Does being gay count as a URM in medicine?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Members do not see this ad.
KnuxNole said:
LGBT are definitely underrepresented, unless you have a school where more than half the people are LGBT peeps haha

And if that's the case, why didn't I sign up to that school sooner :O
Click to expand...
Maybe so, but I'm uncomfortable with them being placed in the same grouping as African Americans, Hispanic, Native Americans, etc. Might as well add on "Gingers" as another category of URM.
 
WhippleWhileWeWork said:
I'm not sure if you were directing that at me, after I typed it I re-read it and realized it came off in two very different ways. He said "Gay is not a race" and I was trying to quip "Underrepresented is also not a race" but in economy of words I wrote "neither is under presented", sorry.

I do have a question, what is the significance of saying "more than half" at one school in the context of underrepresented ?
Click to expand...

Yeah, when I first read that, I thought the assumption was saying that gay was also not underrepresented, which I initially thought "Wait...that makes no sense!".

The more than half was saying that "well, if there were more than half as LGBT, that would be MUCH greater than the 5-10% that is represented in the U.S."
 
Gregor Wiesmann said:
Maybe so, but I'm uncomfortable with them being placed in the same grouping as African Americans, Hispanic, Native Americans, etc. Might as well add on "Gingers" as another category of URM.
Click to expand...

They aren't in the same group as race.

But as you know, they are still classified as minorities. While they are not technically a "URM", it is still a group of people that

A) still face tons of discrimination, and schools make an effect to state they don't discriminate and welcome them at their school, which is something LGBT applicants look for to make sure the school they go to aren't filled with hateful bigots
B) DO bring diversity to a school, something that people love to have. Maybe it means nothing for some here, but we aren't running medical schools. Other people are.
C) people that have ZERO impact on your ability to get into medical school. Or for any applicant reading this for that matter.
 
Gregor Wiesmann said:
Maybe so, but I'm uncomfortable with them being placed in the same grouping as African Americans, Hispanic, Native Americans, etc. Might as well add on "Gingers" as another category of URM.
Click to expand...

If "gingers" are receiving poor health care because of real or perceived barriers, then yes, they should be next.

There is no nafarious agenda by the AAMC and adcoms to discriminate against ORMs, the fact is some people relate with and are more trusting of people who are like themselves. And because of that, will seek out and receive better health care by those from their own community at large.
 
WhippleWhileWeWork said:
If "gingers" are receiving poor health care because of real or perceived barriers, then yes, they should be next.

There is no nafarious agenda by the AAMC and adcoms to discriminate against ORMs, the fact is some people relate with and are more trusting of people who are like themselves. And because of that, will seek out and receive better health care by those from their own community at large.
Click to expand...
It's hard being a Ginger because people discriminate against you. Therefore, they should be counted as URM. cnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/ginger-abuse-witnessed-discrimination-redhead/story?id=12929946
 
Gregor Wiesmann said:
It's hard being a Ginger because people discriminate against you. Therefore, they should be counted as URM.

cnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/ginger-abuse-witnessed-discrimination-redhead/story?id=12929946
Click to expand...

But are they underrepresented in medical school compared to the regular ginger population?

I don't even know what % of the U.S are redheads.. :shrug:
 
familyaerospace said:
*Must Not Make Comment About Soulless Gingers. Must Not.*
Click to expand...
969740-ginger-kids.jpg
 
Gregor Wiesmann said:
It's hard being a Ginger because people discriminate against you. Therefore, they should be counted as URM. cnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/ginger-abuse-witnessed-discrimination-redhead/story?id=12929946
Click to expand...

Try not to be so obtuse.

You seem to think URM is some webster definition set in stone, it is not, and never has been. It's very inception and flow ever since has been about addressing the needs of people. Which is all any of us in this field should ultimately care about when it comes to the demographics of doctors.
 
Gays certainly bring diversity because their experiences in the medical community are different from those of straight people. Cases in point
  • I get to witness the uncomfortable faces of nurses and doctors when I explain why I don't use birth control. You'd think that outing myself to a medical professional would be a nonissue but you'd be completely wrong...even in the liberal land of Massachusetts.
  • I've had psychiatrist inform me that my sexuality was just a phase.
  • Gays have to scramble for healthcare when they are in states where partnerships aren't recognized by insurance companies, meaning that a heterosexual married couple can be covered but a homosexual married couple who is living in a state where their marriage isn't recognized can't get insurance.
  • Certain doctors view homosexuality as a disease, in spite of the DSM saying the opposite since 1980, and will mistreat their patients. Yes, this actually happens.
  • Until last year, I would have had a completely different experience getting federal grants or loans because my spouse would not be included in the calculation.
  • Gay people have different social and psychological needs. The rates of mental illness are far higher in the gay community, but there aren't a lot of psychiatrists and psychologists who specialize in treating these issues.

We are being beaten up still and killed, depending on where you are in the world. There are still a lot of inequalities. However, we probably shouldn't qualify as URMs because the discrimination is not systemic… Or something. There's no systemic discrimination against a group that more or less didn't exist in public eye until relatively recently.

Also, I think a lot of people are uncomfortable still with homosexuality being an innate characteristic. Since homosexuality is still a fraught, religious topic, people don't want to wade in. Finally, let's face it: how are you going to prove it? You can tell at a glance whether someone is black. Not too much with gay. There are movies made about just this.
 
BrainOnFire said:
Gays certainly bring diversity because their experiences in the medical community are different from those of straight people. Cases in point
  • I get to witness the uncomfortable faces of nurses and doctors when I explain why I don't use birth control. You'd think that outing myself to a medical professional would be a nonissue but you'd be completely wrong...even in the liberal land of Massachusetts.
  • I've had psychiatrist inform me that my sexuality was just a phase.
  • Gays have to scramble for healthcare when they are in states where partnerships aren't recognized by insurance companies, meaning that a heterosexual married couple can be covered but a homosexual married couple who is living in a state where their marriage isn't recognized can't get insurance.
  • Certain doctors view homosexuality as a disease, in spite of the DSM saying the opposite since 1980, and will mistreat their patients. Yes, this actually happens.
  • Until last year, I would have had a completely different experience getting federal grants or loans because my spouse would not be included in the calculation.
  • Gay people have different social and psychological needs. The rates of mental illness are far higher in the gay community, but there aren't a lot of psychiatrists and psychologists who specialize in treating these issues.

We are being beaten up still and killed, depending on where you are in the world. There are still a lot of inequalities. However, we probably shouldn't qualify as URMs because the discrimination is not systemic… Or something. There's no systemic discrimination against a group that more or less didn't exist in public eye until relatively recently.

Also, I think a lot of people are uncomfortable still with homosexuality being an innate characteristic. Since homosexuality is still a fraught, religious topic, people don't want to wade in. Finally, let's face it: how are you going to prove it? You can tell at a glance whether someone is black. Not too much with gay. There are movies made about just this.
Click to expand...

just to clarify people are uncomfortable with homosexuality period. the debate of whether its an innate characteristic is still going in my opinion.
 
medschoolmyname said:
just to clarify people are uncomfortable with homosexuality period. the debate of whether its an innate characteristic is still going in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Precisely. So you have people who truly believe that somewhere in my life, I made the decision to **** myself up religiously, socially, personally, etc. to become gay. It's ridiculous, but there you go. As long as those people exist and have a say in my future, it'll be a choice. Religion's a choice too, folks.
 
BrainOnFire said:
Precisely. So you have people who truly believe that somewhere in my life, I made the decision to **** myself up religiously, socially, personally, etc. to become gay. It's ridiculous, but there you go. As long as those people exist and have a say in my future, it'll be a choice. Religion's a choice too, folks.
Click to expand...

yo brainonfire, just so you know im a person of religious faith, and so I personally believe that a person decides to be hetero/homosexual, i dont believe that someone is natrually born as hetero/homosexual. However, I also believe that decision does not equate to deciding to **** your social, personal, and religious life. In fact, "those people" as you so accurately described, decided that you did that, their ignorance is a result of this. I wish you the best of luck and to everyone else on this thread.
 
medschoolmyname said:
yo brainonfire, just so you know im a person of religious faith, and so I personally believe that a person decides to be hetero/homosexual, i dont believe that someone is natrually born as hetero/homosexual. However, I also believe that decision does not equate to deciding to **** your social, personal, and religious life. In fact, "those people" as you so accurately described, decided that you did that, their ignorance is a result of this. I wish you the best of luck and to everyone else on this thread.
Click to expand...

So am I, except my God is fine with not only my being gay but also my being married to my wife. So whose god wins? Yours or mine? (I'm a Jew, so my god is older and angrier than yours. We had a great book and you STOLE IT!) If a patient has the misfortune to be gay and mentally ill around you, will you counsel that person to be not-gay even though that person is happy being gay and the depression is caused by, say, rampant discrimination by Christians?

But if you're not naturally hetero, go try and have sex with some people of the same gender. Let me know how that works. If I keep talking, I will get banned...

Edit: And if not naturally gay, what causes it? I had a loving father and mother, sibling who was pretty nifty, not sexually abused, got along better with guys than girls but had female friends. I was even RAISED CHRISTIAN! What caused it? Society? I am older than you are; gay wasn't a thing that existed in the public eye.
 
BrainOnFire said:
So am I, except my God is fine with not only my being gay but also my being married to my wife. So whose god wins? Yours or mine? (I'm a Jew, so my god is older and angrier than yours. We had a great book and you STOLE IT!) If a patient has the misfortune to be gay and mentally ill around you, will you counsel that person to be not-gay even though that person is happy being gay and the depression is caused by, say, rampant discrimination by Christians?

But if you're not naturally hetero, go try and have sex with some people of the same gender. Let me know how that works. If I keep talking, I will get banned...

Edit: And if not naturally gay, what causes it? I had a loving father and mother, sibling who was pretty nifty, not sexually abused, got along better with guys than girls but had female friends. I was even RAISED CHRISTIAN! What caused it? Society? I am older than you are; gay wasn't a thing that existed in the public eye.
Click to expand...
I can't answer those questions, I'm just telling you where I'm coming from.
 
There are some very good responses here. From my last (failed) application cycle, I can remember a few schools listing LGBTQ status as a group of interest to them when discussing diversity.

Some of the responses here show exactly why having more LGBTQ people in medicine is needed. I would not want some of you as a doctor when you are unable to empathize with the OP (being dismissive of the LGBTQ experience) and are therefore not able to see the cultural, environmental, and psychological context of an LGBTQ individual's health issues and concerns. What other groups are you also dismissive of?
 
BrainOnFire said:
So am I, except my God is fine with not only my being gay but also my being married to my wife. So whose god wins? Yours or mine? (I'm a Jew, so my god is older and angrier than yours. We had a great book and you STOLE IT!) If a patient has the misfortune to be gay and mentally ill around you, will you counsel that person to be not-gay even though that person is happy being gay and the depression is caused by, say, rampant discrimination by Christians?

But if you're not naturally hetero, go try and have sex with some people of the same gender. Let me know how that works. If I keep talking, I will get banned...

Edit: And if not naturally gay, what causes it? I had a loving father and mother, sibling who was pretty nifty, not sexually abused, got along better with guys than girls but had female friends. I was even RAISED CHRISTIAN! What caused it? Society? I am older than you are; gay wasn't a thing that existed in the public eye.
Click to expand...

Please don't start a Jew v Christian flame war. Unfortunately gays are discriminated against by people of many different religions and faiths. Perhaps it seems like Christians are the issue because they make up the vast majority in our society. For what it's worth, I am Jewish too, and although I have zero issue with Homosexuals, I don't agree with your portrayal of other religions and attempt to portray ours as superior by putting down others. Continue to talk about what we do right, not what you feel others do wrong.
 
Kaputt said:
Not considered URM for being gay, but it definitely is something diverse you can say about yourself.
Click to expand...

one day, people will ask, "is being a straight white kid from Oklahoma who owns a gun a URM?"
 
BrainOnFire said:
  • I get to witness the uncomfortable faces of nurses and doctors when I explain why I don't use birth control. You'd think that outing myself to a medical professional would be a nonissue but you'd be completely wrong...even in the liberal land of Massachusetts.
Click to expand...
Yep, I've definitely been through this one. No, there is absolutely NO CHANCE that I could be pregnant - lol.
 
medschoolmyname said:
I can't answer those questions, I'm just telling you where I'm coming from.
Click to expand...

But as a doctor, you can't just use your religion to say that is 'where I am coming from'. When you are treating an LGBT patient you have to treat them based on the fact that sexuality is innate and not a choice. Your opinion can't trump science. You can't prescribe all the antibiotics you want because you don't believe that bacteria can evolve resistance, either.
 
Homosexuality is a trait that transcends all races, cultures, eras, socio-economic statuses, languages, religious backgrounds, education levels, and just about any other difference in the human experience. It has also been documented in more species than not. But, because you have been conditioned to find it distasteful, it must be a choice for people. I see, that makes perfect sense objectively...
 
Kaputt said:
I am nowhere near being a tumblrina, but I find it hilarious that you think as a straight white person you're being persecuted.
Click to expand...
It was satire!
 
slopes23 said:
Please don't start a Jew v Christian flame war. Unfortunately gays are discriminated against by people of many different religions and faiths. Perhaps it seems like Christians are the issue because they make up the vast majority in our society. For what it's worth, I am Jewish too, and although I have zero issue with Homosexuals, I don't agree with your portrayal of other religions and attempt to portray ours as superior by putting down others. Continue to talk about what we do right, not what you feel others do wrong.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. For a while, the Jewish Kiruv movement (extremely religious Orthodox Jews trying to convert non-religious reform and conservative Jews to Orthodoxy) was trying to work their brainwashing magic on me. I wanted to bring my best gay friend over for Shabbat dinner, and was told not to.

Just like any other religion out there, there are people who don't agree with homosexuality. I have not seen the Orthodox Jews in Chicago go and protest in Boystown (the gayborhood in Chicago) or openly speak about anti-homosexual views, but it's out there. There are extreme people everywhere. There are also people who quietly don't believe in it.

It's not only loud mouthed bigots who discriminate. I'm sure there are many doctors out there who will discriminate, even if they are doing it subconsciously. It's clearly not a simple black and white issue, and no one is immune.
 
Kaputt said:
I am nowhere near being a tumblrina, but I find it hilarious that you think as a straight white person you're being persecuted.
Click to expand...

Straight, white...gun owner. Could be legit, we'll have to wait and see.
 
Planes2Doc said:
Just like any other religion out there, there are people who don't agree with homosexuality. I have not seen the Orthodox Jews in Chicago go and protest in Boystown (the gayborhood in Chicago) or openly speak about anti-homosexual views, but it's out there. There are extreme people everywhere. There are also people who quietly don't believe in it.
Click to expand...

You haven't seen much protests because Judaism is more hate the sin, love the sinner. There are 6 different sexes in the Talmud and the Talmud says you have to respect LGBT people regardless. So they halachically have to keep their mouth quiet else they violate the Talmud. They can hate it in private all they want.

There are also gay Orthodox synagogues in Tel Aviv. I had zero problems as a gay transsexual in Israel. Zero. It was awesome.

Halachically, they also had to accept your friend for Shabbat, gay or not. Provided he was not having sex in the middle of the meal, they had no reason to complain.

In order to get stoned to death under sodomy, the act has to be witnessed by two shomer-mitzvot Orthodox men who are unrelated to either participant. Then they have to go before a beit din. It is actually really hard to bust someone for being gay in Judaism.

As an FYI, you and your BFF are always welcome at my house for Shabbat provided you don't flip my light switches.
 
But yea, if we could avoid the Jew vs Christian thing that would be great.

As a matter of fact if we could reduce the amount of religion in the thread and get back to the original issue, that would be awesome.
 
familyaerospace said:
You haven't seen much protests because Judaism is more hate the sin, love the sinner. There are 6 different sexes in the Talmud and the Talmud says you have to respect LGBT people regardless. So they halachically have to keep their mouth quiet else they violate the Talmud. They can hate it in private all they want.

There are also gay Orthodox synagogues in Tel Aviv. I had zero problems as a gay transsexual in Israel. Zero. It was awesome.

Halachically, they also had to accept your friend for Shabbat, gay or not. Provided he was not having sex in the middle of the meal, they had no reason to complain.

In order to get stoned to death under sodomy, the act has to be witnessed by two shomer-mitzvot Orthodox men who are unrelated to either participant. Then they have to go before a beit din. It is actually really hard to bust someone for being gay in Judaism.

As an FYI, you and your BFF are always welcome at my house for Shabbat provided you don't flip my light switches.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight! This was very interesting. Also to clarify, it wasn't the rabbi and his wife who told me not to bring my friend. I told my former best friend who became ultra-Orthodox thanks to Kiruv about it, and he said something along the lines of: "Planes2doc, how could you consider doing something so disrespectful to them?! You better not bring him."

I obliged. I didn't bring him.

And thanks for the invite to Shabbos. 😉
 
I'm sure the LGBT community are minorities everywhere except the LGBT community of course, but I don't think you are classified under the AMCAS "definition" of URM. Regardless you have a great and I'm sure interesting back story. Just convey it in a tasteful and appropriate way and I'm sure you'll be weighed heavily s an applicant. Assuming numbers are good.
 
Planes2Doc said:
Thanks for the insight! This was very interesting. Also to clarify, it wasn't the rabbi and his wife who told me not to bring my friend. I told my former best friend who became ultra-Orthodox thanks to Kiruv about it, and he said something along the lines of: "Planes2doc, how could you consider doing something so disrespectful to them?! You better not bring him."

I obliged. I didn't bring him.

And thanks for the invite to Shabbos. 😉
Click to expand...

He is violating halacha probably because he doesn't KNOW halacha. 😉

10 to 1, the rabbi would have been ok with your gay friend.

Any time, I know lots of Orthodox Jews who wouldn't care who you brought.
 
familyaerospace said:
I've taken it more than once. It expires on me in July.

My feedback

Round 1 - school 1 don't be trans we need a balanced class

Round 2 - school 2 we can't accept people who are out even if they aren't going to tell the patients, school 3 because you are LGBT you can't work with straight people, also learn German (WL)

Round 3 - school 4 we can't accept Jews, school 2/interview 2 was told no deficiencies in the application (WL), school 5 I am actually scared to ask them, school 3/interview 2 waiting to hear back (WL).

I am preparing for round fricken four while I sit on two waitlists. I am going to submit next week as I am rewriting everything as I was told only a few days ago that I can afford to apply to two or three schools this round so I am going to apply to the two schools where I was waitlisted, then start studying and preparing to retake the new MCAT and apply for round 5.
Click to expand...

What school says 'we can't accept Jews' ? Feel free to PM me the answer if you don't feel like broadcasting the name of the institution publicly.

-aMD
 
Planes2Doc said:
I agree with this. For a while, the Jewish Kiruv movement (extremely religious Orthodox Jews trying to convert non-religious reform and conservative Jews to Orthodoxy) was trying to work their brainwashing magic on me. I wanted to bring my best gay friend over for Shabbat dinner, and was told not to.

Just like any other religion out there, there are people who don't agree with homosexuality. I have not seen the Orthodox Jews in Chicago go and protest in Boystown (the gayborhood in Chicago) or openly speak about anti-homosexual views, but it's out there. There are extreme people everywhere. There are also people who quietly don't believe in it.

It's not only loud mouthed bigots who discriminate. I'm sure there are many doctors out there who will discriminate, even if they are doing it subconsciously. It's clearly not a simple black and white issue, and no one is immune.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm Conservative and sometimes I feel like I could No True Scotsman away the guys who are harassing little girls about their dress length. They exist and I need to deal with it. Anyway, I'm glad this has been mostly informative and I'm sorry for derailing it into my views on those people.
 
LMBLBM said:
NO. A homosexual person should not receive special treatment, and a heterosexual person should not receive special treatment
Click to expand...

Unfortunately heterosexual individuals are already given 'special treatment' by society. Ignoring that privilege does not make it go away...
 
In this day and age, HIV=gay? How scientific is that? If you want to link the two, make sure you do it in an extremely, extremely tasteful way. Sometimes it is easy to forget we are sending our applications to scientist, first and foremost.
 
Kaputt said:
I didn't know there were 12 year olds in Pre-Allo
Click to expand...
How did you come to this absurd conclusion? Look at the post I replied to genius. He said he actually wants to "locate" his practice in a gay community. I've heard of the term used just as defining a group of people, but I've never actually been to an actual "town" made up of gay people.
 
PreciousHamburgers said:
But as a doctor, you can't just use your religion to say that is 'where I am coming from'. When you are treating an LGBT patient you have to treat them based on the fact that sexuality is innate and not a choice. Your opinion can't trump science. You can't prescribe all the antibiotics you want because you don't believe that bacteria can evolve resistance, either.
Click to expand...
Don't just claim that sexuality is "innate". Lots of people would beg to differ.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
Does this count as clinical?
Replies
4
Views
815
asterok
A
I
  • Locked
Does this count as research?
Replies
9
Views
1K
AsclepiusAdvisingLLC
AsclepiusAdvisingLLC
M
Does TAing count as nonclinical volunteering?
Replies
5
Views
805
GoSpursGo
GoSpursGo
pinkbowbunny
Does letter packet count as one LOR?
Replies
2
Views
565
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
O
Does clinical volunteering count as clinical hours?
Replies
4
Views
1K
Goro
Goro
Top