Does the pharmacy school you graduate really matter for residency?

[berkana]

Hi all,
I recently got accepted to Midwestern - Downers Grove and I have been contemplating waiting another year to reapply. I want to do a residency after graduating and Midwestern is more community based rather than clinical. I know rankings aren't everything but I wonder if going to a higher ranked or more reputable school will help my chances and offer me more opportunities. My grades are not very good (3.0 cum) but I have 3 years of pharmacy experience in a clinic retail pharmacy, strong letter of recommendations from my pharmacists, and strong interviewing skills.

Thanks for your 2 cents.

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[DrDrugs2012]

The answer is both yes and no. Do students from schools with more community-based curricula land residencies? Yes. Do they secure the same percentage of "prestigious" residencies with "prestigious" programs? No. There are even a few residency programs which (foolishly) only interview/accept applicants from "top schools". However, if you are confident in your abilities to both excel in the classroom and seek out professional development opportunities which will set you apart from your future competition, then there is no reason you cannot find a residency which is a good fit for you.

 

[crazybob]

The location where you currently live might make a difference to some programs, but to most it won't matter. They look at other reasons to rank you and not rank you in the match process.

 

[714]

If you got into pharmacy school just go. Don't waste another year filling out the same apps and doing the interview thing again.

 

[joetrisman]

The answer is both yes and no. Do students from schools with more community-based curricula land residencies? Yes. Do they secure the same percentage of "prestigious" residencies with "prestigious" programs? No. There are even a few residency programs which (foolishly) only interview/accept applicants from "top schools". However, if you are confident in your abilities to both excel in the classroom and seek out professional development opportunities which will set you apart from your future competition, then there is no reason you cannot find a residency which is a good fit for you.

This. I speak from perspective of someone who applied from a new school with competitive stats but was granted very few interviews for residency.

 

[Pharmdoc2013]

Hi all,
I recently got accepted to Midwestern - Downers Grove and I have been contemplating waiting another year to reapply. I want to do a residency after graduating and Midwestern is more community based rather than clinical. I know rankings aren't everything but I wonder if going to a higher ranked or more reputable school will help my chances and offer me more opportunities. My grades are not very good (3.0 cum) but I have 3 years of pharmacy experience in a clinic retail pharmacy, strong letter of recommendations from my pharmacists, and strong interviewing skills.

Thanks for your 2 cents.

No, the school does not matter. The rotations are what matters. Midwestern has enough clinical rotations for you to get a residency. Although, Chicago is very saturated so when u do get to the point where you're applying for residencies, apply multiple cities and multiple states. So bottom line, go to Midwestern! Don't sit out a year. Btw, I'm a fourth year that just got matched. I came from a small school and got 7 out of 9 interviews

 

[Skrumpy]

I've heard from many nowadays that the school does matter, much more than it did even just a few years ago. It is getting rather competitive and it is looking to get even worse in the next coming years. Just 5-6 years ago it was possible for new grads (with extensive hospital experience) to get staff positions without a residency (though it wasn't preferred). That hasn't happened now in quite some time and my supervisor told me they have a huge list of applicants and have had to develop new criteria to weed people out. Personally, I asked each of the student panels (for the schools I interviewed at) how worried they were about residencies. The ones from the new school seemed visibly worried and said they were planning on putting in extra effort to stand out. The ones from the established school didn't really think much about it as they said with the numerous school activities offered it was hard not to stand out as an applicant. Perhaps needless to say I decided to not send in my deposit to the new school, despite not knowing if I had yet gotten into the established school. I felt that in today's market it was worth the risk of waiting and not getting in. There were other factors as well that contributed to my decision, but in the end you will need to decide what makes the most sense for your future.

 

[Starshipp]

That assumption that MWU CCP is a community focused school is still going around? I thought the older 10+ threads have already cleared this up. You should read the older threads regarding this issue before you decide on anything.

 

[DrDrugs2012]

No, the school does not matter.

Trust me, I know this to be false.

While where you go isn't as important as what you did when you were there, the fact remains that prestige stubbornly remains a stratifying factor among a group of applicants of perceived equal merit.

As I mentioned, it is not the case that students from 'less reputable' schools cannot land a residency. But the percent of students accepted into the 'prestigious' residencies from the 'more reputable' pharmacy schools is overwhelming. Can you still secure a prestigious residency from a less prestigious school? Of course - but the climb is significantly higher and the road more treacherous. THAT is the golden takeaway.

Please note my derision of the terms less reputable and prestigious. I think its a load of hogwash. A good student is a good student - period. ​

All you have to do is ask yourself:

Is the team that wins the division 1 college football national championship better than, equal to or worse than the team that wins the division 1-aa or division 2 or 3 college football national championship. Chances are that each of them went undefeated. Their resumes are proportionately equal - so why are they not equal teams?

 

[fischenl]

No, the school does not matter. The rotations are what matters. Midwestern has enough clinical rotations for you to get a residency. Although, Chicago is very saturated so when u do get to the point where you're applying for residencies, apply multiple cities and multiple states. So bottom line, go to Midwestern! Don't sit out a year. Btw, I'm a fourth year that just got matched. I came from a small school and got 7 out of 9 interviews

This is very false. I emailed the woman who is the director of pharmacy residencies at UVA and this is what she told me.

"As part of our residency screening process, we evaluate a number of factors some of which include academic success, variety of clinical experience acquired in advanced practice rotations, and US News and World Report school ranking. Additionally, graduation from an ACPE-accredited school of pharmacy is an application requirement. Attending a new school of pharmacy will likely place you at a disadvantage with respect to clinical experience and will negatively impact the school ranking score."

 

[radio frequency]

This is very false. I emailed the woman who is the director of pharmacy residencies at UVA and this is what she told me.

"As part of our residency screening process, we evaluate a number of factors some of which include academic success, variety of clinical experience acquired in advanced practice rotations, and US News and World Report school ranking. Additionally, graduation from an ACPE-accredited school of pharmacy is an application requirement. Attending a new school of pharmacy will likely place you at a disadvantage with respect to clinical experience and will negatively impact the school ranking score."

This is the first time I've ever heard that, but it makes me happy. 😍

 

[Starshipp]

This is very false. I emailed the woman who is the director of pharmacy residencies at UVA and this is what she told me.

"As part of our residency screening process, we evaluate a number of factors some of which include academic success, variety of clinical experience acquired in advanced practice rotations, and US News and World Report school ranking. Additionally, graduation from an ACPE-accredited school of pharmacy is an application requirement. Attending a new school of pharmacy will likely place you at a disadvantage with respect to clinical experience and will negatively impact the school ranking score."

I'm going to email the director of UVA and I will copy and paste what you quoted to see if this is true. If it is true that they look at us news and world report for ranking then they are discriminating students, which is disrespectful and unprofessional. If this is false then you have some explaining to do.

 

[Skrumpy]

Yea, that is something that quite a few people don't seem to know enough about when they accept an invitation to a new school. I guess if they are planning on going straight to retail it won't make a difference as long as they have the degree. It can have a pretty huge impact on residency as evidenced above.

 

[scienceguy13]

If it is true that they look at us news and world report for ranking then they are discriminating students, which is disrespectful and unprofessional.

New pharmacy schools deserve to be discriminated against, as well as the students that attend them. They are the reason the profession is suffering.

 

[Skrumpy]

I'm going to email the director of UVA and I will copy and paste what you quoted to see if this is true. If it is true that they look at us news and world report for ranking then they are discriminating students, which is disrespectful and unprofessional. If this is false then you have some explaining to do.

LoL.. you will have a lot of calling to do if you think this is a lie and that UVA is the only place that looks at where you graduated from as part of their criteria. It isn't any more "disrespectful and unprofessional" than pharmacy schools looking at your ECs and where you went to undergrad as part of your application. There is no such thing as "school discrimination" so good luck with that. Residencies are getting ultra competitive and it will only get worse as more schools open. This is one of the reasons I decided against a newer school that had not yet graduated their first class. The school looked fine and I was impressed with everything.. but there are way to many things going against new programs (lack of national ranking, lack of prestige, lack of opportunities for EC involvement, lack of notoriety, etc, etc..).

New pharmacy schools deserve to be discriminated against, as well as the students that attend them. They are the reason the profession is suffering.

I wouldn't go that far. Some of these new schools are better than others. However, it takes a long time for schools to become well known in the community as either a good or a bad school. Why take a chance on a graduate from an unproven school when you have 5-6 from schools with a proven track record for excellence?

 

[radio frequency]

I'm going to email the director of UVA and I will copy and paste what you quoted to see if this is true. If it is true that they look at us news and world report for ranking then they are discriminating students, which is disrespectful and unprofessional. If this is false then you have some explaining to do.

Really?

Life isn't fair. People discriminate for all sorts of reasons outside of pharmacy school. Why hire the student who has a BS over the student with an AA? Why interview the Harvard graduate over the Western Michigan graduate? It's not at all surprising to think it should also happen in pharmacy. Get used to it!

 

[Starshipp]

Really?

Life isn't fair. People discriminate for all sorts of reasons outside of pharmacy school. Why hire the student who has a BS over the student with an AA? Why interview the Harvard graduate over the Western Michigan graduate? It's not at all surprising to think it should also happen in pharmacy. Get used to it!

Really?

Life isn't fair. People discriminate for all sorts of reasons outside of pharmacy school. Why hire the student who has a BS over the student with an AA? Why interview the Harvard graduate over the Western Michigan graduate? It's not at all surprising to think it should also happen in pharmacy. Get used to it!

I never said that discrimination doesn't happen. It does. I just don't believe that the director would email you and actually admit that they use US News and World Report Pharm school rankings as a way to choose residency candidates. That's just a red flag right there. I'm sure they would rather choose students from more established schools. However, to actually admit it is a different story. That's admitting that they discriminate and that makes them look bad as an institution. You get it now??

 

[radio frequency]

I never said that discrimination doesn't happen. It does. I just don't believe that the director would email you and actually admit that they use US News and World Report Pharm school rankings as a way to choose residency candidates. That's just a red flag right there. I'm sure they would rather choose students from more established schools. However, to actually admit it is a different story. That's admitting that they discriminate and that makes them look bad as an institution. You get it now??

We all know they discriminate from one candidate to another. What makes this any different? I don't think it makes them look bad or discriminatory at all; I think it makes them look smart. I don't see why admitting this is a bad thing. Google has admitted they prefer to hire from specific schools. This is common at many companies.

If I was a residency director, I wouldn't be hiring from new schools because the quality of the students could be very variable and there isn't much history to back them up. Additionally, the schools ranked more highly on the US News and World Report often seem to have higher statistics for applicant GPA, PCAT, etc, so they probably draw stronger students in general (there are outliers for every school, but it's a fairly safe bet to say the average student at established schools is likely a better student than the average student at newer schools). It's a bigger risk for residency directors to take on students from new schools, so why take it? Established schools all the way.

 

[PharmLife4Me]

Rubber bands last longer when refrigerated...

 

[Skrumpy]

I never said that discrimination doesn't happen. It does. I just don't believe that the director would email you and actually admit that they use US News and World Report Pharm school rankings as a way to choose residency candidates. That's just a red flag right there. I'm sure they would rather choose students from more established schools. However, to actually admit it is a different story. That's admitting that they discriminate and that makes them look bad as an institution. You get it now??

Did you email yet? I am anxious to see what you get for a response.

 

[Textbookversion]

I'm going to email the director of UVA and I will copy and paste what you quoted to see if this is true. If it is true that they look at us news and world report for ranking then they are discriminating students, which is disrespectful and unprofessional. If this is false then you have some explaining to do.

Hilarious post. I should come to the pharmacy forums more often.

 

[Illinette2012]

I'm sure they would rather choose students from more established schools. However, to actually admit it is a different story. That's admitting that they discriminate and that makes them look bad as an institution. You get it now??

I have a seminar every week with a handful of my peers and our faculty advisor. We have a few guest speakers throughout each semester, and today we had a pharmacist that works for a major industry company. His job includes hiring the pharmacists that work for the company. He flat out told us he only will hire pharmacists from established colleges of pharmacy (and that he does not believe every COP that is open has opened to advance the profession). I certainly didn't think it made him or the company look bad by saying this. With so many schools opening, this is the direction I believe hiring is ultimately going to be heading in. Even industry is starting to take this approach.