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does EM make more then GAS?
- Thread starter randommedstu
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Sometimes. Like anything depends how much you want to work. I wouldn't base a career on salary survey data though.
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Those numbers for EM seem pretty accurate. Hr for hr EM rakes in the $$, their overall compensation is lower than some of the other specialties b/c they only work 35-40hrs/week w/yearly salaries in the 225-275k range. The flip side to that is that you will work nights and weekends for the rest of your life and it's a very stressful job w/a high burnout rate
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Used to have a high burnout rate, when it wasn't EM-trained people. If you're an anesthesiologist or surgeon not in the OR or unit, or an IM doc running trauma, the fit isn't exact, and that is what wears on you. Likewise, working 12 hours straight hard is different from a 24 hour shift of wax and wane, or M-F 8-5.
Attrition is MUCH less now that there's been a gradual influx of EM-trained people (and the practice-track people are already burned out, or are retiring).
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EM is a great field, in chicago most ER docs start in the 270k range for working 12 12 hour shifts a month, and most partners net 325 +. in northwest indiana and wisconsin those numbers are closer to 400 - pretty much the same money as anesthesia, not more though. they definitely work less hours than anesthesia for those numbers - however those hours are not pleasant. it's the ultimate 'shift job', clock in, clock out.
the burnout rate is something more common in the docs that want to work 20 12 hour shifts a month to make tons of $$ - for those who stick to a schedule of 12 12's a month or 15 10's a month, the burnout is probably the same as it is in any other field....i mean, with 15-18 days off every month, there's plenty of time to recover from being burnt out.
it's getting more competitive to match EM, this past year the step 1 scores were higher than anesthesia. 3 years to 300k is a pretty enticing option for med students buried in loans. ( and they don't have to worry about crna's either...most nurses don't want an ER physicians job)
all in all, not a bad field, and i'd say it's the safest from a salary cut when the health reform comes, many peeps who come into the ER lack insurance or end up not paying anyways - the salaries are adjusted for this.
definitely something i thought about for a while, but it's hard to have passion for shift work. just my .02
the burnout rate is something more common in the docs that want to work 20 12 hour shifts a month to make tons of $$ - for those who stick to a schedule of 12 12's a month or 15 10's a month, the burnout is probably the same as it is in any other field....i mean, with 15-18 days off every month, there's plenty of time to recover from being burnt out.
it's getting more competitive to match EM, this past year the step 1 scores were higher than anesthesia. 3 years to 300k is a pretty enticing option for med students buried in loans. ( and they don't have to worry about crna's either...most nurses don't want an ER physicians job)
all in all, not a bad field, and i'd say it's the safest from a salary cut when the health reform comes, many peeps who come into the ER lack insurance or end up not paying anyways - the salaries are adjusted for this.
definitely something i thought about for a while, but it's hard to have passion for shift work. just my .02
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Just finished my EM rotation as part of my internship and it was a good experience. Most of the ER doc's I worked with were so-so happy. the hours, stress, turnover demands from administration, continual changing schedule and trash patients were challenging, to say the least. Plus there's the never ending risk that you take on every single patient in deciding to admit vs discharge. You decide the risk is too great - then you have to deal with the FMG hospitalist who is gonna give ya crap for 2O mins on the phone about it. On the older doc's, you could see the wear and tear. The younger ones, seemed pretty burned out wayyyyy to early (some less than 2 yrs out).
They make good money here on the east coast, similar to what's posted above.
If I had a dime for everytime an attending, ER resident, or mid-level told me 'good decision on going Anesthesia' I'd made some cash over the month.
ER is a great choice, IMHO, over FM - Peds - IM that allows you flexibility to have some days off, little call/less paperwork, do your job-go home mentality. But, a lot find out that those 8, 10, 12 hour shifts (that usually went 1-2 hours longer 'cleaning up') aren't for the weak and over time can beat you down. Anesthesia ain't perfect, but I'll take it.
This is just me talking...
They make good money here on the east coast, similar to what's posted above.
If I had a dime for everytime an attending, ER resident, or mid-level told me 'good decision on going Anesthesia' I'd made some cash over the month.
ER is a great choice, IMHO, over FM - Peds - IM that allows you flexibility to have some days off, little call/less paperwork, do your job-go home mentality. But, a lot find out that those 8, 10, 12 hour shifts (that usually went 1-2 hours longer 'cleaning up') aren't for the weak and over time can beat you down. Anesthesia ain't perfect, but I'll take it.
This is just me talking...
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i hear ya,. but i work nights and weekends too.. and when i work nights usually.... i also worked the whole day as well... and i also work weekends.. I think they er docs make a lot more money then we do hour for hour as someone said earlier.. I think the hospitalist job might be a decent job in the future when the field becomes more mature. 7 days on and 7 days off.. whats wrong with that.. And you dont have to deal with being in the ER.
Hm... I would not work in the ER even for 5 or more millions. Working night shifts( 5 or more in a row) for the rest of your life... it's pure horror - there are no money on Earth worth it. IMHO.
Why even is it considered life-style specialty? 😕
Why even is it considered life-style specialty? 😕
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I agree completely. When you compare ROAD specialties, Anesthesia is easily the worst hours and not comparable to the others. In Anesthesia, you'll work nights, weekends, holidays too...but so does most other specialties too. I'll take the Anesthesia schedule vs the ER craziness schedule any day. At the end of my ER rotations, I've never known if I was coming or going...
The hospitalist gig is nice, but that 7 days on (7 days are typically day 7a-7p) that are nights (7p-7a) isn't cake. And you do deal with the ER, you usually spend 70-80% of shift in the ER 'admitting.' Remember H&P's from med school and Admit orders, that is what hospitalist do on their days 'on.' No thanks. Although I don't recall any hospitalist telling me that they should have done Anesthesia, I do remember many of them hating life after the ER hit them with their 10, 11th, 12th admit in a row.
The hospitalist gig is nice, but that 7 days on (7 days are typically day 7a-7p) that are nights (7p-7a) isn't cake. And you do deal with the ER, you usually spend 70-80% of shift in the ER 'admitting.' Remember H&P's from med school and Admit orders, that is what hospitalist do on their days 'on.' No thanks. Although I don't recall any hospitalist telling me that they should have done Anesthesia, I do remember many of them hating life after the ER hit them with their 10, 11th, 12th admit in a row.
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NO money? I said that there was one place you couldn't pay me enough to work, but, then, I reflected, and, yes, I do believe that there is a price for which anyone could be bought. However, that price is astronomical in some cases.
I mean, to be crass, what if someone said they would pay you $5million for some random guy to screw you in the ass, bareback? What about $10million? That's what I mean. Someone might say $100million, so there is a price, but it's astronomical.
Nope. No money is worth it.
Dude, I am an old owl. Money is not so glittering for me 😉
p.s. I am not arguing the axiom of the price bargain - theoretically there is always a price one could be bought for. But it is not money per se. For me.
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One of my medical school attendings who was roughly late 40's/early 50's use to tell us that every ER shift at their age was like drinking a case of nasty beer and smoking a carton of cigaretes. Not for me, no thanks.
I have significant debt and would consider the above offers for 5-10 million. For more, I'd hire a video person just for giggles.
I have significant debt and would consider the above offers for 5-10 million. For more, I'd hire a video person just for giggles.
D
deleted50478
then 
1.at that time 2.immediately or soon afterward 3.next in order of time 4.at the same time 5.next in order of place 6.in addition 7.in that case 8.since that is so; as it appears; therefore 9.being; being such; existing or being at the time indicated 10.that time
than 
1.(used, as after comparative adjectives and adverbs, to introduce the second member of an unequal comparison): She's taller than I am.
2.(used after some adverbs and adjectives expressing choice or diversity, such as other, otherwise, else, anywhere, or different, to introduce an alternative or denote a difference in kind, place, style, identity, etc.): I had no choice other than that. You won't find such freedom anywhere else than in this country.
3.(used to introduce the rejected choice in expressions of preference): I'd rather walk than drive there.
4.except; other than: We had no choice than to return home.
5.when: We had barely arrived than we had to leave again.
preposition
6.in relation to; by comparison with (usually fol. by a pronoun in the objective case):
1.at that time 2.immediately or soon afterward 3.next in order of time 4.at the same time 5.next in order of place 6.in addition 7.in that case 8.since that is so; as it appears; therefore 9.being; being such; existing or being at the time indicated 10.that time
than 
1.(used, as after comparative adjectives and adverbs, to introduce the second member of an unequal comparison): She's taller than I am.
2.(used after some adverbs and adjectives expressing choice or diversity, such as other, otherwise, else, anywhere, or different, to introduce an alternative or denote a difference in kind, place, style, identity, etc.): I had no choice other than that. You won't find such freedom anywhere else than in this country.
3.(used to introduce the rejected choice in expressions of preference): I'd rather walk than drive there.
4.except; other than: We had no choice than to return home.
5.when: We had barely arrived than we had to leave again.
preposition
6.in relation to; by comparison with (usually fol. by a pronoun in the objective case):
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The OP misused "then" in his title. He has corrected it.
The misuse of then/than is one of my pet peeves as well, then again, I would not normally correct someone's post.😀
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Don't forget that an hr in the er is tougher than an hr doing anesthesia. The constant nature of moving patients, arguing w/other specialties, multiple medical issues, multiple patients at one time who may or may not respect you and are sometimes outright rude. Sometimes we even get to sleep when on a 24 hr call, I can assure you that EM docs don't sleep on their overnight shifts. One of the things I love about our field is that no matter how rude or awful a patient is you know that you only have to talk to them for a few mins before its off the lala land. I'm not trying to say that our specialty is easier or harder, just different.
My g/f is an er doc and after hearing her stories I have zero interest in her job, it's a good thing she feels the same way about mine
