Does the number of residents matter?

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PODonny

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I've been looking into the details of a few programs and have found that the number of residents varies from 1 to about 5 (per year). Should I be leery of a program that only has 1 resident or 5 for that matter? What are some opinions of those who have rotated about the number of residents a program has? Is 1 too few (making call schedule crazy) or is 5 too many (much competition for cases)? Thanks.
 
It all depends on what kind of situation you think you'll learn well in... you've answered your own question somewhat. I wouldn't be "leery" of any program unless they repeatedly fail to match or you've heard bad things from multiple residents/externs who worked there.

Programs that only take 1 mean you'll be on call a lot (esp when one of the others is on an external rotation). It also means you want to be a pretty good self directed learner and researcher since there's not much competition to push you or many other residents to help you on projects and lit reviews. I would guess that going to a program with only one resident also means your job is pretty secure since they'd be even more understaffed if they fired a resident. You'd also get to know the attendings very well in research, but some programs that only take 1 or 2 per year sometimes don't have a whole lot of attendings and you had better make sure they are good ones you want to emulate. You won't really benefit with a limited number of attendings if you are the kind of student who likes to learn a couple different tricks from each pod and move on.

Programs that take a lot of residents can do that because they have a lot of surgery volume and attendings (or at least they should) and COTH therefore accredited them for more spots. The downside is that some of those programs are then "top heavy" where you won't get much or any C level surgery or quality time with attendings since the numerous senior residents and fellows may take priority on cases, take credit for some of your research work, etc (of course you will get to that same status someday, though). A lot of programs that take 3+ per year split their residents up between various nearby major hospitals and only have first year residents take call, so it might not be as overcrowded or as easy of a call schedule as you think. The pressure and competition of having many other pod residents around might make some people rise to the challenge and do their best work, but it might be discouraging to others. Another potential downside is that a big program that has a lot of residents might have no problem cutting a couple stragglers loose since there are plenty of other stronger residents to pick up the slack and workload. No, nobody sets out to be the worst resident in their program or way below their peers, but sometimes people will end up as just that, esp in some elite ones.

Word of mouth is always good to narrow the 200+ residency location choices to the 5 or 10 you'll visit, but I think the externship is ultimately the best way to figure some of these things out and assess first hand the program case load, teamwork, strengths/weaknesses, etc. It might seem pretentious, but I'll be analyzing them as much as they are me. It's 3 years of your life and will greatly influence how happy or miserable you might end up in your pod career....
 
It all depends on what kind of situation you think you'll learn well in... you've answered your own question somewhat.

Programs that only take 1 mean you'll be on call a lot (esp when one of the others is on an external rotation). It also means you want to be a pretty good self directed learner and researcher since there's not much competition to push you or many other residents to help you on projects and lit reviews. I would guess that going to a program with only one resident also means your job is pretty secure since they'd be even more understaffed if they fired a resident. You'd also get to know the attendings very well in research (although some programs that only take 1 or 2 per year sometimes don't have a whole lot of attendings).

Programs that take a lot of residents can do that because they have a lot of surgery volume and attendings (or at least they should) and COTH therefore accredited them for more spots. The downside is that some of those programs are then "top heavy" where you won't get much or any C level surgery or quality time with attendings since the numerous senior residents and fellows may take priority on cases, take credit for some of your research work, etc (of course you will get to that same status someday, though). A lot of programs that take 3+ per year split their residents up between various nearby major hospitals and only have first year residents take call, so it might not be as overcrowded or as easy of a call schedule as you think. The pressure and competition of having many other pod residents around might make some people rise to the challenge and do their best work, but it might be discouraging to others. Another potential downside is that a big program that has a lot of residents might have no problem cutting a couple stragglers loose since there are plenty of other stronger residents to pick up the slack and workload. No, nobody sets out to be the worst resident in their program or way below their peers, but sometimes people will end up as just that, esp in some elite ones.

Word of mouth is always good to narrow the 200+ residency location choices to the 5 or 10 you'll visit, but I think the externship is ultimately the best way to figure some of these things out and assess first hand the program case load, teamwork, strengths/weaknesses, etc. It might seem pretentious, but I'll be analyzing them as much as they are me. It's 3 years of your life and will greatly influence how happy or miserable you might end up in your pod career....

👍 Well stated. 👍
 
It all depends on what kind of situation you think you'll learn well in... you've answered your own question somewhat. I wouldn't be "leery" of any program unless they repeatedly fail to match or you've heard bad things from multiple residents/externs who worked there.

Programs that only take 1 mean you'll be on call a lot (esp when one of the others is on an external rotation). It also means you want to be a pretty good self directed learner and researcher since there's not much competition to push you or many other residents to help you on projects and lit reviews. I would guess that going to a program with only one resident also means your job is pretty secure since they'd be even more understaffed if they fired a resident. You'd also get to know the attendings very well in research, but some programs that only take 1 or 2 per year sometimes don't have a whole lot of attendings and you had better make sure they are good ones you want to emulate. You won't really benefit with a limited number of attendings if you are the kind of student who likes to learn a couple different tricks from each pod and move on.

Programs that take a lot of residents can do that because they have a lot of surgery volume and attendings (or at least they should) and COTH therefore accredited them for more spots. The downside is that some of those programs are then "top heavy" where you won't get much or any C level surgery or quality time with attendings since the numerous senior residents and fellows may take priority on cases, take credit for some of your research work, etc (of course you will get to that same status someday, though). A lot of programs that take 3+ per year split their residents up between various nearby major hospitals and only have first year residents take call, so it might not be as overcrowded or as easy of a call schedule as you think. The pressure and competition of having many other pod residents around might make some people rise to the challenge and do their best work, but it might be discouraging to others. Another potential downside is that a big program that has a lot of residents might have no problem cutting a couple stragglers loose since there are plenty of other stronger residents to pick up the slack and workload. No, nobody sets out to be the worst resident in their program or way below their peers, but sometimes people will end up as just that, esp in some elite ones.

Word of mouth is always good to narrow the 200+ residency location choices to the 5 or 10 you'll visit, but I think the externship is ultimately the best way to figure some of these things out and assess first hand the program case load, teamwork, strengths/weaknesses, etc. It might seem pretentious, but I'll be analyzing them as much as they are me. It's 3 years of your life and will greatly influence how happy or miserable you might end up in your pod career....

Thanks for the response. I guess, my next question is strictly about the programs with only 1 resident per year. I've heard a few good things about Regions in St. Paul, yet they only accept 1 resident a year. Is there some reason for that? I figured there would be more being that they're a level 1 trauma center.
 
Thanks for the response. I guess, my next question is strictly about the programs with only 1 resident per year. I've heard a few good things about Regions in St. Paul, yet they only accept 1 resident a year. Is there some reason for that? I figured there would be more being that they're a level 1 trauma center.

It could be number of attendings. It could be that they are happy with the state of the program. It could be that each resident gets lots of surgical cases and they do not want to water down the education. It could be that they don't have the funding for another spot. I don't think anyone here will have that answer. I would email one of the residents at Regions (most are DMU grads) and ask them.
 
I was thinking of externing at Regions, and it sounds like a fantastic program from the Regions residents and externs I've talked to. However, you are pretty much putting all of your eggs in one basket if you rank a program that only takes one resident per year #1 for match. If you don't get it or they have told you "you're our #1 guy" and also told that to a couple other people, then you are in fairly rough shape. With the balance of match power swinging back away from the students and to the residencies due to increasing national DPM graduating class sizes, not matching your top choice could hurt you a bit unless other residencies (ie your #2, 3, etc) have you ranked highly. I'll probably still visit the program if I can, but I don't think I'll do a full extern month there or at any other programs that take only one resident for that reasoning.

Actually, I just don't wanna have to compete with all of dem dere DMU country boys 😀
 
I was thinking of externing at Regions, and it sounds like a fantastic program from the Regions residents and externs I've talked to. However, you are pretty much putting all of your eggs in one basket if you rank a program that only takes one resident per year #1 for match. If you don't get it or they have told you "you're our #1 guy" and also told that to a couple other people, then you are in fairly rough shape. With the balance of match power swinging back away from the students and to the residencies due to increasing national DPM graduating class sizes, not matching your top choice could hurt you a bit unless other residencies (ie your #2, 3, etc) have you ranked highly. I'll probably still visit the program if I can, but I don't think I'll do a full extern month there or at any other programs that take only one resident for that reasoning.

Actually, I just don't wanna have to compete with all of dem dere DMU country boys 😀

:idea:
Finally the truth comes out.
 
:idea:
Finally the truth comes out.

How are the other programs in MN??? Are there many people from DMU that came from MN?? What are the programs in IA?

Thanks
 
How are the other programs in MN??? Are there many people from DMU that came from MN?? What are the programs in IA?

Thanks

I know of 3 programs in MN, Regions, Hennipin, and Coon Rapids. Regions and Hennipin are solid programs. Regions is associated with the University of Minnesota medical school. I do not know enough about Coon Rapids to comment on it.

There are quite a few DMU students that come from MN, SD, IA, or WI each year. Generally, there is a lot of intereste in the programs.

The programs in Iowa are Trinity and Covenant. Broadlawns in DM recently closed its program.
 
I was thinking of externing at Regions, and it sounds like a fantastic program from the Regions residents and externs I've talked to. However, you are pretty much putting all of your eggs in one basket if you rank a program that only takes one resident per year #1 for match. If you don't get it or they have told you "you're our #1 guy" and also told that to a couple other people, then you are in fairly rough shape. With the balance of match power swinging back away from the students and to the residencies due to increasing national DPM graduating class sizes, not matching your top choice could hurt you a bit unless other residencies (ie your #2, 3, etc) have you ranked highly. I'll probably still visit the program if I can, but I don't think I'll do a full extern month there or at any other programs that take only one resident for that reasoning.

Actually, I just don't wanna have to compete with all of dem dere DMU country boys 😀


I think you may be a bit confused about the match process.
Just some friendly advice.


If you rank a program number 1 and they rank you number 10 and their number 1 person ranked them 1 then the program gets their number one person and you move on to your number 2 choice as if it is your number one. And if your number 2 ranked you number 1 then you go there to your number 2. If your number 2 rank you 10 but the top nine matched to their top choices elsewhere then you go to your 2nd choice program.

It is always in your benefit to rank where you want to go and not where you think you will match. If I ranked based on where I thought I would match I would be in NJ not VA.
 
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