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Does it help to tell program they are number 2?

hello23

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    quick q. does it help at all to tell PD that they are my number 2...my thinking is that instead of telling them nebulously "I am considering your program very highly", would it not better if I tell them explicitly I am ranking them #2? as we all know, many people like 70+% matched at top 3...so I think PD know that if they are ranked #2, they will also have extremely high chance of matching us...

    I love to hear all people's opinion about this...thanks.
     

    bof

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      it doesn't help anymore than telling them you are ranking them "highly". if it isn't number 1, then everything else is basically the same.

      hello23 said:
      quick q. does it help at all to tell PD that they are my number 2...my thinking is that instead of telling them nebulously "I am considering your program very highly", would it not better if I tell them explicitly I am ranking them #2? as we all know, many people like 70+% matched at top 3...so I think PD know that if they are ranked #2, they will also have extremely high chance of matching us...

      I love to hear all people's opinion about this...thanks.
       
      B

      b&ierstiefel

        bof said:
        it doesn't help anymore than telling them you are ranking them "highly". if it isn't number 1, then everything else is basically the same.
        programs get two types of correspondences from applicants:

        (1) - you guys are the bomb and i'm ranking you #1
        (2) - not (1) and everything else

        Telling them that they're #2 falls under category (2).

        I heard these correspondences don't matter much. It's not like somebody at the bottom of a rank list is suddenly gonna go up to the top tier just because he/she said, "you're my #1; I love you guys."
         
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        germanIMG

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          if you like a program there are ways to let them know...
          If you plan to rank them as your #1, fine you can also let them know this....
          to continue down your list and telll every program how you are planning to rank them is pointless. As posted before, the effect of this post-interview communication is marginal at best. For the PDs, there might be a benefit to know who is going to rank them highly, and they have their criterias to take an educated guess. So if you let them know you like them, and also make a point of why....they might consider this when it comes to rank you and it may bump you up a few spots ore so.
          The way I understand it though is, that at the time you interview, programs already have divided the interviewees in three stacks.
          Top candidates, good candidates and rest.
          So you might move up a bit in your respective tier... but the main descision has been made a long time before you set food into their institution.
          Also, the chances are stronly in favor of you matching at your #1.... at the top institutions maybe 40%, at 2nd tier institutions more like 70-80%...just by the rank/match ratio that every program has.
           

          ncstudentdoc

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            Also, the chances are stronly in favor of you matching at your #1.... at the top institutions maybe 40%, at 2nd tier institutions more like 70-80%...just by the rank/match ratio that every program has.[/QUOTE]


            How are you defining top-tier vs. 2nd? I mean a top-20 vs second-20 or more elite than that, like a clear top 5 program vs. one of several that would be in the big pool from 5-25ish.

            The reason I ask is, well, it would be nice to relax a little and think I have a chance of going to my #1, which will not be a clear top 5 nationally. I am also curious how you got the numbers above.

            Thanks!
             

            Scrubbs

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              germanIMG said:
              The way I understand it though is, that at the time you interview, programs already have divided the interviewees in three stacks.
              Top candidates, good candidates and rest.
              So you might move up a bit in your respective tier... but the main descision has been made a long time before you set food into their institution.

              This is really dependent on specialty and program. For Emergency Medicine, most places view an interview as saying that you are academically qualified to be in the residency. We use the interview to determine who we want to work with for three years - and who we don't.

              Post interview communication doesn't mean a whole lot, but some places like it. I agree with the others though... I wouldn't tell someone you're ranking them #2. In the top 3 or highly sounds better. We all know what it means...
               

              germanIMG

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                ncstudentdoc said:
                Also, the chances are stronly in favor of you matching at your #1.... at the top institutions maybe 40%, at 2nd tier institutions more like 70-80%...just by the rank/match ratio that every program has.


                How are you defining top-tier vs. 2nd? I mean a top-20 vs second-20 or more elite than that, like a clear top 5 program vs. one of several that would be in the big pool from 5-25ish.

                The reason I ask is, well, it would be nice to relax a little and think I have a chance of going to my #1, which will not be a clear top 5 nationally. I am also curious how you got the numbers above.

                Thanks![/QUOTE]

                first, i forgot to clarify this: everything I say is for IM....this might very well be completely different in more competitive specialties.....



                Ok here is what I know.....Brigham Women/MGH/Duke 4:1....BU/Tufts/ Monte 7-8:1 ratio..

                about every program, except for the very competitive ones, has a 10:1 ratio for invitations to spots.


                of course these ratios depend greatly on the applicant pool.
                For example BU certainly does draw some very competitive candidates, but they most likely are ranking BWH or MGH higher then BU....thus a pretty high rank/match ratio.

                This could be very different for a less competitive program like Jefferson or UMDNJ RWJ, where the pool of applicants may not be as competitive, thus less options and more people are going to rank the program higher.....

                but in general 4:1 is considered to be very tight and very few programs get away with this kind of ratio
                 

                hans19

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                  hello23 said:
                  quick q. does it help at all to tell PD that they are my number 2...my thinking is that instead of telling them nebulously "I am considering your program very highly", would it not better if I tell them explicitly I am ranking them #2? as we all know, many people like 70+% matched at top 3...so I think PD know that if they are ranked #2, they will also have extremely high chance of matching us...

                  I love to hear all people's opinion about this...thanks.

                  Thats a terrible idea.

                  That would be like telling your significant other that he/she's #2 in your life. IE There's someone else that you'd rather be with, or if a more attractive person comes along, you'll bolt. (Which might be the case-- but your S.O. doesn't need to know that, right?) Its better to tell your S.O. you like them a lot, and just leave at that.

                  The same thing applies to ranking residencies.
                  Besides, 2nd place is first last... ;)

                  Best of luck
                   

                  roja

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                    Having interviewed on several occasions (and monday being the last time this year, thankfully!), I can tell you that these correspondences have little effect on a PD rank list.

                    telling them you are ranking them #1 (when true) is fine. It probably won't hurt. Telling them your entire rank list, not so helpful.

                    Just tell them why you liked thier program and that you intend to rank them very highly. That's fine. Most of these letters get dumped in a file and really not even read.

                    Our PD (and other interviewers) gauge someone's interest based on the interview. PD's rarely have the time to determine how they are going to rank someone based on how they think the interviewee ranks the program. Trust me, there are enough variables to consider without trying to be psychic.
                     

                    hello23

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                      hans19 said:
                      Thats a terrible idea.

                      That would be like telling your significant other that he/she's #2 in your life. IE There's someone else that you'd rather be with, or if a more attractive person comes along, you'll bolt. (Which might be the case-- but your S.O. doesn't need to know that, right?) Its better to tell your S.O. you like them a lot, and just leave at that.

                      The same thing applies to ranking residencies.
                      Besides, 2nd place is first last... ;)

                      Best of luck

                      so true....so true...now I even feel stupid asking the question! How could you ever tell your wife that your ex-girlfriend is better in bed...?
                       

                      Winged Scapula

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                        hans19 has it correct. I've often been fond of comparing the process to dating as well.

                        Your answer is either to tell a program they're:

                        a) your first choice;

                        b) being considered seriously and will rank highly;

                        or

                        c) showed you some impressive aspects (be specific, if you can find something) and you will give them strong consideration come rank order list day (essentially, don't call me, I'll call you).

                        I can see no reason why a program would want to know they're number two on your list - we know we will be, but don't tell us. We'd rather not know!
                         
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