Does 730-5 Ortho Exist?

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kfcman289

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Hey, I made a post similar to this but I wanted to ask a more direct question.

How common is it to see ortho's in private practice work 730-5 days, especially in non-trauma subspecialities such as hand surgery? I understand that the hours would probably be more in an academic hospital, but is it common in private practice settings?

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Hey, I made a post similar to this but I wanted to ask a more direct question.

How common is it to see ortho's in private practice work 730-5 days, especially in non-trauma subspecialities such as hand surgery? I understand that the hours would probably be more in an academic hospital, but is it common in private practice settings?
I know private practice joint guys who work 50 hours a week and another who works closer to 80+. The later does so because he takes a lot of call (by choice), so he is constantly adding cases on at the end of his already busy joint OR days, or adding them on to weekends.

I know a guy who does sports and works closer to 40-50 and takes a ton of vacation.

Seems like in private practice you can work as much or as little as you want. Just remember, you eat what you kill in PP.
 
CAUTION: Blunt response coming. Please take it professionally and not personally as we are all trying to help everyone find success and happiness no matter where they end up in medicine (or non-medicine).

If you are PreMed and the questions you are asking are related to finding a 730-5 job then you will likely be unhappy in anything surgical. Even if you find a practice in a subspecialty that allows you to work those hours, that is over 10 years away and during those 10 years (med school, residency, early practice working tail off) you will be working much worse hours.

Do NOT count on finding 730 to 5 in Ortho. Even if it is possible, the path you need to take to get to that is long and is the antithesis of 730 to 5. Those years can make someone currently worried about work hours very miserable.

Please take a few minutes and reflect on your current priorities based on life, family, finances, etc. Now is the time to make sure you have the right mindset BEFORE you enter medical school to ensure you stay positive during some of the toughest years of your life.
 
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CAUTION: Blunt response coming. Please take it professionally and not personally as we are all trying to help everyone find success and happiness no matter where they end up in medicine (or non-medicine).

If you are PreMed and the questions you are asking are related to finding a 730-5 job then you will likely be unhappy in anything surgical. Even if you find a practice in a subspecialty that allows you to work those hours, that is over 10 years away and during those 10 years (med school, residency, early practice working tail off) you will be working much worse hours.

Do NOT count on finding 730 to 5 in Ortho. Even if it is possible, the path you need to take to get to that is long and is the antithesis of 730 to 5. Those years can make someone currently worried about work hours very miserable.

Please take a few minutes and reflect on your current priorities based on life, family, finances, etc. Now is the time to make sure you have the right mindset BEFORE you enter medical school to ensure you stay positive during some of the toughest years of your life.

Thanks for your reply. To give more specifics, suppose I was a hand surgeon working at an academic center in an urban city. Do you have a better idea of what those hours would be like?


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Thanks for your reply. To give more specifics, suppose I was a hand surgeon working at an academic center in an urban city. Do you have a better idea of what those hours would be like?


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I mean you’d be taking hand call, so in terms of hours probably not that Cush job you’re looking for.
 
Agree with @VincentAdultman , it all depends on your call schedule (how often you are on) which varies wildly depending on practice. For hand, when you are on you are often required to come in at all hours for things you are called about.

Don't count on 0730 to 5 anywhere in ortho. I say that as a military ortho guy who probably has the best lifestyle (work hours/vacation) of any orthopedic surgeon....but my case volume and scope of practice suffers because of it.
 
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When I’m in the office I usually start seeing patients at 830 and my last is scheduled for 430. On OR days you leave when the work is done, which for me is usually as late as 5 (for elective cases)

That being said In order to build a practice when you’re first starting you’re gonna have to take call. When I was on call this past Sunday I wen into the hospital at nine to operate, saw a consult and was done at around three but had to go back in at six pm for an open fracture that came into the ER.

I would say that’s pretty typical.
 
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Military Ortho attending stationed overseas; Current Department Head. I am a generalist 18 months post-residency. I do mainly sports and basic/general trauma. We are equivalent to a level 2 trauma center. Doing sports fellowship 2020.

Arrive at office 0530-0600
Leave office between 1600 to 1700 most days.
We have 5 surgeons to cover call here, therefore I'm only on call every 5th week. We take call a week at a time because intensity is reasonable.
 
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i'm gonna go out on a limb and say ortho is probably not for you
 
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Military Ortho attending stationed overseas; Current Department Head. I am a generalist 18 months post-residency. I do mainly sports and basic/general trauma. We are equivalent to a level 2 trauma center. Doing sports fellowship 2020.

Arrive at office 0530-0600
Leave office between 1600 to 1700 most days.
We have 5 surgeons to cover call here, therefore I'm only on call every 5th week. We take call a week at a time because intensity is reasonable.

Leaving the office at around 5 at the latest (or most days) seems pretty good to me. I shadow an ortho trauma in the office and he starts at 8am and finishes closer to 7pm, unreal. No time to eat between and can see 60 patients in one day. He does it to himself though I can say that honestly.

I think OP is looking for that sort of security in the future if he/she would like a family or to pursue other hobbies.
 
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Hey, I made a post similar to this but I wanted to ask a more direct question.

How common is it to see ortho's in private practice work 730-5 days, especially in non-trauma subspecialities such as hand surgery? I understand that the hours would probably be more in an academic hospital, but is it common in private practice settings?

Common, especially if you're OK with making 180K. What people don't appreciate is how challenging and time consuming it is to actually build a successful private practice after you graduate, even within a larger group. My older brother is doing it now - you have to make yourself known to referring physicians, which involves a ton of time-consuming phone calls/meetings/constant availability to see their patients on short notice. On top of this, you take call frequently in order to fulfill your contractual obligations and "bring" new patients into your practice. Finally, your senior partners will scoop up all of the self-pay/PPO insurance patients, and try and leave you with the rest. After your first/second year guarantee is up, you eat what you kill. So is it possible to work 7:30-5/6 and have your clinic full of operative patients with good insurance and be really efficient and earn near the MGMA mean? Yeah but it takes so many years after residency to actually create the infrastructure to allow this to happen.
 
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Common, especially if you're OK with making 180K. What people don't appreciate is how challenging and time consuming it is to actually build a successful private practice after you graduate, even within a larger group. My older brother is doing it now - you have to make yourself known to referring physicians, which involves a ton of time-consuming phone calls/meetings/constant availability to see their patients on short notice. On top of this, you take call frequently in order to fulfill your contractual obligations and "bring" new patients into your practice. Finally, your senior partners will scoop up all of the self-pay/PPO insurance patients, and try and leave you with the rest. After your first/second year guarantee is up, you eat what you kill. So is it possible to work 7:30-5/6 and have your clinic full of operative patients with good insurance and be really efficient and earn near the MGMA mean? Yeah but it takes so many years after residency to actually create the infrastructure to allow this to happen.
I'm an ortho staff in the midwest.

Agree with most of the above. That being said, if for some odd reason you really only wanted to work 730-5....sure, you can also just work 9-12...you just won't make much income, and green is right, it'll be hard to establish yourself if you start off slow.

what most of us do is -- out of fellowship, we're young, eager, want to operate -- so we take call, go visit family gp's, cover high school/college athletics etc to build our practice volume. As you get older, maybe in your 50's (for some earlier), you may slow. down, cover fewer community sports games, take less call...let the younger guys do that, you'll probably have an established private payer base, you'll make a bit less, but be happy doing so.

I don't know that your senior partners will poach all the ppo/consults....that may happen in some groups, maybe in ones in a big city where there is lots of competition - its likely the senior partners are established and most people in town will them private insurance consults as they know them. By taking call/ortho walk in, assuming you're in a city/town with decent payor mix and not an oversupply of orthopedic surgeons, you should get the private payers too.

yea, if you want to be in a big metro - new york, chicago, LA, etc -- then expect lots of competition. Unfortunately, medicine. simply isn't very lucrative in big cities unless you're neal elattrache, or anthony romeo and you've got device patents with passive income coming in or you're with a very powerful group that covers pro-sports teams. so all the private. insurance population wants to see you. For those privately covered people -- you'll definitely have to hustle harder in LA. just to make an average (barely) income than you would in a smaller city in the midwest or the south.


The honest truth is...once you're out, you probably won't want to do just 7-530 ortho because you won't be able to sustain your lifestyle....you may d o 7-530 ortho once you're 45/50 and accept an income trade off.
 
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Just a note, the residency is 5 yrs. A fellowship is 1 yr. Med school is 4yr.
The difference between med school and the residency and fellowship is "YOU DON'T CONTROL YOUR SCHEDULE". A teaching hospital is open 24/7 365 days of the year. Most weeks you will work about 70-80. No such thing as catching 3pm flight to go home on Christmas eve. A good chance you are working and that weekend too.
If it is possible to talk you out of ortho, then you should not do it. The OR needs to feel like the oasis in your life, all other distractions are out of your mind, fixing the problem in front of you that only very few can master. Realize that it is intense. Even if you are doing a simple routine procedure, sweat will drip down the back of your neck. You know if things go south, the patient's welfare suffers because of you. Patient outcomes drives you to perfection.
 
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