Does the "prestige" of your training program matter when applying for a job?

[StanleyCup7]

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The title pretty much says it all.

1. When applying for a job, does it matter where you trained in terms of securing a better job and/or higher paying job?

OR

2. Does a group/hospital say we have an opening that pays $ x dollars/hour and if he/she is from a decent/reputable place then we will take him/her. However, we are not going to pay more just because he/she is from a more "prestigous" program.

3. I am having a hard time figuring out the whole "prestige" thing in EM. For example, even though the University of Michigan may be more "prestigious" could you get just as good/if not better training at Henry Ford Hospital (in Detroit)?

4. Does the "prestige" thing matter only for your first job? I mean, if you have been licensed and working for 10-15 years, do they really care as much were you did your residency?

Thanks for all of your insight and help. I ask these questions b/c I am an MS3 trying to figure out where I might want to do my away rotations. I am somewhat new to the EM world, so I am very grateful for any and all advice. 🙂

 

[zinjanthropus]

doesn't matter for the income part...might matter slightly for the type of job part (meaning to get into academics)...but, academics pay much less than the private world and you can do just fine right now based on the law of supply and demand more than anything else

 

[southerndoc]

I think it's all about connections in EM. If everything is the same, then a better name in residency/medical school might give you a competing edge.

You should really go where you think you'll get better training.

If I remember correctly, this topic was discussed before in another thread.

 

[leorl]

I think more places probably concentrate on proficiency aspects that they ask you when you job interview. Ie: "how many patients did you see per hour," "do you feel comfortable dropping a transvenous pacer," etc. They want to know more how you move an ED.

 

[Eric714]

I think the prestige of your training program may "get you in the door." But I agree with the other posters, it depends what you're looking for in a job. Do you want more money? Do you want to do something academic, in a "big name" institution? Do you want location? Do you want benefits? Etc.

I think it's tough to get that dream job straight out of residency. Once, you're experienced and board-certified, more doors will open for you in terms of jobs. From what I remember, there's a good number of docs that will change jobs in their 1st 2 years of being an attending.

 

[Arcan57]

I agree that connections matter more than prestige. Many of the "big name" programs have connections that span multiple geographic areas. This makes it easier to land a good job (especially unadvertised) out of your residency's region. However, I have to think that a group's past experience with a program's graduates is probably more influential than a name.

You're not going to make more money coming from a name program. If you're being brought in with a specific task (ie start an ultrasound program, run EMS, etc.), they may offload your clinical hours or offer a stipend but I wouldn't expect a higher hourly rate.

Out in the community your value is dependent on: pts/hr, RVU/pt, not pissing off your consultants/patients, and not being a medicolegal risk. It's unlikely that a new grad from one program versus another (given equal recommendations) would be enough standard deviations above the mean on any of those to make it worthwhile offering a signing bonus.

 

[Apollyon]

The prestige only works in a local area - where I trained, there was another guy who was there 14 years before me, and the name (but not necessarily the program) carries the weight.

Who you are as a person is a MUCH bigger thing - if you trained at Hospital "T", you'll be asked about what you thought of Dr. "U". If s/he didn't like you, you have to be cagey.

 

[Greenbbs]

absolutely not....it has no bearing unless you want to teach at one of the major meccas of academia.

if you're good, you're good. remember, crappy docs come from prestigious programs too.

 

[atelectasis]

What do you mean by "prestige"? EM "prestige" or Medical School/Hospital "prestige"? I'm only a med student but isn't it arguable that Henry Ford/UCinncinnati/Denver/HCMC, etc. has more "prestige" in EM than Michigan/MGH/Mayo/JHU (which are clearly more "prestigious" overall). I find myself asking the OP's question sometimes and often conflate the two.

I would like to add to OP's question and ask about RRC in addition. Most folks in the biz tell me that due to RRC's standards, there is great equality amongst the programs and most or all programs will train you to be a passable EDP. So how do we really know that? And thus, how do medstudents know that they are applying to a program that will prepare them to be hired anywhere in this country (especially in PP)? Or are we overthinking it and there really is great parity amongst the programs (and should base match rankings on geography)?

Sorry, I haven't used the search function but I have been lurking in the EM forum for awhile now and can't really recall any elaboration on this.

Thank you!

Edit: Oh, and I apologize if you consider this threadjacking, I just thought it built off the OP's questions. I'll delete my post if requested.

 

[RxnMan]

...Sorry, I haven't used the search function but I have been lurking in the EM forum for awhile now and can't really recall any elaboration on this...

Poster AmoryBlaine has an excellent thread on this exact topic.

 

[atelectasis]

^^^

That's a great thread. Thanks!

 

[docB]

For community jobs I agree with the connections point reaised by others earlier. I would say going to a "big name" is less important that having others from your program working for the same gorup. We have hired 4 guys from the same program over the last few years.

 

[RxnMan]

^^^

That's a great thread. Thanks!

Take a look at the FAQ. Buried in there is a post of links I started (but never finished), all with great links.

 

[StanleyCup7]

Thanks for all of the great replies.
My question was pertaining to salary and geography specifically.
After reading the responses, it seems to me that a group will pay $ x dollars/hour and "they" really aren't too concerned with where you trained as long as it is a decent, reputable program AND:
1. You can "move the meat".
2. You are a guy that works hard and can play nice with others.
3. You are board certified.

If anyone else has any knowledge/insight/advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. 😉

 

[docB]

Thanks for all of the great replies.
My question was pertaining to salary and geography specifically.
After reading the responses, it seems to me that a group will pay $ x dollars/hour and "they" really aren't too concerned with where you trained as long as it is a decent, reputable program AND:
1. You can "move the meat".
2. You are a guy that works hard and can play nice with others.
3. You are board certified.

If anyone else has any knowledge/insight/advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. 😉

I would say that's a good summary and that really is what 90% of the community groups want.

Other things would be special interest areas that a particular group wants. For example a group that is instituting US might want someone who is particularly interested in US. Others might be EMS, CP obs, peds, etc.

Some community groups may find themselves teaching even though they don't have an actual EM residency. In that case someone who is interested in teaching would be an extra.