Doing residency while working?

[nirdr]

Hi all, hope anybody can shed a little light on this.
I am an attending physician at a university hospital, Neurointerventionalist to be exact, been doing it for 8 years and now I have the inkling of doing Neurology just to stop being a consulting physician once and for all. I have kids and it would impossible to go back to 50K a year for 4 years to complete the residency, or not impossible but I would not subject my family to that stress.
Has anybody heard or know if it is possible to do the residency at the same hospital I work while I keep my position, I am actually a Prof. of Radiology, Neurology and Neurosurgery.
I have heard of one foreign trained MD that has done this but in the same residency, i.e. gen surgery prof., doing gen surgery residency. My specialty is radiology and then neurorad and neurointervention.
My question is: is it possible, maybe what I heard about that MD is a lie, I would like to know if anybody has heard anything like this. Would it be legal? Meaning for an ACGME program to offer that to me.

Thanks..

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[IMPD]

Somewhere between absolutely not and almost assuredly not.

Nothing to do with legality, but with money (you've used your Medicare training $$$) and practically. How would you possibly complete a residency while working another job? I suppose if the PD of the program is your spouse......

 

[MadHopsMD]

... wrong post

 

[nirdr]

Thanks for your reply, I understand is hard to fathom but from my point of view I already round with Neurology residents, go to their lectures, I would just have to move my schedule around to attend clinic, I have been doing neuro for 8 years so is not like I will be learning from 0. I am talking about working in the same hospital, maybe sign a waiver for payment, I don't care about the Medicare money. And what would the Neurology department get from me? A board certified vascular neurologist, that they don't have right now.

Anyway, I know it was a very long shot, just wanted to test the waters...

 

[gutonc]

I think it's going to be very, very hard but not impossible. A friend of mine recently completed an EM residency while working PT as an oncologist. He had a very understanding and flexible dept chair and he continues to work both jobs (one on each coast actually).

The first thing you need to do is talk to your Dept. Chair. The next thing you need to do is talk to the Neuro PD. The 3rd thing you need to do it talk to your spouse (which I presume you've already done).

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

This is such a specialized/unique question that I really doubt you are going to get a realistic answer here.

I would hazard a guess that the only way this would be feasible would be with the cooperation of both your current department chair and your potential new one. And it would take a lot of flexibility on both their parts so they would really have to be convinced of the utility (for them) of you pursuing this extra training.

Also I almost laughed out loud when you posited that because you currently round and go to conference with the residents you could handle doing both jobs. You remember that that's not all residents do, right? You presumably would have to do a certain number of inpatient months taking primary call (ie intern level pages from the nurses) to satisfy the neurology RRC requirements for completing a residency.

It's not like they can just hand out a certificate of completion like it is CME - you'd have to meet all the requirements (which include a size able service component) of the residency.

 

[Top Gun]

From a practical standpoint, I don't think there's any way you can keep your current job and do neurology residency at the same time. How are you going to balance taking care of neuro patients along with seeing neurointerventional consults and doing procedures, not to mention attending conferences and lectures, and doing clinic. Residency involves a ton of scutwork. I assume you already have a busy schedule, so how are you going to make time for all the work required of you as a resident? You also mentioned you have kids. Are you going to be able to make time for them?

 

[Smurfette]

Thoughts:
1. It's doable if you are a full time resident and simply do neurointerventional stuff as a moonlighting position, and can probably work this out with your institution so long as you do not violate the 80 hour rule (or the 16 hour rule as an "intern"). This would also help to supplement your income as a resident. However, you cannot expect to be "on" for both jobs simultaneously---as a resident you need to be on the rotation to which you are assigned in order to complete necessary RRC requirements.
2. There will be awkwardness involved if you, as a neurointerventional attending known to all the neuro residents as such, suddenly become "one of their own", especially being an intern all over again and in a role very different from how you currently interact with them (i.e. being bossed around in most areas but an expert regarding imaging and interventional options). Are you prepared for this? The PD may be concerned about whether this will be difficult for you or for the residents to deal with. Talk to the neuro PD and feel out the situation.

 

[michaelrack]

I don't really know the answer to your question, but for the last several months of my sleep fellowship, I was also an assistant professor of psychiatry and got paid a faculty salary (In addition to my sleep fellowship duties, I did psychiatry consults, helped out on the med/psych ward, and did some psych attending call). This was before sleep was an ABMS specialty/ACGME fellowship. This is of no use to the OP. I just felt like posting.

 

[nirdr]

Thanks to all for your input, I do know that residents do a ton of work, but where I am, Neurology residency is pretty light with low volume of patients (compared to Neurosurgery with whom I work). I think the only possible way would be moonlighting, taking extra call or something like that. Pretty big decision, maybe I will sit on it for a few more years until my kids are grown( another big factor in the decision). Who knows, anyway thanks again.

 

[colbgw02]

Did you do a medicine prelim year? Would you have to repeat internship?

 

[nirdr]

I did a medicine prelim year but I don't know if I would have to do it again, I am thinking I will, that is why I say 4 years, if I don't then is more doable to do 3 years I guess.

 

[colbgw02]

Why would you have to? Have neurology's RRC requirements changed since you did your internship? Would your program require it for kicks and giggles?

I feel like this is a big issue. Going back into residency training is a big adjustment regardless, but I would imagine the transition from practicing neurointerventionalist to neurology resident is leaps and bounds better than being a medicine intern again. Just imagine having to rotate through the ED or MICU again.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The answer to whether it's legal or not is "yes, sort of".

You can absolutely be both a neuro resident and an attending, but not at the same time. For each day, you would need to choose to be one, or the other -- assuming that they bill medicare for your residency slot. So you can't round with neuro in the AM, and then go get called to do some neurointervention thing at lunch. You also can't "waive" your salary or anything like that. If they don't bill medicare for your slot (which involves much more money than your salary) then you can do anything you want (which is why michaelrack's situation above was possible)

So, options:
1. You could be a neuro resident full time, and moonlight as an attending. Nights and weekends you could moonlight. You can't "moonlight" in the middle of the day.
2. You could work half time as a resident and half time as faculty. This involves a really understanding program, or someone else who wants to do the same thing with the opposite schedule. It also requires twice as much time to complete.