Does it worth it?

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nonick123

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Hi all, I'm an IMG in my 4 year on a 6-year curriculum. Recently I became very interested in anesthesia and see it as a possible future career. My dream is to work in the US and I have a green card. However, I have read all the doom and gloom on this forum-about the CRNA, dropping salaries, disrespect and so on. Is the situation that bad and what the future then? Would you advise a student to enter the speciality?
 
nonick123 said:
Hi all, I'm an IMG in my 4 year on a 6-year curriculum. Recently I became very interested in anesthesia and see it as a possible future career. My dream is to work in the US and I have a green card. However, I have read all the doom and gloom on this forum-about the CRNA, dropping salaries, disrespect and so on. Is the situation that bad and what the future then? Would you advise a student to enter the speciality?
Click to expand...
Dis gon b gud. 🙂
 
nonick123 said:
Hi all, I'm an IMG in my 4 year on a 6-year curriculum. Recently I became very interested in anesthesia and see it as a possible future career. My dream is to work in the US and I have a green card. However, I have read all the doom and gloom on this forum-about the CRNA, dropping salaries, disrespect and so on. Is the situation that bad and what the future then? Would you advise a student to enter the speciality?
Click to expand...
Go to Europe or Canada if you can.
 
It's getting to that point when more and more imgs will be entering our specialty as there is downward pressure on salaries and quality of jobs. If you are willing to supervise CRNAs or compete with them and work side by side with them as a 'colleague', by all means go ahead and try. I would not recommend this specialty to an AMG.


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Troll?

They've been predicting the end of our specialty for 30+ years. Every specialty has its challenges before it, do what you are interested in.

That being said, it's getting harder for IMGs to break into anesthesia as PGG said - we continue to see stronger and stronger domestic applicants at our program. Domestic applications are up 15-20% from last year at our program for this time, so clearly students are still very much interested.
 
Wiscoblue said:
It's getting to that point when more and more imgs will be entering our specialty as there is downward pressure on salaries and quality of jobs. If you are willing to supervise CRNAs or compete with them and work side by side with them as a 'colleague', by all means go ahead and try. I would not recommend this specialty to an AMG.


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Out of curiosity, what specialties would you recommend for an AMG?
 
Wiscoblue said:
I would suggest something that gives you the option to practice independently. Any surgical specialty. GI, EP, etc.


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thank you Wiscoblue. I'm definitely more on the IM side than surgery, do you think oncology is good? I like the patient population a lot, but where I am people tell me their incomes are only going downhill?
 
Planktonmd said:
Go to Europe or Canada if you can.
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Australia and NZ also not bad choices if possible.

UK not so sure about though (e.g., see all the junior doctors striking, possible move toward privatising NHS according to several UK physicians I know).
 
DetectiveAlonzo said:
LOL does it worth it
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Does it worth it? It do. 😉

4EWzh7J.jpg
 
notcool said:
thank you Wiscoblue. I'm definitely more on the IM side than surgery, do you think oncology is good? I like the patient population a lot, but where I am people tell me their incomes are only going downhill?
Click to expand...

Nobody should pick a medical specialty based on money. That's a one way ticket to dissatisfaction.
 
Robotic Wis-Hipple said:
Nobody should pick a medical specialty based on money. That's a one way ticket to dissatisfaction.
Click to expand...
Another one way ticket is to pick it based on "passion". There are many miserable writers and painters in the world, and there will be also anesthesiologists, too, especially when CRNAs become independent. Not if, but when. If I were a medical student now, I would rank this specialty very close to the bottom of the heap.

Every manager would rather hire two CRNAs instead of one anesthesiologist. Or, even better, an anesthesiologist at a CRNA (hourly) salary. We're getting there.

Same goes for fellowships, by the way. Forget your passion, and just follow the market. Long-term, you'll be happier.
 
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FFP said:
Another one way ticket is to pick it based on "passion". There are many miserable writers and painters in the world, and there will be also anesthesiologists, too, especially when CRNAs become independent. Not if, but when.

Every manager would rather hire two CRNAs instead of one anesthesiologist. Or, even better, an anesthesiologist at a CRNA (hourly) salary. We're getting there.
Click to expand...

Sure. Yet those that love the gig won't be as pissed off as the guy that liked oncology but went into anesthesia for the 400k.....

But I'll contradict myself a bit and say I think it's different to rule out a specialty because of money; like peds, they pay those docs peanuts, it's crazy. Just don't look at the highest salary specialties and force yourself into one for the money is all I'm saying.
 
FFP said:
Another one way ticket is to pick it based on "passion". There are many miserable writers and painters in the world, and there will be also anesthesiologists, too, especially when CRNAs become independent. Not if, but when. If I were a medical student now, I would rank this specialty very close to the bottom of the heap.

Every manager would rather hire two CRNAs instead of one anesthesiologist. Or, even better, an anesthesiologist at a CRNA (hourly) salary. We're getting there.

Same goes for fellowships, by the way. Forget your passion, and just go with the market. Long-term, you'll be happier.
Click to expand...

Make 'em fight for every inch of turf. Nationally, on a state level, and locally.
 
Robotic Wis-Hipple said:
Sure. Yet those that love the gig won't be as pissed off as the guy that liked oncology but went into anesthesia for the 400k.....

But I'll contradict myself a bit and say I think it's different to rule out a specialty because of money; like peds, they pay those docs peanuts, it's crazy. Just don't look at the highest salary specialties and force yourself into one for the money is all I'm saying.
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I see where you are coming from, and I agree with most of the sentiment. Except that I feel that certain specialties are doomed, and are not really worth it. Anesthesia is one of them, it's just a question of time now.

The best specialties are the ones where one can easily stand out for being good at what one does. Where the amount of education, work and the outcomes are easily visible to the average Joe (instead of wondering why he needs a doctor to put him to sleep). And where a midlevel plus/minus some smarter machines could not replace soon a big part of what one does. Everybody whose work is based on pattern recognition and easy algorithms is replaceable.
 
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Yeesh, I still get surprised at how bitter some people are on this forum. I can't stand Pain and have learned to hate CCM - a salary > $1 million wouldn't change my mind, since I'd be miserable and working hard at something I hated.

I'll take making above average physician income, working average hours and doing something I really enjoy. I didn't really get into medicine for the money anyway. Plus it doesn't take an insane number of PGY years to make full specialist income. The CRNA "threat" has been there forever, I'm not concerned about it. Less threats to anesthesiology than other specialties, as I posted above.
 
AdmiralChz said:
Yeesh, I still get surprised at how bitter some people are on this forum. I can't stand Pain and have learned to hate CCM - a salary > $1 million wouldn't change my mind, since I'd be miserable and working hard at something I hated.

I'll take making above average physician income, working average hours and doing something I really enjoy. I didn't really get into medicine for the money anyway. Plus it doesn't take an insane number of PGY years to make full specialist income. The CRNA "threat" has been there forever, I'm not concerned about it. Less threats to anesthesiology than other specialties, as I posted above.
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Let's hope your positive outlook on life will remain as positive a few years down the road!
 
dr doze said:
Make 'em fight for every inch of turf. Nationally, on a state level, and locally.
Click to expand...

Nurses are more ballsy than us physicians and future physicians and they have the proper lobbyists and interest groups to support them.

We are a bunch of spineless pushovers that need to come together and show midlevels exactly where they belong. This is bull**** to be quite honest.
 
FFP said:
I see where you are coming from, and I agree with most of the sentiment. Except that I feel that certain specialties are doomed, and are not really worth it. Anesthesia is one of them, it's just a question of time now.

The best specialties are the ones where one can easily stand out for being good at what one does. Where the amount of education, work and the outcomes are easily visible to the average Joe (instead of wondering why he needs a doctor to put him to sleep). And where a midlevel plus/minus some smarter machines could not replace soon a big part of what one does. Everybody whose work is based on pattern recognition and easy algorithms is replaceable.
Click to expand...

Atleast until CRNAs and ******* FNPs and PAs start killing patients.
 
nonick123 said:
Hi all, I'm an IMG in my 4 year on a 6-year curriculum. Recently I became very interested in anesthesia and see it as a possible future career. My dream is to work in the US and I have a green card. However, I have read all the doom and gloom on this forum-about the CRNA, dropping salaries, disrespect and so on. Is the situation that bad and what the future then? Would you advise a student to enter the speciality?
Click to expand...
I don't know if it does worth it.

I would advise you to take a good look at America in person before venturing here. It is far from paradise. They will work you to death and will tax you even after your death to wage wars that nobody ever approved. In return they will not provide any benefits for you or your family. The roads here have more potholes than any 3rd world country I have visited. Public education is a disgrace. Public transportation is the worst I have seen and in fact I consider it dangerous. Healthcare is unaffordable for the people who work yet the people who do not work get the best healthcare in the world. Eveything you do is constantly being recorded by the government, including this discussion.

Consider the fact that there are more Mexicans moving out of the States than moving into.

Mexico might as well build Trump's wall to stop people from crossing into their country illegaly.
 
urge said:
I don't know if it does worth it.

I would advise you to take a good look at America in person before venturing here. It is far from paradise. They will work you to death and will tax you even after your death to wage wars that nobody ever approved. In return they will not provide any benefits for you or your family. The roads here have more potholes than any 3rd world country I have visited. Public education is a disgrace. Public transportation is the worst I have seen and in fact I consider it dangerous. Healthcare is unaffordable for the people who work yet the people who do not work get the best healthcare in the world. Eveything you do is constantly being recorded by the government, including this discussion.

Consider the fact that there are more Mexicans moving out of the States than moving into.

Mexico might as well build Trump's wall to stop people from crossing into their country illegaly.
Click to expand...

Damn.

that's deep.
 
urge said:
I don't know if it does worth it.

I would advise you to take a good look at America in person before venturing here. It is far from paradise. They will work you to death and will tax you even after your death to wage wars that nobody ever approved. In return they will not provide any benefits for you or your family. The roads here have more potholes than any 3rd world country I have visited. Public education is a disgrace. Public transportation is the worst I have seen and in fact I consider it dangerous. Healthcare is unaffordable for the people who work yet the people who do not work get the best healthcare in the world. Eveything you do is constantly being recorded by the government, including this discussion.

Consider the fact that there are more Mexicans moving out of the States than moving into.

Mexico might as well build Trump's wall to stop people from crossing into their country illegaly.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately for once ... you are right!
 
DetectiveAlonzo said:
Atleast until CRNAs and ******* FNPs and PAs start killing patients.
Click to expand...
NPs have been independent, for quite a while, in certain parts of the country. No crimes against humanity were reported. Like it or not, that's the cost-driven future.

Now CRNAs, and other healthcare professionals working in high acuity fields, are a different matter. A bad decision could cost much more than in FP. That's why most hospitals don't let them practice unsupervised. But, given enough smart monitors, software and protocols, that will change, too, sooner or later.

The anesthesia horse ain't gonna win more races.
 
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FFP said:
I see where you are coming from, and I agree with most of the sentiment. Except that I feel that certain specialties are doomed, and are not really worth it. Anesthesia is one of them, it's just a question of time now.

The best specialties are the ones where one can easily stand out for being good at what one does. Where the amount of education, work and the outcomes are easily visible to the average Joe (instead of wondering why he needs a doctor to put him to sleep). And where a midlevel plus/minus some smarter machines could not replace soon a big part of what one does. Everybody whose work is based on pattern recognition and easy algorithms is replaceable.
Click to expand...

Which specialties do you think fit that category? Would you say radiology or EM are on that level?
 
FootballFoot said:
Which specialties do you think fit that category? Would you say radiology or EM are on that level?
Click to expand...
Do patients ask for a certain radiologist or ED doc when they go to the hospital? 😉

No patients = no...body. Especially in the coming world of bundled services. The specialties that own the patients are the organization's sales people, the most important. Just wait 5-10 years and you'll see what I mean.
 
I think the only safe route is IM + Fellowship to make them big bucks.

That just means.. oh... 10 more years of school lol no big deal!
 
The only way to beat the incursion of the nurses and mid levels is to take a pay cut and compete at 250k. That's when they will get driven out of the market.


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Wiscoblue said:
The only way to beat the incursion of the nurses and mid levels is to take a pay cut and compete at 250k. That's when they will get driven out of the market.


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Click to expand...

But is gas worth $250K?

Hell.. MEDICINE is not worth $250K for the amount of hours you put in.
 
Wiscoblue said:
The only way to beat the incursion of the nurses and mid levels is to take a pay cut and compete at 250k. That's when they will get driven out of the market.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Ouch. If so, that'd seem to be a Pyrrhic victory.
 
Predicting the Future — Big Data, Machine Learning, and Clinical Medicine
Ziad Obermeyer, M.D., and Ezekiel J. Emanuel, M.D., Ph.D.

N Engl J Med 2016; 375:1216-1219September 29, 2016DOI: 10.1056/NEJMp1606181

"Algorithms will also monitor and interpret streaming physiological data, replacing aspects of anesthesiology and critical care. The time scale for these disruptions is years, not decades."

"Second, machine learning will displace much of the work of radiologists and anatomical pathologists. These physicians focus largely on interpreting digitized images, which can easily be fed directly to algorithms instead."
 
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