Does it matter which school?

[Dr Dazzle]

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I have been reading a few threads which seem to always be ranking DO schools.

Does it really matter which one you attend at the end of the day?

 

[LaughingMan]

I have been reading a few threads which seem to always be ranking DO schools.

Does it really matter which one you attend at the end of the day?

Hey Dr. Dazzle (Dota Reference?)

It matters slighty--in the sense that some schools allow you to have more audition rotations so you can try to rotate in specialities you'd be interested in.

Aside from that, geography, costs, and curriculum schedules are to note.

Hopefully a more knowledgeable individual can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[sylvanthus]

It doesn't bloody matter. Go to the cheapest school.

 

[survivordo]

The older schools have established a reputation, however, in the end, it probably doesn't really matter in terms of getting a residency. What WILL matter is that you go where you will be HAPPY. Med school can suck at times, it makes it a lot easier if you are near friends/family/enjoyable recreation.

Survivor DO

 

[cliquesh]

Looking at different schools' match lists, I don't think it matters which school you attend in terms of matching a decent residency. I do think, however, your clinical education will be better at the older DO schools, as well as the state DO schools.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I have been reading a few threads which seem to always be ranking DO schools.

Does it really matter which one you attend at the end of the day?

Not really. All this fuss about prestige and school reputation and getting a residency blah blah blah really doesn't matter in the end.

I very rarely am asked where I went to medical school and never where I went to residency by patients. What matters is the patient's perception about how much you listen, how much you care, and your attention to their loved one. If you have a good reputation, you will have a good thriving practice.

 

[HalfListic]

It doesn't bloody matter. Go to the cheapest school.

...? I wouldn't expect this answer from you. Don't you usually have a message slightly more...diametrically opposite??



For my answer to the question...I'd say that you can go to any med school and do just fine. So, if you get in somewhere...pop open the champagne and celebrate the fact that you will be a doctor someday.

Having said that, if you do end up with a choice of schools, then you do have to choose. I'm a very logical person, but in the end, I found that choosing a school ultimately had more to do with intuition than research. Find the school you feel inspired by, and at home. Thats what I suggest.

 

[abolt18]

...? I wouldn't expect this answer from you. Don't you usually have a message slightly more...diametrically opposite??



For my answer to the question...I'd say that you can go to any med school and do just fine. So, if you get in somewhere...pop open the champagne and celebrate the fact that you will be a doctor someday.

Having said that, if you do end up with a choice of schools, then you do have to choose. I'm a very logical person, but in the end, I found that choosing a school ultimately had more to do with intuition than research. Find the school you feel inspired by, and at home. Thats what I suggest.

Have you decided yet?

 

[Dr Dazzle]

...? I wouldn't expect this answer from you. Don't you usually have a message slightly more...diametrically opposite??



For my answer to the question...I'd say that you can go to any med school and do just fine. So, if you get in somewhere...pop open the champagne and celebrate the fact that you will be a doctor someday.

Having said that, if you do end up with a choice of schools, then you do have to choose. I'm a very logical person, but in the end, I found that choosing a school ultimately had more to do with intuition than research. Find the school you feel inspired by, and at home. Thats what I suggest.

Sounds good. However, I don't know if there is too much to celebrate, considering you will be sacrificing the next decade of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Talking to current physicians doesn't make the opportunity seem too appealing haha.

 

[coolingglasses]

Sounds good. However, I don't know if there is too much to celebrate, considering you will be sacrificing the next decade of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Talking to current physicians doesn't make the opportunity seem too appealing haha.

Always celebrate making it to the next level.

 

[rkmoto121]

Hey Dr. Dazzle (Dota Reference?)

It matters slighty--in the sense that some schools allow you to have more audition rotations so you can try to rotate in specialities you'd be interested in.

Aside from that, geography, costs, and curriculum schedules are to note.

Hopefully a more knowledgeable individual can correct me if I'm wrong.

I always see people saying to go to a school that allow a lot of audition rotations. So why wouldn't a school allow audition rotations? If everybody wants them and they are so important for getting a residency, shouldn't the school want to allow unlimited auditions in fourth year?

 

[Dr Dazzle]

I always see people saying to go to a school that allow a lot of audition rotations. So why wouldn't a school allow audition rotations? If everybody wants them and they are so important for getting a residency, shouldn't the school want to allow unlimited auditions in fourth year?

What are the schools which limit audition rotations? I feel that many applicants never consider this as a factor.

As far as costs, it ranges from 30K to 50k for most schools and the average is 40K. So in the long run, that too doesn't seem to be a big enough factor. All med students will have debt. Some will pay it off a couple years earlier depending on the field and debt level.

 

[as1212559]

...? I wouldn't expect this answer from you. Don't you usually have a message slightly more...diametrically opposite??

Seeing as how he went to a new DO school and still managed to bag an acgme EM/IM residency (which I'm pretty sure there aren't many of), I think he is a perfect representation of the fact that your school doesn't matter nearly as much as you do.

 

[hallowmann]

Seeing as how he went to a new DO school and still managed to bag an acgme EM/IM residency (which I'm pretty sure there aren't many of), I think he is a perfect representation of the fact that your school doesn't matter nearly as much as you do.

Add to it that he has generally been quick to point out the bad aspects of his school, its an even stronger demonstration that how well you do is more dependent on you than the school.

 

[ShyRem]

The only thing that matters is going to a school that is a good fit for you. With a good fit, you'll get the opportunity to study and do well on boards. Doesn't matter where the school is or how old it is. What matters is your board scores, your LORs (yes, you'll have more of those), your personal statements (thought you were done with those did ya?), and doing well on audition rotations if you so choose. Plenty of folks match to places they never did an audition rotation (including me).

 

[Jas1360]

What are the schools which limit audition rotations? I feel that many applicants never consider this as a factor.

As far as costs, it ranges from 30K to 50k for most schools and the average is 40K. So in the long run, that too doesn't seem to be a big enough factor. All med students will have debt. Some will pay it off a couple years earlier depending on the field and debt level.

Unfortunately, one of the schools I really liked and happen to be on the wait list has a tuition of almost 79,000 a year and the school I am accepted at is about 46,000 per year. So that is a huge difference. I'm trying to figure out if there is a good enough reason to fork out all that extra money if I manage to get off the wait list.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Unfortunately, one of the schools I really liked and happen to be on the wait list has a tuition of almost 79,000 a year and the school I am accepted at is about 46,000 per year. So that is a huge difference. I'm trying to figure out if there is a good enough reason to fork out all that extra money if I manage to get off the wait list.

Ahhh the old MSU consideration. In my opinion, the obvious answer is no...not worth it. To each their own though.

 

[Jas1360]

Ahhh the old MSU consideration. In my opinion, the obvious answer is no...not worth it. To each their own though.

I think it would be an easy no for me too, except I have one parent in the state, a grand parent, and 20-50 aunts, uncles, and cousins. So I guess you could say we'd have an exceptionally strong support system in MI.

But we'd also have family and friends at the other location too.

So maybe I should just hope I don't make it off the wait list so I get the easy choice. 🙂

 

[GUH]

I think it would be an easy no for me too, except I have one parent in the state, a grand parent, and 20-50 aunts, uncles, and cousins. So I guess you could say we'd have an exceptionally strong support system in MI.

But we'd also have family and friends at the other location too.

So maybe I should just hope I don't make it off the wait list so I get the easy choice. 🙂

A few grand a year to go to the best fit school is one thing. Over 120 grand is a huge difference though... I would be very surprised if you ultimately chose MSU.

 

[abolt18]

A few grand a year to go to the best fit school is one thing. Over 120 grand is a huge difference though... I would be very surprised if you ultimately chose MSU.

Agreed! You would pay 120K just to be closer to family for a few years? No way! I move to another freaking country if I had to to save that much money and avoid that much debt! Seriously this should very much be a no-brainer in my opinion. I think 120K is worth spending a few years away from people that you can visit over thanksgiving, christmas, and summer breaks. Besides, I imagine you'll be so busy studying you won't have a ton of time to see them anyway except on school breaks.

 

[Goro]

To tell you the truth, I think you'll get a decent education at any of them.

Some are more OMT-intensive

Some have better betetr board scores (but not by much)

Key thing is to find the right fit.

I have been reading a few threads which seem to always be ranking DO schools.

Does it really matter which one you attend at the end of the day?

 

[hallowmann]

To tell you the truth, I think you'll get a decent education at any of them.

Some are more OMT-intensive

Some have better betetr board scores (but not by much)

Key thing is to find the right fit.

Which do you know are more OMT intensive? Does that mean more OMT hours? Just curious. Obviously this would be a big consideration for anyone that loves OMT (as well as probably those who hate it).

 

[DolFAN]

In my humble opinion, no. However I'm still only an MS-0

 

[Dr Dazzle]

Agreed! You would pay 120K just to be closer to family for a few years? No way! I move to another freaking country if I had to to save that much money and avoid that much debt! Seriously this should very much be a no-brainer in my opinion. I think 120K is worth spending a few years away from people that you can visit over thanksgiving, christmas, and summer breaks. Besides, I imagine you'll be so busy studying you won't have a ton of time to see them anyway except on school breaks.

What if that's the only acceptance you have? To pay a very high tuition this year (120K difference) versus taking a year off to get into a cheaper instate school? Lets assume you are confident about the instate school next year. What do you say then?

 

[GUH]

Think about difference between your annual income now and an estimate of your annual income in your final year working as a physician. If it is greater than 120k (or whatever the difference is in total cost of attendance over four years between MSU and your in-state school), and assuming the schools you are considering are of equal quality, then your lifetime earnings will be higher if you go to MSU.

Again, that is assuming that you have a 100% chance of getting into your in-state school next year.

 

[Dr Dazzle]

Think about difference between your annual income now and an estimate of your annual income in your final year working as a physician. If it is greater than 120k (or whatever the difference is in total cost of attendance over four years between MSU and your in-state school), and assuming the schools you are considering are of equal quality, then your lifetime earnings will be higher if you go to MSU.

Again, that is assuming that you have a 100% chance of getting into your in-state school next year.

That's reasonable. Overall, convincing enough to take the acceptance and run with it. After all, this admissions game is a crapshoot, and there is no 100% guarantee. You might as well start your career.

 

[abolt18]

Think about difference between your annual income now and an estimate of your annual income in your final year working as a physician. If it is greater than 120k (or whatever the difference is in total cost of attendance over four years between MSU and your in-state school), and assuming the schools you are considering are of equal quality, then your lifetime earnings will be higher if you go to MSU.

Again, that is assuming that you have a 100% chance of getting into your in-state school next year.

+1 If it was my only acceptance I'd run with it. If not, I'd say peace out and save myself a ton of money!

 

[hallowmann]

+1 If it was my only acceptance I'd run with it. If not, I'd say peace out and save myself a ton of money!

Exactly. MSUCOM is also a great school. There's no point in losing a year just to save the 120k.

 

[DavetheMD]

What if that's the only acceptance you have? To pay a very high tuition this year (120K difference) versus taking a year off to get into a cheaper instate school? Lets assume you are confident about the instate school next year. What do you say then?

I'm not sure I see the conundrum. Why would you apply to a school you had no intentions of matriculating to? Most people would take the acceptance.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I'm not sure I see the conundrum. Why would you apply to a school you had no intentions of matriculating to? Most people would take the acceptance.

Good question. Thing is, a lot of jack-assy people apply to medical school.

 

[Dr Dazzle]

Good question. Thing is, a lot of jack-assy people apply to medical school.

Are you implying something? lol...I was simply looking at the various possibilities and costs associated. Of course there are pros and cons to selecting schools unique to each applicant. Especially if you get more than one acceptance.

 

[docnotsopc]

Not sure why some people think you will get a decent education at any of the DO schools. This is far from the truth. SDN loves to claim "its up to the individual". Yes this is true to a degree, but why put yourself through more hurdles than you already have.

1) Pre-clinical curriculum: This matters because how well your school teaches (and efficiently) determines to a degree how much you have to catch up (or hopefully not catch up) when board studying time comes around. If you go to a school with poor professors who didnt teach you core concepts the first time, its more of a struggle to get caught up.

For example: I had a very good renal professor who was board relevant and was able to take complicated concepts and make it much simpler. I started board studying recently and Renal has been one of my best subjects on practice questions because I had a solid foundation. However, I had horrible Psych, Neuro, and Repro professors so I have had problems re-learning these topics because I was never taught it properly in the first place. A lot of my classmates feel the same way about these subjects to a degree.

2) Rotation Sites AND Rotation subjects: Some schools make you do OMM rotations in 3rd year and some do not. Some schools have Emergency Medicine as a 3rd year rotation, and some do not. Look at the number of electives offered too in 3rd year. Ask yourself: Are you REALLY going to a D.O. school to focus on OMM and are you really going to use it in the fields you want to go into (assuming you think you know what you want to do before school starts). If you are interested in EM, you may want to lean towards a school that offers a 3rd year rotation. Look at Touro-NY as an example and their strong match history into EM. Next, what is the QUALITY of the schools rotation sites. Also, Hint: at every interview every school will claim they have solid rotations....and talking to older students while interviewing will yield a useless bias (obviously any med student taking the time to tour or interview pre-meds loves the school and may not represent the average student). For example, my school apparently has "good" rotation sites according to some on SDN yet we have numerous sites where students see 4-5 patients per week split between several students. Are you really going to learn a lot like that?

You will not receive a solid education at every DO school. Some schools offer an OK education, some bad, and some great. Dont be foolish to think they are all the same with tuition and location taken out of the equation. In the long run it might not make a difference (every school has amazing students), but when you go to study for those board exams (which can open or close a lot of doors) you will want a solid background......and when you go to get those reference letters during your Sub-Is in 4th year, you are going to want a solid 3rd year rotation experience

Edit: Of course if you want to go into the traditionally "less competitive" fields, this matters much less

 

[HalfListic]

Have you decided yet?

hey, didnt see this til now. But, I have decided to go to MUCOM...super excited 😀

👍

 

[HalfListic]

The only thing that matters is going to a school that is a good fit for you. With a good fit, you'll get the opportunity to study and do well on boards. Doesn't matter where the school is or how old it is. What matters is your board scores, your LORs (yes, you'll have more of those), your personal statements (thought you were done with those did ya?), and doing well on audition rotations if you so choose. Plenty of folks match to places they never did an audition rotation (including me).

To tell you the truth, I think you'll get a decent education at any of them.

Some are more OMT-intensive

Some have better betetr board scores (but not by much)

Key thing is to find the right fit.

[/QUOTE]

👍

 

[hallowmann]

Not sure why some people think you will get a decent education at any of the DO schools. This is far from the truth. SDN loves to claim "its up to the individual". Yes this is true to a degree, but why put yourself through more hurdles than you already have.

1) Pre-clinical curriculum: This matters because how well your school teaches (and efficiently) determines to a degree how much you have to catch up (or hopefully not catch up) when board studying time comes around. If you go to a school with poor professors who didnt teach you core concepts the first time, its more of a struggle to get caught up.

For example: I had a very good renal professor who was board relevant and was able to take complicated concepts and make it much simpler. I started board studying recently and Renal has been one of my best subjects on practice questions because I had a solid foundation. However, I had horrible Psych, Neuro, and Repro professors so I have had problems re-learning these topics because I was never taught it properly in the first place. A lot of my classmates feel the same way about these subjects to a degree.

I think the point is that at any school you will have good professors and bad professors. This is also sort of subjective, because different people learn in different ways. I know at one university I attended everyone said a certain professor was terrible, but their teaching style matched my way of learning. Ultimately though, you will find good and bad professors everywhere.

2) Rotation Sites AND Rotation subjects: Some schools make you do OMM rotations in 3rd year and some do not. Some schools have Emergency Medicine as a 3rd year rotation, and some do not. Look at the number of electives offered too in 3rd year. Ask yourself: Are you REALLY going to a D.O. school to focus on OMM and are you really going to use it in the fields you want to go into (assuming you think you know what you want to do before school starts). If you are interested in EM, you may want to lean towards a school that offers a 3rd year rotation. Look at Touro-NY as an example and their strong match history into EM. Next, what is the QUALITY of the schools rotation sites. Also, Hint: at every interview every school will claim they have solid rotations....and talking to older students while interviewing will yield a useless bias (obviously any med student taking the time to tour or interview pre-meds loves the school and may not represent the average student). For example, my school apparently has "good" rotation sites according to some on SDN yet we have numerous sites where students see 4-5 patients per week split between several students. Are you really going to learn a lot like that?

You will not receive a solid education at every DO school. Some schools offer an OK education, some bad, and some great. Dont be foolish to think they are all the same with tuition and location taken out of the equation. In the long run it might not make a difference (every school has amazing students), but when you go to study for those board exams (which can open or close a lot of doors) you will want a solid background......and when you go to get those reference letters during your Sub-Is in 4th year, you are going to want a solid 3rd year rotation experience

Edit: Of course if you want to go into the traditionally "less competitive" fields, this matters much less

Rotation sites seem like a bigger issue, but how do you find out this info ahead of time? Its not particularly easy to get detailed info on the sites, unless we have 3rd and 4th years actually talking about them. And even then, you have the whole answering bias associated with voluntary surveys.

Personally, I think that thread describing personal experiences at each med school is very useful, but that hasn't really been updated in a while.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Are you implying something? lol...I was simply looking at the various possibilities and costs associated. Of course there are pros and cons to selecting schools unique to each applicant. Especially if you get more than one acceptance.

Haha sorry...this wasn't meant to be directed at you at all.

 

[abolt18]

hey, didnt see this til now. But, I have decided to go to MUCOM...super excited 😀

👍

Awesome man, congrats! Best of luck to you and your family!

P.S. you currently have 2222 posts. Nice!

 

[hallowmann]

Haha sorry...this wasn't meant to be directed at you at all.

Yeah, I was waiting to see what happened there. It seemed a little harsh for a jedi, especially since a patented gif wasn't involved. 🙂

 

[Dr Dazzle]

Haha sorry...this wasn't meant to be directed at you at all.

No worries 🙂

 

[Ravizzle]

hey, didnt see this til now. But, I have decided to go to MUCOM...super excited 😀

👍

Congrats! Wish you the best of luck!

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Jas, unless you're going to be living with the parent or family, the cost probably isn't worth it. Denver is only ~3hrs from most of Michigan by air, and RVU is very family friendly and has a club that does just that, supports families... The tuition/fee email for 2nd year is this

Tuition $ 46,742
Student Services $ 180
Pathophysiological Overview 1 $ 1,178
Student Health Insurance $ 2,832
Books and Supplies $ 700
COMLEX Level 1 Exam $ 550
Room and Board $ 16,500
Personal Expenses $ 2,090
Transportation $ 3,520
Loan Fees $ 1,250
TOTAL Cost of Attendance $ 75,542

I bolded the things that will apply to first years, your total COA at RVU is less than the actual tuition only at MSU. 120-150k more at the end of your school is a big deal. That's an additional $600+/mo on your loan payment. So unless you can live with these people, and they'll pay ALL your expenses, I just don't see the school being worth it... Not to mention, we have a bunch of staff that came from MSU...

 

[Jas1360]

So it looks like the consensus is that no DO school is worth an extra 120,000 in student debt compared to other DO schools.

 

[NontradCA]

Hey congrats jas!

 

[Back 5]

So it looks like the consensus is that no DO school is worth an extra 120,000 in student debt compared to other DO schools.

Unless MSU was willing to decrease their tuition to in-state for you 👍

 

[Jas1360]

Hey congrats jas!

Thanks! 🙂

 

[Mehd School]

Unless MSU was willing to decrease their tuition to in-state for you 👍

I have a friend that was an Ohio resident that matriculated at MSU. They gave her in state tuition rates after her MS1 year. Their in-state tuition is lower than most DO schools.

 

[ILikeFood]

Of course it matters...but at what tuition? Will going to MSU be any better than going to LECOM? Will graduating $200,000 in debt affect your choices any differently than graduating $400,000 in debt? There is also the intrinsic value in the quality of pre-clinical education, in the quality of clinical rotations, in the association with residencies of a DO school which will be the foundation of your knowledge versus the extrinsic fact that one DO graduate isn't really differentiated from another during interviews, all scores being relatively the same.

Seeing as how he went to a new DO school and still managed to bag an acgme EM/IM residency (which I'm pretty sure there aren't many of), I think he is a perfect representation of the fact that your school doesn't matter nearly as much as you do.

If you've seen sylvanthus' board scores, you'd realize that he's the type of student that could've done well anywhere. The extrapolation isn't really the fact that you'll succeed regardless of where you go, it's more along the lines of
1. Will you be a student like sylvanthus and get insanely high board scores? If you think so then go wherever you like.
2. If not then think about the basic things you want from a medical school, see what they cost, and go to the cheaper alternative.

 

[Jas1360]

I have a friend that was an Ohio resident that matriculated at MSU. They gave her in state tuition rates after her MS1 year. Their in-state tuition is lower than most DO schools.

That's good to know. I'll have to look into that and see if it was a special circumstance or standard.

 

[hallowmann]

Of course it matters...but at what tuiIion? Will going to MSU be any better than going to LECOM? Will graduating $200,000 in debt affect your choices any differently then graduating $400,000 in debt? There is also the intrinsic value in the quality of pre-clinical education, in the quality of clinical rotations, in the association with residencies of a DO school which will be the foundation of your knowledge versus the extrinsic fact that one DO graduate isn't really differentiated from another during interviews, all scores being relatively the same.

Which schools have good clinical rotations?

The quality of pre-clinical education is at least somewhat measurable by board passing rates, but the quality of clinical sites is a bit harder to read. As a pre-med, I personally find it hard to know which school has good rotations, because really I'm not sure what to look for and they all claim to have great rotations. Should I be looking for big hospital systems vs. community hospitals? longevity of the program? Affiliations of clinical sites with other medical schools? I'm honestly not sure. Most schools have affiliations with both large and small hospitals, so what's the magic ratio of a good program? How do I even find out how many rotation spots are available at a specific hospital?

Really, the best resource I have found is talking to current and previous students, but in my area people go to one of 2 DO schools, and most other people I know are first or second years.

 

[LaughingMan]

Which schools have good clinical rotations?

The quality of pre-clinical education is at least somewhat measurable by board passing rates, but the quality of clinical sites is a bit harder to read. As a pre-med, I personally find it hard to know which school has good rotations, because really I'm not sure what to look for and they all claim to have great rotations. Should I be looking for big hospital systems vs. community hospitals? longevity of the program? Affiliations of clinical sites with other medical schools? I'm honestly not sure. Most schools have affiliations with both large and small hospitals, so what's the magic ratio of a good program? How do I even find out how many rotation spots are available at a specific hospital?

Really, the best resource I have found is talking to current and previous students, but in my area people go to one of 2 DO schools, and most other people I know are first or second years.

Were you ever able to find clinicals for the schools you were looking for?

I found a bunch but I believe you stated some difficulty?