Doctor-Patient Deal Breakers

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Adam Smasher

APMA Seal of Approval
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
1,130
Reaction score
2,338
What are your dealbreakers? We put up with a lot of nonsense from our patients...because podiatry...but how far is too far? This isn't about ego or having a superiority complex for me. Rather, it's about asserting our boundaries so we don't burn out on things we don't need to be doing so we can be at 100% for the things we DO need to be doing.

Let's get through the obvious ones: drug seeking, violent threats, harassing doctors/staff/other patients, medical legal.

1. Early on in practice, I had an obese wheelchair bound lady who didn't like to extend her legs because she was too fat and disgusting to do so comfortably. She expected me to sit on the floor to trim her toenails for her. I think I did it one time because I was only about 2 weeks on the job and still used to being abused in residency. 2nd visit I said to her either put up your legs for 5min or go elsewhere

2. I had a c&c patient who was really demanding about everything. His insurance paid good for the c&c so I tolerated him at first. He had prediabetes but wanted magic shoes from me. I told him only patients with actual diabetes are eligible for magic shoes. He must have hassled his PCP to diagnose him with diabetes because as soon as that diagnosis was made, he made life miserable for my staff about getting those shoes. That's not the best part. He takes a bloodthinner and I guess his toenails scratched is legs in bed at night, so he wanted his nails trimmed every month. He came in with a note from his PCP stating he needed monthly nail care "owing to his diabetes and vascular disease." I then proceeded to lay a verbal smackdown upon this patient like an elementary school principal to a disruptive little boy, telling him that there is zero medical justification for monthly nailcare appointments, that this is a waste of scarce medical resources (i.e. my time), and that he would need to take some responsibility for his own personal hygiene.

As we can see, it always comes back to toenails. Any other deal breakers out there?

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
  • Care
Reactions: 5 users
Having to pull out the crayons and coloring book to trace around the patient’s shoes for reimbursement.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 5 users
Members don't see this ad :)
A lady came in to pick up her custom orthotics. She was not happy that the arch was a little less supportive than her older pair so she wants them sent back and the arch made higher.

She then asks me to trim her hallux nail because it is a little bit long and bothering her. On her way out the office manager asked her if she had any services performed and she said "no". OM responds "you had your toenail cut." The lady responded, "I won't pay for that, he should do it just to be nice, and I want to speak to the manager" and then she walked out. She went full Karen.

Originally I was not going to charge anything for the nail or the orthotics visit but she got a bill after that.


Side question. Can we get in trouble for cursing at a patient and telling them to leave? Is this something a physician can be sued for? I will happily tell this Karen off if she has this attitude when she comes back in.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
I am very accepting with my patients and look past most problems or hygiene etc. The only times I have fired patients were if they were hostile to me or my staff, or when they were accusatory of stuff when I am clearly trying to go out of my way to help them (accusations of wanting to amputate or debride for money when they have pus pouring out of their foot, etc).
 
Can we get in trouble for cursing at a patient and telling them to leave?
Yes, they can't sue you but they can report you to the state dept of professional licensure (or equivalent) for professional misconduct. Probably nothing costly but it will create a headache you don't need.

Edit: you can still tell people who need to leave that they should leave, just you can't curse at them.
 
1. Early on in practice, I had an obese wheelchair bound lady who didn't like to extend her legs because she was too fat and disgusting to do so comfortably. She expected me to sit on the floor to trim her toenails for her. I think I did it one time because I was only about 2 weeks on the job and still used to being abused in residency. 2nd visit I said to her either put up your legs for 5min or go elsewhere
I took over several patients from a coworker like this. I refuse to do it. I tell them "nope, prop your feet up on the chair."
 
Yes, they can't sue you but they can report you to the state dept of professional licensure (or equivalent) for professional misconduct. Probably nothing costly but it will create a headache you don't need.

Edit: you can still tell people who need to leave that they should leave, just you can't curse at them.
Can we cast curses on them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I recently had a patient who had PTTD and a BMI of 40. Obviously in need of bariatric surgery for her foot problems. Anyway, I gave her the only option that I could think of an Arizona brace b/l.

She wore them for a couple weeks but brought them back because they were rubbing on a certain area so we sent them out to lab to be modified.

While waiting for her braces to return, she writes a very long negative review on google. Keep in mind she still has to come back to the office to pick up her braces.

She also has yet to pay for the braces.

So I actually personally called her stating she needed to pay her balance prior to picking up the braces. Obviously she was not happy and was screaming at me over the phone.

She then calls back 2-3 times that afternoon telling my staff that she's so sorry and she really wants to keep me as her podiatrist etc.

I said no way. She can come pick up the braces and leave.

I think we lost like 2-300 on those due to insurance reimbursement, but a lesson was learned that I should just write those patients an RX. I sent her a discharge letter the next week.

I literally just tried to help someone who probably has no great options, and lost money/time/and dealt with a lot of aggravation over this and I have a review that I'm sure my children will read someday.

So I guess for me the deal breaker is someone leaving a negative review and still thinking that somehow they are going to continue the doctor/patient relationship. Like how are we supposed to go on and just pretend that didn't happen?

She put it on like 5 different review sites. Some I didn't even know existed.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Sad
  • Care
Reactions: 3 users
100%. Let pedorthist do it with their workshop and worker gnomes.

This is what a field that wasn’t grossly oversaturated would do but… ya know, podiatry…
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Patients can yell their frustrations at me all they want.
But once they yell at my office staff its game over.
They get a termination letter sent out in mail same day.
I dont deal with that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Ugnaughts?
1688000676853.gif
 
  • Like
  • Care
Reactions: 1 users
My dealbreaker is phonecalls that should be office visits. I took one today for a patient that I like who is a post-op, but it occurred to me after the call that I hadn't done it in forever. If someone calls and refuses to tell the receptionist why they are calling - all the best, I will not call you back. Make an office visit. Someone wants to talk at the receptionist window - make 'em a visit and collect a copay.

Dropping bad insurances, the E&M change, increasing pedicurist pricing etc has substantially improved the quality of my clinic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
My dealbreaker is phonecalls that should be office visits. I took one today for a patient that I like who is a post-op, but it occurred to me after the call that I hadn't done it in forever. If someone calls and refuses to tell the receptionist why they are calling - all the best, I will not call you back. Make an office visit. Someone wants to talk at the receptionist window - make 'em a visit and collect a copay.

Dropping bad insurances, the E&M change, increasing pedicurist pricing etc has substantially improved the quality of my clinic.
We can bill for these calls now. Its max like 0.5 wRVU and more work than its worth to bill it out but at least can get paid now.

mychart/inpatient portal messages are the worst. "Hey doc can you call me I have a question" from a patient who hasnt been treated in 2 years
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I have a template I send to my secretary "please contact the pt to convey my regrets that my schedule will not permit an extended discussion. However, if the pt has a specific question, I would be most content to relay an answer. At the pt's choosing, they are welcome to schedule an appt during which I may fully address all of their concerns"
 
Most good ones mentioned already. Epic 'Pt advice request' are the bane of my existence.

Hostility towards the staff is not tolerated.

But also, don't f'in be late. I don't care if you're 2 or 102, if you're late, I'm not seeing you. It drives me insane to run behind and try my best to see everyone within 5 min of their appointment time. You make your appt with a real person, get 2 robo-calls, a reminder call from a real person and a mychart reminder. Don't be late. I'd rather piss off every patient that strolls in 7 minutes after their appt than piss off a single person who shows up 15 min early and I don't get to them until 30 min after their appt time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
But also, don't f'in be late. I don't care if you're 2 or 102, if you're late, I'm not seeing you. It drives me insane to run behind and try my best to see everyone within 5 min of their appointment time. You make your appt with a real person, get 2 robo-calls, a reminder call from a real person and a mychart reminder. Don't be late. I'd rather piss off every patient that strolls in 7 minutes after their appt than piss off a single person who shows up 15 min early and I don't get to them until 30 min after their appt time.
Really wish my healthcare admin understood this one.
"there is no late patient, we see them all, we want to provide high quality health care to all"
Yeah. Sure. High profits at the expense of your struggling providers.
All the providers in the hospital complain about it but doesnt matter.
If they 14min late they get 1 min visit. Thats how I treat them.
 
Really wish my healthcare admin understood this one.
"there is no late patient, we see them all, we want to provide high quality health care to all"
Yeah. Sure. High profits at the expense of your struggling providers.
All the providers in the hospital complain about it but doesnt matter.
If they 14min late they get 1 min visit. Thats how I treat them.
Ya the worse is when they check in at the front desk 14 mins after their scheduled appt (15 mins is the no show cut off) and by the time they are roomed, it’s 30 mins past their scheduled appt. Even worse when it’s a nail callous patient and end up bitching why they wasted a co pay. Have a blessed day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
My deal breaker is people who want their one dystrophic toenail miraculously cured after it was injured 10 years ago. Nothing beats an amazing online review from these people who said I didnt spend enough time with them or offer a "cure." Cherry on top is when they have medical comorbidities that they are noncompliant with yet they want to focus on their "fungal toenail."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
My deal breaker is people who want their one dystrophic toenail miraculously cured after it was injured 10 years ago. Nothing beats an amazing online review from these people who said I didnt spend enough time with them or offer a "cure." Cherry on top is when they have medical comorbidities that they are noncompliant with yet they want to focus on their "fungal toenail."

Maybe you should consider referring these patients to somebody that has a practice that is more appropriate for these complex patients such as a total toenail replacement surgeon?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Maybe you should consider referring these patients to somebody that has a practice that is more appropriate for these complex patients such as a total toenail replacement surgeon?
I thought of you Tuesday as I sat in a patient room and Google a private practice where they could get KerryFlex done. I am not a strong total toenail replacement surgeon.
 
My deal breaker is people who want their one dystrophic toenail miraculously cured after it was injured 10 years ago. Nothing beats an amazing online review from these people who said I didnt spend enough time with them or offer a "cure." Cherry on top is when they have medical comorbidities that they are noncompliant with yet they want to focus on their "fungal toenail."
Doc I get it, my a1c is 13 and my EF is 25 percent. But what about this toenail?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Doc I get it, my a1c is 13 and my EF is 25 percent. But what about this toenail?

Yeah, I hate it when they complain about EF. EF, External fungus, is usually a pathology that I will struggle with. Typically, a matrixectomy is my procedure of choice for anyone with an EF of over 40%.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 6 users
For me it’s taking pictures or videos of me performing care for a family member without my consent. I don’t want to be fodder on their social media page as much as they wouldn’t like it if I posted their face on my mine (which would be HIPAA violation anyways).

I’ve also discharged patients for personal insults directed at myself. I once discharged a patient who’s family member sarcastically asked me “how many years of training did you do just to cut toenails?”. Then her and the patient laughed at my expense.

I didn’t make a scene. Just sent them a termination letter for disrespectful comments after the appointment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
For me it’s taking pictures or videos of me performing care for a family member without my consent. I don’t want to be fodder on their social media page as much as they wouldn’t like it if I posted their face on my mine (which would be HIPAA violation anyways).

I’ve also discharged patients for personal insults directed at myself. I once discharged a patient who’s family member sarcastically asked me “how many years of training did you do just to cut toenails?”. Then her and the patient laughed at my expense.

I didn’t make a scene. Just sent them a termination letter for disrespectful comments after the appointment.
They ALL want to videotape nail removals. Ill be doing my thing then look up and there is their phone recording everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
They ALL want to videotape nail removals. Ill be doing my thing then look up and there is their phone recording everything.
Have had it happen twice in the last year. Both times, they didn’t even ask. I hated it. It makes me feel so uncomfortable. I’m just a gd foot doctor, I don’t want to be on your social media.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top