Does your MCAT score need to match avg MCAT score of accepted students to be...

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This is why statistics will be part of the new MCAT.

People get in with MCAT scores and GPA's above and below the school medians.
 
Depends how you define competitive.
If you mean August interview, November acceptance... probably not.
If you mean could you feasibly be accepted (even if off the waitlist)... probably.
 
MCAT is just one (very important) part of your application. 30 is probably typically too low for a school with an average of 34 but you can ve lower than the average and still be competitive.

You could certainly exceed the average too :laugh:
 
If your MCAT score is 4 points below the school's average, you should have some other awesome stuff in your application to be competitive. Maybe you've done awesome research and are a published author. Maybe you're a Marshall, Fulbright, or Rhodes scholar. Maybe your personal statement is a heartbreaking work of staggering genius. Maybe you have a letter of recommendation written by a well regarded professor at a great med school in which he says you practically walk on water. Maybe you're an Olympic athlete, Tony winning actor, or UFC champion.

If you have a few of these things going for you, sure, you can still be competitive. If you just have a boring, run of the mill application, though, no, you probably aren't.
 
phltz said:
If your MCAT score is 4 points below the school's average, you should have some other awesome stuff in your application to be competitive. Maybe you've done awesome research and are a published author. Maybe you're a Marshall, Fulbright, or Rhodes scholar. Maybe your personal statement is a heartbreaking work of staggering genius. Maybe you have a letter of recommendation written by a well regarded professor at a great med school in which he says you practically walk on water. Maybe you're an Olympic athlete, Tony winning actor, or UFC champion.

If you have a few of these things going for you, sure, you can still be competitive. If you just have a boring, run of the mill application, though, no, you probably aren't.
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Nice clarification. I wish I was an Olympic athlete. 🙂
Thanks.
 
monkeyMD said:
Nice clarification. I wish I was an Olympic athlete. 🙂
Thanks.
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I was friend with a guy in my chemistry and physics classes who was in the Olympics twice (and got a silver medal). I think he was going for physical therapy though at the time. A little Googling suggests he went for finance though.
 
Take the school's avg gpa multiply by 10 and add to the school's avg MCAT.

Now take your gpa multiply by 10 and add your MCAT (add your avg MCAT if you've taken it more than once). This is your LizzyM score. Is your LizzyM score equal or higher than the school's avg? If so, great! It is is lower, your chances of an interview are lower. The further apart the two figures the lower your chances of an interview. The exception to the rule would be something exceptional with regard to life experience defined most broadly.
 
LizzyM said:
Take the school's avg gpa multiply by 10 and add to the school's avg MCAT.

Now take your gpa multiply by 10 and add your MCAT (add your avg MCAT if you've taken it more than once). This is your LizzyM score. Is your LizzyM score equal or higher than the school's avg? If so, great! It is is lower, your chances of an interview are lower. The further apart the two figures the lower your chances of an interview. The exception to the rule would be something exceptional with regard to life experience defined most broadly.
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This is helpful!

But what is considered "close" and what is considered "far?"
 
phltz said:
If your MCAT score is 4 points below the school's average, you should have some other awesome stuff in your application to be competitive. Maybe you've done awesome research and are a published author. Maybe you're a Marshall, Fulbright, or Rhodes scholar. Maybe your personal statement is a heartbreaking work of staggering genius. Maybe you have a letter of recommendation written by a well regarded professor at a great med school in which he says you practically walk on water. Maybe you're an Olympic athlete, Tony winning actor, or UFC champion.

If you have a few of these things going for you, sure, you can still be competitive. If you just have a boring, run of the mill application, though, no, you probably aren't.
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UFC champion right here!
 
flatearth22 said:
This is why statistics will be part of the new MCAT.

People get in with MCAT scores and GPA's above and below the school medians.
Click to expand...

Don't schools use the mean for the scores they report? It would make more sense to me anyways because in reality the median doesn't tell you anything(ex. 23,26,35,37,37 median reported 35 but people still get in with a 23). I am not saying i'm right i really don't know what they use to report scores.
 
Blarry said:
Don't schools use the mean for the scores they report? It would make more sense to me anyways because in reality the median doesn't tell you anything(ex. 23,26,35,37,37 median reported 35 but people still get in with a 23). I am not saying i'm right i really don't know what they use to report scores.
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The MSAR reports the 10th, 50th (being the median), and 90th percentiles. So you do get an idea of the spread.
 
docbrill said:
LizzyM, your formula gives me hope 🙂 However, does it really mean that I am just as competitive (4.0 gpa and 27 MCAT) as someone with 3.7 gpa and 30 MCAT?? For some reason I always thought that gpa is less important than MCAT because of the variations in difficulty of the undergraduate institution? But your formula suggests that this is not the case. Do adcoms actually use similar formulas to rate applicants? Thanks for your help!
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It obviously is highly subjective on who is reviewing you app.

Case in point: theoretically, the ADCOM could just have a pet peeve against people with your first name and toss your app right in the trash (there are plenty of other applicants to choose from).

Point is, just do your best and let the chips fall where they may.
 
docbrill said:
LizzyM, your formula gives me hope 🙂 However, does it really mean that I am just as competitive (4.0 gpa and 27 MCAT) as someone with 3.7 gpa and 30 MCAT?? For some reason I always thought that gpa is less important than MCAT because of the variations in difficulty of the undergraduate institution? But your formula suggests that this is not the case. Do adcoms actually use similar formulas to rate applicants? Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...

The LizzyM formula begins to fall apart at the extremes. Also remember that not all 4.0's are created equal but all 27's (assuming the same breakdown) are.
 
LizzyM said:
5 points? I think that more than 5 is a real long shot... +/-1 is close.
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IonClaws said:
What about +/- 3 points? 2 points?
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Really? Interpolation, FTW!

(Hint: +/-2 points would put you close to +/-1 = close but not as close as +/-1. +/-3 puts you right between +/-5 and +/-1 = right between close and a real long shot.)
 
flatearth22 said:
This is why statistics will be part of the new MCAT.

People get in with MCAT scores and GPA's above and below the school medians.
Click to expand...

surriously...

Little known fact - almost half of matriculants are accepted with a score below the school average!!🙄

Sorry, but you know, come on...
 
flatearth22 said:
This is why statistics will be part of the new MCAT.

People get in with MCAT scores and GPA's above and below the school medians.
Click to expand...

0919mmk said:
surriously...

Little known fact - almost half of matriculants are accepted with a score below the school average!!🙄

Sorry, but you know, come on...
Click to expand...

lol actually, no, you are describing the median not average. For example, AVG 35: 34, 35, 35, 35, 35, 35, 36.
Scoffing at others when making the same statistical mistake, FTW!

(Sorry, but I couldn't help myself 😉 )
 
Frazier said:
lol actually, no, you are describing the median not average.
Scoffing at others when making the same statistical mistake, FTW!

(Sorry, but I couldn't help myself 😉 )
Click to expand...

Actually, median is a type of average, so... sorry I couldn't help myself either 😉
 
docbrill said:
LizzyM, your formula gives me hope 🙂 However, does it really mean that I am just as competitive (4.0 gpa and 27 MCAT) as someone with 3.7 gpa and 30 MCAT?? For some reason I always thought that gpa is less important than MCAT because of the variations in difficulty of the undergraduate institution? But your formula suggests that this is not the case. Do adcoms actually use similar formulas to rate applicants? Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...


The next questions are going to be "what undergrad school?" "what major" ? "excessive use of Ws to protect gpa?" "challenging coursework or not so much?"
Then "MCAT breakdown?" "scheduled for retake?" "any extenuating circumstances around the taking of the exam?"

There are those who will argue that MCAT levels the playing field and is a predictor of success in med school and others who will argue that it is just one day compared to the years of hard work to maintain a 4.0 and that above a 25 or 26, the probabilty curve that the matriculant will finish medical school flattens out so a 27 is as good in that regard as a 30.

The rest of the application, particularly life experience, could also come into play.

There could be a case made for that applicant, or not.
 
Frazier said:
lol actually, no, you are describing the median not average. For example, AVG 35: 34, 35, 35, 35, 35, 35, 36.
Scoffing at others when making the same statistical mistake, FTW!

(Sorry, but I couldn't help myself 😉 )
Click to expand...

Semantics indeed.

Also, in your example, half of the scores are...at or below the average 😉

Perhaps you meant something like Mean of 35: 27,36,36,36,39 where fewer than half of the scores are below the mean?
 
0919mmk said:
Semantics indeed.

Also, in your example, half of the scores are...at or below the average 😉

Perhaps you meant something like Mean of 35: 27,36,36,36,39 where fewer than half of the scores are below the mean?
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You misunderstood, I was showing how your proposed "half of scores are below the average" was fallacious. In my example, one out of seven scores is below the average. We are using the standard accepted meaning of average as "mean".

If you want to stick in the subtle "below OR AT" qualifier (which you did in your last post, but not in the original), then we no longer disagree.

This is silly, I'm sure you know statistics - I was jus' playin' wit cha, playaman. 😎
 
Frazier said:
You misunderstood, I was showing how your proposed "half of scores are below the average" was fallacious. In my example, one out of seven scores is below the average. We are using the standard accepted meaning of average as "mean".

If you want to stick in the subtle "below OR AT" qualifier (which you did in your last post, but not in the original), then we no longer disagree.
Click to expand...

Granted. Half of matriculants are at or below the median. But the spirit of my original statement stands - as many people score below the median as do above. Thus just because you are below the median, does not mean you can't get in. Which is what irked me about the OP's post.

Indeed - thank you for the spirited debate 🙂
 
yellowcocopuffs said:
considered competitive? Ie., if your MCAT is 30 but average at a certain school is 34, then are you considered not competitive?
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still a chance but chances are lower than obviously the good applicants who apply with 30+ just think about it
 
0919mmk said:
Granted. Half of matriculants are at or below the median. But the spirit of my original statement stands - as many people score below the median as do above. Thus just because you are below the median, does not mean you can't get in. Which is what irked me about the OP's post.

Indeed - thank you for the spirited debate 🙂
Click to expand...

Actually, it is possible for the majority to be at the median and no one to be below the median. Skewed left with a long tail. In such a case the mean would be higher than the median.
 
docbrill said:
LizzyM, your formula gives me hope 🙂 However, does it really mean that I am just as competitive (4.0 gpa and 27 MCAT) as someone with 3.7 gpa and 30 MCAT?? For some reason I always thought that gpa is less important than MCAT because of the variations in difficulty of the undergraduate institution? But your formula suggests that this is not the case. Do adcoms actually use similar formulas to rate applicants? Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
The chances of acceptance are better for a person with a higher GPA than normal and a MCAT below normal.

I plan to make a thread about this in the near future (probably in WAMC), but I have created some graphs to help people figure out their % chance of acceptance. One of those graphs is a LizzyM score vs. % chance of acceptance. It is colored 2 colors: one color is where the GPA contributes more to the score when compared with the average matriculant, and the other color is where MCAT contributes more. The reason I decided to compare with the average is because the average matriculant has a cGPA of 3.68 and a MCAT of 32, meaning that cGPA usually contributes more to the LizzyM score for successful applicants (If someone has a counterargument, feel free to PM me). So I suppose that my approach answers the question "Which is better: having a higher GPA and lower MCAT than average, or having a higher MCAT and lower GPA than average?" The answer is that the higher GPA/lower MCAT combo is better.

Of course, we have to ignore flatearth22 (as usual) if we wish to have the correct answer. Do so at your own risk

BTW, I predict your % chance of an acceptance to be slightly better than 60%.

The point is that people in your situation (with great GPAs but lower MCAT scores) are better off and don't need to be as wary of using the LizzyM score method as those who have a low GPA but great MCAT.
 
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