Does it really get better 3rd year??

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ella umbrella

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so I'm studying for finals/boards, and it totally sucks.

My roommate is a stress ball who comes home crying her eyes out every single day about how much she hates med school, I'm more burned out than I've ever been in my entire life, my boards are in about 6 weeks and I'm in no shape or form prepared to take them, and unlike my lucky colleagues who lose weight when they are stressed out, I've gained 8 lbs in less than a year.

Does it really get much better 3rd year?? I keep hearing it does, but I'm very skeptical. Will I have time to work out again? Will it be less stressful than 2nd year? Will I be able to see my friends?!

I'm just tired. Hopeful...but really tired.
 
It does get better during third year IMO, but it isn't a cake walk. The stress of subjective evals and hit or miss shelf exams can really do a number on you. However, tests are only every two months and at least you aren't stuck in an office studying all day.

But the 4-8 weeks during board prep is probably the most stressful. However, if you work hard during that time it is going to pay off for the next 50 years.
 
it takes 3-4 months until you get used to 3rd year, but then yeah, it does get a little better

but yeah, as mentioned, instead of an objective number at the end of every block, you've got to worry about all the nuances involved in getting someone or a group of someones to like you, which isn't always as easy as it sounds. from the first day you start a rotation, you're constantly being evaluated, so everything you do you have to think will show up later in the comments section. . . . that and you have a shelf exam at the end for which you pretty much feel like you always fail, even though you always end up doing alright
 
forgot to mention--but on average days 3rd year are better than those 2nd year.

with that said, good days on 3rd year are better, but the bad days are much, much worse than anything you'll ever feel 2nd year (fortunately these aren't often)
 
Maybe it'll get better, maybe not. But at least it's different.
 
I agree, it's different! You'll be playing a whole new part and it can be awkward at times...but I don't think there's a way around that. Some are more natural at it than others...try not to beat yourself up. I always found that most of the pressure came from myself, unfortunately.

It's normal to be nervous before 3rd year...this didn't help me very much, though. If you have some time off before 2nd/3rd year,take a vacation or relax.
 
Yes, it gets SOOOO much better. Hang in there. I wanted to die when I was studying for Step 1. This year I've gotten to do things that most people will never get the chance to do in their entire lives (deliver a baby, hold a human heart, sew up a scalp that was hanging off a trauma patient's head, screw metal plates into someone's vertebrae...) I'm actually excited about medicine again. And I'm even on OB/gyn as I'm saying this - unbelievable, I know.
 
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Every year in med school is better than the last. Every year is also harder than the last, just in different ways.

You will have very little time to work out in third year. You will have time for friends and church (if you allow it).
 
Yes! You actually do things and see patients and it's wonderful!
...
until you get to Peds clinic and a billion parents ask you about Swine Flu every day...😛
 
ella umbrella said:
Does it really get much better 3rd year?? I keep hearing it does, but I'm very skeptical. Will I have time to work out again? Will it be less stressful than 2nd year? Will I be able to see my friends?!

I'm just tired. Hopeful...but really tired.
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It gets different in 3rd year and it all depends on who is on your rotations with you - all student/resident/attending dependent. You *may* get more time to workout again but considering you will be in the hospital most of the day doing things (or more like following someone while they do something), you may come home drained thinking "wow i need to start studying for this shelf in 2 months". Working out can be done if you're motivated. It's definitely easier to regularly workout the first 2 years than during 3rd year (on easy rotations, of course, anything can be done).

Stress is once again subjective. sometimes the stress level goes up because you are going to be anxious when you get asked questions in front of the group, worried about who not to piss off, worried about what impact your actions or lack of actions will have on your evaluations, etc. This is all person dependent

You can kiss having every weekend off during the year goodbye BUT this isn't as bad as it sounds. Weekends off during 1st and 2nd year meant you needed to catch up on your studying. Some weekends during 3rd year you may be on call and others you will study for a few hours and enjoy the rest of the day.

If all that doesn't make you feel better, just know that the feeling you get when you answer the last question on Step 1 and walk out of the testing center is amazing.
 
I have to agree that it is ALL rotation dependent. I love the clinical exposure but I find it a bit more stressful than last year. Most nights I get very little sleep and my weekends are gone. Good luck!
 
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I'm a first year, and I woke up this morning at 8:40am. Then decided that I was still tired so I would wake up at 9am. My alarm went off, and I turned it off and continued my wonderful REM sleep. Then I finally decided to straggle out of bed at 9:45am. While getting out of bed I thought to myself, damn, 3rd year is going to be a bitch.
 
i hate PBL small groups so since we'll always be in small groups and with our team during 3rd year, is it gonna be as agonizing as PBL? maybe a stupid question, but humor me.
 
crystalgreen said:
i hate PBL small groups so since we'll always be in small groups and with our team during 3rd year, is it gonna be as agonizing as PBL? maybe a stupid question, but humor me.
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There will be case-based teaching, but it never felt like PBL to me. Your PBL days are over.
 
how much free time in general do you have during your third year? I need at least 3 hours a day, 4 times a week to exercise or ill go insane. will I have this amount of time during the harder rotations?
 
Why are weekends "gone" if you aren't on call???
 
endofevangelion said:
how much free time in general do you have during your third year? I need at least 3 hours a day, 4 times a week to exercise or ill go insane. will I have this amount of time during the harder rotations?
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that could be pretty difficult to pull off during certain rotations. when you are on a rotation with overnight call every 4th day (medicine, neuro, peds, ~surgery), there will be a time you work 13-14 days straight (your "black" weekend). often they are pretty long days even when you don't stay over.

sleep became a priority for me...and doing laundry!

but radiology, psych, outpatient medicine...these were great months. And in between rotations you could have a weekend off, which is also fantastic.

there will always be light at the end of the tunnel, but there will be some hard stretches...
 
nope80 said:
Why are weekends "gone" if you aren't on call???
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Because hospitals don't respect or close on the weekends, so there's a team that's going to be working each day regardless. A lot of the rotations use the system where your team is working a full weekend, and two half weekends each month, and a golden weekend each month. So you'll have a grand total of 4 days off each month. Some places instead of weekends just give their residents/med students 4 days off a month that aren't call or post-call, so you may have no weekends off but be off on 4 weekdays. And some of your few days off each month (whether weekends or not) will end up being spent studying for the shelf exam you have in each rotation, so the days "off" you really have can be pretty minimal. And if you time it wrong -- with the last weekend in one rotation being a black weekend, and the first one in the next rotation being a black weekend, you can theoretically end up working something like 28 days in a row without a break. It's not so bad -- gives you a taste of what residency will be like, where you are lucky to have too many weekend days.
 
ella umbrella said:
...Will I have time to work out again? Will it be less stressful than 2nd year? Will I be able to see my friends?!
...
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Third year is better, but NOT in terms of time. Your time is going to be a lot less your own, and in many of the rotations you are going to be logging more hours than you ever thought possible. So no, you might not have time to work out if you didn't find the time in 2d year. And no, you won't see your friends as much, unless they happen to be on rotations with you. (You tend to see the 2-3 med students you get paired up with in the rotations a lot - which may be a good or bad thing). So if you are thinking that 3rd year is going to be better because of more time or flexibility, you are in for a shocker -- it's the opposite. That being said, most people consider it better NOT because it is easier, less stressful, less time consuming (it is none of these), but because you are no longer sitting in a classroom being talked at, you are actually doing stuff. You will be seeing patients, part of a team, trying your hand at supervised procedural things, assisting in operations, etc. There will be many moments where you sit back and think -- wow this is cool. We learned about this in 2d year but now I'm actually seeing it.
That's what makes it better.

But in terms of time -- you may be on rotations where you need to be prerounding at 5 am, you may be on rotations where you never get out of there at a reasonable hour even on non-call nights. You lose your weekends to a large degree (as mentioned above). You may be working overnight every 3rd or 4th night on some rotations, which means you aren't going out with friends during that block -- if you get a free day, you sleep. It's going to be one of the most challenging years of med school. But most consider it "better" because it's cooler, not because it's easier or that you will have time for thing you didn't have time for in the prior year. You have less time than 2d year, and that time you have is less your own. You get excited to have the amount of time you took for granted the prior year.
 
endofevangelion said:
how much free time in general do you have during your third year? I need at least 3 hours a day, 4 times a week to exercise or ill go insane. will I have this amount of time during the harder rotations?
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Then get ready for insanity. that schedule will simply not be possible in IM, surgery, OB, and maybe peds unless you can get by on 2 hours of sleep a night. Honestly in parts of rotations like surgery you will be showing up before five and not even coming home at all every 3rd or 4th night. And when you are home you are likely going to climb into bed or study for the shelf. you probably will have time to work out a plenty in psych and family med.
 
BozoSparky said:
...
but radiology, psych, outpatient medicine...these were great months. And in between rotations you could have a weekend off, which is also fantastic.
...
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At most schools (based on numerous threads), rads is not a 3rd year rotation, it's a 4th year elective. there's lots of workout potential in 4th year, but at most places you are stuck with the core rotations during 3rd year which aren't nearly as flexible.
 
Law2Doc said:
You get excited to have the amount of time you took for granted the prior year.
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Yes, this is very true!

When I had a free weekend coming up (and no shelf exam pressure), it seemed like a summer vacation. It really forces you to make the most of your time off.

Re: radiology - we have it 3rd year...didn't know that it's uncommon.
 
endofevangelion said:
how much free time in general do you have during your third year? I need at least 3 hours a day, 4 times a week to exercise or ill go insane. will I have this amount of time during the harder rotations?
Click to expand...
As stated, you almost certainty won't have time for serious exercise during the most time consuming rotations like surgery. But you'll likely be up and moving around a lot, so it's not like you're going to have a ton of pent up energy anyway. 🙂
 
peppy said:
As stated, you almost certainty won't have time for serious exercise during the most time consuming rotations like surgery. But you'll likely be up and moving around a lot, so it's not like you're going to have a ton of pent up energy anyway. 🙂
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Agreed. Chasing residents up and down flights of stairs during codes will be as much cardio as you can handle. And your arms will be sore from holding up limbs for hours during ortho procedures.
 
stupid question - we have two parts to our medicine rotation. One of them is ambulatory, I forget what the other is called (maybe inpatient). What is the difference in what we will actually be doing?
 
nope80 said:
stupid question - we have two parts to our medicine rotation. One of them is ambulatory, I forget what the other is called (maybe inpatient). What is the difference in what we will actually be doing?
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In-patient medicine = sick enough to get admitted - it'll probably be general medicine, but it could include cardiology, nephrology, pulmonology, etc. My patients were things like pneumonia, hypertensive crises, gout, cellulitis, lots of cardiac "rule out MI" admissions, etc. This was Q4 call for me - I didn't stay overnight, but I stayed until 10pm, admitting patients from the ER or directly from a clinic. This was one of those "only 4 days off all month" rotations. Started around 7am.

Ambulatory = in the clinic, probably 9-5 hours, weekdays only. Complaints are usually minor, med checks, refills, etc. Occasionally someone really sick will come in and they'll get sent to the ER or be directly admitted.
 
Overall though, saying that it gets "better" is going to mean many different things to many people. Let's put it like this - I'd rather repeat M3 than M2. M2 is stressful, but sleep a lot and enjoy it. You need to study a lot, but except for the occasional exam week, I never put in the hours that I do on a rotation. Busiest exam week, I think I studied 80 hours (fair amount of down time, I'm sure). Busiest rotation, I was in the hospital for 90 hours (maybe 2-3 hours of sleep mixed in there).
 
I actually think 3rd year is worse than 2nd year because I have to get up earlier, don't have as much free time and am honestly not interested in lots of aspects of clinical medicine (I like adult patients but am not excited about surgery, procedures or delivering babies). But lots of people like it more, so maybe you will. Overall, though, 2nd year and board study doesn't have to be as miserable as you're making it. You're not going to study effectively if you're not giving yourself off time (like to workout or hangout). You need to learn now how to have an OK life in spite of these other obligations because you're always going to have hard tests and difficult schedules in the medical world. Easier said than done, I know, but you have a choice about how miserable you have to be. And if you don't establish this balance, I don't think 3rd year will be that much better for you because you'll still have shelves to freak out about.

As for weekends and spare time in 3rd year, it depends on your school and your rotations. Free weekends are definitely not the norm for interns whatever their specialty is. Some rotations in 3rd year are ridiculously easy, and some are really hard with intense time requirements. On medicine, our days weren't super long (7 am to mid to late afternoon), but you very rarely had a full free weekend. I'm on surgery now where the days are long (5 am to 5 pm), but we get free weekends except for one Friday call and one Saturday call. On ob/gyn, our weekends were free except for one Saturday call. On the easy rotations like geriatrics and family medicine, the days at the longest were 8 to 5, and every weekend was free.

As for stress, I'm going to have people want to smack me here, but I think the nice thing for 3rd year for some students is that you're through all the really tough academic obstacles (clinical sciences and Step I). Once you make it to 3rd year, you're going to graduate. So if you were worried about failing out, you can stop worrying so much. Now if you're worried about acing things instead of just passing, 3rd year can be worse than 2nd year because of the subjectivity in evaluations.
 
Doctor Bagel said:
...
As for stress, I'm going to have people want to smack me here, but I think the nice thing for 3rd year for some students is that you're through all the really tough academic obstacles (clinical sciences and Step I). Once you make it to 3rd year, you're going to graduate. So if you were worried about failing out, you can stop worrying so much. Now if you're worried about acing things instead of just passing, 3rd year can be worse than 2nd year because of the subjectivity in evaluations.
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The application/matching phase is pretty stressful for many -- graduation is hardly the only major target you are shooting for before you get out.
 
Law2Doc said:
The application/matching phase is pretty stressful for many -- graduation is hardly the only major target you are shooting for before you get out.
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But if you're a person who was worrying about failing/graduating, you're not exactly gunning for derm or ophtho. And we're talking about 3rd year, not 4th year.
 
So what I understand from this thread is that 3rd year will be cool, since I won't be sitting around and studying all day. But it will also suck big time because I like having my freedom in pre-clinical years to goof around and sleep/wake whenever I want.
 
badasshairday said:
So what I understand from this thread is that 3rd year will be cool, since I won't be sitting around and studying all day. But it will also suck big time because I like having my freedom in pre-clinical years to goof around and sleep/wake whenever I want.
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That's pretty much it. You also have to deal with more political stuff in 3rd year. You can avoid annoying classmates during 1st and 2nd year, but it's not so easy during 3rd year. And some rotations still require a lot of studying, but it's less than 1st and 2nd year.
 
Doctor Bagel said:
That's pretty much it. You also have to deal with more political stuff in 3rd year. You can avoid annoying classmates during 1st and 2nd year, but it's not so easy during 3rd year. And some rotations still require a lot of studying, but it's less than 1st and 2nd year.
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Wouldn't it be easier to avoid them because you hardly ever see them? Or are you talking about annoying people in your rotation group?
 
footcloud said:
Or are you talking about annoying people in your rotation group?
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This! You see your rotation partners a lot, so even people you like start to annoy you. If you're with someone who rubs you the wrong way, it can really suck. The same is true for residents on your team.
 
footcloud said:
Wouldn't it be easier to avoid them because you hardly ever see them? Or are you talking about annoying people in your rotation group?
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As DB said you get paired up with two or three people who you have to see 80 hours/week. If you don't get along with them, you are SOL. In the prior two years if you don't like someone you just avoid them.
 
Doctor Bagel said:
This! You see your rotation partners a lot, so even people you like start to annoy you. If you're with someone who rubs you the wrong way, it can really suck. The same is true for residents on your team.
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Oh yeah! +10

Though there are a few folks with whom I really enjoy rotating. The gunners get annoying pretty quickly though.
 
I think the thing about some people is that they aren't even trying to be gunners, but it's like mentally instilled in their personality or something. I know of a couple of people who may not have ill intentions, but they LOVE to correct people or 'teach'/'pimp' them whether or not a prof is there or not.
 
OP - Ha ha, no, third year is more of the same, just different. Good thing is, by the end, you won't care. And the less you care, the better you do.
 
Doctor Bagel said:
This! You see your rotation partners a lot, so even people you like start to annoy you. If you're with someone who rubs you the wrong way, it can really suck. The same is true for residents on your team.
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The solution is to never sign up for rotations at your main hospital. Small, outlying hospitals treat students better, have less of the heirarchy, you'll get more one-on-one time with the attending, and you'll rarely see your classmates.
 
RxnMan said:
The solution is to never sign up for rotations at your main hospital. Small, outlying hospitals treat students better, have less of the heirarchy, you'll get more one-on-one time with the attending, and you'll rarely see your classmates.
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Doesn't work at my school. You pick one of two clinical campuses, and everyone at that campus does rotations at the same spot. No outlying student free hospitals. Sounds like a good idea for other spots depending on commutes and whatnot. Also, having fellow students around can be nice because you have someone going through the same experience with you. I've liked most of the people I've rotated with.
 
Doctor Bagel said:
Doesn't work at my school. You pick one of two clinical campuses, and everyone at that campus does rotations at the same spot. No outlying student free hospitals. Sounds like a good idea for other spots depending on commutes and whatnot. Also, having fellow students around can be nice because you have someone going through the same experience with you. I've liked most of the people I've rotated with.
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Yup - same here. 90+ % of rotations are done at the University hospital - no options to go elsewhere until 4th year.
 
Doctor Bagel said:
Doesn't work at my school. You pick one of two clinical campuses, and everyone at that campus does rotations at the same spot. No outlying student free hospitals. Sounds like a good idea for other spots depending on commutes and whatnot. Also, having fellow students around can be nice because you have someone going through the same experience with you. I've liked most of the people I've rotated with.
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Same here. Also, we get placed into "tracks" with the same 15 people all year. We get a few folks that pass in and out depending on if they have a temporary change, if they switch one rotation to take an elective, etc. Overall, it is the same 15. We have 2-3 folks that are unabashed gunners in this group. The rest are fun to work with, even as this year comes to an end.
 
It's more fun once you get the sleep thing down. The first few weeks most people are probably pretty shell shocked by the tiredness.
 
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