Does almost every PGY-2 applicant really match in Rad

[mrober24]

Hello all,

I was looking at some stats on the AAMC's CiM (careers in medicine) and they listed that for PGY-1 applicants to Radiology in 2003 there were 626 U.S. applicants and only 132 spots available. SO, only 20% matched as PGY-1.

HOWEVER, the stats for PGY-2 were VERY different. There were 843 positions available and 959 U.S. applicants. SO, 90% of PGY-2 applicants matched.

Does this mean that if you do not match as a PGY-1 you can do a year in General Medicine and then re-apply with a MUCH GREATER chance of matching?

Thanks for the info.

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[vyness]

There are two types of programs for rads... the first one will match you with your prelim year built in and the second type is for RAD-1 (PGY-2) only. For the match, you are applying to both at the same time. For the RAD-1/PGY-2 positions, you are in charge of finding your own prelim year, whether it be in medicine, surgery, or transitional. You can do your prelim year at the same place you match, or you can do it at a separate institution. There is a secondary rank list for your prelim year, so if you match in a PGY-2 spot, then they will look at your secondary rank list and match you for your prelim year. If you match at a program with a built-in prelim year, then your secondary rank list won't matter.

Many programs offer the built in prelim year program as well as the PGY-2 program, and most applicants will apply to both at the same time. There are just more PGY-2 spots than PGY-1 spots, with almost the same number of applicants, so that's why the match % looks better for PGY-2.

Hope this answers your question.

 

[mrober24]

Thanks a ton for the response. I am a M1 and am probably thinking way to far ahead. I just didn't understand how the match system works. It makes more since now.

The thing I still do not understand though is that a lot of people I talk to about wanting to go into Radiology tell me how hard it is to get in a program. Even the "chats" on SDN are often about people worried that they won't get into Radiology. I don't see how that is if 90% of U.S. applicants that apply match into some program. I mean does this really mean that out of 100 people who apply 90 of them will get a spot...that seems like pretty good chances to me...or is it represented this way because all those who apply have awesome boards scores and what not so those who don't, don't even bother applying.

Thanks again.
The Thinking Way to Far Ahead "Freshman"

 

[ToxicFugu]

Even the "chats" on SDN are often about people worried that they won't get into Radiology. I don't see how that is if 90% of U.S. applicants that apply match into some program.

You know, I am wondering the same exact thing myself. So Vyness, are you saying that if an applicant who, lets say, has decent numbers and credentials fails to match a PGY-2 spot in his/her first attempt, he/she can go through the match process again after a prelim year and stand a much better chance at matching rads?

I am also a "too-far ahead thinking M1." I am just curious as to how this works.

Thanks

 

[PMPMD]

You have to remember that the match stats only apply to people who were granted interviews. So just because 90% of people who got interviews matched into a rads program doesn't mean that 90% of people who applied will match.

 

[ears]

Radiology residency is generally what's known as an "advanced" residency; this means that 4th year med students apply for positions starting with their second post-graduate year after doing an internship. For example, I'm an MS-IV applying to radiology this year. So right now, I'm applying to radiology programs to start in 2006, and also to interships (transitional year programs, in my case) to start in 2005. The plan is, I'll graduate in 2005, do an internship until 2006, and then start a radiology program (I hope, anyway!).

Most radiology programs work this way; this is what's meant by a "PGY-2" spot (so those programs last four years, PGY-2 through -5). A minority of programs offer a program where they set up your internship for you, and it's all considered part of the same program (so those programs are five years, PGY-1 through -5). As I said, most programs don't do this (which is why the match statistics look different).

As for not matching and then re-applying... my understanding is that re-applicants do not fare as well as MS-IVs going through their first match. Regardless of what you want to go into, your best shot at matching into it seems to be as a fourth-year medical student.

BTW, good for you guys for thinking ahead. If you're serious about it, you can definitely turn an early interest to your advantage. Let me recommend Iserson's Getting Into a Residency to you. It's a good read, and you can definitely make more of your early medical school years if you read it now.

 

[mrober24]

Ears:

Thanks a ton. You put that very well. It all makes since now. Good luck matching into Radiology!

Sincerely,
BOB

 

[mrpinkeyes]

Ears is right on about Iserson's and the whole Rads as an advanced program is spot on. One thing to remember about the whole acceptance rate is that many people will have back-ups, either IM, prelim spots, path, gas, you name it. These people technically do not go unmatched, because they got into a program that they listed on their primary rank order list. So 90% of people matching in rads means that 10% of people applying for rads had to scramble. Most did not scramble into rads (only 5 unfilled spots this last round, as I recall).
I don't know really how to account for the 20% match rate in categorical rads. But I know that the 90% match rate in advanced positions is inflated. The real numbers to look at (which I don't have, sorry) are the number of applicants to rads compared with the number of spots.

And here's a tip that helped me match in rads this last year. On auntminnie.com, a radiology resident named Jeff Gregg posted frequently trying to dispel much of the fear and rumors as we all awaited interviews, wondered about our chances, etc. Search for him, his posts and listen to his advice.

Best of luck to each of you.

Cheers.

 

[mrober24]

Congrats on matching...that's awesome! So, you are saying that you can apply to as many Rad programs as you want and then also apply to other "secondary" fields (i.e. gas, IM) as backups in case you do not match in Rad, correct?

How much does it cost to apply to each program? Are you wanting to do IR or DR and why? Do you think Rad will become signifigantly more competative in the next few years?

 

[mrpinkeyes]

Congrats on matching...that's awesome! So, you are saying that you can apply to as many Rad programs as you want and then also apply to other "secondary" fields (i.e. gas, IM) as backups in case you do not match in Rad, correct?

How much does it cost to apply to each program? Are you wanting to do IR or DR and why? Do you think Rad will become signifigantly more competative in the next few years?

One can apply to as many Rads programs and add any other specialty(ies) as back-ups. By doing this, you can assure that you don't have to scramble come match day. However, one huge caveat to adding other specialties to your rank list is that when Match Day rolls around, you have an extra headache: sure, you know you matched, but what in? Rads or (fill-in-the-blank). When I set up my rank list, there were a few prelim medicine years that I considered adding after my rads programs. Didn't add any, though, because I knew I wanted radiology. Adding other specialties to your ROL is not unreasonable, but be cautious; there are few things worse than disappointment on Match Day. Better to take the hit a few days before when you have time to scramble and enjoy Match Day with the rest of your classmates.

As for cost of application, you have to pay a set fee for your application to a specialty which allows you to apply to 10 programs. Anything over 10 and you tack on extra cash. See http://www.aamc.org/students/eras/feesbilling/start.htm for the breakdown. You do have a one time charge ($75?) to get your "token" for ERAS (basically a registration fee) and another fee (~$60) to get your USMLE transcript sent to ERAS.

Whether Rads becomes tougher, who knows. I think it certainly could, but happily there are more Rads positions to be filled than some of the other tough specialties (Derm, Optho).

cheers.