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Doctors...can they TEACH and how?

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drwannabe44

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Okay so i wanted to know what doctors need to do in order to teach ? What do they need to do to teach at medical school or graduate school or even undergraduate school? Do they need a Ph.D or nething?
 

SoupWithAFork

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Good question.. I'd like to know as well. I don't think you need a PhD to teach in med school though.
 

Vox Animo

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All you need is a well funded grant and project that can be done at the school in question. :D
 

MossPoh

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I think you'd just need to be affiliated with the school's hospital and what not....research for them or whatever else. My dad taught for about a year span at University of Miami...I never really asked him about it...but that was in the 70's so stuff was a bit different. ;)
 

Kuba

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A lot of people that will teach you in med school will be PhD's only( basic sciences esp.), some will be MDs only, some will be MD/PhD/JD/MBA/MPH/basketweaving
 

Arsenic

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SoupWithAFork said:
Good question.. I'd like to know as well. I don't think you need a PhD to teach in med school though.
you'll definitely get a lot of lecturers in med school that are solely MDs. course coordinators at my school did a great job of integrating the PhDs and MD's into the lecture schedules as they needed, i'm sure its like that at most schools. so for example, in a biochemistry class you might get several lectures from a PhD but then you'd also get lectures from MDs on something like management and therapy of cholesterol or something. the bottom line is that if you want to teach in med school you totally can with just your MD, those were usually our best lecturers since they knew exactly how this stuff would be important to us in our careers.
 

Captain Fantastic

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Not exactly in the line of what you were asking, but attending at a teaching hospital will afford you lots of opportunity to teach interns and residents the practice of medicine.
 

Oculus Sinistra

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DRKUBA said:
A lot of people that will teach you in med school will be PhD's only( basic sciences esp.), some will be MDs only, some will be MD/PhD/JD/MBA/MPH/basketweaving


dude yes basketweaving!!!!
 

drwannabe44

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ed2brute said:
Not exactly in the line of what you were asking, but attending at a teaching hospital will afford you lots of opportunity to teach interns and residents the practice of medicine.


what kind of teaching hospitals are there?? would mcw or chicago college of osteopathic medicine (Do) be one of the choices? and you don't have to do research??? do you or neone have a website or nething that can be helpful ? also could you go into teaching right after medical school minus the residency?
 

McMD

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A teaching hospital is anywhere where you can do your residency...I'm not familiar with MCW or Chicago College-but I'm sure they have teaching hospitals *affiliated* with them...though MCW and Chicago College themselves wouldn't be "teaching hospitals." I'm not sure about teaching right after medical school, but I would assume not.
 

relentless11

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At the schools that fall under the University of California system, all professors must have at least a doctorate in something. There may be a few programs that don't abide by this since there aren't any doctorate degrees for that subject area (art?), but for the most part having a doctorate degree is required.

To be a professor in the University of California, you need to also be: (1) consistently creative (e.g., come up with new ideas, and publish!), and (2) be at least a national if not international expert in your field. Obviously, if you are not a tenure track professor, these criteria are more relaxed.

In terms of the medical side of things, we have MDs, PhDs, MD/PhDs, JDs, MD/JDs, DVMs, and DVM/PhDs teaching us. This includes the med school, grad school, and even undergrads. Some of the med school professors have started their own courses to teach undergrads, such as our gross anatomy course which is team taught by an MD/PhD and a PhD. While this one immunology course is team taught by several PhDs, MDs, DVMs, and MD/PhDs. At the hospital we have clinical professors, who are at least an MD....which ultimately translates to being an attending.

Finally, on some rare occassions, when a PhD student or even rarer a masters student leads an actual course, they may earn the title of lecturer, or student lecturer. Something like that. But thats pretty much the teaching things that I am aware of here at the UCs.

To conclude though, at the university level, you will most likely need a doctorate in something. But more importantly you better be good with what you do, and well known in what you are doing to get into a competative, well funded institution. My PI said that when he applied to his present position...20 something years ago, they essentially called up people and asked about you. How "famous" you are in your area = them feeling confident in you as a professor...since you are using their space to make them $$$ and prestiege.
 

sscooterguy

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Every doctor teaches from interns to attendings. At least you are supposed to. That is the medical model. Most daily teaching is done during rounds, which is discussion and care at the bedside. There is also more didactic teaching also.

Now as for teaching lectures, PhDs or MD's are invited to teach at most MD schools. Its usually by invite, and may or may not be part of your contract when hired. At my school, every lecturer is also evaluated by students, and those that consistently get low evals after the first few years are not invited any more. Lecturing and evals are important at my institution because it is a major factor to get tenure and promotion. For higher positions, it can be just as important as research and presenting at national conference.

sscooterguy
 

Dancing Doctor

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Oculus Sinistra said:
dude yes basketweaving!!!!

i based my school of choice on the number of basketweaving classes my professors had taken and how many we were required to take prior to graduation. that way, if nothing else I could lead arts and crafts in the pediatric ward. :laugh:
 

DropkickMurphy

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Every doctor teaches from interns to attendings. At least you are supposed to. That is the medical model.

Also known as the "See one, do one, screw that one up, do one more, teach one" model. :laugh:
 

Law2Doc

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sscooterguy said:
Every doctor teaches from interns to attendings. At least you are supposed to. That is the medical model. Most daily teaching is done during rounds, which is discussion and care at the bedside. There is also more didactic teaching also.

Now as for teaching lectures, PhDs or MD's are invited to teach at most MD schools. Its usually by invite, and may or may not be part of your contract when hired. At my school, every lecturer is also evaluated by students, and those that consistently get low evals after the first few years are not invited any more. Lecturing and evals are important at my institution because it is a major factor to get tenure and promotion. For higher positions, it can be just as important as research and presenting at national conference.

sscooterguy

Agree with this. Everyone in this profession gets to be a teacher. The mantra for procedures is "see one, do one, teach one".
As for classroom med school teaching, the basic science year courses will generally be taught by a mix of PhDs and clinicians -- more the former than the latter in the first year at most places.
 

Oculus Sinistra

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Dancing Doctor said:
i based my school of choice on the number of basketweaving classes my professors had taken and how many we were required to take prior to graduation. that way, if nothing else I could lead arts and crafts in the pediatric ward. :laugh:


I did a bit of puppeteering in high school and early college... always could fall back on that in peds if I need a pick-me-upper for one of the inpatient kids.
 

Bobblehead

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sscooterguy said:
At my school, every lecturer is also evaluated by students, and those that consistently get low evals after the first few years are not invited any more. Lecturing and evals are important at my institution because it is a major factor to get tenure and promotion. For higher positions, it can be just as important as research and presenting at national conference.

sscooterguy

Your institution is an exception in that case. While it's a nice feather in your cap, traditionally the coin of the realm is grants and publication when it comes to promotion. If you're a terrible teacher but you've got several multi-million dollar grants you're better off than if every student you ever had loved you and are working full-time clinical to support your salary.

The one thing to keep in mind is that there are very few places, in relation to number of academic institutions, where teaching is compensated in terms of salary support. Physician-educator is just not as well compensated (if at all) vs. physician-investigator. A lot of teaching responsibilities are simply added on as part of your contract and academic rank although a lot of people that stay in academics do so partially because they enjoy teaching. But most of the clinicians that come and do lectures aren't getting anything besides some self-satisfaction out of the lecture they gave.

In a worst case scenario they were simply told by their chair, etc. that they need to give a lecture and since they are the low man on the totem pole they're it.
 

Law2Doc

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Bobblehead said:
Your institution is an exception in that case. While it's a nice feather in your cap, traditionally the coin of the realm is grants and publication when it comes to promotion. If you're a terrible teacher but you've got several multi-million dollar grants you're better off than if every student you ever had loved you and are working full-time clinical to support your salary.

The one thing to keep in mind is that there are very few places, in relation to number of academic institutions, where teaching is compensated in terms of salary support. Physician-educator is just not as well compensated (if at all) vs. physician-investigator. A lot of teaching responsibilities are simply added on as part of your contract and academic rank although a lot of people that stay in academics do so partially because they enjoy teaching. But most of the clinicians that come and do lectures aren't getting anything besides some self-satisfaction out of the lecture they gave.

In a worst case scenario they were simply told by their chair, etc. that they need to give a lecture and since they are the low man on the totem pole they're it.


I agree with you that grants matter more than student evaluations for scientist teachers. Schools use the student evaluations as additional ammunition to do what they were going to do anyway. As a med student you have no influence.

In my experience the clinicians who lecture in med school (for free) are much more into teaching students than the scientists who see teaching as something pulling them away from their lab. Even in the cases where the chairman asked them to. In fact, in some cases I've see, the chairman steals the opportunity for himself and does the lecture, because it is considered the prime time to reach out to young physicians who have not yet chosen a specialty, and try to sell them on theirs. Give me a gung ho clinician over a scientists any day.
 
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