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My former life was construction...I'm not making that up
My former life was construction...I'm not making that up
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Okay I'm sure it was .......but are you telling me white women have never benefited from Affirmative Action or equal opportunity programs? Have you ever looked into it?
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now I understand your response to my post...you thought I was disagreeing with you. I was backing up your statement that white women do indeed benefit quite a bit from AA programs. I mentioned construction specifically because I personally know people in that situation.
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Ah, my apologies. Long day....
Who is "we?" Do you honestly believe that you and other "whites" are cut from one big cookie cutter of "white privilege?"
Just so you know according to federal gov't daffynitions, brown skinned folks ( eg. Indians, Middle Easterners, Asians) are considered "white." From the Census Bureau's website: "White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa".
To further confuse your black and white mindset ( excuse the pun), here's a 2011 article from the hallowed NYT that shows the association of different economic strata of "whites" with religion. If any shoe fits, by all means wear it and give up your "white privilege" inheritance to the NAACP. Tomorrow I'm going to pull a Rachel Dolezal and self-identify myself as African American, so your generous donation may benefit yours truly in the near future. Thank you!
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/magazine/is-your-religion-your-financial-destiny.html?_r=0
Is Your Religion Your Financial Destiny?
The economic differences among the country’s various religions are strikingly large, much larger than the differences among states and even larger than those among racial groups.
The most affluent of the major religions — including secularism — is Reform Judaism. Sixty-seven percent of Reform Jewish households made more than $75,000 a year at the time the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life collected the data, compared with only 31 percent of the population as a whole. Hindus were second, at 65 percent, and Conservative Jews were third, at 57 percent.
On the other end are Pentecostals, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Baptists. In each case, 20 percent or fewer of followers made at least $75,000. Remarkably, the share of Baptist households making $40,000 or less is roughly the same as the share of Reform Jews making $100,000 or more. Overall, Protestants, who together are the country’s largest religious group, are poorer than average and poorer than Catholics. That stands in contrast to the long history, made famous by Max Weber, of Protestant nations generally being richer than Catholic nations.
Many factors are behind the discrepancies among religions, but one stands out. The relationship between education and income is so strong that you can almost draw a line through the points on this graph. Social science rarely produces results this clean.
What about the modest outliers — like Unitarians, Buddhists and Orthodox Christians, all of whom are less affluent than they are educated (and are below the imaginary line)? One possible explanation is that some religions are more likely to produce, or to attract, people who voluntarily choose lower-paying jobs, like teaching.
Another potential explanation is discrimination. Scott Keeter of Pew notes that researchers have used more sophisticated versions of this sort of analysis to look for patterns of marketplace discrimination. And a few of the religions that make less than their education would suggest have largely nonwhite followings, including Buddhism and Hinduism. Pew also created a category of traditionally black Protestant congregations, and it was somewhat poorer than could be explained by education levels. These patterns don’t prove discrimination, but they raise questions.
Some of the income differences probably stem from culture. Some faiths place great importance on formal education. But the differences are also self-reinforcing. People who make more money can send their children to better schools, exacerbating the many advantages they have over poorer children. Round and round, the cycle goes. It won’t solve itself.
Correction: May 29, 2011
A chart on May 15 with an essay about how religion might affect financial destiny misstated the percentage of people identified as secular who graduated from college. It is 35 percent, not 45 percent.
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How come certain racial groups have come here poor and end up middle class with little help from AA or federal government give-aways? eg. the Vietnamese, Iranians, Indians, Chinese etc etc? Hispanics have come here steadily since the 1980's with little $ in their pockets, they work hard, buy homes, raise their families in comfort. So why is it mainly African Americans who face "racial inequality in daily life?" It's puzzling to me. Why aren't Vietnamese. Iranians, Indians, Chinese demanding URM status for admission to med schools? In fact, some of those racial groups are considered ORM. So little time here, but so much success - how you explain it? FYI many of them were victims in their home countries, but they come to the USA, capitalize on equal opportunities enshrined in our Constitution and away they go. Why do they see equal opportunities despite their non-white skin colors but African Americans see unequal opportunities?
Eliminating race based criminal behavior is something I agree with 100%. Eliminating thought crimes was a Stalinist goal and that I will never support for obvious reasons.
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Although I generally do not approve of most forms of affirmative action and favor a solution similar to what @sb247 is proposing, I do think that affirmative action is still necessary for African Americans and Native Americans.
Both of these groups have faced centuries of discrimination and denied access to opportunities by the United States government as a matter of official policy. Slavery may have ended 150 years ago but the Jim Crow era only ended a generation ago and housing policies still concentrate the descendants of slaves into impoverished areas with terrible schools and terrible access to opportunities. The culture that these policies have created is not conducive to upward mobility and many in these communities are very skeptical of America as an egalitarian society, for good historical reasons. Although things are better than they once were in terms of government policies, there is a still a long road to go.
The other groups you have mentioned have definitely faced discrimination in the past and modern day. Heck, even Italians, Irish, and Slavs (groups we consider "white" today) faced discrimination in the past. None of these groups, however, faced the amount of discrimination as a matter of government policy at the same level or duration that African Americans and Native Americans have faced.
That said, I think affirmative action is a band aid treating the symptoms of a problem rather than the actual cause (lack of access to opportunities). Fixing access to opportunities, however, is a lot more difficult to do and less likely to garner good PR or votes. The current state of affirmative action also hurts Asians as individuals and gives a helping hand to recent African immigrants and Afrocarribean groups which are only a tiny subset of the population and not the groups affirmative action was intended to help.
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The hallmark of the new age of progressivism: "oh, you don't agree? Well you're just uneducated - check your privilege and go read more HuffPo."
Please. It's the height of arrogance and does no favors if you're trying to actually have a discussion with someone.
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As much as I disagree with Nick's conclusions, I have to agree with this. Good causes aren't helped by bad arguments.
Particularly when it's so easy to find examples.
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Throwing Native Americans into the same "discriminated, disenfranchised" racial group as African Americans is pc window dressing. Native Americans aren't the ones demanding perks for the "sins of our fathers" and even if they did I doubt they'd get much attention from the powers that be. Native Americans are the red headed step child for progressives.
At some point African Americans need to look in the mirror and take responsibility for their situation - they are not helping themselves or their brethren eg. single mother multiple partners households, generational welfare culture are not recipe ingredients for upward mobility.
Other victimized racial and ethnic groups have come to America over the years and they have succeeded by their own hard work and family support. To say they didn't suffer from "institutionalized discrimination" is insulting to them. They not only suffered prejudice here initially as you pointed out - how long did it take before a Catholic was allowed into the WH? - but many suffered government purges slave labor camps and came here to escape dire potentially lethal consequences (eg. Vietnamese, Cambodians, Chinese, Ukrainians, Russians, Irish Catholics, Iranians, German Jews, etc etc etc). Africans like the Tutsu and Hutu escaped certain death in Rwanda.
Other ethnic/racial groups shrugged off the past, looked to the future, and embraced opportunity in America and made something of themselves. African Americans need to follow the lead of other down trodden successful groups instead of living in the past.
Canada must have missed the memo - their Olympic hockey team is loaded with top notch NHL players. Canada wins the gold more often than not. Figure skating is another Olympic competition that's highly competitive. These are just 2 examples that come to mind. The bobsled movie isn't how the Olympics works in real life. Countries want to win so they send their best.
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The US and Canada could easily field six teams between them). That would mean Slovakia, Slovenia, Latvia and Norway could stay home and basically watch the NHL split up by nationality.
As competitive as the Olympics are, each sport limits the number of athletes from a given country who are permitted to compete. It might not be fair to the skater or runner who comes from a country with a very strong bench but it is how we end up with that amazing parade of nations bringing the whole world together.
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Norway and Latvia and Slovenia may not do well in hockey or figure skating but they do have their respective niches where they do very well. Nonetheless every country including the USA fields their best.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that wealthy countries are limiting the number of great players on their nation's team and are mixing in not so great players.
Every nations fields its best in any given sport in the Olympics. First World nations are not purposely losing at some Olympic sports so Third World countries can win. The USA doesn't medal in some sports because its best athletes are not the best in some sports.
There are natural geographic and possibly genetic strengths and adaptations ( perish the thought!) in each country. African nations do well in summer Olympics where sports like soccer and running are scheduled. Canada and Sweden and the USA and Japan and Russia do well in winter Olympics where hockey and figure skating and skiing are featured.
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You seem to not be understanding LizzyM's point. I'll use jamaican sprinters (all hail usain bolt) as the explanation. Jamaica is a sprinting powerhouse and so is the US. depending on the year, either could legitimately have 8-10 people in the men's 100. The olympics does not allow them to do so, so at the jamaican trials only the best few get through. It doesn't matter to the olympics if the 5th fastest jamaican (now sitting at home) is faster than the fastest morrocan (now lining up in the prelim round at the olympics). The olympics decided they would rather have the fastest representatives from each nations show up than have strictly the fastest people in the world. They chose representation over achievement in the strictest sense.
Clearly we all have our own opinions about the right/wrong of that but it's a pretty accurate representation. Admissions isn't drawing the hard line that the olympics do, but they are clearly adjusting the standard based on which demographic you are in so that they can achieve the representation that they find more desirable than the objective achievement.
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I wish I had the time to reply to you with a thorough response but I don't. You seem to be ignorant to the current oppression that black people are faced with today which continues to handicap the race in society.
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1. It's hard to "shrug off the past" when it is still affecting the present. The amount of African Americans getting educated and becoming professionals has been rising steadily for the last few decades. I think that many are taking responsibility of their "situation" and are trying to do the best they can. Try walking a mile in their shoes before you criticize. Read this:
http://gawker.com/the-horrible-bigoted-texts-traded-between-san-francisc-1692183203
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/06/arson-churches-north-carolina-georgia/396881/
When things like this no longer happen then you can tell them to stop living in the past.
2. I've posted this in the past but you can't really compare the success of other ethnic groups in America to African Americans.
"If Jewish people and Asian Americans can rapidly advance economically, African Americans should be able to do the same."
"This comparison ignores the unique history of discrimination against Black people in America. Over the past four centuries, Black history has included nearly 250 years of slavery, 100 years of legalized discrimination, and only 50 years of anything else. Jews and Asians, on the other hand, are populations that immigrated to North America and included doctors, lawyers, professors, and entrepreneurs among their ranks. Moreover, European Jews are able to function as part of the White majority. To expect Blacks to show the same upward mobility as Jews and Asians is to deny the historical and social reality that Black people face."
http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm
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The Ferguson, MO police weren't deliberately targeting Vietnamese. Iranians, Indians, Chinese etc. Catch a clue.
Vietnamese, Iranians, Indians, Chinese, etc were not robbing, vandalizing, putting buildings on fire, shooting other civilians and police. Catch a clue yourself.
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1. What's affecting the present are individual personal choices. African American individuals who succeed are motivated. They didn't let "victim" herd mentality or race hustlers like Tim Wise hold them back. They made decisions that helped themselves move forward and upward like other poor, victimized immigrants before them have done over time.
2. Race based violence in the present is not a 1 way street as your links might suggest. My mother's book club discussed a title called "White Girl Bleed A Lot: the Return of Racial Violence and How the Media Ignore It" written by Colin Flaherty, an award winning investigative reporter. I read it after and it was an eye opener. Flaherty factually reported 500 viciously violent "hate crimes" inflicted on other racial groups by African Americans that never reached the front pages of NYT, Wash Post nor were they profiled in the Atlantic, nor were the crimes tried as "hate crimes." It was an Amazon #1 bestseller in 2013. And before you allege that Flaherty is an evil racist person, don't waste your time - prior to writing this book, due Flaherty's dogged investigative reporting, he was instrumental in getting an African American wrongly accused of crime set free from jail.
3. So you're claiming that Jewish and Asian immigrants had lots of professionals in their ranks ( unsupported theory) when they sought refuge in the USA and their family trees only had to contend with the likes of Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao rather than slave owners ( until 1833) and that's why it was easier for Jews and Asians to start from nothing and succeed? lol - see you around...and don't worry about the guys with butterfly nets on your door step...
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Why don't you tell us your real opinions on this matter? Your true colors are slowly coming about.
What's your point? I responded to Goro's post with pertinent facts to the context he raised. Do you have a problem with facts? FYI I was not giving "opinions." And I'm not going to be be intimidated because facts are inconvenient for you and others on this thread.
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Not intimidated, but tired of you polluting this thread with thinly veiled racist arguments.
There are actual discussions to be had on this subject, and some people are providing good debate. You are conflating evidence, and presenting straw-man arguments.
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How is that racist?
I have presented factual support for everything I have posted on this thread. You have presented nothing but a string of ad hominems.
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"These blacks just don't work hard, look at all these other races of people who succeed just fine!"
Please, spare me. His comments clearly show he lacks the nuance to discuss this topic. Sounds similar to the drivel that comes out of Fox news.
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Oh okay so you are talking about white people?
1. Quit misquoting me. 2. Nuance? Seriously? What place does nuance have in a intellectual debate? If you can't take the heat, leave the kitchen.
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A) Is it just me or does it look like someone photoshopped a backpack on that woman's sweater?
B) I'm a little confused on what point you guys are trying to make by posting the humongous pictures? That white people aren't perfect?
B) I'm a little confused on what point you guys are trying to make by posting the humongous pictures? That white people aren't perfect?
Ah, silly me. Here's some pics from San Francisco:
Happy?
Excellent observation in your # B. They have no point. When there's no substance to an opposing argument, when it's all about social justice training session talking points, then childish responses are predictable when all those cards have been played to no avail. The final melt down occurs with whining about "nuance"and random nations' drunk sport fan photos picked off the net.
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What's the over/under on one of the posters in this thread being another reincarnation of ALoft?
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I was going to go with Austrian skiers in the winter games. Guys who would podium in FIS events earlier in the season end up sitting at home because of the 3 skiers per country per event limit.
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No, its to prove that rioting/bad behavior isn't exclusive to black people, which is what Hyde is basically suggesting.
Question: Can you provide me the quote where I said that rioting/bad behavior was exclusive to black people?
Answer: No you can't, because I never said that. I would would never say that. You are a bold-faced liar.
What's disturbing to me is the fact that this is the SECOND time that I have caught you lying about what I've said in my posts.
And the other concern I have is that an unethical, truth-challenged individual like yourself is trying to get accepted to medical school.
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They hear what they want to hear... No changing that.
Wasn't there a study done that showed how conservatives were more likely to read & be familiar with the opposing viewpoints than liberals?
They couldn't have been more right.
Wasn't there a study done that showed how conservatives were more likely to read & be familiar with the opposing viewpoints than liberals?
They couldn't have been more right.
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You should be more concerned that I am going to be a med student in a month.See below:
@Mr Interesting gave you a nice little example of how you are misinformed by showing you that people of any race can commit crimes such as rioting. You seemed to ignore that conveniently. What @Goro was trying to say was that the rioting and tense climate that occurred in Ferguson was due to systematically unfair treatment of black people within the city by the police department. The police department didn't treat other minorities in this manner (at least not to this extent). The rioting came after, as an effect of this mistreatment.
Please, continue to be "puzzled" though why African Americans are not model minorities, and keep pretending that all issues faced by anyone who qualifies as a minority are the same. Equal opportunities are surely enshrined in our constitution, but not at all in practice.
They hear what they want to hear... No changing that.
Wasn't there a study done that showed how conservatives were more likely to read & be familiar with the opposing viewpoints than liberals?
Well that makes things much clearer. The irony is rich.
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@Mr Interesting gave you a nice little example of how you are misinformed by showing you that people of any race can commit crimes such as rioting. You seemed to ignore that conveniently. What @Goro was trying to say was that the rioting and tense climate that occurred in Ferguson was due to systematically unfair treatment of black people within the city by the police department. The police department didn't treat other minorities in this manner (at least not to this extent). The rioting came after, as an effect of this mistreatment.Please, continue to be "puzzled" though why African Americans are not model minorities, and keep pretending that all issues faced by anyone who qualifies as a minority are the same. Equal opportunities are surely enshrined in our constitution, but not at all in practice.
a. There you go yet again. This is third time you are lying about what I said.
I did not ignore the fact that all races commit crimes. I was the one who referenced the DOJ crime statistics that are listed by race early on this thread. And I encouraged you to read them. You seemed unaware that those crime stats even existed. Ultimately you were too lazy to go to the DOJ website for the statistics. Your choice.
b. Goro provided no support for his 1 line statement. Then he told me to get a clue like he's some omniscient god sitting on high who knows everything about everything and everyone's supposed to take his word as being Truth. Goro may be revered by you but to me he's a net persona who has no more credibility than the Man in the Moon. Likewise you provide no support for your theory that Ferguson vandals and looters rioted "as an effect of mistreatment." Where's your proof? You do realize that the Ferguson looters harmed African American residents in the main, their businesses, their access to businesses and services. So if your theory holds true - that Ferguson looters were lashing out as a result of mistreatment by other races, why did they burn down and rob fellow African Americans? Explain that to me. Hint: you can't because your theory is illogical; it makes no sense.
c. You have 1 more month to get your meds tweeked so there's still time. Without that being done your inability to be truthful and ethical could pose risks to others especially once you are involved in direct patient care and being part of a team. I sincerely hope you are not at my med school.
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Me too.
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Actually, what I was trying to say was that some people seem to think that now that we have a black President and the past 2/4 Secretaries of State were also black, that somehow we're a post-racist society, and that affluent black people don't have anything to worry about, so they shouldn't get any URM advantages.
My answer was, and is basically, "tell that to the people of Ferguson, MO, whom the city treated like they were all on a plantation."
Then some some strange reason, this prompted a riposte that those people in Ferguson went rioting and were criminals, and that black haven't behaved like other minority groups like Asians and Jews. A classic example of an insipid truth.
Which is entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It's disturbing that some poster's racism (NOT you, Banco!!) is bubbling up to the surface. I'm waiting for the ban hammer to smack some foreheads soon.
I suggest that people stop trying to get in the last word, like my 9 year old daughter. No one is convincing anyone on the other side.
What @Goro was trying to say was that the rioting and tense climate that occurred in Ferguson was due to systematically unfair treatment of black people within the city by the police department. The police department didn't treat other minorities in this manner (at least not to this extent). The rioting came after, as an effect of this mistreatment.
Please, continue to be "puzzled" though why African Americans are not model minorities, and keep pretending that all issues faced by anyone who qualifies as a minority are the same. Equal opportunities are surely enshrined in our constitution, but not at all in practice.
My answer was, and is basically, "tell that to the people of Ferguson, MO, whom the city treated like they were all on a plantation."
Then some some strange reason, this prompted a riposte that those people in Ferguson went rioting and were criminals, and that black haven't behaved like other minority groups like Asians and Jews. A classic example of an insipid truth.
Which is entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It's disturbing that some poster's racism (NOT you, Banco!!) is bubbling up to the surface. I'm waiting for the ban hammer to smack some foreheads soon.
I suggest that people stop trying to get in the last word, like my 9 year old daughter. No one is convincing anyone on the other side.
What @Goro was trying to say was that the rioting and tense climate that occurred in Ferguson was due to systematically unfair treatment of black people within the city by the police department. The police department didn't treat other minorities in this manner (at least not to this extent). The rioting came after, as an effect of this mistreatment.
Please, continue to be "puzzled" though why African Americans are not model minorities, and keep pretending that all issues faced by anyone who qualifies as a minority are the same. Equal opportunities are surely enshrined in our constitution, but not at all in practice.
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Your ethics in general are just screwed up... It's interesting to see the commonalities in some of your arguments. E.g.:
"Black people aren't to blame for rioting, throwing punches, metal objects, etc... at innocent bystanders (some of whom were women and children)... no, they are justified because of the way society treats them." Wrong + wrong = right.
"Discriminating based on skin color and race is OK because (insert your faulty reasoning here)." Again, wrong + wrong = right. (Let's solve discrimination with more discrimination!!!)
It's just amazing to me how your population creates these grandiose, self-righteous justifications for all of these unethical behaviors. It's simply unbelievable... and very pathetic, but predictable.
Last, we need to start focusing some of this anger at the media instead of each other. The media plays a major role in this biased, one-sided BS that perpetuates racism in America. Where are all the stories of Black on White violence? What about Black on Black? White on White? I'd bet 99% of the people who were rioting could not give an intellectual rationale for why they were doing what they were doing. Their actions/hatred were probably fueled by skewed news reports or biased word-of-mouth recollections of the events that did not tell the full story. Let's not even get into the fact that rioting does nothing to help a cause.
Furthermore, stop acting like every Black person should be afraid of White people in American society. I mean seriously, give me a break. You make one false step in today's society as a police officer (or honestly, in any job) toward a Black person and you're instantly fired or asked to resign. Someone whispers that you're racist and you're career is ruined forever as people gossip and pose baseless claims about you on the plethora of social websites / apps / media. Teachers and Professors are getting fired from including "controversial" readings in their syllabi that offends people. Society has created an environment where people have to tip-toe around Blacks in order to not offend them, just to make sure they don't lose their job and end up not being able to support their family.
People say Blacks should be afraid of doing research in the hospital. Have you actually been a part of conducting clinical research recently? Seriously, have you been directly involved in the process? Doubtful. Informed consent and patient autonomy are held to the highest standards in research ethics. The IRB creates so much red tape that maliciously enrolling a patient in a dangerous research study is pretty close to impossible, not to mention not worth it. It's gotten to the point where it honestly hinders the research process and most docs I've worked with take one look at a patient and just say "Nope, don't even try with them, it's not worth the trouble." I mean it's just silly listening to all of you people who majored in "URM bit*****" in undergrad argue about this stuff but have absolutely no idea how it works in the real world. You site "Tuskegee" and "Henrietta Lacks" for your rationale without acknowledging that society has improved exponentially since these tragedies.
Keep living in the past if you want. The most successful URMs I've met (and coincidentally the ones that I respect the most) don't walk around with a chip on their shoulder complaining and campaigning for these ridiculous unethical systems and trying to justify the unjustifiable. I mean the very fact that we're arguing about whether discriminating based on the color of someone's skin is right or wrong IN 2015 is simply dumbfounding.
You want equality? Start treating people as equals. It's as simple as that.
"Black people aren't to blame for rioting, throwing punches, metal objects, etc... at innocent bystanders (some of whom were women and children)... no, they are justified because of the way society treats them." Wrong + wrong = right.
"Discriminating based on skin color and race is OK because (insert your faulty reasoning here)." Again, wrong + wrong = right. (Let's solve discrimination with more discrimination!!!)
It's just amazing to me how your population creates these grandiose, self-righteous justifications for all of these unethical behaviors. It's simply unbelievable... and very pathetic, but predictable.
Last, we need to start focusing some of this anger at the media instead of each other. The media plays a major role in this biased, one-sided BS that perpetuates racism in America. Where are all the stories of Black on White violence? What about Black on Black? White on White? I'd bet 99% of the people who were rioting could not give an intellectual rationale for why they were doing what they were doing. Their actions/hatred were probably fueled by skewed news reports or biased word-of-mouth recollections of the events that did not tell the full story. Let's not even get into the fact that rioting does nothing to help a cause.
Furthermore, stop acting like every Black person should be afraid of White people in American society. I mean seriously, give me a break. You make one false step in today's society as a police officer (or honestly, in any job) toward a Black person and you're instantly fired or asked to resign. Someone whispers that you're racist and you're career is ruined forever as people gossip and pose baseless claims about you on the plethora of social websites / apps / media. Teachers and Professors are getting fired from including "controversial" readings in their syllabi that offends people. Society has created an environment where people have to tip-toe around Blacks in order to not offend them, just to make sure they don't lose their job and end up not being able to support their family.
People say Blacks should be afraid of doing research in the hospital. Have you actually been a part of conducting clinical research recently? Seriously, have you been directly involved in the process? Doubtful. Informed consent and patient autonomy are held to the highest standards in research ethics. The IRB creates so much red tape that maliciously enrolling a patient in a dangerous research study is pretty close to impossible, not to mention not worth it. It's gotten to the point where it honestly hinders the research process and most docs I've worked with take one look at a patient and just say "Nope, don't even try with them, it's not worth the trouble." I mean it's just silly listening to all of you people who majored in "URM bit*****" in undergrad argue about this stuff but have absolutely no idea how it works in the real world. You site "Tuskegee" and "Henrietta Lacks" for your rationale without acknowledging that society has improved exponentially since these tragedies.
Keep living in the past if you want. The most successful URMs I've met (and coincidentally the ones that I respect the most) don't walk around with a chip on their shoulder complaining and campaigning for these ridiculous unethical systems and trying to justify the unjustifiable. I mean the very fact that we're arguing about whether discriminating based on the color of someone's skin is right or wrong IN 2015 is simply dumbfounding.
You want equality? Start treating people as equals. It's as simple as that.
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Bravo! You hit every note perfectly. See you around on other threads. This particular thread is done - put a fork in it - in retrospect based on some of the vacuous and/or flaming responses, this thread was doomed from the start.
Many of those in this thread who are against affirmative action forget that standardized tests, including both the SAT and the MCAT, are biased against minorities. This can be clearly seen by the discrepancies in scores between African-Americans, hispanics, and whites.
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Post above me: 0/10 lol...
Also, IDK how I stumbled upon this on fb but I couldn't help but posting this here as it's very on-point... http://conservative50.com/blog/zonation-schools-our-race-baiting-first-lady/
Also, IDK how I stumbled upon this on fb but I couldn't help but posting this here as it's very on-point... http://conservative50.com/blog/zonation-schools-our-race-baiting-first-lady/
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I wish that people would stop saying, "you are too dumb, racist, liberal, conservative..."
Just show ideas. The topic is sensitive and deserves careful and thoughtful consideration.
I am not conservative but I think a greater solution to this problem would be to give opportunities earlier in life. It is sad that people are born into less fortunate situations. No one controls who their parents are or what skin color they are but we can all grow towards the light. Like a lotus we grow from a swamp and blossom in the sun.
I like the idea of mixing the demographics of medical students because we all have different cultural experiences and as Confucius said, walking with 3 people I always learn something new.
Just show ideas. The topic is sensitive and deserves careful and thoughtful consideration.
I am not conservative but I think a greater solution to this problem would be to give opportunities earlier in life. It is sad that people are born into less fortunate situations. No one controls who their parents are or what skin color they are but we can all grow towards the light. Like a lotus we grow from a swamp and blossom in the sun.
I like the idea of mixing the demographics of medical students because we all have different cultural experiences and as Confucius said, walking with 3 people I always learn something new.
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三人行必有我師
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The biggest issue with modern affirmative action is that professional schools are essentially admitting to certain demographics that they are lesser qualified, statistically, to compete against an average. Culturally, that's a major insult to demographics - instead of raising the bar for everyone and expecting the very best, we lessen it for others while keeping it higher for the majority. When white applicants with great scores are being denied even for interviews at certain schools over black or Hispanic applicants with significantly lesser statistics, what you're doing is (1) perpetuating the very stereotypes that keep demographics down and (2) writing a false narrative for pre-professional students that they can be admitted, regardless of race, if they do x, y, and z.
Professional school is not where the bar should be changing. Prop everybody up - expect more out of the entire field. Public high school infrastructure and education is what needs to change.
The playing field in undergraduate and graduate school is generally challenging for everyone. Not every middle-class white applicant comes from easy times, but admission boards make it seem like you do. I think it's awful when colleges assume that if you're a white or Asian applicant from a standard middle-class family that you somehow can't be given your due credit for your performance. Admission boards will literally look at a B in Organic Chemistry between a URM and a ORM and generate different assumptions about their grade based on their demographic. Why should an URM who get 17's across in the DAT or a 26 MCAT receive screening preference or interview offers over an ORM with 20s or a 30 MCAT? Are we really using their race or ethnicity to justify their performance in college? That's about as subjectively corrupt as it gets.
Medical and dental schools need to be more transparent - if there's a selective disadvantage against non-URMs according to numbers, they should acknowledge it on their website, through admission meetings on campuses, and simply move on from this idea of holistic non-sense. It's wrong on so many levels to go through college as a non-URM being fed lies and misconstrued statements from pre-health advisors or professional school representatives that they are selecting the "best and brightest" in their admissions.
Professional school is not where the bar should be changing. Prop everybody up - expect more out of the entire field. Public high school infrastructure and education is what needs to change.
The playing field in undergraduate and graduate school is generally challenging for everyone. Not every middle-class white applicant comes from easy times, but admission boards make it seem like you do. I think it's awful when colleges assume that if you're a white or Asian applicant from a standard middle-class family that you somehow can't be given your due credit for your performance. Admission boards will literally look at a B in Organic Chemistry between a URM and a ORM and generate different assumptions about their grade based on their demographic. Why should an URM who get 17's across in the DAT or a 26 MCAT receive screening preference or interview offers over an ORM with 20s or a 30 MCAT? Are we really using their race or ethnicity to justify their performance in college? That's about as subjectively corrupt as it gets.
Medical and dental schools need to be more transparent - if there's a selective disadvantage against non-URMs according to numbers, they should acknowledge it on their website, through admission meetings on campuses, and simply move on from this idea of holistic non-sense. It's wrong on so many levels to go through college as a non-URM being fed lies and misconstrued statements from pre-health advisors or professional school representatives that they are selecting the "best and brightest" in their admissions.
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