Does this IA ruin my chances?

[Matt17765]

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So last semester I got an IA for hazing. It was nothing bad- No alcohol was involved, no one was forced to do anything, no one was hurt, it was basically just a ritual that my school didn’t like. If given a chance, I think I can explain the situation really well. My stats are good- 3.9/524. Do you think this will completely ruin my chances? Should I even apply?

@Goro @LizzyM @gyngyn

 

[Rachapkis]

Your stats are quite good, but medical schools will take the IA seriously. I would definitely apply, but be sure to explain thoroughly and be prepared for questions. FWIW--I would be sure not to trivialize what occurred, even if it doesn't seem like a big deal to you. I would own what happened, make clear that you've learned your lesson and will not repeat the behavior.

 

[Catalystik]

So last semester I got an IA for hazing. It was nothing bad- No alcohol was involved, no one was forced to do anything, no one was hurt, it was basically just a ritual that my school didn’t like. If given a chance, I think I can explain the situation really well. My stats are good- 3.9/524. Do you think this will completely ruin my chances? Should I even apply?

@Goro @LizzyM @gyngyn

The tagged individuals will be able to give a more informed opinion if you give details of exactly what you did that constituted "hazing" in the eyes of your school. And what were the repercussions?

 

[Stellaartwa]

So last semester I got an IA for hazing.

I'll be curious to know what our resident adcoms say about this one. I would view this very, very negatively if I were an adcom. On the other hand, if your essays are as good as your stats and show a mature, thoughtful and altruistic person, I might be inclined to overlook this as a youthful mistake. It's hard to guess how this will be viewed without knowing you as a person.

 

[JPmoleymole]

If they do overlook it, at least you’ll be prepared for the hazing that occurs in med school and residency lol

 

[Goro]

So last semester I got an IA for hazing. It was nothing bad- No alcohol was involved, no one was forced to do anything, no one was hurt, it was basically just a ritual that my school didn’t like. If given a chance, I think I can explain the situation really well. My stats are good- 3.9/524. Do you think this will completely ruin my chances? Should I even apply?

@Goro @LizzyM @gyngyn

It really depends upon what you did, and how you own it.

was basically just a ritual that my school didn’t like.

This is really nebulous.

PM if needed.

 

[Matt17765]

I’d rather not go into details on here, but what I can say is no one was made uncomfortable, no alcohol or drugs were involved, no one was forced to do anything, and it was something everyone involved enjoyed that harmed no one. The reason why it was brought to the schools attention is because a person from a rival fraternity found out and reported it, knowing the school has a zero tolerance policy. I go to a large state school that hates greek life, so essentially anything a brother does with a pledge is seen as “hazing” due to power dynamics. The dean who was in charge of the investigation even said that the incident seemed harmless but his hands were tied due to school policy. Me and the other members involved were told to write essays on why what we did was wrong, attend an educational class on hazing, and that this would be on our records. I definitely learned from all of this, I was involved in something very immature and I regret that. I just hope adcoms can see that this was nothing like the hazing you see in the news or in movies, and I’m not some sort of sociopath.

 

[kepler16b]

I wonder if it would be prudent to get a letter from the dean in support of your explanation?

I'm not an expert, I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[JPmoleymole]

I’d rather not go into details on here, but what I can say is no one was made uncomfortable, no alcohol or drugs were involved, no one was forced to do anything, and it was something everyone involved enjoyed that harmed no one. The reason why it was brought to the schools attention is because a person from a rival fraternity found out and reported it, knowing the school has a zero tolerance policy. I go to a large state school that hates greek life, so essentially anything a brother does with a pledge is seen as “hazing” due to power dynamics. The dean who was in charge of the investigation even said that the incident seemed harmless but his hands were tied due to school policy. Me and the other members involved were told to write essays on why what we did was wrong, attend an educational class on hazing, and that this would be on our records. I definitely learned from all of this, I was involved in something very immature and I regret that. I just hope adcoms can see that this was nothing like the hazing you see in the news or in movies, and I’m not some sort of sociopath.

Definelty do not be this vague when you report it, makes it sound like you don’t take it seriously and causes the mind to wonder what you really did

 

[holdthemayo]

I’d rather not go into details on here, but what I can say is no one was made uncomfortable, no alcohol or drugs were involved, no one was forced to do anything, and it was something everyone involved enjoyed that harmed no one. The reason why it was brought to the schools attention is because a person from a rival fraternity found out and reported it, knowing the school has a zero tolerance policy. I go to a large state school that hates greek life, so essentially anything a brother does with a pledge is seen as “hazing” due to power dynamics. The dean who was in charge of the investigation even said that the incident seemed harmless but his hands were tied due to school policy. Me and the other members involved were told to write essays on why what we did was wrong, attend an educational class on hazing, and that this would be on our records. I definitely learned from all of this, I was involved in something very immature and I regret that. I just hope adcoms can see that this was nothing like the hazing you see in the news or in movies, and I’m not some sort of sociopath.

Definelty do not be this vague when you report it, makes it sound like you don’t take it seriously and causes the mind to wonder what you really did

I understand if you don't want to say specifically what happened on SDN, that won't fly when applying. Say exactly what happened, what you did in response, and how you've grown from the experience. Don't leave the specifics up to the reader's imagination, they may imagine something far worse than what actually happened.

Hazing could mean a lot of different things, with repercussions ranging from career-ending to a minor speedbump. Your stats are great. I hope things work out for you.

 

[LizzyM]

I understand if you don't want to say specifically what happened on SDN, that won't fly when applying. Say exactly what happened, what you did in response, and how you've grown from the experience. Don't leave the specifics up to the reader's imagination, they may imagine something far worse than what actually happened.

Hazing could mean a lot of different things, with repercussions ranging from career-ending to a minor speedbump. Your stats are great. I hope things work out for you.

This. Don't tell us here but be specific in your application. A LOR from the Dean might be a good idea, too.

 

[Tenk]

The reason why it was brought to the schools attention is because a person from a rival fraternity found out and reported it.

Snitches get stitches.

 

[Robin-jay]

My stats are good- 3.9/524.

Do you want Harvard or Stanford?

 

[Matt17765]

Yeah i’ll definitey be more specific in my applications. The event could possibly be seen as bad in retrospect, but at the time it didn’t seem like we were doing anything wrong. I just hoped I don’t get screened out because of the stigma attached to hazing. My dream school is Vanderbilt but that’s probably not happening anymore

 

[Matt17765]

Also this may be a stupid question, but are DOs more forgiving of this type of stuff? If not, I might apply to SGU, I heard they give scholarships to high stat applicants

 

[ndafife]

Your stats buy you a lot of forgiveness. Assuming it isn't something bad, I think you should be fine if you can explain it in an adult grown up matter.... But it really comes down to what it is

 

[907914]

I’d rather not go into details on here, but what I can say is no one was made uncomfortable, no alcohol or drugs were involved, no one was forced to do anything, and it was something everyone involved enjoyed that harmed no one. The reason why it was brought to the schools attention is because a person from a rival fraternity found out and reported it, knowing the school has a zero tolerance policy. I go to a large state school that hates greek life, so essentially anything a brother does with a pledge is seen as “hazing” due to power dynamics. The dean who was in charge of the investigation even said that the incident seemed harmless but his hands were tied due to school policy. Me and the other members involved were told to write essays on why what we did was wrong, attend an educational class on hazing, and that this would be on our records. I definitely learned from all of this, I was involved in something very immature and I regret that. I just hope adcoms can see that this was nothing like the hazing you see in the news or in movies, and I’m not some sort of sociopath.

Silly question: Regardless of fraternity culture, if the school has a zero tolerance policy then why do it?

 

[MacBee]

If not, I might apply to SGU

 

[Toutie]

Also this may be a stupid question, but are DOs more forgiving of this type of stuff? If not, I might apply to SGU, I heard they give scholarships to high stat applicants

:troll:

 

[Matt17765]

:troll:

I’m not a troll. I’m just someone who’s worked their entire lives to get into med school and I am not going to let this one incident ruin that. I’m gonna do whatever it takes

 

[907914]

I’m not a troll. I’m just someone who’s worked their entire lives to get into med school and I am not going to let this one incident ruin that. I’m gonna do whatever it takes

Weren’t working hard enough if you intentionally did something you knew your school had a zero tolerance for.

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

IMHO, if the hazing incident didn’t involve pressuring people to drink and/or putting the “hazees” under bodily/mental harm, then this IA won’t be that significant for you, especially in light of your great stats. I think there will be schools that will take a chance on you, as long as you don’t have a top-heavy list or with too many low-tiers.

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

Weren’t working hard enough if you intentionally did something you knew your school had a zero tolerance for.

To be fair, as another poster already mentioned, hazing can be pretty broad, and a lot of pretty innocent things that clubs or sports teams do in college can be construed as hazing. Even make the freshman clean up after an event could be taken as hazing if an administrator is feeling extra punitive that day.

 

[Goro]

Also this may be a stupid question, but are DOs more forgiving of this type of stuff? If not, I might apply to SGU, I heard they give scholarships to high stat applicants

No. We're not. We also place a value on professionalism

 

[907914]

To be fair, as another poster already mentioned, hazing can be pretty broad, and a lot of pretty innocent things that clubs or sports teams do in college can be construed as hazing. Even make the freshman clean up after an event could be taken as hazing if an administrator is feeling extra punitive that day.

True, however it was still fully under OPs control. If his university is known to be stringent (and everyone in a fraternity should be aware of their university policies) then it is OPs knowing mistake.

My advice to anyone who wants to avoid IAs, have all of your non-academic ECs off campus/not school affiliated.

 

[907914]

The best way to avoid IAs is to not attend university at all. Or we can just listen to the rules. Every Greek life group gets educated on the hazing rules and if they don't listen to it, then they get the hammer. There was a university last year who had all Greek life shut down because of one fraternity not listening to the rules.

I know all to well, that was one of my state schools only about 40 miles from my school. Greek life really is counterproductive to a pre-professional track.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Yeah i’ll definitey be more specific in my applications. The event could possibly be seen as bad in retrospect, but at the time it didn’t seem like we were doing anything wrong. I just hoped I don’t get screened out because of the stigma attached to hazing. My dream school is Vanderbilt but that’s probably not happening anymore

I assume you are planning to apply in the 2019-2020 cycle. My advice to all applicants, even with near-perfect stats from Top UG's, is NOT to fall in love with any one school. There are so many great schools - so there really should rarely be a "dream school" - unless you have a S.O. already there in PhD program or something. Even without an IA, there is so much randomness in where people get interviews, even with top stats, top EC's etc. Unless one has a real rags-to-riches story, and are in a sought-after demographic, even top stats kids may at best only get 30% of interviews from the top schools like Vandy, so having a dream school from the outset can only set u up for disappointment.

Another thought is it might make sense to take another year to get some distance from it and to show clean record of professionalism (in school and/or work record) when you apply. I am a big fan of a gap year or two for many students. If you are smart about it, especially if you can live at home or cheaply, you can actually save some money for living expenses in medical school and gain valuable life experience. It is also great live a life where you do not always feel like you should be studying for the next test, etc. before you go into a career in medicine, where you may not have much "you" time for many years.

Most years, we do interview people with IA's who do all the right things in response. Typical IA is getting caught with alcohol. If you apply next year, I predict you will get fewer interviews than without the IA; however, a wisely constructed list should yield an acceptance at a perfectly good school if you have all the other pieces in place.

 

[Goro]

Yeah i’ll definitey be more specific in my applications. The event could possibly be seen as bad in retrospect, but at the time it didn’t seem like we were doing anything wrong. I just hoped I don’t get screened out because of the stigma attached to hazing. My dream school is Vanderbilt but that’s probably not happening anymore

Listen to the wise Dr. gorowannabe's post above, and consider:
“Dream schools are like dream girls: better in the abstract than reality”. –The exceptionally wise gyngyn

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My advice to all applicants, even with near-perfect stats from Top UG's, is NOT to fall in love with any one school. There are so many great schools - so there really should rarely be a "dream school" - unless you have a S.O. already there in PhD program or something

This is great advice. I had a dream school so much so that I actually cancelled and interview to a different school because I thought there was no chance I’d go there. Well I decided to ask for my interview back when I didn’t hear from my dream school when I thought I would, and fortunately they gave it back. That school ended up impressing me so much that it’s my number one choice now. And I have a family here. Fortunately they are supportive and look at moving as an adventure.