Does medical school ranking really matter?

[snooper]

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Well, for cardiology, you'd first do IM, which is not terribly competitive. So, as an MD from a 40-50 ranked program, you should match to a higher ranked IM residency. E.g. Baylor IM is ranked 22nd by US News, but their residents don't seem to have attended UG and med school of those ranks. Ditto according to Beckers, Pennsylvania Hospital is top 20, but they have lots of DOs

 

[doctorsharukhan]

Well, for cardiology, you'd first do IM, which is not terribly competitive. So, as an MD from a 40-50 ranked program, you should match to a higher ranked IM residency. E.g. Baylor IM is ranked 22nd by US News, but their residents don't seem to have attended UG and med school of those ranks. Ditto according to Beckers, Pennsylvania Hospital is top 20, but they have lots of DOs

That's a penn partner/community hospital. There are cleveland clinic "partner" IM programs that are full of IMGs (Caribbean). These are not the same caliber as the main cleveland clinic campus, they are just borrowing the name. That name adds 0 value in obtaining fellowship. The main cleveland clinic program has plenty of competitive fellowships (GI/cards) and anyone from there applying to other programs will be sought after

Categorical Residents - Penn Medicine

Meet the Catagorical residents of the Internal Medicine program.

www.pennmedicine.org

Penn med is 100% MD. They have a handful of FMGs but will never touch a DO/ Caribbean IMG

 

[snooper]

That's a penn partner/community hospital. There are cleveland clinic "partner" IM programs that are full of IMGs (Caribbean). These are not the same caliber as the main cleveland clinic campus, they are just borrowing the name. That name adds 0 value in obtaining fellowship. The main cleveland clinic program has plenty of competitive fellowships (GI/cards) and anyone from there applying to other programs will be sought after

Categorical Residents - Penn Medicine

Meet the Catagorical residents of the Internal Medicine program.

www.pennmedicine.org

Penn med is 100% MD. They have a handful of FMGs but will never touch a DO/ Caribbean IMG

Correct, which is why I said that the ranking is from Beckers, Doximity similar. Here's where their graduates go for fellowships: https://www.pennmedicine.org/for-he...internal-medicine/program/about-our-graduates

And then we have the "REAL" Penn IM residents: https://www.pennmedicine.org/depart...ogram/categorical/categorical-residents#tab-3 You may notice a fair representation of mid- to lower tier med schools.

 

[doctorsharukhan]

Correct, which is why I said that the ranking is from Beckers, Doximity similar. Here's where their graduates go for fellowships: https://www.pennmedicine.org/for-he...internal-medicine/program/about-our-graduates

And then we have the "REAL" Penn IM residents: https://www.pennmedicine.org/depart...ogram/categorical/categorical-residents#tab-3 You may notice a fair representation of mid- to lower tier med schools.

Do we know who the GI/Cards people are? Could be the MDs for all we know

 

[snooper]

Sure, they're probably MDs. However, OP asked about the importance of the med school ranking and going into cardiology. I answered that IM residency, prerequisite for cardiology, at a higher tier program is definitely possible from a lower ranked program. Case in point: Penn (HUP) as well as Pennsy + cardiology.

 

[doctorsharukhan]

Sure, they're probably MDs. However, OP asked about the importance of the med school ranking and going into cardiology. I answered that IM residency, prerequisite for cardiology, at a higher tier program is definitely possible from a lower ranked program. Case in point: Penn (HUP) as well as Pennsy + cardiology.

Yeah absolutely. I know plenty of Ross, AUA, St. Matthews, SGU etc doing cards/PCCM/GI - it's just much much much less likely and some got into community programs and had to essentially compete with 10 other residents for 1 spot

 

[Amed]

SDN has a very bizarre addiction to prestige (just head on over to preallo and you’ll see at least dozens of threads involving premeds, med students, fancy attendings and adcoms heavily fawning over HMS, Hopkins, Penn, Columbia etc etc)

School name matters but SDN exaggerates this out of proportion as if going to a low tier basically prevents you from matching to excellent and top tier residencies and programs, which is completely ridiculous

School name helps in simplifying things and not having to worry about having to straight honor everything and getting high quality research/ECs + fighting for AOA. Top tier schools have huge alumni networks in far places that’ll help you match wherever and whatever you want. But going to a low tier school doesn’t restrict you, it just makes things more difficult just because of competition alone and the removal of objective metrics like Step 1

I agree with this statement.

 

[doyouhaveaflag]

I'm a resident in plastic surgery and have been involved in multiple rank order meetings, and medical school prestige definitely matters. Additionally, with step 1 now pass/fail, people from multiple programs I've talked to are saying it will become one of the most important factors in the pre-interview selection process.

 

[Manatee3]

I personally think you should go to the cheapest school you get accepted to, unless you are fabulously wealthy already or have a free ride somewhere. The education is pretty standardized throughout the country.

 

[Lawpy]

I personally think you should go to the cheapest school you get accepted to, unless you are fabulously wealthy already or have a free ride somewhere. The education is pretty standardized throughout the country.

Unfortunately, if someone is deciding between a T20 school with debt or a state school for free, they should go with T20. I know i have railed against SDN’s prestige obsession but this thread has clearly demonstrated residency application reviewers are heavily emphasizing school prestige. That means the debt is a necessary evil to keep all options open, especially if in the future Step 2 mania kicks in and sends that exam to P/F as well.

 

[7331poas]

I personally think you should go to the cheapest school you get accepted to, unless you are fabulously wealthy already or have a free ride somewhere. The education is pretty standardized throughout the country.

Thats true regarding education, but the strength of your education isnt important to residency programs.

 

[Lawpy]

Also this thread unfortunately further illustrates why going to the DO route is a very bad idea especially if you have an US MD option in hand

I wish i’m in the residency selection committee at some big program or competitive specialty so that i can actively fight against the prestige emphasis but i’m too junior at this stage

 

[Redpancreas]

I'm seeking advice about medical school rankings. I do not have an interest in academic medicine, but am potentially interested in specialties such as cardiology, pediatric ENT, ENT and pediatric cardiology.

If you want to pursue a competitive specialty does it matter if you go to a Top 30 vs Top 50 vs Top 100-120 school? Why or why not?

I do not have a physician mentor or physicians in my family so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, all the tiers matter. It's much easier to crack anything at a top 30 than at an average MD school.

Insight into Pre-Medical Decisions from a Resident (factors in choosing a school, life outlook, etc)

Hey SDN Pre-Med Community, I'm now a resident physician and would like to type up a bit about some things I wished I'd known when applying. Forgive me if some of this stuff is now obvious. I know the stakes get higher every year and as a result, pre-meds are becoming more and more knowledgeable...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[GB4ME]

Neurology and Neurosurgery

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

I'm seeing mostly hopkins, stanford, columbia, washington (st louis) for med school. The FMGs like AUB (Beirut) is on the same caliber as MIT (for undergrad) and also considered the best med school in the middle east. I suspect the same for the Chinese and Spain med schools (and those people likely had connections + Pumped out pubs)

Also, NSG is very self-selecting. Lots of people with derm stats would rather do derm even if they COULD do nsg. The lifestyle pushes a lot of people away. I mean heck, if I put in a bit of extra effort I could probably match ENT/ophtho but I hate surgery and I'd rather be a "cog in the machine" doing anesthesia/rads with minimal effort to match

Point is even at such a selective place ppl can get in. Heck my dermatologist has an office in the richest area of Texas and she did her MD in Kansas then matched dermatology at Texas Tech. Now she has her own Botox factory pumping out Karens.

 

[BioPsychotic]

I feel like almost everyone knows that rankings matter. It's naive to say that they don't. If they didn't matter, they wouldn't exist. People should definitely attempt to gain admission to highly ranked schools and consider ranking when deciding which medical school to attend.

However, medicine is a field that is uniquely egalitarian, in that you can succeed regardless of the ranking of the school you went to. Hopkins Neurosurgery is a different story, but you don't need to go to Hopkins Neurosurgery to be successful.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Point is even at such a selective place ppl can get in. Heck my dermatologist has an office in the richest area of Texas and she did her MD in Kansas then matched dermatology at Texas Tech. Now she has her own Botox factory pumping out Karens.

As the other poster already pointed out, most of those people are from top programs. Stellar people punch up, but that’s the exception, not the rule.

I’m not sure why there’s so much back and forth on this. We have people in this thread who review applicants for residency who agree with my original post as well as a poster admitting to basically falling backwards into one of the most competitive fields because of the name of his school.

It’s certainly not everything. But it’s a big deal.

 

[nimbus]

Go to the school that matches the highest prestige for the lowest cost. In a P/F world, you might need more things to make you a favorable applicant. Unless you have a Harvard, UCSF, or Hopkins in your options. I can't speak to that level of prestige since I did not get an interview at either one when I applied some 4 years back. That said, I also would not pick a USNews T15-20 over a T30-50 (...or whatever) with a full ride. But that's just me. Academics does not pay as well and you'll be straddled with that debt for a long time.

Edited to add: People in community practice are much less likely to GAF about the prestige of your medical school compared to your efficiency and whether or not you're a good partner to work with.

Yeah it matters a lot more in terms of getting training positions (residency, fellowships) than it does after training is complete.

 

[lemonxlime]

Yes, all the tiers matter. It's much easier to crack anything at a top 30 than at an average MD school.

Insight into Pre-Medical Decisions from a Resident (factors in choosing a school, life outlook, etc)

Hey SDN Pre-Med Community, I'm now a resident physician and would like to type up a bit about some things I wished I'd known when applying. Forgive me if some of this stuff is now obvious. I know the stakes get higher every year and as a result, pre-meds are becoming more and more knowledgeable...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Alright this post is awesome. I'm trying to decide between 6 schools and will keep your advice in mind.

 

[Goro]

Ranking? Only to status-obsessed pre-meds and medical school deans.

 

[GB4ME]

I'm a resident in plastic surgery and have been involved in multiple rank order meetings, and medical school prestige definitely matters. Additionally, with step 1 now pass/fail, people from multiple programs I've talked to are saying it will become one of the most important factors in the pre-interview selection process.

See I assume you mean with all other attributes equal. I’d hope you aren’t choosing a Harvard candidate with a 206 step score over a UTMB candidate with a 249 step.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I'm a resident in plastic surgery and have been involved in multiple rank order meetings, and medical school prestige definitely matters. Additionally, with step 1 now pass/fail, people from multiple programs I've talked to are saying it will become one of the most important factors in the pre-interview selection process.

which schools specifically are considered prestigious in those meetings you attended?

 

[deleted1095841]

For this discussion, are we considering US News rankings, or the US News PD Survey rankings which factor into the overall rankings but are quite different?

 

[lemonxlime]

For this discussion, are we considering US News rankings, or the US News PD Survey rankings which factor into the overall rankings but are quite different?

Which ones matter?

 

[expicept]

N=1 but as someone going through the application cycle and applying IM, I certainly believe medical school prestige matters. I attend your stereotypical mid-tier state school, applied with everything I could realistically bring to the table (Great steps, AOA, all H, research, connected letter writers, etc...), and only got interviews at a couple of the t20 programs. Compare that to my college roommate who attends a t10 medical school and interviewed at most of the t20 IM residencies, not to mention interviewing at all the t4 programs. Quite the feat considering they'll be the first to tell you they slacked off through medical school. While I am by no means upset with how my interview season went, I can't help but think attending a mid-tier medical school did cap my results to a point. Not to mention my interviews at the more prestigious residencies, most of my co-applicants were from the historically "elite medical schools."

This is not true of all specialties though. I have classmates with similar resume's that applied to other specialties and coming from a mid-tier program did not limit them one bit. So to OP or anyone reading this in the future, I would argue that prestige probably doesn't matter; however, if you're goal is to attend the best IM residency on the way to attending the top GI or cardiology fellowship, it is in your best interest to attend the most prestigious medical school you get accepted into. Now if the question becomes does attending one of those residencies or fellowships is really worth it? Well, that's an entirely different story...

Spoiler

but probably not.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

N=1 but as someone going through the application cycle and applying IM, I certainly believe medical school prestige matters. I attend your stereotypical mid-tier state school, applied with everything I could realistically bring to the table (Great steps, AOA, all H, research, connected letter writers, etc...), and only got interviews at a couple of the t20 programs. Compare that to my college roommate who attends a t10 medical school and interviewed at most of the t20 IM residencies, not to mention interviewing at all the t4 programs. Quite the feat considering they'll be the first to tell you they slacked off through medical school. While I am by no means upset with how my interview season went, I can't help but think attending a mid-tier medical school did cap my results to a point. Not to mention my interviews at the more prestigious residencies, most of my co-applicants were from the historically "elite medical schools."

This is not true of all specialties though. I have classmates with similar resume's that applied to other specialties and coming from a mid-tier program did not limit them one bit. So to OP or anyone reading this in the future, I would argue that prestige probably doesn't matter; however, if you're goal is to attend the best IM residency on the way to attending the top GI or cardiology fellowship, it is in your best interest to attend the most prestigious medical school you get accepted into. Now if the question becomes does attending one of those residencies or fellowships is really worth it? Well, that's an entirely different story...

Spoiler

but probably not.

thanks for sharing. top IM residencies are notoriously prestige whor--es.

 

[i-doctor]

N=1 but as someone going through the application cycle and applying IM, I certainly believe medical school prestige matters. I attend your stereotypical mid-tier state school, applied with everything I could realistically bring to the table (Great steps, AOA, all H, research, connected letter writers, etc...), and only got interviews at a couple of the t20 programs. Compare that to my college roommate who attends a t10 medical school and interviewed at most of the t20 IM residencies, not to mention interviewing at all the t4 programs. Quite the feat considering they'll be the first to tell you they slacked off through medical school. While I am by no means upset with how my interview season went, I can't help but think attending a mid-tier medical school did cap my results to a point. Not to mention my interviews at the more prestigious residencies, most of my co-applicants were from the historically "elite medical schools."

This is not true of all specialties though. I have classmates with similar resume's that applied to other specialties and coming from a mid-tier program did not limit them one bit. So to OP or anyone reading this in the future, I would argue that prestige probably doesn't matter; however, if you're goal is to attend the best IM residency on the way to attending the top GI or cardiology fellowship, it is in your best interest to attend the most prestigious medical school you get accepted into. Now if the question becomes does attending one of those residencies or fellowships is really worth it? Well, that's an entirely different story...

Spoiler

but probably not.

Yes, nearly everyone in my T15 (actually maybe T10) med school got matched into their field of choice, including all the surgical subspecialties . Myself included (basically a slacker during med school).
Elitism still rules in the U.S. medical field, as much as we like to believe that we have developed a true meritocracy.

 

[pierty]

Ah, man. These posts never end.

This is a complicated question. Everyone - including PDs - value different qualities in candidates. Most value hard-workers over students from med schools they like or respect. Some do not like taking students from certain schools because of biases. Regardless, you won't know what it'll be for you until you submit your application years down the line. Side note - most users here are a minority of echoed-voices in medicine that hyper-focuses on perceived prestige. You might come across a PD that has the same mindset, but strictly from averages, you likely will not.

Also: rankings from US News are very rough, and the top 20 people use based off of that is a bad shorthand. There are a handful of programs - much less than 20 - that are oogled-over by most of academia, a bunch that are "strong programs," and others that are unknown. Most career-progressed physicians think of it like that, and not much else.

 

[lemonxlime]

Ah, man. These posts never end.

This is a complicated question. Everyone - including PDs - value different qualities in candidates. Most value hard-workers over students from med schools they like or respect. Some do not like taking students from certain schools because of biases. Regardless, you won't know what it'll be for you until you submit your application years down the line. Side note - most users here are a minority of echoed-voices in medicine that hyper-focuses on perceived prestige. You might come across a PD that has the same mindset, but strictly from averages, you likely will not.

Also: rankings from US News are very rough, and the top 20 people use based off of that is a bad shorthand. There are a handful of programs - much less than 20 - that are oogled-over by most of academia, a bunch that are "strong programs," and others that are unknown. Most career-progressed physicians think of it like that, and not much else.

Thanks! I'm just a pre-Med student trying to make a decision on where to go, so that's why I asked the question. I agree it's never ending and there's so many variables that come into play.

 

[Lawpy]

N=1 but as someone going through the application cycle and applying IM, I certainly believe medical school prestige matters. I attend your stereotypical mid-tier state school, applied with everything I could realistically bring to the table (Great steps, AOA, all H, research, connected letter writers, etc...), and only got interviews at a couple of the t20 programs. Compare that to my college roommate who attends a t10 medical school and interviewed at most of the t20 IM residencies, not to mention interviewing at all the t4 programs. Quite the feat considering they'll be the first to tell you they slacked off through medical school. While I am by no means upset with how my interview season went, I can't help but think attending a mid-tier medical school did cap my results to a point. Not to mention my interviews at the more prestigious residencies, most of my co-applicants were from the historically "elite medical schools."

This is not true of all specialties though. I have classmates with similar resume's that applied to other specialties and coming from a mid-tier program did not limit them one bit. So to OP or anyone reading this in the future, I would argue that prestige probably doesn't matter; however, if you're goal is to attend the best IM residency on the way to attending the top GI or cardiology fellowship, it is in your best interest to attend the most prestigious medical school you get accepted into. Now if the question becomes does attending one of those residencies or fellowships is really worth it? Well, that's an entirely different story...

Spoiler

but probably not.

This is very bizarre to me because good Steps/all honors/AOA is the effective recipe to get top tier IM invites in N = several from irl observations over the past few years. There could be something else going on but i don’t know you or your app so hard to say

 

[Banco]

Also: rankings from US News are very rough, and the top 20 people use based off of that is a bad shorthand. There are a handful of programs - much less than 20 - that are oogled-over by most of academia, a bunch that are "strong programs," and others that are unknown. Most career-progressed physicians think of it like that, and not much else.

This is a good point - a cutoff at "20" is completely arbitrary.

 

[deleted1095841]

There are a handful of programs - much less than 20 - that are oogled-over by most of academia, a bunch that are "strong programs," and others that are unknown. Most career-progressed physicians think of it like that, and not much else.

Which programes are oogled? Since there are less than 20, it would be nice to see a list.

 

[Ganon]

Which programes are oogled? Since there are less than 20, it would be nice to see a list.

Part of the problem is that the "list" is subjective. There's so many variables that it's tough to say one is definitely *better* than another when you get to a certain caliber... Eventually it's more like, they are better at different facets, and how those facets are ranked depends on your philosophy and what you are looking for.

 

[deleted1095841]

Part of the problem is that the "list" is subjective. There's so many variables that it's tough to say one is definitely *better* than another when you get to a certain caliber... Eventually it's more like, they are better at different facets, and how those facets are ranked depends on your philosophy and what you are looking for.

You're right. But there's got to be some sort of consensus list that most of academia would agree on.

 

[jstwannagraduaaate!!!]

It matters if youre trying to become ent, optho, ortho, etc, but for fields like IM or rads etc not that much as long as it is a usmd. I know several GI and card attendings that attended residencies that many in this forum would turn their nose up to, but it had an in house fellowship deal and these attendings were very good at communicating and being nice to people (a trait that is surprisingly rare in medicine from what ive seen.....).

 

[Redpancreas]

It matters if youre trying to become ent, optho, ortho, etc, but for fields like IM or rads etc not that much as long as it is a usmd. I know several GI and card attendings that attended residencies that many in this forum would turn their nose up to, but it had an in house fellowship deal and these attendings were very good at communicating and being nice to people (a trait that is surprisingly rare in medicine from what ive seen.....).

Cards and GI are very easier to obtain at a top 30 US MD school. Go to one of those, hit within a SD of the national average on board exams and waltz into another top 30 IM residency, publish a case report or two and walk into Cards/GI as opposed to matching an MD residency as a DO, doing lots of research to overcome DO bias at the fellowship level. Sure, it's not difficult to match GI/Cards relatively, but sure takes a lot less effort over the course of the next 7 years.

 

[jstwannagraduaaate!!!]

Cards and GI are very easier to obtain at a top 30 US MD school. Go to one of those, hit within a SD of the national average on board exams and waltz into another top 30 IM residency, publish a case report or two and walk into Cards/GI as opposed to matching an MD residency as a DO, doing lots of research to overcome DO bias at the fellowship level. Sure, it's not difficult to match GI/Cards relatively, but sure takes a lot less effort over the course of the next 7 years.

As a student interested in those fields I agree. I go to a midtier state school and attendings have told me if I go to a midtier residency, publish a couple of research studies (they quoted 3-6), and be a good resident I should be fine, but it would be wayyyyy easier if I attended a top tier/30 school. One theory I have heard from IM attendings is the increased draw to fields like anes, rads, and surgical subspecialties means that there is a better chance for students to match at solid IM programs, and these programs would rank a "mid" student over a candidate who was clearly applying to ent and IM as a backup.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

You're right. But there's got to be some sort of consensus list that most of academia would agree on.

There isn’t. Because it’s subjective and extends beyond the typical Harvard, Hopkins, Penn crowd.

 

[Lawpy]

Part of the problem is that the "list" is subjective. There's so many variables that it's tough to say one is definitely *better* than another when you get to a certain caliber... Eventually it's more like, they are better at different facets, and how those facets are ranked depends on your philosophy and what you are looking for.

No one will ever deny going to HMS is prestigious. That alone is an objective quality. Same extends to Hopkins, Penn, Stanford, UCSF, Columbia and honestly the rest of T20 to varying degrees in US News Research rankings.

But what i don’t understand is… what’s the point of this thread exactly? Because if we’re focusing on prestige flexing and matching to the best of the best, the clear answer is going to MGH/BWH because HMS severely overshadows everyone else in sheer research funding alone… and MGH/BWH favors their own as with many other programs linked to great schools.

 

[Ganon]

No one will ever deny going to HMS is prestigious. That alone is an objective quality. Same extends to Hopkins, Penn, Stanford, UCSF, Columbia and honestly the rest of T20 to varying degrees in US News Research rankings.

But what i don’t understand is… what’s the point of this thread exactly? Because if we’re focusing on prestige flexing and matching to the best of the best, the clear answer is going to MGH/BWH because HMS severely overshadows everyone else in sheer research funding alone… and MGH/BWH favors their own as with many other programs linked to great schools.

The answer to your question is that having the most research funding doesn’t automatically mean the best training for all scenarios.

The “top” programs are self-evident, but the conversation is what makes up the bottom half of the “top 20” that ends up actually being more like 30-40 depending on who you ask

 

[MD-in-waiting]

I think the way to think of it is more of a good thing is...more (better). More prestige = more better.

 

[Lawpy]

The answer to your question is that having the most research funding doesn’t automatically mean the best training for all scenarios.

The “top” programs are self-evident, but the conversation is what makes up the bottom half of the “top 20” that ends up actually being more like 30-40 depending on who you ask

The focus on prestige in this thread isn’t about the best training though, because there are quite a lot of places without the fancy brand name that have stellar training. Which is why this thread is coming across as a bit absurd to me

 

[pierty]

The focus on prestige in this thread isn’t about the best training though, because there are quite a lot of places without the fancy brand name that have stellar training. Which is why this thread is coming across as a bit absurd to me

These kinds of threads always are. I think this quote pulled from another one of these 1000+ threads boils it down nicely:

Even if it didn’t matter professionally, it’s kind of cool to tell people that you go to HMS, Stanford, jhu etc.

Some people want to feel important by surrounding themselves with important names, or places, that will validate them socially. The drive is limbic, not cortical. The billions of text characters spent on this just amount to people trying to justify to themselves why they are important, or why their strive to move up in their mental hierarchy is important.

 

[deleted1095841]

But what i don’t understand is… what’s the point of this thread exactly? Because if we’re focusing on prestige flexing and matching to the best of the best, the clear answer is going to MGH/BWH because HMS severely overshadows everyone else in sheer research funding alone… and MGH/BWH favors their own as with many other programs linked to great schools.

I believe there is a point, though it might not be the most high-yield thread out there.

If I am a premedical student:
Along with fit, finances, and location, the prestige of a school is a factor I would take into account.
This leads to two questions:
1. What weight should I give the prestige factor? (This is why so many people ask how important school prestige is.)
2. Which schools are prestigious? Many people use the US News rankings for this, but what most people I believe are looking for is something like "Great Tier", "Good Tier", "OK Tier", and "Try to Avoid Tier".

If I am a medical student:
1. Is the school I go to going to give me a strong shot of getting the residency I want? Or am I going to have to work extra-hard and fight an uphill battle?
2. When I rank schools I interview at for the match, prestige is a factor alongside the others (people, location, stipend, research opportunities, etc.).
2a. How much weight should be given to prestige?
2b. Which schools are prestigious?

If I am a resident/fellow:
Where should I try to become an attending? (Same as 2a and 2b above)

If I am a patient:
If I have a rare/complex condition that my local doctors can't diagnose/treat, where should I go for treatment?
If a university hospital is prestigious, they should have some of the best doctors, right?

 

[pierty]

I believe there is a point, though it might not be the most high-yield thread out there.

If I am a premedical student:
Along with fit, finances, and location, the prestige of a school is a factor I would take into account.
This leads to two questions:
1. What weight should I give the prestige factor? (This is why so many people ask how important school prestige is.)
2. Which schools are prestigious? Many people use the US News rankings for this, but what most people I believe are looking for is something like "Great Tier", "Good Tier", "OK Tier", and "Try to Avoid Tier".

If I am a medical student:
1. Is the school I go to going to give me a strong shot of getting the residency I want? Or am I going to have to work extra-hard and fight an uphill battle?
2. When I rank schools I interview at for the match, prestige is a factor alongside the others (people, location, stipend, research opportunities, etc.).
2a. How much weight should be given to prestige?
2b. Which schools are prestigious?

If I am a resident/fellow:
Where should I try to become an attending? (Same as 2a and 2b above)

If I am a patient:
If I have a rare/complex condition that my local doctors can't diagnose/treat, where should I go for treatment?
If a university hospital is prestigious, they should have some of the best doctors, right?

You are overthinking this to the nth-degree. It's a quality a lot of pre-med and med students have, as many are hyper-Type A personalities.

1. Assign it whatever factor you want. Life will work out, regardless of what you choose. You have no idea what would happen if you chose a different path, and growth involves learning to accept that.

2. There is no answer to this, and no one will be able answer this for you. You're asking for an objective statement to something that is completely subjective.

3. You haven't started medical school yet - you likely have no idea what you want to do (even if you think you do, it often changes... for some, numerous times). No one knows what factor an intangible like "reputation" or "prestige" has on getting the residency you think you want after those years - anyone who tells you differently is lying confidently to you. The closest thing we have is the NRMP report, which suggests that "graduate of a highly reputable medical school" is a factor that is >12 spots below other factors in your application, and this is among programs that listed it as a factor they considered - over half of residencies indicated that it was not considered at all. Regardless, you haven't even finished your application season for medical school yet, let alone your residency application years down the line.

4. You're thinking about where you would desire to be after residency and/or fellowship, when you haven't started medical school yet. Once you get to the point in life, other factors start to become more important to you. You won't know what they are until you're there.

 

[Ho0v-man]

These kinds of threads always are. I think this quote pulled from another one of these 1000+ threads boils it down nicely:



Some people want to feel important by surrounding themselves with important names, or places, that will validate them socially. The drive is limbic, not cortical. The billions of text characters spent on this just amount to people trying to justify to themselves why they are important, or why their strive to move up in their mental hierarchy is important.

And those people happen to be involved in residency recruitment. No one will say that going to Harvard or whatever else automatically makes you a better med student or doctor. It does make you more attractive to residency programs. That’s the point.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

the real short answer to the question here is. Yes it matters to some people, and no it doesn't matter to some people. Prestige serves as a holistic tool and that's all. I really don't think there's that much meaningful difference in terms of the quality of an education you will get between a t5 and a t50. But somehow the fact that you go to a t5 gives the outside world a quick holistic tool to make the assumption that you are good.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

You are overthinking this to the nth-degree. It's a quality a lot of pre-med and med students have, as many are hyper-Type A personalities.

1. Assign it whatever factor you want. Life will work out, regardless of what you choose. You have no idea what would happen if you chose a different path, and growth involves learning to accept that.

2. There is no answer to this, and no one will be able answer this for you. You're asking for an objective statement to something that is completely subjective.

3. You haven't started medical school yet - you likely have no idea what you want to do (even if you think you do, it often changes... for some, numerous times). No one knows what factor an intangible like "reputation" or "prestige" has on getting the residency you think you want after those years - anyone who tells you differently is lying confidently to you. The closest thing we have is the NRMP report, which suggests that "graduate of a highly reputable medical school" is a factor that is >12 spots below other factors in your application, and this is among programs that listed it as a factor they considered - over half of residencies indicated that it was not considered at all. Regardless, you haven't even finished your application season for medical school yet, let alone your residency application years down the line.

4. You're thinking about where you would desire to be after residency and/or fellowship, when you haven't started medical school yet. Once you get to the point in life, other factors start to become more important to you. You won't know what they are until you're there.

the fact you are a MD/PhD student makes the prestige of the school a bit less important. It's who you do your research with. I doubt you would argue that a big shot at your institution will be treated the same as a new attending. So yeah, in your world, prestige of the researcher you work with matters quite a bit.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I believe there is a point, though it might not be the most high-yield thread out there.

If I am a premedical student:
Along with fit, finances, and location, the prestige of a school is a factor I would take into account.
This leads to two questions:
1. What weight should I give the prestige factor? (This is why so many people ask how important school prestige is.)
2. Which schools are prestigious? Many people use the US News rankings for this, but what most people I believe are looking for is something like "Great Tier", "Good Tier", "OK Tier", and "Try to Avoid Tier".

If I am a medical student:
1. Is the school I go to going to give me a strong shot of getting the residency I want? Or am I going to have to work extra-hard and fight an uphill battle?
2. When I rank schools I interview at for the match, prestige is a factor alongside the others (people, location, stipend, research opportunities, etc.).
2a. How much weight should be given to prestige?
2b. Which schools are prestigious?

If I am a resident/fellow:
Where should I try to become an attending? (Same as 2a and 2b above)

If I am a patient:
If I have a rare/complex condition that my local doctors can't diagnose/treat, where should I go for treatment?
If a university hospital is prestigious, they should have some of the best doctors, right?

if you are a medical student or a resident, water has gone over the dam and you can't get a prestigious MD if you don't go to one at this point. lol

 

[someonerandom]

If you think you are even remotely interested in ENT, it's most important that you select a medical school with a home program. Prestige and medical school ranking are also factors.
659 people are applying for the 350 ENT residency spots this year. 😱

Any stats on the neurosurgery match? 😅 I am super interested in that field but the competition demoralizes me sometimes :/

 

[ChiDO]

Prestige only matters if you want your career to be in the ivory towers. 90% of the rest of practices/hospitals/employers/partners/patients don't care.

I know a handful of highly published, ivory tower pedigree surgeons that I wouldn't let operate on me or my family members.