Does legacy have a substantial affect on admission?

[Chlost]

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I'm just curious if anyone knows if this is true (i.e. know of someone that got into a school with sub-par numbers, likely due to the fact that a relative went to that school)... also is having a sibling at a particular medical school considered legacy, or is it just a parent?

 

[IceKid]

I'm just curious if anyone knows if this is true (i.e. know of someone that got into a school with sub-par numbers, likely due to the fact that a relative went to that school)... also is having a sibling at a particular medical school considered legacy, or is it just a parent?

sure it happens- how often depends on the school really. and i believe when asking about relatives, they do ask about parents and siblings in most cases.

 

[DMO]

I'm sure it happens in admissions all the time. How did you think George W. Bush got into Yale? However, I bet that this kind of thing goes on mostly in Business, Law, and "Un-Science" based degree programs. I don't think medical admissions is too influenced by that kind of thinking. It would be ludicris to think that my doctor got in because his father was a doctor.

 

[skiz knot]

I'm sure it happens in admissions all the time. How did you think George W. Bush got into Yale? However, I bet that this kind of thing goes on mostly in Business, Law, and "Un-Science" based degree programs. I don't think medical admissions is too influenced by that kind of thinking. It would be ludicris to think that my doctor got in because his father was a doctor.

There is a reason why about 1/2 of all secondaries ask if you have parents/relatives who went to, or work for, X medical school.

Do I think that it will help an "unqualified" student to be accepted? No, at least I sure as hell hope not. But it may become a factor when helping to distinguish between similiarly qualified candidates.

I think there should be a law that would make this type of question illegal on professional school applications.

 

[Rogue_Leader]

I think it helps a great deal in the early part of the application. Both my parents went to UVA (for grad school, not med school). I was given an interview very quickly because of it I believe, since I got my interview barely a week after I sent my secondary in. However, 2 weeks after my interview, I was flat out rejected. My stats were right at the average for UVA, so it wasn't too much of a stretch that I might have been accepted. My guess is that my essay and EC's and stuff didn't click with them to begin with, but they gave me a courtsey interview since I was a legacy. Unfortunately, I'm from NY, so going to Virginia was kind of a long trip for me to just get a courtsey interview. I'd have prefered to be courtsey waitlisted, but that's just me 😛 I spoke to a few physicians who've worked in academic medicine, and they said that unless your parents are donating something like $10000 a year to the school, being a legacy isn't going to make them change their standards for admission, but it'll work as kindof a tiebreaker if you're neck and neck with another guy for the last spot in the class.

 

[Gleevec]

I just love how in general a lot of the same people violently opposed to AA seem a-ok with legacy admissions. 😕

 

[Amicus]

I just love how in general a lot of the same people violently opposed to AA seem a-ok with legacy admissions. 😕

Legacy is an bunch of crap, but no one should pretend it is as bad as AA.
Umich, liberal as all get out, gave 5 points in 150 to being a legacy and 20 for being black and 20 for being poor. So the rich white boy vs the poor black boy is not even the same ballpark. But for reasons of pure principle if not magnitude, it should be eliminated.

 

[velo]

My parents are friends with a physician who we learned got accepted to a major Chicago medical school with questionable qualifications. It just so happend that his father went there and was a SIGNIFICANT contributer ($10000+)...granted this was about 20 years ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of thing still went on...

 

[Mistress S]

A friend of a friend just got into OHSU with a 25 MCAT (non-URM), his brother is a doctor there (their dad is also a doctor, don't know where he went to school). It sounds like he maybe used his connections there a bit to get a letter from a physician who teaches at OHSU, so even if the legacy thing didn't help just having those connections probably did. But, I don't know all the particulars of his app, I was just sort of surprised to hear he got accepted off the waitlist with such a low MCAT, that's like 6 points below their average and my understanding is that his GPA was just avg. too. Who knows...he was on another waitlist too, apparently. Maybe there's something really incredible in his app I don't know about, but it seems very possible that the legacy thing may have helped him out.

 

[stinkycheese]

My father is a clinical professor at, and alum of, one of the medical schools to which I am applying, and I have been told pretty much flat-out that it will NOT weigh at all into the ad com's decision, because they get many applications each year from someone with some sort of "connection", and if they favored each one, half their class would be legacies or relatives of past students/doctors.

 

[jtorres]

gleevec, you are da man! maybe i should try to get into umich. 20 points for being poor. im assuming more than 20 for being mex-amer. thats forty-plus points! go wolverines! nah just kidding, texas schools rock.

 

[BlackstarNYC]

I just love how in general a lot of the same people violently opposed to AA seem a-ok with legacy admissions. 😕

👍

 

[GBFKicks]

I just love how in general a lot of the same people violently opposed to AA seem a-ok with legacy admissions. 😕

Excellent point... I was just about to post that and I saw your post. In my opinion, lecacies getting in is so much worse than URMs. It's absolutely ridiculous.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that legacies are especially true at the more "prestigious" schools--can anyone say Ivies?

Also, we all know that it is widespread in undergrad, but we'd be fools to say that it doesn't happen in med school--and quite often.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

How do we go about eliminating it?

No offense, OP, I want to stop your free gravy train.

 

[bkmonkey]

I've got a good one here. I met a person on my interview tour who was applying to school X. This person's gpa was about a 2.7 and MCAT around a 26. Said person had almost no clinical experience, but some decent volunteer experience. I was like "there's no way you're getting in here." So, I get back to California and hear from this person about a month later. He received an offer for admission the DAY AFTER his interview. Turns out one of this person's family members had been on the Adcom for a great number of years so they got in. What a load of cr@p. 😡 😡 😡 It took the school about a month to let me know I was waitlisted...

 

[stinkycheese]

I've got a good one here. I met a person on my interview tour who was applying to school X. This person's gpa was about a 2.7 and MCAT around a 26. Said person had almost no clinical experience, but some decent volunteer experience. I was like "there's no way you're getting in here." So, I get back to California and hear from this person about a month later. He received an offer for admission the DAY AFTER his interview. Turns out one of this person's family members had been on the Adcom for a great number of years so they got in. What a load of cr@p. 😡 😡 😡 It took the school about a month to let me know I was waitlisted...

That just seems unbelievable, it's so ridiculous. I am not doubting your credibility, just expressing my disbelief!

There are so many times when people in my community will say, "Duh, you're so going to get into School X, your father's very important there!" And it's annoying, because there's just as good a chance that I won't get in, and not only that, but it's quite self-deprecrating to live life thinking that you are a physician because of who your father is. I don't want that kind of stigma.

 

[bkmonkey]

I assure you I didn't make this up. When I spoke with the person after their interview, they even explained that it was because of their family member that they got in. I was super pissed for like 2 weeks afterwards. It's total bs that somebody like that takes a spot from somebody who really deserves to enter medicine. If you don't earn it, you shouldn't get it.

 

[Rogue_Leader]

I assure you I didn't make this up. When I spoke with the person after their interview, they even explained that it was because of their family member that they got in. I was super pissed for like 2 weeks afterwards. It's total bs that somebody like that takes a spot from somebody who really deserves to enter medicine. If you don't earn it, you shouldn't get it.

The rallying cry of the Anti AA faction.

 

[bkmonkey]

Oh, I forgot to include the ending. So this person asks if I had received any admissions (at that point I hadn't yet) and I say no. They then say (in a very condescending tone) " don't worry, you'll probably get in next year. I guess your application just didn't have what it takes. Thanks a lot a##hole. I feel sorry for those of you who have to go to school with this person.

 

[bkmonkey]

The rallying cry of the Anti AA faction.

Please, I didn't say I'm anti-aa. I just think legacy is crap.

 

[Arusak]

Oh, I forgot to include the ending. So this person asks if I had received any admissions (at that point I hadn't yet) and I say no. They then say (in a very condescending tone) " don't worry, you'll probably get in next year. I guess your application just didn't have what it takes. Thanks a lot a##hole. I feel sorry for those of you who have to go to school with this person.

Haha...the important thing is that you're not bitter about it. 🙂

 

[stinkycheese]

If I were you, I would straight-up write a letter to that school's local newspaper exposing their admissions policies (anonymously, with a pseudonym, of course), and then sit back and watch the uproar unfold

 

[bkmonkey]

good idea. revenge always is a plate best served cold. no, i'm pretty much over it. i just though i would share the lameness with everyone else.

 

[Heliums]

When it really comes down to it. It's not what you know it's WHO you know.

 

[BSChemE]

Oh, I forgot to include the ending. So this person asks if I had received any admissions (at that point I hadn't yet) and I say no. They then say (in a very condescending tone) " don't worry, you'll probably get in next year. I guess your application just didn't have what it takes. Thanks a lot a##hole. I feel sorry for those of you who have to go to school with this person.

I really think the person was wrong for telling you that your application did not have what it takes. But, I think the person was trying to get back at you because you told him/her that they had no chance of getting in that particular school. So, really both of you were wrong. Besides, you never can tell who will get in once an interview is granted.

 

[bkmonkey]

I really think the person was wrong for telling you that your application did not have what it takes. But, I think the person was trying to get back at you because you told him/her that they had no chance of getting in that particular school. So, really both of you were wrong. Besides, you never can tell who will get in once an interview is granted.

The "you'll never get in here" was my internal thought. I wouldn't ever tell somebody that to their face. But you're right, you never know who will get in.

 

[g3pro]

That just seems unbelievable, it's so ridiculous. I am not doubting your credibility, just expressing my disbelief!

There are so many times when people in my community will say, "Duh, you're so going to get into School X, your father's very important there!" And it's annoying, because there's just as good a chance that I won't get in, and not only that, but it's quite self-deprecrating to live life thinking that you are a physician because of who your father is. I don't want that kind of stigma.

Replace "relative was an adcom" with "is black" and you understand what AA is all about. 👎

 

[Gleevec]

Replace "relative was an adcom" with "is black" and you understand what AA is all about. 👎

Or replace "is black" with "relative was an adcom" or "is a rich donor" and you understand what legacy admissions is all about 👎

 

[GBFKicks]

Replace "relative was an adcom" with "is black" and you understand what AA is all about. 👎

Not quite--- there are positives aspects of accepting URMs, but I can't see any positives in accepting someone based on whether one's family member has gone to the school or not.... or how rich a person is.

 

[ms2209]

Not quite--- there are positives aspects of accepting URMs, but I can't see any positives in accepting someone based on whether one's family member has gone to the school or not.... or how rich a person is.

Agreed. Legacy is far, far worse than AA (IMO).

Anyway, I think it's funny how every single secondary asks what school your parents went to, and then at the bottom they have a disclaimer that says "This plays no part in the admissions process whatsoever" - umm...then why do you want to know?

 

[Howard Roark]

I just love how in general a lot of the same people violently opposed to AA seem a-ok with legacy admissions. 😕

😱 End both practices!!!!!!!!!!! 😱

 

[skiz knot]

Not quite--- there are positives aspects of accepting URMs, but I can't see any positives in accepting someone based on whether one's family member has gone to the school or not.... or how rich a person is.

I was gonna post something with the exact same theme. Maybe it has something to do with going to school where there are a lot of minorities (me and GBF went to UIC) and seing the benefits of a multicultural learning environment. Seeing the difficulties faced by the students here who have to work to support themselves and family, who are 1st generation americans, etc... really shows the need to give people a chance, who might not otherwise have one.

 

[leechy]

I just love how in general a lot of the same people violently opposed to AA seem a-ok with legacy admissions. 😕

Were there posters on this thread who oppose AA but support legacy admissions? Hmmm... I must have missed something (probably all those AA threads i didn't pore over). But I totally agree - opposing both AA and legacies is understandable; opposing legacies but supporting AA is also understandable; but opposing AA and supporting legacies is just weird. Or elitist. I got into a discussion once with a person who held that view (that legacies were necessary because they brought money into the university, but that AA should be ended for the usual reasons people bring up)... it just confused the hell out of me.

Anyway, back to the OP's question: yes, I do think legacy plays a role in med school admissions, for at least some schools. I know of two people whose acceptances into prestigious med schools (given their stats and ECs) only make sense when you take into account the fact that they were legacies. Yeah, I know, I think it sucks too. Too bad we're not in charge of the universe.

 

[bkmonkey]

Too bad we're not in charge of the universe.

Shucks, maybe you can figure that out. There's a lot of stuff to fix. We'll start with legacies though...

 

[Gillette2005]

I know a kid who didn't get in anywhere, but he got an interview at John's Hopkins...oh wait, his dad went there. It figures.

 

[babyface]

My parents are friends with a physician who we learned got accepted to a major Chicago medical school with questionable qualifications. It just so happend that his father went there and was a SIGNIFICANT contributer ($10000+)...granted this was about 20 years ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of thing still went on...

err....does his name happen to be Feinberg?

 

[PrettyMz4Christ]

A friend of a friend just got into OHSU with a 25 MCAT (non-URM), his brother is a doctor there (their dad is also a doctor, don't know where he went to school).

yeesh. thank you for making that distinction. 🙄

 

[Wrigleyville]

Schools take this into consideration in the sense that they think you'd be more likely to attend the school if offered a spot.

 

[g3pro]

Not quite--- there are positives aspects of accepting URMs, but I can't see any positives in accepting someone based on whether one's family member has gone to the school or not.... or how rich a person is.

How about helping poor students with scholarships? Ever think about that one? Nooooooo, let's get rid of the people who donate money and their children. The people who contribute the most money to help the school financially should not be given preference in admissions!!! 😡




🙄

 

[GBFKicks]

How about helping poor students with scholarships? Ever think about that one? Nooooooo, let's get rid of the people who donate money and their children. The people who contribute the most money to help the school financially should not be given preference in admissions!!! 😡




🙄

The people that donate money should do so out of desire to see their alma mater or any other instition improve medical education and the medical field in general. They should do so because kindness and good intentions. The point of donating money should never be to help their children get into medical school. I would be ashamed if I even thought that I got into medical school because my parents donated money.

Also, it's called a donation... if you gain a seat in medical school, it's called a purchase.

Truly, if you donate something, you should not expect anything in return but a sincere thanks. Knowing that you helped a good cause should be gratification enough.

 

[g3pro]

The people that donate money should do so out of desire to see their alma mater or any other instition improve medical education and the medical field in general. They should do so because kindness and good intentions. The point of donating money should never be to help their children get into medical school. I would be ashamed if I even thought that I got into medical school because my parents donated money.

Also, it's called a donation... if you gain a seat in medical school, it's called a purchase.

Truly, if you donate something, you should not expect anything in return but a sincere thanks. Knowing that you helped a good cause should be gratification enough.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works in the real world. Sure, graduates of schools should only donate because they loved the school and want to help in any way possible. Schools have now begun to rely on donations from graduates so much that if they do anything to stop that flow of money (such as rejecting slightly underqualified legacies), they will have some serious problems. Why alienate the base which helps you operate?

Now you may find this offensive and say "how could people just donate money and expect to get something in return???" Then don't patronize the organizations that do this and go to a public school! But to complain that legacies are being accepted just because that's wrong and they don't deserve it shows that you don't understand the full situation.

How about this: attend a private medical school with some sort of financial aid/scholarship and see if you feel bad about the whole donation/purchase thing. 😉

 

[AtomKr]

The only experience I had with legacy admissions was my friend. His dad is a dean of something at a medical school.

My friend is smart, but he had relatively no volunteer experience or exposure (besides one summer spent with his dad in radiology), no research, average grades for our university.

He was accepted to his dad's school without ever applying (no AMCAS or anything). He was also awarded a full scholarship plus 10,000 stipend for living expenses (again without any formal application). His spot was simply promised by another dean long before application time. He took the MCAT as a formality (he was already accepted and awarded the scholarship) and scored somewhat below average, and also did not manage to sqeeze his B.A degree into four years so he's taking an extra semester.

Now, my friend will do just fine in med school and be a good doctor; it's not that he's underqualified by any means. I'm happy for his success, because he is a great guy and works hard. But part of me wonders if someone else might have deserved/needed that scholarship more (considering his parent's combined income is about a million per year, I think the stipend was kind of unnecessary.) Also, the lack of any formal application process bothered me.

This school is not just some low-tier school, it's one of the top minority medical schools in the country. After this experience, I believe that legacies make a HUGE difference in admissions/scholarships to medical school, whether it's right or not.

 

[Gleevec]

First of all a majority of financial aid is provided directly through the government. So private-endowed scholarships represent a small fraction of aid.

Secondly, this is the whole point of AA. Rich people can buy their way into any school they want. We have gone from a meritocracy to an aristocracy. AA is to even the playing field that is already unbalanced by the wealthy.

Im not a huge fan of either, but if you make me choose one, I would choose AA, because that is at least correcting for past injustices. Legacy is just a formalization of the increasingly aristrocratic nature of higher education.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works in the real world. Sure, graduates of schools should only donate because they loved the school and want to help in any way possible. Schools have now begun to rely on donations from graduates so much that if they do anything to stop that flow of money (such as rejecting slightly underqualified legacies), they will have some serious problems. Why alienate the base which helps you operate?

Now you may find this offensive and say "how could people just donate money and expect to get something in return???" Then don't patronize the organizations that do this and go to a public school! But to complain that legacies are being accepted just because that's wrong and they don't deserve it shows that you don't understand the full situation.

How about this: attend a private medical school with some sort of financial aid/scholarship and see if you feel bad about the whole donation/purchase thing. 😉

 

[Gleevec]

Now, my friend will do just fine in med school and be a good doctor; it's not that he's underqualified by any means. I'm happy for his success, because he is a great guy and works hard. But part of me wonders if someone else might have deserved/needed that scholarship more (considering his parent's combined income is about a million per year, I think the stipend was kind of unnecessary.) Also, the lack of any formal application process bothered me.

That's the thing though. There aren't that many spots at medical schools. Accepting 5 legacies out of 100 students in a class is a huge deal for med schools. Accepting 50 out of 10000 students in a class is less problematic, though still fundamentally wrong.

Im sure there were students who got rejected from the school who probably were more qualified than he is, and that there are top applicants at the school that were more deserving of the scholarship.

I dunno, at least for me, I would be extremely embarassed to attend a school at which my parents were prominent faculty, because no matter what there would always be the question of nepotism-- so much so that I would probably not even apply to that school for that very reason alone.

 

[g3pro]

I would choose AA, because that is at least correcting for past injustices.

 

[W222]

I heard of one very interesting admission decision from a friend of mine. His roomate in college wanted to go to medical school and this person's Daddy just happened to be a Clinical proff at med school X. Well, he applied and got in with barely reasonable numbers for this school and no relavent ECs. Just goes to show this sort of thing still exists. The kid even had the balls to defer a year so he could "hang out" before med school.

A friend of my family was helping me prepare my college applications when I was in high school. She kept telling me I should apply to one particular Ivy and that she got in there because of her father's help. She was a mediocre student (mostly Cs) but she did publish two books while in her teens. This one school was very impressed by her published works but she also said it helped that her father attended both undergrad and medical school there, and that he was now a prof of medicine. Her help during undergrad application time didnt give me the leg up I needed, I was weeded out after a couple interviews.

 

[Gleevec]

LOL. You know my feelings on how I think AA should be socioeconomic. But if push comes to shove, and I couldnt choose neither or socioeconomic AA, I would most definitely pick AA simply for historical reasons.

 

[stinkycheese]

I heard of one very interesting admission decision from a friend of mine. His roomate in college wanted to go to medical school and this person's Daddy just happened to be a Clinical proff at med school X. Well, he applied and got in with barely reasonable numbers for this school and no relavent ECs. Just goes to show this sort of thing still exists. The kid even had the balls to defer a year so he could "hang out" before med school.

I just don't believe this thing happens very often. Think of how many prospective medical students have parents who are also physicians. If everyone who has a parent or family friend affiliated with a med school got in, then the classes would be full, each year, of nobody but these kids. Harvard has a faculty of tens of thousands... I'm sure at least 100 kids/relatives of faculty apply each year. Yet, you don't see all these kids in the class.

I know this happens sometimes, but I doubt it happens as much as you all think.

 

[W222]

In my friend's MS1 class there were four people (out of 130) whose parent(s) were physicians/proffesor in the school of medicine. That is a damn good proportion of the local community would ya say.

 

[stinkycheese]

In my friend's MS1 class there were four people (out of 130) whose parent(s) were physicians/proffesor in the school of medicine. That is a damn good proportion of the local community would ya say.

Do you know their stats? Just being the child of a professor does not mean that's all it took to get them in. I WANT to go to school where my dad is a professor because I want to be at home. Just because I'm a "legacy" doesn't mean I'm not qualified, and the same goes for other legacies. If anything, many times children of physicians are more aware of the kind of lifestyle physicians lead, and are more understanding of the sacrifices necessary to become a physician. Perhaps this understanding comes through in interviews and is a positive.

It's not all about legacy. 🙄