Have people had luck doing away rotations (and then getting interviews/matches at) academic centers specifically in the Northeast? Thinking Boston, NYC etc...
Doing aways at big academic centers?
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I was thinking like a Tufts or an NYU (potentially for IM), but that's kind of what I figured. Thanks!
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For IM, can def find a spot somewhere in NYC. It will likely be a sweatshop but if your goal is just to be in nyc
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Tufts or NYU don’t take DOs so there’s not much of a point in doing always there
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You really just need to look at their current resident rosters to get a sense of whether they take DOs or not. There's no substitute for systematically looking this up.
Hahaha will do! Tend to find myself doing this in my free time browsing way too much anyways. Will do in a more systematic fashion to get a better sense.
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If you're applying Internal Medicine you're wasting your time.
Use your Aways for mid tier academic programs and large multidisciplinary communiversity programs with resources. Doing aways at Boston University or NYU is a waste of time if you're not going to be considered.
Use your Aways for mid tier academic programs and large multidisciplinary communiversity programs with resources. Doing aways at Boston University or NYU is a waste of time if you're not going to be considered.
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Yes, unfortunately DO's are very limited to being considered at the top Boston and NY programs and so doing an away will not help. We have a resident at my current program that did a rotation at Yale and was told they were RTM then did not match there due to powers that be that did not want a DO in the program. I will argue and say that if you do a rotation at these places you can at the very least get a very strong letter of rec which can help you tremendously when applying for IM.
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Yah, never trust RTM conversations unless it's from the PD talking to your face the day before rank list submission and even then smile and say you're going to RTM too and move on and rank based on what you want. Everyone here has their own agenda and people will and can change their minds.
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Won't turn a uncompetative applicant into a competitive one. Can help an already close or good applicant get across the line. Can also hurt. I think in todays age of Zoom interviews actually showing up in person can be a bigger benefit than it was in the past.
Do them for the experience not the courtesy interview, although those can be good practice. As someone who reached for the stars on my aways (prepandemic), and didnt match at any of them, I dont regret them. I had a good time and got to experience something very different than my reg DO rotations. They did help me match to my former residency as I could list the academic aways I did and that provided some assurance about my rotation quality. Increased my value by association Lol.
So I say go for it, but dont think it makes up for a mediocre app.
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Had a similar experince where I was told some very flattering things at an away and ultimately didnt match there. THAL is still true.
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I assume you meant doing away rotations as audition rotations and not just electives outside your school's normal rotational spots
When you do away audition rotations, you are starting out at a huge disadvantage vs home students
You need to secure temporary housing (if applicable unless there are family/friends with whom you can stay)
You don't know the hospital/medical center - where are the lecture halls for grand rounds, where's the room for morning report and noon lectures? Where's dialysis, where's ICU, where's the resident lounge, call room, OR, ER. Where do residents (and attendings) meet up for coffee runs? Where's the coffee? Where are the bathrooms? Where's the cafeteria?
New EMR system - Epic? Powerchart? NextGen? Allscripts? How do you write a note, how do you look up labs and imaging, see consult notes, see prior notes, etc.
You don't know anyone
And if you're a DO student - have you rotated at a big academic hospital before and worked with residents, and rounded with residents? Have you pre-rounded before? Have you presented on rounds? Have you prepared a "talk" for the team before? An audition is not the time to learn these things
Remember, your goal is to impress and "wow" - otherwise you'll just be another student on a team that have plenty of students rotate on a weekly basis. And if you're a visiting student who needs extra help (because of the above), then you'll be memorable for the wrong reasons
It's hard to impress when you are at a disadvantage (not saying it isn't possible, but you are trying to stand out amongst other home students AND prior students whom the residents and attendings have worked with)
And you have limited time to get up to speed and get to know people, and impress - before you're gone.
The unfortunate nature of osteopathic undergraduate medical education means that you will be experienced in rotating at new places (and distances) every few weeks/months, learning new EMRs, constantly meeting new people, etc., so that gap may not be as daunting as first appeared
The experiences and exposures are helpful - gives reassurance to other programs (when you apply) that you have experiences in an academic tertiary centers settings (and not just pure outpatient IM, or inpatient in a small community hospital that DO schools are known for)
While you are auditioning, you are also seeing if the place is right for you as well (before you decide to rank to match)
You can also see if it's the environment that you want to work in (tertiary referral university center vs university affiliated community hospital vs community hospital). Plus see if the residents and faculty are happy (and how supportive are the PD and aPD).
When you do away audition rotations, you are starting out at a huge disadvantage vs home students
You need to secure temporary housing (if applicable unless there are family/friends with whom you can stay)
You don't know the hospital/medical center - where are the lecture halls for grand rounds, where's the room for morning report and noon lectures? Where's dialysis, where's ICU, where's the resident lounge, call room, OR, ER. Where do residents (and attendings) meet up for coffee runs? Where's the coffee? Where are the bathrooms? Where's the cafeteria?
New EMR system - Epic? Powerchart? NextGen? Allscripts? How do you write a note, how do you look up labs and imaging, see consult notes, see prior notes, etc.
You don't know anyone
And if you're a DO student - have you rotated at a big academic hospital before and worked with residents, and rounded with residents? Have you pre-rounded before? Have you presented on rounds? Have you prepared a "talk" for the team before? An audition is not the time to learn these things
These are skills that you should learn and practice towards the beginning of your MS3/OMS3 rotations and improve throughout your 3rd year. Different specialties will have different expectations but the expectation that as a student you pre-round, write your note, present on rounds, and on occasion present a medical topic to the team should improve your skills through practice/repetition. If you already got this down, great! If not, the improve this aspect before you do any audition rotations. You want to present yourself in the best light, and not be seen as clinically behind your fellow classmates/students.
Remember, your goal is to impress and "wow" - otherwise you'll just be another student on a team that have plenty of students rotate on a weekly basis. And if you're a visiting student who needs extra help (because of the above), then you'll be memorable for the wrong reasons
It's hard to impress when you are at a disadvantage (not saying it isn't possible, but you are trying to stand out amongst other home students AND prior students whom the residents and attendings have worked with)
And you have limited time to get up to speed and get to know people, and impress - before you're gone.
The unfortunate nature of osteopathic undergraduate medical education means that you will be experienced in rotating at new places (and distances) every few weeks/months, learning new EMRs, constantly meeting new people, etc., so that gap may not be as daunting as first appeared
The experiences and exposures are helpful - gives reassurance to other programs (when you apply) that you have experiences in an academic tertiary centers settings (and not just pure outpatient IM, or inpatient in a small community hospital that DO schools are known for)
While you are auditioning, you are also seeing if the place is right for you as well (before you decide to rank to match)
You can also see if it's the environment that you want to work in (tertiary referral university center vs university affiliated community hospital vs community hospital). Plus see if the residents and faculty are happy (and how supportive are the PD and aPD).
FutureIMdoc123
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If going for academic IM as a DO, they are very helpful. Was 4/4 in IV offers and told that was a big reason why I got the invite
Were your invites at the respective places you did your auditions?
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agree. the issue at a good amount of DO schools is the rotations are very weak affiliations, despite the clinical preceptors getting titled as "adjunct professor", these are not the same as teaching faculty at larger institutions with actual teaching hospitals which leads to a rift in the strength of letters of recommendation and also word of mouth. When you do auditions as a DO this is your introduction to the faculty and your time to show your performance. The pressure is higher as they won't have a way to compare you to the MD students who maybe did their first IM rotation with those faculty the year prior.
