Does AUC do animal experiments in lab?

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NiteOwl

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I am considering applying to AUC and was wondering one thing about it before applying. Do they use animals in experiments? I am talking about live animals (like some colleges use dogs in a cardio lab, and they have to be euthanized at the end). Does AUC do that kind of thing? If they do is it optional? I don't want to go to a school where I am forced to experiment on an animal like that. No, I am not one of those huge animal rights activists, I am just against doing things like cutting open a live dog to see its heart beating. Thanks for any info
 
You gotta be kidding me..... this is your deciding factor? In case you don't know this already, but when you are in a physio lab, the purpose of being there is to see things "in action". The general rule is to use a smaller animal, like a frog, to demonstrate principles of contractile tissue. You kill the organism first, without the use of chloroform because that inhibits the action potentials. You keep the heart going by adding drops of ACH (acetylcholine) onto the tissue.

Lesson for today = they kill the animal for you, then you look at it. That isn't so hard is it?

Now as for AUC, my friend never mentioned nothing about using live dogs.
 
Yeah, it is a deciding factor for me. I am not going to do something to a dog that is so bad that it has to be killed at the end of the experiment! You can see things "in action" be watching surgery or something like that. IMO, it is stupid and cruel to cut open an animal just to see its heart beating. You can see a heart beating if you observe some surgeries. I love animals (i'm not a member of PETA or a vegan or anything, but I still love animals), and I just an against senesless killing of them. Put it this way, if I were accepted at 2 medical schools, one in the U.S that kills dogs/other similar furry animal in lab and one in the carribean that didn't kill animals, I would chose the carribean.
 
AUC does not use animals in lab expirements. I am a 3rd semester at AUC and have not seen or heard of any such thing occuring.
 
FutureDrCynthia said:
I am considering applying to AUC and was wondering one thing about it before applying. Do they use animals in experiments? I am talking about live animals (like some colleges use dogs in a cardio lab, and they have to be euthanized at the end). Does AUC do that kind of thing? If they do is it optional? I don't want to go to a school where I am forced to experiment on an animal like that. No, I am not one of those huge animal rights activists, I am just against doing things like cutting open a live dog to see its heart beating. Thanks for any info

😱

How on earth did you ever even remotely come up with the idea that this may be happening at AUC (or any other Caribbean school)? Of course this doesn't happen. In fact, show me just one modern physiology lab anywhere that does this simply and only for instructional purposes.

-Skip
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. I am happy to hear that AUC doesn't do those kinds of things.

Skip Intro, I didn't hear that AUC did this. I was wondering whether they did or not. I heard about some schools doing such labs on one of the threads. Its at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=179868 if you want to see about it.
 
FutureDrCynthia said:
Skip Intro, I didn't hear that AUC did this. I was wondering whether they did or not. I heard about some schools doing such labs on one of the threads. Its at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=179868 if you want to see about it.

That is, indeed, an utterly silly thread. However, there is nothing on that thread to suggest that dogs are euthanized for instructional purposes only. Now, if you want to attempt to sleep comfortably in the belief that we live in a world where no animals are killed in the name of science and that the medical profession doesn't endorse this practice....

-Skip
 
Skip Intro said:
That is, indeed, an utterly silly thread. However, there is nothing on that thread to suggest that dogs are euthanized for instructional purposes only. Now, if you want to attempt to sleep comfortably in the belief that we live in a world where no animals are killed in the name of science and that the medical profession doesn't endorse this practice....

-Skip

Someone did mention something on the first page of that thread. They said that "NYMC still does a cardiovascular control lab using dogs that are euthanized at the end. It's not required for students to go, and I'd say that about half the class opted out".

I know that animals are killed in the name of science and everything, and I know it is pretty much necissary in many cases. Its just that I do not want to participate in such experiments. Especially if it involves an animal like a dog or cat. I have disected animals before for anatomy and physiology lab and in biology lab. But it was a fetal pig and a frog, and they were dead when they arrived at the school. That was okay for me since the pigs came from meat places where they slaughered a pig and then found out it was pregnant. Now if they were to do something crazy like pig abortions to get the fetal pigs, I probably would have been against it. I kind of felt bad for the frogs, so I just didn't think about it.
 
FutureDrCynthia said:
Someone did mention something on the first page of that thread. They said that "NYMC still does a cardiovascular control lab using dogs that are euthanized at the end. It's not required for students to go, and I'd say that about half the class opted out".

Well, you can go straight to the source and get the facts yourself:

The Laboratory Animal Complex is registered with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the New York State Department of Health. The university's Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee monitors the animal facility, adhering to NIH recommendations for the care and use of laboratory animals. It is mandatory that the committee approve all animal protocols before experimental work can be initiated. The committee is also responsible for semi-annual review of the animal facility physical plant and for all programs initiated and conducted within the animal facility.

http://www.nymc.edu/resadmin/Biotech/animal_lab.asp

The NIH guidelines can be found here: http://oacu.od.nih.gov/regs/guide/guidex.htm

Again, nowhere on that institutional page does it suggest that they use animals for instructional purposes only. If you have any specific concerns about the validity of the statements made on that other thread, you can email Dr. Levee, the NYMC Animal Lab Director, for clarification.

-Skip
 
Skip Intro said:
Well, you can go straight to the source and get the facts yourself:



http://www.nymc.edu/resadmin/Biotech/animal_lab.asp

The NIH guidelines can be found here: http://oacu.od.nih.gov/regs/guide/guidex.htm

Again, nowhere on that institutional page does it suggest that they use animals for instructional purposes only. If you have any specific concerns about the validity of the statements made on that other thread, you can email Dr. Levee, the NYMC Animal Lab Director, for clarification.

-Skip

The NYMC site mentions cardiovascular experimentation in large animals. The person in the tread I talked about earlier said that there was a cardio lab experiment where dogs were used and then euthanized in the end. I also looked at the NIH site. There it mentioned that if extreme pain or a high level of anxiety in the animal will be present during or after the experiment or procedure, that there should be euthanization available. I wasn't able to read through every word on both sites, but I read what seemed to be the relevent parts. Maybe I will e-mail Dr. Levee and get more info about the subject. Thank you for the information.
 
I think the key is instructional purposes only, which there is no evidence they do and would also clearly be inhumane IMHO. Unfortunately, we do have to occassionally experiment on large animals, even simians, in order to advance science and make human lives better. Whether or not you agree with this becomes an individual, philosophical issue, and it should be your right not to participate and still get a medical education.

-Skip
 
Skip Intro said:
😱

How on earth did you ever even remotely come up with the idea that this may be happening at AUC (or any other Caribbean school)? Of course this doesn't happen. In fact, show me just one modern physiology lab anywhere that does this simply and only for instructional purposes.

-Skip
:scared:
Most U.S. schools were still using dog labs up until the late 90's. LSU New Orleans still uses the labs. Here is an exerpt from a site protesting LSU N.O. dog lab.

"Louisiana State University still uses live animals to teach basic concepts in human physiology, pharmacology, and/or surgery. Two-thirds of all U.S. medical schools, including Harvard, Stanford and Yale, have eliminated these old-fashioned laboratories in favor of modern, cost-effective and humane alternatives."


I have several colleagues at LSU that dread the labs, but this school and many others will not give it up.
Old School thinking I guess.

This is a quote from a student posted on the site.

"This class was useless, we could have watched a video and learned the same thing, instead of wasting a dog's life. At the end of the lab we just dumped the dog into a plastic bag and threw him in the garbage." 👎

Student from Graduating Class, 2006 -- LSU Medical School

Finally, here is a quote from the LA Humane Society on their site

"It's clear that we can't take the pressure off of LSU. Please contact the Dean of LSU Health Sciences Center School of Medicine, in New Orleans. Politely ask him to join top medical schools, in ending dog lab. Request that non-animal alternatives to the labs be used, such as patient simulators, cadavers, computer programs and/or the observation of actual human cardiac bypass surgery."

Go figure. I am not aware of any Carib schools using the dog labs.
 
maleob said:
:scared:
Most U.S. schools were still using dog labs up until the late 90's. LSU New Orleans still uses the labs. Here is an exerpt from a site protesting LSU N.O. dog lab.

"Louisiana State University still uses live animals to teach basic concepts in human physiology, pharmacology, and/or surgery. Two-thirds of all U.S. medical schools, including Harvard, Stanford and Yale, have eliminated these old-fashioned laboratories in favor of modern, cost-effective and humane alternatives."


I have several colleagues at LSU that dread the labs, but this school and many others will not give it up.
Old School thinking I guess.

This is a quote from a student posted on the site.

"This class was useless, we could have watched a video and learned the same thing, instead of wasting a dog's life. At the end of the lab we just dumped the dog into a plastic bag and threw him in the garbage." 👎

Student from Graduating Class, 2006 -- LSU Medical School

Finally, here is a quote from the LA Humane Society on their site

"It's clear that we can't take the pressure off of LSU. Please contact the Dean of LSU Health Sciences Center School of Medicine, in New Orleans. Politely ask him to join top medical schools, in ending dog lab. Request that non-animal alternatives to the labs be used, such as patient simulators, cadavers, computer programs and/or the observation of actual human cardiac bypass surgery."

Go figure. I am not aware of any Carib schools using the dog labs.


Well, if true, I'm shocked to hear that. I'm no PETA activist or anything, but I think the line needs to be drawn somewhere. To me (at least), there is no need to do this anymore simply to teach medicine, which obviously many people can learn without having to undergo this experience, and I'd also be in favor of making video tapes available IF students wanted to watch them (but still wouldn't require them to). There is no quantifiable evidence that such exercises make for better physicians, and this process should be abandoned. Just my opinon.

And, no, this practice still definitely does not happen at Caribbean schools.

-Skip
 
I definately won't be applying to LSU then. I agree that observing heart surgery would be a much better option to doing these labs using live animals. I wouldn't be able to kill a dog, it would be to sad and inhumane 🙁 Still happy to hear Caribbean schools don't do these labs.
 
I wouldn't take anything posted at a PETA or related website at face value. Further, if truthful, the site could be years out of date. If one is truly concerned, go to the source and ask LSU or current students what they do.

-pitman
 
pitman said:
I wouldn't take anything posted at a PETA or related website at face value. Further, if truthful, the site could be years out of date. If one is truly concerned, go to the source and ask LSU or current students what they do.

-pitman
😴 👎
You are correct I wouldn't either. You are a good example of misinformation. Nobody quoted a PETA site. One person stated that he is not a PETA activist.

The quote is from the Humane Society of LA. Most people know this is
a state agency not a radical group like PETA.

The information is up to date(I wonder how I know that?), but you are right that nothing can be
believed on these threads. 😀
 
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