Does anyone do research during 3rd year?

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DHMO

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I keep hearing about how little time there is for anything outside of school during third year rotations and I was wondering if anyone finds the time to do research. How about during the less time intesive rotations (like peds, psych, and family)?
 
DHMO said:
I keep hearing about how little time there is for anything outside of school during third year rotations and I was wondering if anyone finds the time to do research. How about during the less time intesive rotations (like peds, psych, and family)?

I asked this same question to one of my advisors. She said unless you already have a project that you're working on AND that project won't take too much time, you might consider it. In general, she thought it wasn't a good idea because rotations are so busy and you really should focus all your time and energy on doing well because these are the grades that count the most for residencies. After completing 4 of 6 rotations, I would agree with her...just wait until 4th year or take a year off and just do research between 3rd and 4th year.
 
DHMO said:
I keep hearing about how little time there is for anything outside of school during third year rotations and I was wondering if anyone finds the time to do research. How about during the less time intesive rotations (like peds, psych, and family)?
I tried it. I found that it cut into my study time too much and my grades suffered. If it comes down to a choice between better grades and having your name on a paper then go for the grades. They'll help your application much more.
 
I know a few 3rd years involved in research. They're all going into more competitive fields: neurosurg, ortho, ophtho. Unless you need to do it for a shot at a particular program, I agree that you should focus on 3rd year.
 
Im currently in 3rd year and involved fairly heavily in research. I have been working with the PI for four years now though and have many ongoing projects so my work mainly consists of writing manuscripts and we can communicate through email. Occaisionally I go in and help with a study or surgery when I have down time on rotations.

I think it would be tough to get anything legitimate going during third year if you have no previous research experience, would be better just to wait until 4th year.

If you do have ongoing projects though I would highly recommend sticking with it. Dont underestimate the value of meaningful research. A first author manuscript carries much more weight than an honor in some jerkoff rotation. Anyone can kiss ass and get honors if they want. It is the rare student that produces scholarly work during med school, and it will make a huge difference when applying for residency.

Make sure you're getting something out of it, if you aren't getting first author then I would agree with the others and say focus on rotations.
 
I have done research since the end of my first year and I am now almost done with my third year. I am going into pediatrics, so definately not a field where research is required to get a good residency. I wouldn't say I am heavily involved, but I do more than the vast majority of my class. I say I spend an average of 3 hours a week. Clinical research takes far less time than bench research. You do not have to be in a lab for several hours on end. You can pull info from patient's charts for an hour or two if you have some spare time. I wrote a manuscript for a journal for one study. For another study, I designed a protocol for a study and filled out the IRB application. I also applied for funding through the cardiology division of my school.

I have managed to do just as well, if not better, than my first two years of medical school. I have honored every clerkship and scored > 90th percentile for every shelf (>96th on 3 of them). And I am definately not the type of person who does well without studying. I read quite a bit and do my best to manage my time well. For example, instead of socializing for a half hour after rounds, I will read a bit before lunch. While waiting for my resident or something, I will read a topic in my palm. It saves me tons of time later on.

My point is that you don't need to sacrifice your grades, and you dont need to be going into a tough field, to do research. Just manage your time well and you can do a bunch of things during third year. And I do not completely agree with the poster who said "A first author manuscript carries much more weight than an honor in some jerkoff rotation." Where it is true that being first author is better than an honors in one rotation, it is not easy to get first authorship on a paper in a timely manner. One, if the study is not a good study (like my first one) you will have difficulty getting published. I learned this the hard way. I submitted it to two different journals before I decided to make some big changes before I submitted it to a third. Also, I have dealt with journals who have taken 7 months to make a decision regarding my manuscript. And that is only the initial decision. That does not include the time it takes to submit revisions and to proofread their draft of your manuscript to approve it for publication. In other words, if you submit a paper towards the end of your third year, it may not be published until after you have finished interviewing for residencies or even after match day. At the minimum, it will take 3 months between submission and acceptance for publication.

But, although I have never been told this by a residency program director, I still think the experience in research (without any publications) will put you a step ahead of those who have not done research. Just being able to tell a program that you have experience with basic statistics, manuscript writing, grant writing, IRB procedures, etc. should put you ahead of people who do not have this experience, assuming the program is a program that strongly values research.
 
scholes said:
And I do not completely agree with the poster who said "A first author manuscript carries much more weight than an honor in some jerkoff rotation." Where it is true that being first author is better than an honors in one rotation, it is not easy to get first authorship on a paper in a timely manner. One, if the study is not a good study (like my first one) you will have difficulty getting published. I learned this the hard way. I submitted it to two different journals before I decided to make some big changes before I submitted it to a third. Also, I have dealt with journals who have taken 7 months to make a decision regarding my manuscript. And that is only the initial decision. That does not include the time it takes to submit revisions and to proofread their draft of your manuscript to approve it for publication. In other words, if you submit a paper towards the end of your third year, it may not be published until after you have finished interviewing for residencies or even after match day. At the minimum, it will take 3 months between submission and acceptance for publication.

Not sure what you mean by not agreeing, everything you said is why a first author manuscript carries so much more weight than an honors in a rotation....there is so much more effort involved in writing a manuscript, it's a rite of passage in the academic world.
 
tigershark said:
Not sure what you mean by not agreeing, everything you said is why a first author manuscript carries so much more weight than an honors in a rotation....there is so much more effort involved in writing a manuscript, it's a rite of passage in the academic world.

What I meant, is that while it of course is a better accomplishment, it is very difficult to do. It is easy to honor a rotation if you put in a consistent effort. Getting a manuscript published is difficult, time-consuming, and dependent on many variables, such as the strength of the study itself (which you may have no control over if your advisor designed it), the novelty of the study, the politics behind the journal you submit the journal to, and so on. The process of getting published takes 6 months to a year after it is submitted sometimes. If you you submit a manuscript late in your third year, the chances of it being published before you interview for residencies is highly unlikely. If you dont get published before you interview, then it obviously has no bearing on whether you get ranked highly by that program since they will not have seen this accomplishment. Therefore, putting the time into your schoolwork may be of higher-yield. Of course, getting published is a great accomplishment, but all the work you put in may not yield the results upon you were intending. Putting in all this work at the expense of your third year performance without it yielding the final product is downright foolish.
 
I agree you should make sure you get something out of it...but it is not as impossible as you make it seem. For the last 3 manuscripts I submitted we recieved reviews within less than six weeks and were in press in less than 4 months. Many journals have a very fast review process now (some just 3-4 weeks if you get lucky), it's entirely possible to submit a manuscript in 3rd year and have it in press or published by the time you interview. Accepted and in press are just as good as published as far as residency interviewing goes.
 
If you're really interested in doing research why don't you start it at the beginning of 4th year so that you can put it on your ERAS application and talk about it at interviews even if it is not yet complete and published. You can keep your programs updated by sending letters if you make a great discovery or get published. 3rd year is just too busy to take the time to do research if you're just starting. I had q4 overnight call on peds and was sent to do FP in a small rural town 4 hrs from my med school so research wouldn't have been possible on these rotations either unless your school is very different.
 
I started doing research in january of my third year. I love it. Been very doable so far. grades and studying haven't suffered at all. I'm hoping it'll be a good CV builder.

It can be done. I know many in my class who are doing research in many disciplines.

good luck

later
 
DHMO said:
I keep hearing about how little time there is for anything outside of school during third year rotations and I was wondering if anyone finds the time to do research. How about during the less time intesive rotations (like peds, psych, and family)?

Research is for gunners. Go away.
 
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