Why Does the VA Get So Much Hate?

[SweetFeet04]

I’m hoping some current and former VA residents will respond, so that students can make informed decisions in the future. I’ve never understood all the hate towards the VA. Especially when not all VAs are created equal. I agree that there are many subpar VA programs, but there are also many non-VA programs that provide mediocre training. When applying to clerkships, I was initially hesitant to apply to VAs because of all the negative comments I had seen regarding VAs on this forum. However, after talking to a VA resident, I decided to apply to an equal amount of VAs & non-VAs to see for myself.

During clerkships I was only impressed by one of my non-VA rotations. At some of the big-name/highly desired programs, the attendings seemed to be more focused on stroking their egos than patient care. Some of the residents could barely tie their shoes. The 3rd year residents also did not seem as confident in the OR. There was an entire month where I saw nothing but I&Ds and toe amps. Not even 1 single bunion. When I asked how often they had rearfoot cases, the resident’s response was “rearfoot isn’t that important, it’s not like we’re going to do much of it in the future”. I later found out that most bunion and rearfoot cases went to ortho. But that particular hospital did not respect podiatry.

Sure, the VA is clinic heavy, but from what I’ve been told, surgery only makes up about 10% of private practice. Why not get used to heavy clinic if that's what I’ll be doing 90% of the time post-residency? Unless I work for a hospital, but there are so few positions available. The residents and attendings at my VA rotations were far more compassionate and had great rapport with their patients. They placed a strong emphasis on teaching. Most of the veterans presented with multiple comorbidities, and advanced chronic conditions, which I think gives residents lots of experience managing challenging cases.

The VA seems more invested in teaching. Many have affiliations with some of the top academic institutions across the country (Palo Alto – Stanford, Puget Sound – University of Washington, etc.). Residents at VAs work more closely with attendings. I hardly ever saw the attendings outside of the OR at my non-VA rotations, with the exception of 2 programs. I found serving those who have served our country very rewarding. Veterans are so appreciative of the care they receive. You learn a lot about what they've been through. I had never even heard of agent orange prior to my time at the VA. Sure CPRS sucks, but hopefully switching to Cerner will be better. No system is perfect, and every program has areas for growth. I think people should select programs based on their interests and learning style, rather than whether or not it’s at a VA. Just thought I’d share a different perspective, as well as get some insight from others.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Adam Smasher]

I did 4 VA rotations in podiatry school, and 3 of them were mandatory core rotations around my school in Chicago.

During my rotations as a student, I think I scrubbed in on a total of 6 surgeries. Not that the cases weren't there, I just didn't personally see them happening. I'll leave it to others to comment on the surgical training at VAs, but the consensus seems to be it's not good.

The problem with any clinic-heavy residency is that it's exploitative of residents for cheap labor. Prior to the turn of the millennium, residency training was not a universal thing for podiatrists. A lot of them went on to private office jobs straight out of school. They treated patients just fine. It's silly to suggest that you need 3 years of postgraduate training to figure out outpatient podiatry, because that side of podiatry just isn't that hard.

The problem with VA clinic is that it's not 100% reflective of private office work. Some things you can't do in an office that you can in the VA, and vice versa. I remember needing to get a surgical consent to do a steroid injection at one facility! There's a ton of wound care, which is nice if you're interested in it, but the government is paying for all the products you'll get to use. And the VA population is just different...a lot of indigent patients with nowhere to go and nothing to do and don't mind if the clinic is backed up 2 hours. While I was there, it seemed like every other patient was in a rascal, and I even had one ask me to prescribe him one, saying it was "service connected." So I told the resident what was up and he rolled his eyes at me, but the attending heard us from around the corner, and sure enough, the patient got his rascal!

Anyway, I don't believe VAs are all bad, but enough of them are that if you're going to end up in a bad program you may as well be at a bad program that won't scut you out in clinic 40 hours/week.

 

[caliking87]

I can only speak for the phoenix VA but exploitation of cheap/free labor is 100% accurate. 3rd year residents are spending majority of their time in clinic busting crumblies.

 

[caliking87]

The training is horrible. There are always exceptions but look at a recent graduate from a VA, (again, always exceptions) and they will most likely not be as well trained as other program graduates

 

[heybrother]

A long time ago I told DMU's clerkship director, who is now their dean, that I wanted to visit a specific program. He told me that he strongly recommended against it. He said student reviews were very poor. He was happy to provide recommendations for stronger programs to fill the spot. I went anyway and the program was terrible. It had a year of VA btw and my week there was awful. There was teaching. It was non-sense and terrible. The "chronic" condition were terrible. I should have listened. I didn't. I told myself that somehow I knew better, or that people were wrong, or that it must be fine because the program was accredited.

Those feeling were all self deception. And that's what your entire post is 😉. No amount of self justification or talk about academic affilitations, or teaching, or kindness, or douchebaggery elsewhere will justify weak VA training. There are plenty of bad non-VA programs but that doesn't make VA programs good.

Every year, students across the country vote with their feet and they vote not to attend certain VA programs. You should listen to them. There is no secret hidden gem that is being missed.

You've never actually operated. You don't understand what you are giving up. Once you get over the anxiety of operating - you can enjoy it. I will jokingly tell you its probably how a pitcher or quarterback feels - everyone and everything focused and dependent on your every motion. It can be stressful. It sometimes can be financially questionable. The better you are at it though the better the financial math becomes. We talk on here as if every case has Medicare, and sometimes they do, but sometimes they have better insurance too. I've been paid thousands of dollars to perform midfoot/rearfoot fusions. Not everything is free. Your surgery center and hospital will appreciate you bringing these cases - if you do them effectively and efficiently. You want to talk about having a relationship with a patient that is meaningful? Perform a life altering surgery on someone that other people fiddled and screwed around on.

 

[BelowKneeSandwich]

I did 4 VA rotations in podiatry school, and 3 of them were mandatory core rotations around my school in Chicago.

During my rotations as a student, I think I scrubbed in on a total of 6 surgeries. Not that the cases weren't there, I just didn't personally see them happening. I'll leave it to others to comment on the surgical training at VAs, but the consensus seems to be it's not good.

The problem with any clinic-heavy residency is that it's exploitative of residents for cheap labor. Prior to the turn of the millennium, residency training was not a universal thing for podiatrists. A lot of them went on to private office jobs straight out of school. They treated patients just fine. It's silly to suggest that you need 3 years of postgraduate training to figure out outpatient podiatry, because that side of podiatry just isn't that hard.

The problem with VA clinic is that it's not 100% reflective of private office work. Some things you can't do in an office that you can in the VA, and vice versa. I remember needing to get a surgical consent to do a steroid injection at one facility! There's a ton of wound care, which is nice if you're interested in it, but the government is paying for all the products you'll get to use. And the VA population is just different...a lot of indigent patients with nowhere to go and nothing to do and don't mind if the clinic is backed up 2 hours. While I was there, it seemed like every other patient was in a rascal, and I even had one ask me to prescribe him one, saying it was "service connected." So I told the resident what was up and he rolled his eyes at me, but the attending heard us from around the corner, and sure enough, the patient got his rascal!

Anyway, I don't believe VAs are all bad, but enough of them are that if you're going to end up in a bad program you may as well be at a bad program that won't scut you out in clinic 40 hours/week.

Is there actual evidence or stats to show that VA trained podiatrist under perform, in terms of patient outcomes compared to non VA trained podiatrist?

Regarding surgical experience, true some VA sites are more clinic heavy, but they are also affiliated with academic institutions and community hospitals, increasing the surgical cases beyond the VA itself.

For instance:

DVA Middleton is affiliated with University of Wisconsin,

DVA Puget Sound is associated with University of Washington,

DVA Salem is associated with University of Virginia, Virginia Tech Carillion, and Virginia COM,

DVA Palo Alto is associated with Stanford,

DVA Hines is associated with Loyola,

DVA Miami is associated with University of Miami,

DVA SF is associated with UCSF,

DVA Richmond is associated with Virginia Commonwealth University,

DVA Maryland is associated with University of Maryland,

DVA Jerry Pettis is associated with UC Riverside,

DVA Charlie Norwood is affiliated with Augusta University



Secondly, I want to push back on the idea that clinic-heavy programs are "exploitative." Yeah, clinical volume is high, but this mirrors what real-world podiaty practice is like, where the bulk of income and patient care is outpatient-based. Ask any practicing podiatrist now, the reimbursement for surgeries isn’t as lucrative as clinic care

Becoming a competent, well-rounded podiatrist requires both surgical and clinical skills, especially with the increasing emphasis on limb salvage, wound care, BMX, and diabetic foot management. These skills are crucial to preventing amputation and hospitalizations. Clinic is where you perform your pre-op to actually get people into the OR. You have to be able to determine who needs surgery and what kind from clinic! You see your post-op patients in clinic! If something goes wrong, you have to know how to treat them in the clinic! These are the skills you develop at the VA…in the clinic!

Regarding your point about 3 years of residency being unnecessary to practice outpatient podiatry, respectfully, I disagree. The landscape of podiatric medicine has changed dramatically since the pre-residency era, expectations for training and competency are much higher now, not only in surgery but also in diabetic foot care, limb preservation, and high-risk management. If podiatrists are to continue to be recognized as specialists in lower extremity care, cutting back on training expectations undermines the progress we've made as a profession.

You also mention that VA clinic is not reflective of private office practice and that's partially true. But I would argue that no single residency program can prepare you for every private practice nuance, and the diverse and medically complex VA population actually prepares residents for challenging cases they might never see in a routine "bread-and-butter" private office, such as Charcot reconstruction, limb salvage, and severe infections. Plus, managing patients in a large system like VA helps residents learn how to navigate healthcare bureaucracy, coordinate care, and advocate for patients, all skills that translate to any setting.

VA residencies aren't for everyone, and like any system, some programs are stronger than others — but to dismiss them categorically overlooks the exceptional training, unique opportunities.

 

[josebiwasabi]

You have to have attendings who actually perform surgery to learn how to perform a preoperative workup, how to select surgical patients, and to see postop outcomes and deal with complications.

There is nothing wrong with getting lots of exposure to good clinic. The problem is that most VA clinics have 90% of patients coming solely for nail/callus care and their version of wound care is mostly nonsurgical (betadine DSD... or worse slapping on $1000s worth of graft weekly) and don't they perform surgical biomechanical rebalancing/optimization apart from dispensing plastazote inserts.

The criticism of exploitation is due to the lack of attending involvement and teaching. The VA clinics I witnessed were more about getting through all 80 nail patients before the end of the day. Most of the time attendings sat in the back room and didn't actually physically see the patients. Because once again, they aren't planning on actually taking anyone to surgery so there's no presurgical/postsurgical workup or exposure.

PS I work with the residents from one of the VAs you listed above. Their institution does not provide enough surgical volume to support a residency program.

 

[Feli]

A few things:

1: Clinic is easy stuff; you learned that stuff in pod school. Residency is to learn surgery.
I say it all the time, but nobody who can do calc ORIF and cavus recon well struggles with wound care or ingrowns. Sorry.
Podiatry clinic stuff is stuff FP docs, UCare docs, NPs and PAs, and even RNs can do fairly well (and they do it every day). Realize that.

2: Realize that not a single MD or DO residency is sponsored at a VA hospital. Zero. That not an accident.
VAs are slow, they don't have the pathology mix needed, it's not typical medicine (it's single payer govt care).
A few MD/DO residencies, medical or surgical, might rotate at a VA nearby for a month or two (of their 48 or 60 or whatever months), but they are not sponsored by them. They're at a bigger teaching hospital... with board prep, trauma, big ER, other residencies, academics, many cases done by board cert attendings.

If that's not enough, VAs don't have enough surgery, as mentioned quite a few times above...
3: You have to remember the VAMC podiatry residencies were all whipped up real fast when APMA decided PM&S 24 and 36 models would be the thing... and soon after, they decreed 3 year programs for everyone and "every podiatrist is a surgeon!" The VA programs - and others - were also rapidly expanded to keep up with new podiatry schools/seats opening fast. They're the filler. They're the safety net.... the last resort.
The VAs were never made to be the best teaching programs possible. They were hastily made and expanded, and many of them had (and some still have) very questionable training of the director/attendings. They did not have GME departments, academics, other MD/DO residents (as teaching hospitals do). They were a bailout in order to avoid residency shortage. Nothing more. And sure, a few of the VA podiatry programs turned out average or even fairly good only due to outstanding directors (Mike Cohen when he was at Miami VA, etc) and their arranging outside roations/cases for the residents.

...Regarding surgical experience, true some VA sites are more clinic heavy, but they are also affiliated with academic institutions and community hospitals, increasing the surgical cases beyond the VA itself. ...

4: Yes, the only way any VA training program becomes decent is to add outside cases.
The VA lends it self to male patients, wound care, slow pace, single payer, and not exactly go-getter docs (pod or any types of docs) who collect salary.
Back in the real world, most podiatry elective surgery is female patients, some kids, private insurance (not single payer), docs paid on productivity/collections.
VA jobs are very unattractive, mostly due to pay, for most MDs and DOs... yet podiatry thinks they are fair, even good, pay. While nearly all good MDs would never consider a VA job, some DPMs sadly do VA residency in hopes of a VA job afterward. How pathetic is that that we compete for pay MD/DO laugh at? 🙁

Either way, VAs as residency locations have no chance on their own, and the only chance is adding more case (especially "real world" cases) somehow.
As an example, the Albuquerque VA near me, often considered "the best VA program," is fairly good relative to overall podiatry training. It's that way because they do many outside cases with PP podiatrists at private hospitals/ASCs in the metro - and even send residents to far remote hospital outside the VAMC. Basically, it's a good program in spite of being a VA program. And fwiw, even the best VA is still a pretty average program in competitiveness and results overall.... mostly average grads, average jobs, average fellowships if they do one, etc (you will have the occasional rockstar grad - or terrible grad - just like any residency). The grads typically list their residency as the hospital out of state they rotate at a bit... instead of listing it as the VA (residency sponsor). So that tells you a bit right there.

Is there actual evidence or stats to show that VA trained podiatrist under perform, in terms of patient outcomes compared to non VA trained podiatrist?...

5: I'm sure the ABFAS board pass rates (qual) would reflect that objectively, yes. No doubt. (but yes, there are plenty of terrible non-VA programs also)

Sadly, podiatry programs don't publish that board pass data by residency as MD programs freely do.
As for ABFAS board cert, that's more on the docs themselves by then... program just preps them academically.

But yes, although there are some stinker non-VA podiatry residencies also, none of our top 10, 25, 50, etc pod residencies are VA programs. Many of our bottom programs are VAs.

...Bottom line for clerk and match is to look elsewhere past VAs if you have good GPA and want to learn surgery. That should be common sense.
There is no reason to pick a residency with a sponsor hospital facility inherently handicapped for cases, attendings, academics, everything.
For students with limited options, there are some ok VA podiatry programs. Still try to have other options. 👍
The current political climate is also not exactly glowing for funding/support of the VAMC money black hole (won't get shut down, but could get reduced/stagnated on funding... absolutely).

 

[Adam Smasher]

true some VA sites are more clinic heavy

Are there any that are not clinic heavy?

Ask any practicing podiatrist now, the reimbursement for surgeries isn’t as lucrative as clinic care

Exactly, clinic is lucrative especially with residents doing all the work for you. That's exploitation.

limb salvage, wound care, BMX, and diabetic foot management

Why would you make a list of things that are all the same thing? This is redundant, repetitive, and tautological!

Seriously, if you've followed the Adam Smasher comment feed, you'd know my opinions on how ridiculously podiatry overcomplicates itself. It's bad enough that our two boards are pontificating on whether or not "limb preservation" should exist as a podiatric subspecialty--as though none of us are doing it already-- without you further subdividing it.

Don't misunderstand me. I hope you get the best training you can and enjoy a successful career. But if you land in a mediocre program with a lot of clinic, get back to us when you're a PGY-2 wondering why you need to stick around when you could just hang your own shingle.

 

[XCY999]

Medical students are highly capable, not easily misled, especially those who have completed rotations across the country. If a VA program truly stands out, it must distinguish itself from the rest—like VA Orlando, which offers a new infrastructure, great location, diverse case exposure, and other unique advantages.

 

[siamesesquared]

To answer your question, there is absolutely no evidence that VA trained podiatrists underperform. Some of the best podiatrists I know have been VA trained and VA trained podiatrists are in every avenue of practice today. You will get more hands on surgical and clinical experience at a VA program than you will standing there not participating in many more private sector procedures. And yes, much more of your time will be spent in clinic once you have finished residency so it’s a more accurate distribution of your future days. VA patients have tons of complications and when you’re done you will never meet one you can’t handle, unlike other places where you will never see the patient after surgery. VA patients are followed for years if not their lifetime, if not at the same VA then another one. There is a broad variety of attendings and you do get to rotate at other places, with many of the VA programs so you will have private practice exposure. Of course there are better and worse programs in the VA, just as there are better and worse programs in the private sector. Residency training is what you make of it. There have been good doctors to come out of the worst programs, and bad doctors to come out of the best. Ask yourself about possible motivations why these “for profit“ institutions are so ready to dissuade you from training at a VA program.

 

[siamesesquared]

To answer your question, there is absolutely no evidence that VA trained podiatrists underperform. Some of the best podiatrists I know have been VA trained and VA trained podiatrists are in every avenue of practice today. You will get more hands on surgical and clinical experience at a VA program than you will standing there not participating in many more private sector procedures. And yes, much more of your time will be spent in clinic once you have finished residency so it’s a more accurate distribution of your future days. VA patients have tons of complications and when you’re done you will never meet one you can’t handle, unlike other places where you will never see the patient after surgery. VA patients are followed for years if not their lifetime, if not at the same VA then another one. There is a broad variety of attendings and you do get to rotate at other places, with many of the VA programs so you will have private practice exposure. Of course there are better and worse programs in the VA, just as there are better and worse programs in the private sector. Residency training is what you make of it. There have been good doctors to come out of the worst programs, and bad doctors to come out of the best. Ask yourself about possible motivations why these “for profit“ institutions are so ready to dissuade you from training at a VA program.

VA doc here, was certified by ABFAS, ABPM, and wound care within first 4 years of practice😉

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Probation as PMSR/RRA (Candidate for withdrawal, effective July 1, 2025)
Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center – Lebanon
Inspira Medical Center Vineland
MemorialCare Long Beach Medical Center
Montefiore Mount Vernon Hospital
Mount Sinai Medical Center
Richmond University Medical Center
The Heights Hospital
UCI Health Lakewood
Virtua Health
Weiss Memorial Hospital

To be fair, only one VA is listed among the probation programs. Powerhouse programs attract the best in podiatry (though incompetence can still slip through, but it’s prob easy to weed out within the first day), and reputation plays a big role in drawing talent. I’m sure some VA programs are outstanding, but their reputation needs to improve before anything else can change.

 

[Feli]

... I’m sure some VA programs are outstanding, but their reputation needs to improve before anything else can change.

The "outstanding VA programs" are good because of outside things at nearby private hospitals: more cases, good attendings, affiliate hospitals. No VA program would be good unaided, and that's why MD and DO programs would never have them as a sponsor for residencies (never have, never will).

Any student given the choice between a self-sufficient residency hospital/system (has cases, academics, good attendings on staff at primary hospital, resident support) and a hospital that needs outside help to have a chance (VA, little community hospital with no MD residencies, etc), you want to pick the former... 100%. That is the bottom line here. It is big to have the research support, GME support, organized academics, learning with TEACHING services that real academic hospitals offer. There is no need to make the best of a rough situation when you can land into a good situation. Let someone else have that uphill trek. Stack the deck in your favor; get the good training. It's sad that podiatry only has a small fraction of our programs at true teaching hospitals/systems.

VA residencies can be ok. They were created simply to avoid residency shortages in 200x era. Pick any program based on the training.
VA hospitals will have few VA staff teaching attendings, little or no interaction with MD/DO teach programs, variable at best academics.
Again, MDs and DOs don't do more than the odd month rotation at the tiny/VAMC hospitals some DPM programs use as sponsor/primary hospital. It's sad.

If you pick a VA, be aware the director can end those outside rotations anytime (or prioritize covering them below nail cutting and wound care at VA sponsor location). That is a major trip point and limiting factor for many VA programs... since those are usually the best and essential cases the VA doesn't provide or very minimally offers (variety, peds, female pts, private insurance pts). Those are your common VA horror stories of residents stuck in TFP clinic at the VA and unable to see good stuff surgically (if those arrangements with outside locations even exist to any helpful extent).

• VAs are generally picked in match/scramble due to lack of better options (not ideal, but not crazy.. something's better than nothing).
• A few VAs are picked based on location (not ideal, not crazy if you are attached to a city and can't find a better residency).
• And now, since about 2018 parity pa, some DPMs pathetically match VAs with hopes of working at one after graduation (even crazier, especially when any MD/DO work much would 99% not consider VAMC pay/work).

As said above, there are 1000 paths to success - or failure. Stack the deck in your favor; get the good training.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

The "outstanding VA programs" are good because of outside things at nearby private hospitals: more cases, good attendings, affiliate hospitals. No VA program would be good unaided, and that's why MD and DO programs would never have them as a sponsor for residencies (never have, never will).

Any student given the choice between a self-sufficient residency hospital/system (has cases, academics, good attendings on staff at primary hospital, resident support) and a hospital that needs outside help to have a chance (VA, little community hospital with no MD residencies, etc), you want to pick the former... 100%. That is the bottom line here. It is big to have the research support, GME support, organized academics, learning with TEACHING services that real academic hospitals offer. There is no need to make the best of a rough situation when you can land into a good situation. Let someone else have that uphill trek. Stack the deck in your favor; get the good training. It's sad that podiatry only has a small fraction of our programs at true teaching hospitals/systems.

VA residencies can be ok. They were created simply to avoid residency shortages in 200x era. Pick any program based on the training.
VA hospitals will have few VA staff teaching attendings, little or no interaction with MD/DO teach programs, variable at best academics.
Again, MDs and DOs don't do more than the odd month rotation at the tiny/VAMC hospitals some DPM programs use as sponsor/primary hospital. It's sad.

If you pick a VA, be aware the director can end those outside rotations anytime (or prioritize covering them below nail cutting and wound care at VA sponsor location). That is a major trip point and limiting factor for many VA programs... since those are usually the best and essential cases the VA doesn't provide or very minimally offers (variety, peds, female pts, private insurance pts). Those are your common VA horror stories of residents stuck in TFP clinic at the VA and unable to see good stuff surgically (if those arrangements with outside locations even exist to any helpful extent).

• VAs are generally picked in match/scramble due to lack of better options (not ideal, but not crazy.. something's better than nothing).
• A few VAs are picked based on location (not ideal, not crazy if you are attached to a city and can't find a better residency).
• And now, since about 2018 parity pa, some DPMs pathetically match VAs with hopes of working at one after graduation (even crazier, especially when any MD/DO work much would 99% not consider VAMC pay/work).

As said above, there are 1000 paths to success - or failure. Stack the deck in your favor; get the good training.

I’m guessing MPII isn’t going too well this year. But on the bright side, in a few years, there’ll probably be more students than residency slots. Maybe this year will motivate VA programs to come up with new ideas and incentives to attract potential residents.

 

[Feli]

I’m guessing MPII isn’t going too well this year. But on the bright side, in a few years, there’ll probably be more students than residency slots. Maybe this year will motivate VA programs to come up with new ideas and incentives to attract potential residents.

Can't imaging why that may be...

Reductions in force: A look at which agencies are affected by DOGE-led job cuts

The deep cuts across federal agencies since Donald Trump’s return to the White House include reductions in force, which mean not only layoffs but also elimination of positions altogether.

apnews.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2025-03-11/trump-administration-plan-to-cut-80-000-va-jobs-knocked-as-rush-not-reform

...the first thing most VAs will do if staff/budget cuts occur is try to get more out of pod residents and other remaining staff.
For podiatry residents (they don't have MD/DO residents), the logical thing they'd do is cancel or neuter most outside rotations for their residents.
The residents could be used more for inpatient, ER, pod or non-pod clinics, whatever coverage help they need. Residents are employees.
That'll be an absolute backbreaker to programs that get many cases outside VA (or even whole pgy3 at other hospitals).
VA programs can't exist with any sufficient quality without outside cases/rotations (hence MD/DO not even considering them as sponsors).

To be fair, private hospitals do the same stuff when budget or labor is tight. Residents are employees. I was a resident during 2007-08 Obama market crash, and some rules changed. Instead of picking what we want when the surgery lists came out, we were mostly only able to go outside our main system to other/independent system surgery if we had all of the F&A cases at our main large hospital and its satellite surgery locations covered first and foremost (we had plenty of surgery within that main sponsor system - but some outside cases and variety was nice). We were curbed a bit on private attending PP clinics unless the main location clinic/inpatient as well covered. But the difference in having a self-sufficient system (academic teaching hospital, dozens of DPMs on staff, all the surgery you need - and more) versus a system that depends entirely on outside help is huge.

You'd always rather lose a few luxuries than find out your training is crippled.
Get a good program that's self-sustaining, plenty of surgery... preferably in a teaching hospital.

 

[heybrother]

To be fair, private hospitals do the same stuff when budget or labor is tight. Residents are employees. I was a resident during 2007-08 Obama market crash, and some rules changed. Instead of picking what we want when the surgery lists came out, we were mostly only able to go outside our main system to other/independent system surgery if we had all of the F&A cases at our main large hospital and its satellite surgery locations covered first and foremost (we had plenty of surgery within that main sponsor system - but some outside cases and variety was nice). We were curbed a bit on private attending PP clinics unless the main location clinic/inpatient as well covered. But the difference in having a self-sufficient system (academic teaching hospital, dozens of DPMs on staff, all the surgery you need - and more) versus a system that depends entirely on outside help is huge.

Barack Obama became president in 2009.

 

[siamesesquared]

The "outstanding VA programs" are good because of outside things at nearby private hospitals: more cases, good attendings, affiliate hospitals. No VA program would be good unaided, and that's why MD and DO programs would never have them as a sponsor for residencies (never have, never will).

Any student given the choice between a self-sufficient residency hospital/system (has cases, academics, good attendings on staff at primary hospital, resident support) and a hospital that needs outside help to have a chance (VA, little community hospital with no MD residencies, etc), you want to pick the former... 100%. That is the bottom line here. It is big to have the research support, GME support, organized academics, learning with TEACHING services that real academic hospitals offer. There is no need to make the best of a rough situation when you can land into a good situation. Let someone else have that uphill trek. Stack the deck in your favor; get the good training. It's sad that podiatry only has a small fraction of our programs at true teaching hospitals/systems.

VA residencies can be ok. They were created simply to avoid residency shortages in 200x era. Pick any program based on the training.
VA hospitals will have few VA staff teaching attendings, little or no interaction with MD/DO teach programs, variable at best academics.
Again, MDs and DOs don't do more than the odd month rotation at the tiny/VAMC hospitals some DPM programs use as sponsor/primary hospital. It's sad.

If you pick a VA, be aware the director can end those outside rotations anytime (or prioritize covering them below nail cutting and wound care at VA sponsor location). That is a major trip point and limiting factor for many VA programs... since those are usually the best and essential cases the VA doesn't provide or very minimally offers (variety, peds, female pts, private insurance pts). Those are your common VA horror stories of residents stuck in TFP clinic at the VA and unable to see good stuff surgically (if those arrangements with outside locations even exist to any helpful extent).

• VAs are generally picked in match/scramble due to lack of better options (not ideal, but not crazy.. something's better than nothing).
• A few VAs are picked based on location (not ideal, not crazy if you are attached to a city and can't find a better residency).
• And now, since about 2018 parity pa, some DPMs pathetically match VAs with hopes of working at one after graduation (even crazier, especially when any MD/DO work much would 99% not consider VAMC pay/work).

As said above, there are 1000 paths to success - or failure. Stack the deck in your favor; get the good training.

Many VA programs were in existence before the early 2000s area and were inaugural podiatry programs, not fillers. Yes, some were created due to excess students as were some in other sectors.
And a VA residency will absolutely give an advantage to getting a VA job when there is an opportunity. Not sure why students would not want to do this just because “MDs and DOs don’t”… our students are not MDs or DOs or they would be in those forums and not here.

 

[wakaflocka88]

Rotate at VASF and you’ll see why. Not all are bad but majority are.

Same goes with majority of programs. They have zero business in staying open but to exploit cheap labor

 

[deleted1162946]

Sure, the VA is clinic heavy, but from what I’ve been told, surgery only makes up about 10% of private practice. Why not get used to heavy clinic if that's what I’ll be doing 90% of the time post-residency?

and this is where you’re wrong. Yes 10% of your practice as an attending maybe surgery. But that 10% will be nearly 100% of the stress especially if you’re not competent or confident coming out of residency. You need the best surgical training possible for when you’re in the operating room alone and have no one else there to bail you out.

 

[SweetFeet04]

and this is where you’re wrong. Yes 10% of your practice as an attending maybe surgery. But that 10% will be nearly 100% of the stress especially if you’re not competent or confident coming out of residency. You need the best surgical training possible for when you’re in the operating room alone and have no one else there to bail you out.

My point was what’s wrong with getting experience in both clinic and surgery? At my non VA rotations there seemed to be a lot of down time. I was constantly asking if anyone needed assistance with anything because I was bored once inpatient rounding & cases were done. Im the type of person that can’t remain idle for too long, or I get sleepy. I ended up just doing board vitals until something else popped up. Would much rather spend that time in clinic. I didn't notice a significant difference in numbers of the 3rd year residents between VA vs non-VA, but that could just be the ones I rotated at. Like I said, not all VAs are created equal.

 

[ttlope04]

My point was what’s wrong with getting experience in both clinic and surgery? At my non VA rotations there seemed to be a lot of down time. I was constantly asking if anyone needed assistance with anything because I was bored once inpatient rounding & cases were done. Im the type of person that can’t remain idle for too long, or I get sleepy. I ended up just doing board vitals until something else popped up. Would much rather spend that time in clinic. I didn't notice a significant difference in numbers of the 3rd year residents between VA vs non-VA, but that could just be the ones I rotated at. Like I said, not all VAs are created equal.

Funny you should mention all the down time at non VAs. Looks like your spot on since you asked for insight from current & former VA residents, but it’s only those that are non-VA trained that have had time to respond 🤣.

 

[shadesofgrey]

As a student I rotated at two VA programs. One was a required rotation (one month, 3rd and 4th year) and the other was a externship based on a desired location. I scrubbed a grand total of one case between those rotations, a toe amputation. The rest of the rotation was wounds or nails, long days and lots of crumblies. Residents from these programs did cover outside surgery centers that we weren't allowed to visit and likely had other cases, but still pretty poor showing overall.

However, during my residency, we were based out of a different hospital but also covered a fairly large local VA that had 3 well trained RRA docs and had no residency. That VA acted as a tertiary hospital within the VA system for the area and thus got referrals from all over, we would see pathology from 4-5 hours away. During my third year we were doing quite a bit of trauma and at least 1 TAR a month which was pretty good at that time. Though I understand the trauma has largely disappeared with veteran's choice changes. I feel that was the exception to the rule and wouldn't suggest a VA residency in general.

 

[deleted1162946]

Funny you should mention all the down time at non VAs. Looks like your spot on since you asked for insight from current & former VA residents, but it’s only those that are non-VA trained that have had time to respond 🤣.

the VA consistently has the worst programs. It’s not even up for debate

 

[BelowKneeSandwich]

I think you all are missing the point of this post. It seems to me that OP is saying not ALL VAs are the same, you can't just lump it together and say all VAs are bad, just like not all non-VAs are good. There has to be as much discernment between VA programs as there are non-VA programs when you are choosing residencies.

Side note: If I had listen to the loudest voices on SDN I would have never gone to podiatry school and I would have missed out on this overall rewarding career.

If anyone is considering a VA, talk with actual residents, graduates, and attendings, who have been through the VA system. Plenty of current VA attendings graduate from these top tier non VA programs. Don't let a couple of internet blogs be your only resource. You never know anyone's motivation or insecurities.

AGAIN FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDNT READ: We are not saying VAs are the best, we are saying not all VAs are the same and there is value to them. Still haven't gotten any evidence that VA trained podiatrists are any worst. Gimme studies, stats, something to prove that a VA trained surgeon under performs a compared to their peers. Then I'll put my foot in my mouth. I'll admit when I'm wrong.

 

[Sole Badguy]

In my experience, the VA had somewhat greater scope in comparison to other hospitals I was at, but only because ortho was slower/lazier and was generally OK with passing them along to podiatry. VA ortho doesn't get paid enough to care that much. Don't misunderstand though: VA hospitals are generally considered a last resort for care (there's dark humor about how "VA hospitals give vets a second chance to die for their country", after all), and given the choice vets would rather be seen at a "proper" hospital - that generally means fewer cases overall for residents. Clinic is VERY busy though and with lobster podiatry aplenty.

Agree with doing research as to what kind of work/cases are being brought into which hospitals. You only get to go through residency once.

 

[siamesesquared]

These comments are based on the posters’ experiences from a few of their own student rotations many years ago, and largely opinions they’ve developed and continue to propagate, none of this is factual. Students’ priorities are different from that time period and I dare say many of these comments are dated and inaccurate. Most of the VAs in big cities have multiple attendings doing RF and ankle and do not compete with ortho. The cases are there even without external rotations in many places, sure not all but again PP faces the same problems. Patients are extremely appreciative and most do prefer VA care and if they choose community it’s because of wait times. Wound care is light years ahead because of the available resources. We are chronically understaffed and hundreds of pods apply for one VA position for a reason. Sure it’s not for everyone but this forum is extremely biased.

 

[dpmgrad]

These comments are based on the posters’ experiences from a few of their own student rotations many years ago, and largely opinions they’ve developed and continue to propagate, none of this is factual. Students’ priorities are different from that time period and I dare say many of these comments are dated and inaccurate. Most of the VAs in big cities have multiple attendings doing RF and ankle and do not compete with ortho. The cases are there even without external rotations in many places, sure not all but again PP faces the same problems. Patients are extremely appreciative and most do prefer VA care and if they choose community it’s because of wait times. Wound care is light years ahead because of the available resources. We are chronically understaffed and hundreds of pods apply for one VA position for a reason. Sure it’s not for everyone but this forum is extremely biased.

I agree with the fact that there are some VAs (especially 1a and 1b facilities) in this country that are doing major reconstructive foot and ankle surgeries, TARs, foot and ankle fracture management, in addition to traditional limb salvage surgeries. I know of a colleague that got all of his cases for foot and RRA within 2 years working at one of the aforementioned VAs as a new graduate from residency. As you mentioned, there are several VA Podiatry services that handle all of the foot and ankle stuff and remain unopposed by Ortho because Ortho much rather hire someone does adult reconstruction, upper extremity, or sports medicine than a foot and ankle orthopod. Many of these VAs simply do not have any Podiatry residency program associated with them or might get a resident from teaching affiliate hospital system scrubbing a case occasionally. Lastly, in my area, many veterans actually opt to get their care in the local area VA hospital than get care through community care.

 

[air bud]

I’m hoping some current and former VA residents will respond, so that students can make informed decisions in the future. I’ve never understood all the hate towards the VA. Especially when not all VAs are created equal. I agree that there are many subpar VA programs, but there are also many non-VA programs that provide mediocre training. When applying to clerkships, I was initially hesitant to apply to VAs because of all the negative comments I had seen regarding VAs on this forum. However, after talking to a VA resident, I decided to apply to an equal amount of VAs & non-VAs to see for myself.

During clerkships I was only impressed by one of my non-VA rotations. At some of the big-name/highly desired programs, the attendings seemed to be more focused on stroking their egos than patient care. Some of the residents could barely tie their shoes. The 3rd year residents also did not seem as confident in the OR. There was an entire month where I saw nothing but I&Ds and toe amps. Not even 1 single bunion. When I asked how often they had rearfoot cases, the resident’s response was “rearfoot isn’t that important, it’s not like we’re going to do much of it in the future”. I later found out that most bunion and rearfoot cases went to ortho. But that particular hospital did not respect podiatry.

Sure, the VA is clinic heavy, but from what I’ve been told, surgery only makes up about 10% of private practice. Why not get used to heavy clinic if that's what I’ll be doing 90% of the time post-residency? Unless I work for a hospital, but there are so few positions available. The residents and attendings at my VA rotations were far more compassionate and had great rapport with their patients. They placed a strong emphasis on teaching. Most of the veterans presented with multiple comorbidities, and advanced chronic conditions, which I think gives residents lots of experience managing challenging cases.

The VA seems more invested in teaching. Many have affiliations with some of the top academic institutions across the country (Palo Alto – Stanford, Puget Sound – University of Washington, etc.). Residents at VAs work more closely with attendings. I hardly ever saw the attendings outside of the OR at my non-VA rotations, with the exception of 2 programs. I found serving those who have served our country very rewarding. Veterans are so appreciative of the care they receive. You learn a lot about what they've been through. I had never even heard of agent orange prior to my time at the VA. Sure CPRS sucks, but hopefully switching to Cerner will be better. No system is perfect, and every program has areas for growth. I think people should select programs based on their interests and learning style, rather than whether or not it’s at a VA. Just thought I’d share a different perspective, as well as get some insight from others.

Lol. While some are terrible, many are actually just mediocre. Why the hate?

 

[Feli]

...Plenty of current VA attendings graduate from these top tier non VA programs...

Ok, now this is impossible to call out or say "name ten" ...
...since DVA (or IHS, or active military) do not post their staff doctors' names/training (for podiatry or otherwise). Whether they refrain from doing that because many VA docs are not board cert (MD/DO, not so much podiatrists since parity pay) or whether they do it because docs change over, they simply do not publish directories in the way almost any private hospital or office shows their docs' profiles and training.

However, depending on what you consider a "top tier non VA programs," I assure you that most grads of Inova, Swedish, UPMC, PSL, Orlando, etc are simply not rushing to usajobs to apply to a VAMC podiatry job with limited resources and making roughly $225k salary and having their career peak+plateau before 40 years old. They simply are not... maybe 2%?.

Do some attendings trained in non-VA settings with pretty good - occasionally even elite - residency end up at VA later in their career? Sure. I know some personally. One just posted above. It happens. It's seldom a first option (for DPMs who didn't "grow up" in the VA system) to try a VA job as it's just such a different work culture, but it's a fine mid/late career option for reasonable income and workload. Podiatry's [super] saturated, and even some good/elite training grads struggle to find good income, good job setting in private sector.

... Most of the VAs in big cities have multiple attendings doing RF and ankle and do not compete with ortho. The cases are there even without external rotations in many places, sure not all but again PP faces the same problems. ...

Yes, that is a good thing. However, two major holes in that thinking:

1) It's some of the VAs, not most (in big cities or overall). Many do not have that, and they are still just pathetic pod residency programs... with funding will now likely become sketchy. The many pod student and resident horror stories of VA rotations and residencies with endless C&C and wounds with very little surgery are not fiction. I've worked in the system (2yr IHS), and it doesn't lend itself to efficiency or academics. But "if you've seen one VA, you've seen one VA."

2) "Multiple attendings doing RF and ankle" with good training who do cases at the main residency hospital is a bare minimum requirement. It's not some brag point to have that. It is simply essential... a core need for a training program. There should really be dozens of such competent and academic and surgically busy attendings on staff at primary facility for any program (as the top podiatry residencies have - and 99% of MD/DO surgery ACGME residencies have).

 

[ttlope04]

These comments are based on the posters’ experiences from a few of their own student rotations many years ago, and largely opinions they’ve developed and continue to propagate, none of this is factual. Students’ priorities are different from that time period and I dare say many of these comments are dated and inaccurate. Most of the VAs in big cities have multiple attendings doing RF and ankle and do not compete with ortho. The cases are there even without external rotations in many places, sure not all but again PP faces the same problems. Patients are extremely appreciative and most do prefer VA care and if they choose community it’s because of wait times. Wound care is light years ahead because of the available resources. We are chronically understaffed and hundreds of pods apply for one VA position for a reason. Sure it’s not for everyone but this forum is extremely biased.

I agree. These comments are extremely outdated, which is likely why OP wanted to hear from current and former VA residents. One of the loudest naysayers in this forum trained at a program that has scrambled the past few years, including this one. Must not be that great. If you graduated more than 10 years ago, your opinion is irrelevant. Even more so if you finished 15+ years ago. Allow people to share their experiences. If you are secure in your training, you wouldn’t feel the need to bash others. SDN has been nicknamed “the toxic playground” at many schools for this exact reason.

 

[BelowKneeSandwich]

I agree. These comments are extremely outdated, which is likely why OP wanted to hear from current and former VA residents. One of the loudest naysayers in this forum trained at a program that has scrambled the past few years, including this one. Must not be that great. If you graduated more than 10 years ago, your opinion is irrelevant. Even more so if you finished 15+ years ago. Allow people to share their experiences. If you are secure in your training, you wouldn’t feel the need to bash others. SDN has been nicknamed “the toxic playground” at many schools for this exact reason.

This thread could be such a wonderful resource for so many students, but instead we tear each other down and each others training. EVERY PROGRAM HAS FLAWS, NO PROGRAM IS PERFECT. Its not like VA's and non-VA programs haven't improved in the past 10 years.

The point I think everyone is forgetting what makes podiatry so diverse as a specialty. Not everyone wants the same thing out of their podiatry training. Not everyone wants to be cranking out dozens of surgeries every day. Not everyone wants to be in clinic for 40 hours a week. Others want balance. There's nothing wrong with clinic heavy programs. It may not be what you want, but its a fit for someone else.

Like I said before the point of OPs thread is to bring awareness of what DVA programs can offer. But instead some people on insist on the narrative of "LETS BASH THE VA"

Come on people, we should better than this. Some of y'all have such big chips on your shoulders that the only way you can justify your career path is by talking down other peoples paths to make yourself see "better qualified". Not every doctor can treat every patient. So put down that ego and show the next generation of podiatrists some solidarity.

 

[Adam Smasher]

Like I said before the point of OPs thread is to bring awareness of what DVA programs can offer. But instead some people on insist on the narrative of "LETS BASH THE VA"

Lol, the name of the thread is literally "why does the VA get so much hate?" So of course we're coming in to tell you why we hate on the VA. OP asked for it.

Also saying that the veterans who go to the VA go there because they prefer to is called "selection bias." You don't know which veterans prefer not to go to the VA because they're not coming to the VA. I could go on about my tricare pts but I'll leave it at that.

As to the students, for sure you can do worse than a lot of VA programs, but you can also do way better. I always thought they were solid but the clinic hours made the juice not worth the squeeze.

Edit: I like "toxic playground"

 

[Feli]

.... Not everyone wants the same thing out of their podiatry training. Not everyone wants to be cranking out dozens of surgeries every day. ...

Correct.

But it's a 300k+, often 400k+ proposition to do podiatry school + residency.
The point of podiatry residency is to learn surgery (hence how all residencies are named).
Having a good skill set afterwards is not illogical.

As for pod schools, yeah... SDN calls out their reckless expansion, tuition inflation, false promises, low accept standards repeatedly. I'm sure most of them discredit or dismiss SDN as much as they can.

...at the end of the day, it's each person's own training; it's their career. If people want to be happy with VA training or ABPM or whatever when better is available, that's their thing. Again, seven or more years and $300k+ investment. I would call it out anytime a questionable idea is recommended as a best path to success or best ROI from the DPM degree, though.

And yes, to repeat, the thread is called "Why Does the VA Get So Much Hate?" So, yes... you have pretty logical answers, based on that. 🙂

....I hope dude does not tell his 10 or 15yr exp attendings they're irrelevant dinosaurs on Monday... they might not let him triple scrub their TMAs anymore. 😉

 

[SweetFeet04]

Correct.

But it's a 300k+, often 400k+ proposition to do podiatry school + residency.
The point of podiatry residency is to learn surgery (hence how all residencies are named).
Having a good skill set afterwards is not illogical.

As for pod schools, yeah... SDN calls out their reckless expansion, tuition inflation, false promises, low accept standards repeatedly. I'm sure most of them discredit or dismiss SDN as much as they can.

...at the end of the day, it's each person's own training; it's their career. If people want to be happy with VA training or ABPM or whatever when better is available, that's their thing. Again, seven or more years and $300k+ investment. I would call it out anytime a questionable idea is recommended as a best path to success or best ROI from the DPM degree, though.

And yes, to repeat, the thread is called "Why Does the VA Get So Much Hate?" So, yes... you have pretty logical answers, based on that. 🙂

....I hope dude does not tell his 10 or 15yr exp attendings they're irrelevant dinosaurs on Monday... they might not let him triple scrub their TMAs anymore. 😉

It’s us students that call it the toxic playground, not admin lol. Haven't you noticed how much the number of posts made by students has declined the past few years?

 

[deleted1162946]

It’s us students that call it the toxic playground, not admin lol. Haven't you noticed how much the number of posts made by students has declined the past few years?

thats because Gen Z uses tiktok not forums.

 

[Adam Smasher]

Haven't you noticed how much the number of posts made by students has declined the past few years?

This correlates with the decline in the number of students the past few years

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

I agree. These comments are extremely outdated, which is likely why OP wanted to hear from current and former VA residents. One of the loudest naysayers in this forum trained at a program that has scrambled the past few years, including this one. Must not be that great. If you graduated more than 10 years ago, your opinion is irrelevant. Even more so if you finished 15+ years ago. Allow people to share their experiences. If you are secure in your training, you wouldn’t feel the need to bash others. SDN has been nicknamed “the toxic playground” at many schools for this exact reason.

We won't be considered toxic when you graduate from a VA residency with minimal skills (forefoot/toe surgery experience and basic wound care skills) signing a private practice associate contract for 100-125K and an impossible bonus structure. Try paying off your student loans on that salary.

My oldest brother is a middle school teacher for 20+ years and makes more money than that. Lots of jobs that don't require taking out loans and 7 years of your time pay more than that.

Podiatry is a great career. The financial reward to LIVE is not equal to compared to MD/DO. Majority of resident graduates are going into private practice making hardly anything. There are not a lot of alternative ways to use the DPM degree compared to MD/DO.

Kaiser hospital system used to be the golden ticket in podiatry but that even locks podiatrists into a max salary of 275K-300K with no bonus structure and you get to live in the most expensive state in the country getting taxed to death.

These are all things they don't tell you in school and residency. When reality sits in you are on your own. The schools and residencies got their money and time. Rinse and repeat.

 

[air bud]

I agree. These comments are extremely outdated, which is likely why OP wanted to hear from current and former VA residents. One of the loudest naysayers in this forum trained at a program that has scrambled the past few years, including this one. Must not be that great. If you graduated more than 10 years ago, your opinion is irrelevant. Even more so if you finished 15+ years ago. Allow people to share their experiences. If you are secure in your training, you wouldn’t feel the need to bash others. SDN has been nicknamed “the toxic playground” at many schools for this exact reason.

To be fair here ....this is correct. Programs change fast. Admin, director, attendings etc all are in flux constantly. Maybe if we had more universal training standards....

 

[Weirdy]

Went through 4-5 VAs US wide and 4-5 normal /decent/under the radar programs.

There were great and terrible attendings, residents, students at both.

2-3 of 5 VAs had a lot less surgery.

VA life is VA life. Those who have been there or work there understand what I mean.
Nothing gets done in the bureaucracy.
Pushing for change as an individual was frustrating and futile when others didn't see why things should get better.

Doesn't mean the people who work there and try their best should be shamed.

Really enjoyed taking care of the veterans and hearing about their experiences.
Majority of the VA attendings were strong advocates for their patients and meant well even if the cases they were doing were not as complex.
Majority of the residents there were also good people who were just trying to pickup as many skills as possible before they graduated.
I could see and respect that.

Try your best to keep it friendly guys.

 

[footpainhealer]

Lol dude I rotated as a student within the last 4 years (so not outdated info) at 3 BIG VA's in the west (all as mandatory rotations for school, not actual externships) and all were nail jails and crappy wound care, as in, debride and betadine soaked DSD only. No effort was ever made to offload ulcers with simple cases like floating met osteotomies, exostectomies, rotational flaps, ex-fixes, etc. Just the same crap coming in daily that gets debrided with a curette, with no effort by attendings to fix any of it and the residents wouldn't even know what surgical options there are out there without having someone to teach them the stuff I just mentioned lol.

One of the places I went, a THIRD!!!!! year was double scrubbing a hallux amp with the first year to get his total procedure numbers up, I saw the director with a resident trying to finagle a procedure into a different category on PRR, I saw a resident make the right call in suggesting to the attending to go to the OR for achilles detach/reattach with tendon debridement and the attending literally panicked and said no, bear in mind they had failed over a year a conservative measures and even got cardiology involved to optimize them a

Another one the VA's I was at, the attending was scrubbed to with 2 residents for a basic SER4 bimall fx with zero comminutia, and did not know how to reduce a fibula and had the nurse call ANOTHER ATTENDING from the clinic upstairs to come down and tell her what to do. And the other attending literally came up and walked them through it. I can't even imagine what the anesthesiologist or hardware rep were thinking LMAO.

No one is lying to you when they say to avoid if you can.

 

[wonderfulspirit]

I'm a 4th year pod student about to match soon. I have rotated at several VAs. VA SF being one of the worst experiences as a student. The faculty do not want to teach and make everything about themselves, sometimes scolding you in front of the patients. That is not professional, and that does not foster a good teaching environment. Other VAs have been great. I've also rotated at VA-Palo Alto and it is night and day compared to VA-SF. My top program I want to match into has us rotate through a VA during first year. I feel like that is a better experience than doing a whole residency at a VA. Just a thought.

 

[DogSnoot]

VA is “Where Dreams Go To Die”

 

[Dr. Extra]

VA Cleveland is awful. All Kent students are forced to do rotations there. Most of the attending flee the premises by noon. Students and residents stay until 5 to finish seeing the patients. Some of the attending are openly racist and they know they can’t get fired so make your life a living hell. Two of the residency programs (Mercy Health and Cleveland Clinic) are slowly pulling away from the residents doing cases at the VA and so they are trying to start a new residency program at the VA to do their dirty work. It would benefit the profession as a whole if we part away with VA sponsored programs.

 

[deleted1162946]

. Some of the attending are openly racist and they know they can’t get fired so make your life a living hell.

proof? And how is your life hell as a student clipping nails?

 

[air bud]

proof? And how is your life hell as a student clipping nails?

The same way your life is hell clipping nails as an attending?

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Those feet fought for freedom. I clip with pride and make sure they don’t lose the battle to fungus.

 

[deleted1162946]

Those feet fought for freedom. I clip with pride and make sure they don’t lose the battle to fungus.

That’s why you’re a good doctor.

Can you round off the edge on this one?

 

[Bored Snorlax]

That’s why you’re a good doctor.

Can you round off the edge on this one?

Ofc. I’m not sending the boys back out with sharp corners. We round edges and boost morale... just gotta flash that Q mod at the door.

 

[air bud]

Those feet fought for freedom. I clip with pride and make sure they don’t lose the battle to fungus.

Meme incoming