Does this contract really say what I think it says?

[Sebastian.]

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Members do not see this ad.

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[mmmmdonuts]

Does this mean that if they wanted to fire you all they have to do is point to ony minute clause in a rule book and give you the boot with no due process?

yes. since 'professionalism' is one of the clauses, and that's purely subjective you could be fired at any time for practically anything. sure you might win if you sued but that's expensive and time-consuming. but relax. youre gonna have to sign it anyway so who cares? 😀

 

[Needleandthread]

The potential for abuse and evil against residents is there and does happen. Luckily, it doesn't happen that often. I'd say it is "not too common" but much more common than "extremely rare". You can sue, but the first thing they will do is try to claim immunity from suit. Sometimes it even works. If it does work, they don't even have to show that anything happened or didn't happen, they just claim immunity from lawsuits! I've studied law and know!

I wish practicing surgeons had immunity from lawsuits!

 

[thatguyagain]

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Yup, I'd definately fire your for
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there is no doubt about it

 

[NJ-MDdoc]

Yup, I'd definately fire your for
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there is no doubt about it

I doubt you can fire anyone.



👎 👎 👎 👎 👎
__________________________________________________ _________
Results of medical exam are under investigation
Monday, September 26, 2005
BY ANGELA STEWART
Star-Ledger Staff
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=251592
The probe, which began in mid-August, focuses on the hospital's surgical training department and the facility's director of surgery, Rolando Rolandelli, according to Robert Rhodes, associate executive director of the board.

 

[thatguyagain]

I doubt you can fire anyone.

My poker face always did suck.

 

[Needleandthread]

I doubt you can fire anyone.


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Funny, I must have worked with Stalinist chairmen and you haven't. During residency, fellowship, and continuing to the present time, I have seen about a dozen residents fired. About half of them were unjustified and just plain lynchings and about half of them involved bad residents. I've also seen bad residents (often better looking residents) get through with the chair or program director not giving them any trouble.

Sometimes, the medical school sets the tone, i.e. whether lynchings are permitted or whether the school is afraid of trouble or fighting the fired resident. Perhaps in New Jersey, the medical school doesn't want to be involved in trouble? On the other hand, lynching was not a problem in NJ historically.

 

[NJ-MDdoc]

My poker face always did suck.

thatguyagain:
My poker face always did suck.

I know! We know all the monsters behind the poker face.

 

[NJ-MDdoc]

Funny, I must have worked with Stalinist chairmen and you haven't. During residency, fellowship, and continuing to the present time, I have seen about a dozen residents fired. About half of them were unjustified and just plain lynchings and about half of them involved bad residents. I've also seen bad residents (often better looking residents) get through with the chair or program director not giving them any trouble.

Sometimes, the medical school sets the tone, i.e. whether lynchings are permitted or whether the school is afraid of trouble or fighting the fired resident. Perhaps in New Jersey, the medical school doesn't want to be involved in trouble? On the other hand, lynching was not a problem in NJ historically.

Needleandthread:
Funny, I must have worked with Stalinist chairmen and you haven't. During residency, fellowship, and continuing to the present time, I have seen about a dozen residents fired. About half of them were unjustified and just plain lynchings and about half of them involved bad residents. I've also seen bad residents (often better looking residents) get through with the chair or program director not giving them any trouble.

Sometimes, the medical school sets the tone, i.e. whether lynchings are permitted or whether the school is afraid of trouble or fighting the fired resident. Perhaps in New Jersey, the medical school doesn't want to be involved in trouble? On the other hand, lynching was not a problem in NJ historically.



Same reply as thatguyagain!

 

[Needleandthread]

Same reply as thatguyagain!

False accusation? Who is this "thatguyagain"?

My observation is that there is a wide variety of behavior among chairmen and departments. I was once associated with a department in a medical school (not a community program) in the Midwest. The residents were well treated. Weaker residents were helped. There were some bad tempers among the faculty, but it wasn't too bad.

Another department in the South was terrible. Residents were fired right and left. Some were weak residents. Others weren't too popular and sometimes were picked on. Some of these residents were unjustly fired. Quite a few residents' careers were ruined. A terrible place to be.

ACGME's statistics is that 280 residents were fired last year. They don't report the number of residents whose contracts were not renewed. My guess is that perhaps 600 residents fall into that category. If so, that's 880 effectively fired residents. Once you get axed, it's next to impossible to continue in surgery. Many end up working in emergency rooms or doing non-competitive fields like family practice.

In my experience, fired residents don't get any meaningful kind of appeal. They just get kicked out with no meaningful way to defend themselves. This has given general surgery an awful reputation to the point that many medical students rule out doing surgery. The medical students may not know about firings but they do sense a lot of bad tempers among surgeons.

If the program in NJ isn't like that, that's good. I happen to know one of the chairs in NJ somewhat. From what I know (and not working with him), he's a decent guy.

 

[scrappy]

Another department in the South was terrible. Residents were fired right and left. Some were weak residents. Others weren't too popular and sometimes were picked on. Some of these residents were unjustly fired. Quite a few residents' careers were ruined. A terrible place to be.

what program is this? plz feel free to pm. also, how does one learn about these things other than word o' mouth? is there some renegade publication out there (more likely to report news than print press releases)?