the physician is so greedy that he wants 100% reimbursement for the work of the NP rather than the 85% the Np can bill for. In other words...the NP does the work, the doc signs and bills at his level and more money comes in. Believe it or not some docs and np's think this is a great idea. However, come litagation time it's deep pockets and the whole boat goes. So, know you know that you can not be sued as a DOCTOR for an NP unless you directly sign/etc. Look up the guidelines speak to an attorney, but please don't make generalizations and stuff you 'think' yo know.
Thanks doc.

 

[prairiedog]

Huh! Once again you have outsmarted everybody! I'm not a PA. Part of what I do is pre-professional advising for aspiring physicians, PA's, nurses, PT's, and so forth. In case you haven’t figured out ProZackboy, Many NP programs are flexible, three days a week, allow you to work full-time, and require less demanding clinical education. I also understand that the midlevel nurses have done well in the Psych and midwifery specialties. I do believe (in fact I know it) that all the new "clinical doctorate" doctorates are inflated (a lot).

Please tell us where you can get a DNP and work FULL time and complete in less than two years. I would like to check out this curriculum

 

[lizzied2003]

Please tell us where you can get a DNP and work FULL time and complete in less than two years. I would like to check out this curriculum

Yes, i agree. I don't think you can do DNP and work full time.
When I got my masters as an NP I didn't work (except per diem) for the first year and a half. My father was quite ill so my full time job was my dad.
The last year of school I did work and I had clinical 2 full days a week along with a class. It was challenging but I didn't have a choice, I needed to work.

I could not work my full time job as an NP and go to school full time for DNP. I don't think it is possible, in fact I'd say it is not possible. You can not give 100 percent to working as an NP and do well in school (of course there are exceptions). IMO.

Last, of course there has been success in midwifery. Midwives have been birthing babies for years, I think even pre-masters degree.

 

[lawguil]

Please tell us where you can get a DNP and work FULL time and complete in less than two years. I would like to check out this curriculum

Where did I say you could? You can complete an NP program in two years working full-time and can complete a DNP in three working full time at Univ. of Colorado.
http://www2.uchsc.edu/son/education/content/downloads/Post-MS-PTProgPln-Fall05.pdf



Check out the U of Tenn FNP schedule (offered primarily online) (very weak)!

http://www.utmem.edu/nursing/academic programs/MSN/MSN schedules/msnfnpschedule.php

 

[lizzied2003]

Where did I say you could? You can complete an NP program in two years working full-time and can complete a DNP in three working full time at Univ. of Colorado.
http://www2.uchsc.edu/son/education/content/downloads/Post-MS-PTProgPln-Fall05.pdf



Check out the U of Tenn FNP schedule (offered primarily online) (very weak)!

http://www.utmem.edu/nursing/academic programs/MSN/MSN schedules/msnfnpschedule.php

I'm sure we agree on this one....online programs to prepare one for 'clinical practice' seem shady.
On the other hand...
I think U. Colorado has a very good nursing reputation though as I think they are pioneers in nursing theory. how many DNP programs are there? I only heard of Columbia.

 

[gnome]

As A Primary Care Physician, I Can Say Ive Noted More Than Once A Pa Or Np Encouraging Patients To Call Them Doctor. I Never Called Them On It. Im A Newbie To This Forum, And Hate To Start Out Like This, But Heres An Announcement To All Pas And Nps:
You Are Not Doctors. Dentists, Podiatrists, Optometrists, And Pharmacists Are Doctors, However None Of Them Are Physicians. If You Are Any Of The Above, Do Not Call Yourself A Physician. If You Are A Np Or Pa Do Not Call Yourself A Doctor Or A Physician. Go And Earn A Clinical Doctoral Degree In A Field That Was Not Designed To Assist A Physician (pa) Or Administer A Physicians Orders (np).

Go To Med School, Dental School, Optometry School, Podiatry School, Pharm School, Or Even Get A Phd In Something If Being Called "dr" Is What Turns You On. Heck, Pick Up A Phd In "university Studies" Or Something Like That.
Just Know Your Role And Place On The Food Chain. Ps - It Is Below Chiropractors, Credentially Speaking.

 

[lizzied2003]

As A Primary Care Physician, I Can Say Ive Noted More Than Once A Pa Or Np Encouraging Patients To Call Them Doctor. I Never Called Them On It. Im A Newbie To This Forum, And Hate To Start Out Like This, But Heres An Announcement To All Pas And Nps:
You Are Not Doctors. Dentists, Podiatrists, Optometrists, And Pharmacists Are Doctors, However None Of Them Are Physicians. If You Are Any Of The Above, Do Not Call Yourself A Physician. If You Are A Np Or Pa Do Not Call Yourself A Doctor Or A Physician. Go And Earn A Clinical Doctoral Degree In A Field That Was Not Designed To Assist A Physician (pa) Or Administer A Physicians Orders (np).

Go To Med School, Dental School, Optometry School, Podiatry School, Pharm School, Or Even Get A Phd In Something If Being Called "dr" Is What Turns You On. Heck, Pick Up A Phd In "university Studies" Or Something Like That.
Just Know Your Role And Place On The Food Chain. Ps - It Is Below Chiropractors, Credentially Speaking.

whatever.

 

[fuegorama]

As A Primary Care Physician, I Can Say Ive Noted More Than Once A Pa Or Np Encouraging Patients To Call Them Doctor. I Never Called Them On It. Im A Newbie To This Forum, And Hate To Start Out Like This, But Heres An Announcement To All Pas And Nps:
You Are Not Doctors. Dentists, Podiatrists, Optometrists, And Pharmacists Are Doctors, However None Of Them Are Physicians. If You Are Any Of The Above, Do Not Call Yourself A Physician. If You Are A Np Or Pa Do Not Call Yourself A Doctor Or A Physician. Go And Earn A Clinical Doctoral Degree In A Field That Was Not Designed To Assist A Physician (pa) Or Administer A Physicians Orders (np).

Go To Med School, Dental School, Optometry School, Podiatry School, Pharm School, Or Even Get A Phd In Something If Being Called "dr" Is What Turns You On. Heck, Pick Up A Phd In "university Studies" Or Something Like That.
Just Know Your Role And Place On The Food Chain. Ps - It Is Below Chiropractors, Credentially Speaking.

Wow! Great first post.
I believe you hit the trifecta of insulting, inflammatory and incorrect at one blow. Strong work!

I gotta say you have outdone yourself with the nauseating use of capitals for every first letter of every word except "dr". (it's ok to capitalize that one)

If you are a physician, it would be more fitting to take the high road. Yes, you are frustrated and angry w/ the somewhat alarming evolution of the American midlevel. However, there are voices and potential allies in this forum and in this thread (fab4, lizzie, EMPA etc.)that deserve your respect.

I encourage a deep breath and then another try with a little civility this time.

 

[lizzied2003]

Wow! Great first post.
I believe you hit the trifecta of insulting, inflammatory and incorrect at one blow. Strong work!

I gotta say you have outdone yourself with the nauseating use of capitals for every first letter of every word except "dr". (it's ok to capitalize that one)

If you are a physician, it would be more fitting to take the high road. Yes, you are frustrated and angry w/ the somewhat alarming evolution of the American midlevel. However, there are voices and potential allies in this forum and in this thread (fab4, lizzie, EMPA etc.)that deserve your respect.

I encourage a deep breath and then another try with a little civility this time.

Nice post. Always good to have a voice of reason. I had to edit my post as I suspect the guy was a trouble maker and not worth my time.

and I found it odd, I mean why would this very important dr. hangout on a midlevel board??

thanks again.

 

[lizzied2003]

And sometimes I think to myself:

Holy crap...if I went to medical school would I automatically have to act like I'm better than everyone else??

 

[gnome]

please explain what a NPs role entails...

 

[gnome]

WHY? BECAUSE 98% OF MY DAY INVOLVES COORDINATING WITH NURSES. WHY NOT DROP BY AND CHECK OUT THE VIBE, ONLY TO LEARN THAT THE FORUM REEKS OF THOSE NPS AND PAS WANTING TO CALL THEMSELVES DOCTORS. I SPENT ALOT OF MONEY, UNDERWENT VERY MUCH STRESS, AND ALOT OF TIME IN OBTAINING MY DEGREE, AND NATURALLY I FEAR WHEN SOMEONE CAN TAKE THE BACK DOOR TO BECOMING A DOCTOR, OR EVEN WORSE CALLING THEMSELVES DOCTORS WITHOUT ACTUALLY BEING DOCTORS. FOR THE SAKE OF THE VERY WELL TRAINED NURSES AND ASSISTANTS, STOP THE INSANITY.

 

[fuegorama]

WHY? BECAUSE 98% OF MY DAY INVOLVES COORDINATING WITH NURSES. WHY NOT DROP BY AND CHECK OUT THE VIBE, ONLY TO LEARN THAT THE FORUM REEKS OF THOSE NPS AND PAS WANTING TO CALL THEMSELVES DOCTORS. I SPENT ALOT OF MONEY, UNDERWENT VERY MUCH STRESS, AND ALOT OF TIME IN OBTAINING MY DEGREE, AND NATURALLY I FEAR WHEN SOMEONE CAN TAKE THE BACK DOOR TO BECOMING A DOCTOR, OR EVEN WORSE CALLING THEMSELVES DOCTORS WITHOUT ACTUALLY BEING DOCTORS. FOR THE SAKE OF THE VERY WELL TRAINED NURSES AND ASSISTANTS, STOP THE INSANITY.

And would you please locate the caps lock at the left hand of your keyboard. I find it hard to type while covering my ears.

 

[deleted6669]

please explain what a NPs role entails...

you didn't ask what pa's do...I'll give you a hint...it isn't "assisting physicians" (handing them instruments, etc...that would be medical assistant or nurse).
we legally require INDIRECT physician supervision. that means an md reviews 10% of my charts within 1 month. the md does not need to be physically present on the premises while I see pts and I am not required to consult on any specific type of pt as long as I submit 10% of my charts for review within 1 month. 1 of my jobs is staffing a small er where I am scheduled interchangeably with fp md's.
stable pts I evaluate and tx, unstable pts I stabilize and transfer.
I have my own dea # and can write for sch 2-5 narcotics on my own signature.
I have limits(of course) and always consult and/or transfer as needed when a case exceeds my ability. I do not call myself doctor and correct pts( a few times) when they call me this.
I respect that you spent 11 yrs to obtain your training. please respect that I took 9 yrs to obtain mine: bs#1 with premed requirements( 4 yrs), paramedic school( 1 yr full time), bs#2 in pa studies( 3 yrs), postgrad masters in clinical em( 1 yr).
additonal training: acls(provider and instructor)/atls/pals/nrp/fluoroscopy cert./treadmill cert, etc, etc...have taught at 2 fp residency programs and precepted r1-r3 fp residents as well as r2 and r3 visiting em residents.

 

[fab4fan]

please explain what a NPs role entails...

Don't you think you should know what it is before you attempt to criticize it, as you did in your previous post?

 

[Cap'nOblivious]

As A Primary Care Physician, I Can Say Ive Noted More Than Once A Pa Or Np Encouraging Patients To Call Them Doctor. I Never Called Them On It.

You should have. Your beef is with them, not the posters on this forum.

Is there anything more tired than the "If you want to be a ____, go to ___ school" instructions that are flung around here? Personally, I wanted to be a costume designer, but ended up in nurse anesthesia school. If someone would have just told me.....

 

[fab4fan]

You should have. Your beef is with them, not the posters on this forum.

Is there anything more tired than the "If you want to be a ____, go to ___ school" instructions that are flung around here? Personally, I wanted to be a costume designer, but ended up in nurse anesthesia school. If someone would have just told me.....

I'm still waiting for an invitation to be the "5th Beatle."

And you're right, there are few whines more overused than the one you cited. ("Second verse, same as the first...") If people are truly misrepresenting themselves, then they should be called on it, and they should be reported to their respective licensing boards. But that would take guts; much easier to just rant. And if someone is aware of an individual who is misrepresenting himself/herself, then that person is obligated to report it. So, by staying silent, gnome is just as guilty and could face disciplinary action against his license, if the abuses he describes are as rampant as his post suggests.

Time to pony up, gnome.

 

[zenman]

I'm sure we agree on this one....online programs to prepare one for 'clinical practice' seem shady.

Why in any stretch of the imagination would they seem shady? The top universities in the country have online programs. Whether a course is "to prepare one for clinical courses" or not for clinical courses is not an issue. The clinical is done in a clinical setting.

I have two masters from the traditional route and a BSN via distance education. After having earned an MBA, I'd say it is very inefficient to drive to class, find parking, etc. rather than use that time in a more constructive manner. I'm currently in UAB's online FNP program and I view the class videos online, chat with fellow students and instructors, take tests online, and do plenty of reading and homework. I'm going into my final exam this weekend in advanced pharm (taught by 6 Pharm. D.s) with a 105 average so hopefully I won't blow it too bad! Plus I get to pay resident fees for the course...a measly $748 per 3 hr course!

Sitting in a classroom is old fashioned. According to Trump, "you would be fired for such a decision!"

 

[deleted6669]

"I'm going into my final exam this weekend in advanced pharm"

best of luck. I remember our pharm final: 3 hrs, cumulative over an entire years worth of material, and included essay questions. lots of fun.
course was taught by the md, pharmd staff from the medschool.
best of luck my friend.

 

[lizzied2003]

WHY? BECAUSE 98% OF MY DAY INVOLVES COORDINATING WITH NURSES. WHY NOT DROP BY AND CHECK OUT THE VIBE, ONLY TO LEARN THAT THE FORUM REEKS OF THOSE NPS AND PAS WANTING TO CALL THEMSELVES DOCTORS. I SPENT ALOT OF MONEY, UNDERWENT VERY MUCH STRESS, AND ALOT OF TIME IN OBTAINING MY DEGREE, AND NATURALLY I FEAR WHEN SOMEONE CAN TAKE THE BACK DOOR TO BECOMING A DOCTOR, OR EVEN WORSE CALLING THEMSELVES DOCTORS WITHOUT ACTUALLY BEING DOCTORS. FOR THE SAKE OF THE VERY WELL TRAINED NURSES AND ASSISTANTS, STOP THE INSANITY.

And what..the other 2% is involved in patient care? I'd do them a favor and spend about 50% more time with a good shrink. Then you could openly discuss your 'FEAR', perhaps it's more deep seated that something as ridiculous as this.

You are a very angry person and even a little jealous I'd say.

 

[lizzied2003]

Why in any stretch of the imagination would they seem shady? The top universities in the country have online programs. Whether a course is "to prepare one for clinical courses" or not for clinical courses is not an issue. The clinical is done in a clinical setting.

I have two masters from the traditional route and a BSN via distance education. After having earned an MBA, I'd say it is very inefficient to drive to class, find parking, etc. rather than use that time in a more constructive manner. I'm currently in UAB's online FNP program and I view the class videos online, chat with fellow students and instructors, take tests online, and do plenty of reading and homework. I'm going into my final exam this weekend in advanced pharm (taught by 6 Pharm. D.s) with a 105 average so hopefully I won't blow it too bad! Plus I get to pay resident fees for the course...a measly $748 per 3 hr course!

Sitting in a classroom is old fashioned. According to Trump, "you would be fired for such a decision!"

Zenman, I understand your postion but I'm referring to clinical component not the academic component. I still believe in the power or a preceptor/mentor.
lizzie

 

[fuegorama]

Why in any stretch of the imagination would they seem shady? The top universities in the country have online programs. Whether a course is "to prepare one for clinical courses" or not for clinical courses is not an issue. The clinical is done in a clinical setting.

I have two masters from the traditional route and a BSN via distance education. After having earned an MBA, I'd say it is very inefficient to drive to class, find parking, etc. rather than use that time in a more constructive manner. I'm currently in UAB's online FNP program and I view the class videos online, chat with fellow students and instructors, take tests online, and do plenty of reading and homework. I'm going into my final exam this weekend in advanced pharm (taught by 6 Pharm. D.s) with a 105 average so hopefully I won't blow it too bad! Plus I get to pay resident fees for the course...a measly $748 per 3 hr course!

Sitting in a classroom is old fashioned. According to Trump, "you would be fired for such a decision!"

Good luck on your exam.
Zen-
You give a fair description of your class time. I agree w/ the whole drive in thing. While tapes are weak (dated, not interactive etc.) I see a huge future in live on-line lecture.

Now could you detail your clinical exposure in this curriculum?
Thanks.

 

[fuegorama]

Here's a link of physician and medical student discussion on this topic. Some of it is inflammatory and may get up some hackles, but the context and replies re:the choice to NP are fairly accurate and consistent w/many themes in this thread.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=268296&page=2&pp=25

 

[SDN]

Banned gnome for being a troll.

 

[prairiedog]

Where did I say you could? You can complete an NP program in two years working full-time and can complete a DNP in three working full time at Univ. of Colorado.
http://www2.uchsc.edu/son/education/content/downloads/Post-MS-PTProgPln-Fall05.pdf



Check out the U of Tenn FNP schedule (offered primarily online) (very weak)!

http://www.utmem.edu/nursing/academic programs/MSN/MSN schedules/msnfnpschedule.php

Looks like the Colorado program is a post masters, not a generic DNP. Would this mean a total of 2 years of FNP/MSN and followed by 2 years part time for the DNP. I wonder what Colorado considers as full time in graduate school. I know many graduate schools consider 8-9 credits as full time.

 

[fab4fan]

Banned gnome for being a troll.

Thanks!

 

[deleted87716]

Banned gnome for being a troll.

Further proof that you can find anything with Google.

 

[zenman]

Good luck on your exam.
Zen-
You give a fair description of your class time. I agree w/ the whole drive in thing. While tapes are weak (dated, not interactive etc.) I see a huge future in live on-line lecture.

Now could you detail your clinical exposure in this curriculum?
Thanks.

Thanks. I'm setting up clinical with the Indian Health Services in the states. I could do it in any country with a USA trained NP or MD trained and board certified in the states, but I'm part Cherokee and like to dance in circles. Here I come, my brothers!

 

[99.99%]

I would appreciate some definitions and answers. What is the "scope of practice for DPTs and DNPs? Are they PCPs? Are they the clinical equivalent of a DO/MD?

What is doctoral level? Does a thesis make something 'doctoral'? If all that's required for a doctorate is 5 semesters of post-graduate theory w/ a thesis and a smattering of clinical time, why would/should anyone go to the trouble of a bachelor's + 4 years of medical school + 3-8 yrs residency and all the associated boards?

And how do you define competition? Are these new degrees directly competing w/physicians for market share? Can they self refer? Should they?
Thanks.

Just want to make a point of correction here. After 4yrs of med school you are called Dr. That does not mean you are the most schooled or educated person. You are a Doctor in Medicine. It doesn't take four years to have a PhD after a Bachelors especially if you go for Master and of course in a good school.
Secondly it is not the thesis which confers the doctorate. It is the education/clinical exposure/ research. Some programs require a Thesis even for Bachelors that doesn't make their Bachelors a Doctorate.
Thanks

 

[lawguil]

It doesn't take four years to have a PhD after a Bachelors especially if you go for Master and of course in a good school. [/B]
Thanks

I'm confused by this point! Explain?