Does legacy have a substantial affect on admission?

[skiz knot]

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err....does his name happen to be Feinberg?

My Fiancee used to hang out with one of the pritzker's back in the day. I wish she hadn't lost contact with him before I was applying to school there 😛

 

[Ypo.]

 

[Ypo.]

Well, in my opinion it does have some influence- but unless your qualified (and a resident of that state)- it won't do much to help you.
As with Rogue Leader- my mother went to a medical school that I applied to- my MCAT scores were slightly above average and my GPA was right there- but I was applying as an out of state interview- I got waitlisted at the post-secondary application and pre-interview stage- but never was interviewed. Of course, I did apply in like, November- but although I think that "legacy" stinks really bad- I admit I had hoped it would have helped me more.
I think they adcoms think that if you have a doctor in the family- you know what its about and have a good chance of sticking med school out. My situation was kind of unique- my mom went back to medical school when I was a teenager- so I really got a good look at what its like (not pretty- but incredibly fulfilling).

 

[velo]

Unfortunately, that's not how it works in the real world.

time for g3pro to tell us how the real world works 😉

 

[Mistress S]

yeesh. thank you for making that distinction. 🙄

I should have known it was only a matter of time before this turned into an AA debate. 🙄 Look, including that info wasn't intended as a commentary on AA, which I am ambivalent about. Whether you like AA or not, the fact is that being a URM does affect the type of MCAT/GPA one can have and still be accepted. It is not so unusual for a URM to be accepted with an MCAT of 25, but this is much less common for a white male. I'm not going to bother finding links to demonstrate this, if you don't believe me the statistics are on the AAMC website and have been posted many times on this forum as well. So yes, it was an important distinction to make in order for the anectode I was explaining to be relevant, and you're welcome.

 

[Catalyst]

I'm not sure exactly what this will add to this conversation (I'm too lazy to read all the posts in the thread), but I remember reading in Frank Wu's "Yellow" that not too long ago, legacy students applying to Harvard undergrad used to have a 50% acceptance rate. This phenomenon seems to have decreased in recent years, but I'd be willing to bet that when it comes to Ivy League medical schools, being a legacy applicant helps also.

 

[Gleevec]

It is not so unusual for a URM to be accepted with an MCAT of 25, but this is much less common for a white male.

Actually, a white male with an MCAT of 25 would probably have no trouble getting into medical school if:

1. His parent is a faculty/PTPer there or is friends with one
2. His parents are rich and donated a lot of money to the school
3. His parents are powerful members of the community.

 

[stinkycheese]

Actually, a white male with an MCAT of 25 would probably have no trouble getting into medical school if:

1. His parent is a faculty/PTPer there or is friends with one
2. His parents are rich and donated a lot of money to the school
3. His parents are powerful members of the community.

That is such bull****. I know for a fact that one of the professors at my dad's medical school had his son apply and because of his sub-par stats, he did NOT get in.

Did it ever occur to you guys that legacies who get in are probably of average matriculant stats, and maybe being a legacy was just a tiebreaker between them and a similarly-qualified non-legacy applicant? Legacies aren't getting in with 2.5's and 25's, they're getting in with 3.4-3.5's and 28-30's.

 

[Gleevec]

That is such bull****. I know for a fact that one of the professors at my dad's medical school had his son apply and because of his sub-par stats, he did NOT get in.

Did it ever occur to you guys that legacies who get in are probably of average matriculant stats, and maybe being a legacy was just a tiebreaker between them and a similarly-qualified non-legacy applicant? Legacies aren't getting in with 2.5's and 25's, they're getting in with 3.4-3.5's and 28-30's.

Bullcrap stinkycheese you dont know what youre talking about. How the hell would you know the cases Im referring to anyway? And how the hell can you say "Legacies aren't getting in with 2.5's and 25's, they're getting in with 3.4-3.5's and 28-30's." Do you know 100% of the cases? I dont claim to, but I do know of specific cases in the 25ish range.

And yes, some legacies have average matriculant stats and got in, just like some URMS have average matriculant stats and got in. Want a cookie?

But yes, there have definitely been 25ish MCATers getting in from legacy.

And Im getting really sick of these anti-AA but pro-legacy hypocrites who basically want their rich pasty white arse to be able to buy their way into medical school because they're too dumb to get in otherwise, but are racist enough to not want to give people with an ACTUAL DISADVANTAGE in life a chance. And that doesnt even count socioeconomic disadvantages, which to me are the biggest deal (regardless of race).

Wow, to think that I would be arguing for AA. But the hypocrisy is being said by some of the pro-legacy anti-AA bigots is just too much. 🙄

 

[stinkycheese]

And Im getting really sick of these anti-AA but pro-legacy hypocrites who basically want their rich pasty white arse to be able to buy their way into medical school because they're too dumb to get in otherwise, but are racist enough to not want to give people with an ACTUAL DISADVANTAGE in life a chance. And that doesnt even count socioeconomic disadvantages, which to me are the biggest deal (regardless of race).

Wow, to think that I would be arguing for AA. But the hypocrisy is being said by some of the pro-legacy anti-AA bigots is just too much. 🙄

You had better not be referring to me, because I have never posted one single anti-AA statement on this board. Nor have I posted any pro-legacy statements. I just think that people should not assume legacies only get in because of who they are, not what they accomplish.

Don't you dare EVER refer to me as a 'hypocrit who basically wants her rich pasty white arse to be able to buy her way into medical school because she's to dumb to get in otherwise' ever, ever, ever, again. I am not stupid and I do not intend to buy my way into ANY medical school. HOW DARE YOU make such a comment about me based on one post about legacy admissions. You are being nasty for no damn reason. I am intelligent and I will get in on my own merit, thanks, and if you are determined to think that people like me will only get in because their daddy will be paying off the school, then you're sadly mistaken.

 

[Ypo.]

That is such bull****. I know for a fact that one of the professors at my dad's medical school had his son apply and because of his sub-par stats, he did NOT get in.

Did it ever occur to you guys that legacies who get in are probably of average matriculant stats, and maybe being a legacy was just a tiebreaker between them and a similarly-qualified non-legacy applicant? Legacies aren't getting in with 2.5's and 25's, they're getting in with 3.4-3.5's and 28-30's.

Well I hope that helps me

 

[Ypo.]

I have to agree with Limburger here- she didn't make any anti-AA comments- although others may have. I don't know about this legacy thing- but it didn't get my middle class pasty white arse into my mommy's medical school even though I had a 28 and a 3.5 so I would tend to agree with stinky cheese- it MAY tip the scale with similar candidates. But, ivy league schools might have more nepotism- because more money usually means more corruption.
I don't even think being a "minority" helps if you don't have the stats- so everyone that gets in worked hard.

 

[Ypo.]

That just seems unbelievable, it's so ridiculous. I am not doubting your credibility, just expressing my disbelief!

There are so many times when people in my community will say, "Duh, you're so going to get into School X, your father's very important there!" And it's annoying, because there's just as good a chance that I won't get in, and not only that, but it's quite self-deprecrating to live life thinking that you are a physician because of who your father is. I don't want that kind of stigma.

I totally agree with you here, stinky cheese. I heard that so much because my mom's a doctor- and that will really help you get in blah blah blah- Well no I didn't get accepted and all those people look stupid. And if i ever DO get accepted- I'll know its because I did it myself, so thats a really comforting thought (plus all those people can't think I just got in because of my Mom because I have suffered a humiliating rejection already).

 

[bkmonkey]

That is such bull****. I know for a fact that one of the professors at my dad's medical school had his son apply and because of his sub-par stats, he did NOT get in.

Did it ever occur to you guys that legacies who get in are probably of average matriculant stats, and maybe being a legacy was just a tiebreaker between them and a similarly-qualified non-legacy applicant? Legacies aren't getting in with 2.5's and 25's, they're getting in with 3.4-3.5's and 28-30's.

Um...yeah, I think I made a post about this earlier. This guy got into school with around a 2.7 and a 27. Umm...I think you'd better adjust your range...

 

[stinkycheese]

Um...yeah, I think I made a post about this earlier. This guy got into school with around a 2.7 and a 27. Umm...I think you'd better adjust your range...

I understand that this happens in rare cases, but I would be shocked if that were the case in most legacy admissions.

 

[bkmonkey]

I think it depends on the circumstances of the legacy. If somebody's parents go to a given school, maybe it helps a little bit. If somebody's parents dump an as$load of money into the school, socialize with lots of members on the adcom, etc. I think it makes a huge difference. You can't say people don't look out for each other. In this world, it's often who you know, not what you know. If you don't believe that you're seriously naive.

 

[stinkycheese]

I think it depends on the circumstances of the legacy. If somebody's parents go to a given school, maybe it helps a little bit. If somebody's parents dump an as$load of money into the school, socialize with lots of members on the adcom, etc. I think it makes a huge difference. You can't say people don't look out for each other. In this world, it's often who you know, not what you know. If you don't believe that you're seriously naive.

I don't think it's naivete, I think its faith that people more often than not will do the right thing. As I have said before, my father is a full professor at Med School X, he is also an alum, an annual donor (not that much money, though), and half the ad com members are good friends with my parents. These Ad Com members have told me, straight up, that they will not be a part of the deliberations on my candidacy, and that knowing all those people probably won't help at all, because people will be hell-bent on determining whether I deserve a spot, or whether I'm getting it because of my dad. They told me that tons of kids with connections apply every year, and they don't take all, or even most, of them. They told me all of this without my asking them, so don't think I was trying to milk any connections. They are interested in my success, but won't have a part in it because they have... wait for it... integrity.

That's one Ad Com with its head on straight. I believe there are many more.

 

[GBFKicks]

Unfortunately, that's not how it works in the real world. Sure, graduates of schools should only donate because they loved the school and want to help in any way possible. Schools have now begun to rely on donations from graduates so much that if they do anything to stop that flow of money (such as rejecting slightly underqualified legacies), they will have some serious problems. Why alienate the base which helps you operate?

Now you may find this offensive and say "how could people just donate money and expect to get something in return???" Then don't patronize the organizations that do this and go to a public school! But to complain that legacies are being accepted just because that's wrong and they don't deserve it shows that you don't understand the full situation.

How about this: attend a private medical school with some sort of financial aid/scholarship and see if you feel bad about the whole donation/purchase thing. 😉

I'm sorry, but I don't think you made any points in this whole post, so I don't really know how to respond to that.

A) Just because "that's how the real world works" doesn't mean that it's right in any way.
B) OK, schools rely on donations... so what, that doesn't mean that people that donate money should have an advantage. At what point does one get an advantage--how much money do you have to pay to gain admissions to a certain school? Is it $30k to Podunk Med or $750k to Harvard. The point is, if schools didn't partake in the practice of giving people admission based on donations, then donors would not expect it. Alienating them wouldn't even be an issue
C) I believe I do understand the full situation, and I don't find the institution offesive... I find it shameful. What a disgrace to be accepted because daddy could pay for your admission.
D) I would like to go to a public school, however, if I went to a private school and got some kind of scholarhips I'd be thankful. I don't know what else to say about that. I hope to be able to donate some money to my alma mater to return the favor. Maybe someone can benefit from my benevelance.

 

[Harps]

Legacy doesn't help...............well it didn't help me. In fact, I got an immediate rejection from that school 😕 I think legacy only helps CERTAIN ppl 😀

-Harps

 

[bkmonkey]

I don't think it's naivete, I think its faith that people more often than not will do the right thing.

I wish I could say the same, but I'm not feeling the faith anymore...

 

[Amicus]

Gleevec you have always been level headed but on this issue you are confusing me.

You say Legacy is comparable to AA in terms of magnitude. If this were true the averages of white applicants and black MCAT and GPA would be similar.
The type of favor that SOME schools give to children of graduates is quite minor. The documents on admissions UMich had to turn over to the supreme court showed that 5 points were given to a rich white son of an alumnus compared to 40 for a poor black student, out of 150. You would be right to say that some schoold may favor lagacy more, and in the case of massive contributions the regular legacy system if it exists my be bypassed all together. But you know that of the few high rolling donors, fewer still have kids applying to med school any given year. Compare that to to the massive slack all 4-5 THOUSAND minorities get cut each application cycle and the scope and scale of legacy admissions is truly small.

No this does not dimindish the wrongness of the practice on principle alone. But to argue that AA is simple a means of balancing the effect of legacy admission is like putting double D-cups on your 5 foot 3 girlfriend to blance out her frame. Its overkill.
The reason the black white averages are so far apart is that legacy is simply not that big of a player in white admissions, either in absolute number admitted or in the degree of slack cut.