Done too much ecstasy, having a hard time studying, need advice.

[Dr. Lector]

Has any dropped too much E, and is having a hard time retaining anything? How do you deal with loss of short term memory? I need help, might not make it past first year.

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[Castro Viejo]

How about stop using MDMA ("Ecstasy," "E")?

 

[Dr. Lector]

Originally posted by ******
How about stop using MDMA ("Ecstasy," "E")?

I've already stoped. I haven't touched the stuff sence new years 2001-2002, when oakenfield spun at house of blues in vegas. But the effects of going to too many raves as an undergrad are still messing with me.

 

[Mr.Blonde]

since the subject of illicit drug use has come up... which schools have drug testing as a part of the acceptance process? i know of MSSM as the only one, anyone tested by their school?

 

[Castro Viejo]

Check with your local neurologist.

 

[PublicHealth]

Bottom line...don't be a monkey.

The designer drug "Ecstasy," or MDMA, causes long-lasting damage to brain areas that are critical for thought and memory, according to new research findings in the June 15 issue of The Journal of Neuroscience. In an experiment with red squirrel monkeys, researchers at The Johns Hopkins University demonstrated that 4 days of exposure to the drug caused damage that persisted 6 to 7 years later. These findings help to validate previous research by the Hopkins team in humans, showing that people who had taken ecstasy scored lower on memory tests.

"The serotonin system, which is compromised by ecstasy, is fundamental to the brain's integration of information and emotion," says Dr. Alan I. Leshner, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), National Institutes of Health, which funded the research. "At the very least, people who take ecstasy, even just a few times, are risking long-term, perhaps permanent, problems with learning and memory."

The researchers found that the nerve cells (neurons) damaged by ecstasy are those that use the chemical serotonin to communicate with other neurons. The Hopkins team had also previously conducted brain imaging research in human ecstasy users, in collaboration with the National Institute of Mental Health, which showed extensive damage to serotonin neurons.

MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) has a stimulant effect, causing similar euphoria and increased alertness as cocaine and amphetamine. It also causes mescaline-like psychedelic effects. First used in the 1980s, MDMA is often taken at large, all-night "rave" parties.

In this new study, the Hopkins researchers administered either MDMA or salt water to the monkeys twice a day for 4 days. After 2 weeks, the scientists examined the brains of half of the monkeys. Then, after 6 to 7 years, the brains of the remaining monkeys were examined, along with age-matched controls.

In the brains of the monkeys examined soon after the 2-week period, Dr. George Ricaurte and his colleagues found that MDMA caused more damage to serotonin neurons in some parts of the brain than in others. Areas particularly affected were the neocortex (the outer part of the brain where conscious thought occurs) and the hippocampus (which plays a key role in forming long-term memories).

This damage was also apparent, although to a lesser extent, in the brains of monkeys who had received MDMA during the same 2-week period but who had received no MDMA for 6 to 7 years. In contrast, no damage was noticeable in the brains of those who had received salt water.
"Some recovery of serotonin neurons was apparent in the brains of the monkeys given MDMA 6 to 7 years previously," says Dr. Ricaurte, "but this recovery occurred only in certain regions, and was not always complete. Other brain regions showed no evidence of recovery whatsoever."

A NIDA-supported study has provided the first direct evidence that chronic use of MDMA, popularly known as "ecstasy," causes brain damage in people. Using advanced brain imaging techniques, the study found that MDMA harms neurons that release serotonin, a brain chemical thought to play an important role in regulating memory and other functions. In a related study, researchers found that heavy MDMA users have memory problems that persist for at least 2 weeks after they have stopped using the drug. Both studies suggest that the extent of damage is directly correlated with the amount of MDMA use.

"The message from these studies is that MDMA does change the brain and it looks like there are functional consequences to these changes," says Dr. Joseph Frascella of NIDA's Division of Treatment Research and Development. That message is particularly significant for young people who participate in large, all-night dance parties known as "raves," which are popular in many cities around the Nation. NIDA's epidemiologic studies indicate that MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) use has escalated in recent years among college students and young adults who attend these social gatherings.

 

[Dr. Lector]

Thanks Public Health for the 411. I knew something that felt that good had to be bad.

I realy jacked up my brain. My memory is so gone that I can't tell the difference between my hypophysis and my hippocampus.

Does anybody have any advice? I need some nerve cell regeneration(wishful thinking, cuz only PNS & glial do). Any memory aids out there? How about those vitamins that say they aid memory or Saint John's Wart or eating more tryptophan or 5'htp? Come on would be doctors help a brother out.

 

[Skaterbabe74]

Well since that study says that "E" destroys some of the serotonin neurons I would think that St Johns Wort might be helpful. After all that is why people with depression often see good results by using it. I forget what the recommended dosage for depression was, which would probably be the same dosage for your situation, but I'm sure a psychiatrist or a friend diagnosed with depression could tell you. I'd also imagine some of the various memory building books/programs/etc out there would be helpful in getting your brain to make new pathways...

--Jessica, UCCS

 

[DuneHog]

Sorry dude, your brain is fried. I think your best bet is to go for a specialty that does not require a brain. Ever consider ortho? Most of these folks actually atrophy much of their brain by the time they finish residency.

 

[Dr. Lector]

Originally posted by DuneHog
Ever consider ortho? Most of these folks actually atrophy much of their brain by the time they finish residency.

Can?t do anything w/surgery cuz now my hands shake too much when I get nervous. I think my substantia nigra is jacked, experiencing mild form of parkinsons. I?m not really depressed, so antidepressants aren?t needed. I need help w/memory, how about those infommercials, on memory aids?

 

[endo]

Had a patient in my 3rd year who was about 35 years old that presented with classic signs/symptoms of Parkinsonism. Had seen a toxicologist and been tested for mercury / lead / other toxins and it turned out he was a chronic ecstasy user. (didn't find out until he died and was found with his supplies)

 

[Skaterbabe74]

Originally posted by Dr. Lector
:. I?m not really depressed, so antidepressants aren?t needed. I need help w/memory, how about those infommercials, on memory aids?

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that you were depressed, but one of the causes for depression is lowered serotonin levels which is why St Johns Wort helps. Not that it's really been totally proven, but I think that it helps raise the serotonin levels in the body which may help you concentrate a bit more...

--Jessica, UCCS

 

[Kovox]

Originally posted by Dr. Lector
Has any dropped too much E, and is having a hard time retaining anything? How do you deal with loss of short term memory? I need help, might not make it past first year.

Go to a neurologist but in the mean time,

Try exercising (an hour or two of exercise), it'll help you focus and concentrate. My friend used E like you (though for 3 years) but in addition, he also smoked weed. He had memory probs, depression, apathy, and loss of concentration like you did. He played bball for 2-3 hours a day and it seemed to help him focus.

...mmm or take fish oil supplements, I heard it improves memory

 

[dumbest premed]

I can relate to you man...I used to get f***ed up all the time at raves and even still do every so often. It killed my attention span for a while and gave me some hallucinations, so lately I'm trying to stay away from E. I got a lot better since I stopped using it...so maybe with some time you will recover a bit as well. Good luck.

 

[jennie 21]

I'd suggest that you go see a psychologist who specializes in learning disabilities. They are used to working with people with various types of learning problems and can teach you strategies to compensate for your memory problems and to help you remember things better.

 

[pwrpuff]

I can relate to what you are going thru. Fortunately I think there is hope. I'm currently in my 3rd year, and although I'm not in the top of my class I've been able to hold my own. I experimented with it for a year and it definately had some adverse effects on my memory.
I think that with the passage of time things will get better, your memory may improve. You are probably young enough that your body may be able to reverse some of the adverse effects of "E". Although you might not ever be as sharp as you once were, I think the grueling regimen of medical school can actually help your brain get "rewired" so to speak. I haven't touched the stuff for a few years now, and I'm sure that I'm still suffering the effects, but I'm not as worried about it as I once was.
Like some of the other people have suggested, take care of yourself now. Get a full night's sleep. Try to eat healthy and get some regular exercise. I don't think any of the alternative medicines have been shown to have any significant benefits, so I don't waste my money on them.
The more I learn about the human body, the more wonder I have for it's intricate complexities, and the more regret I have for poisoning my body with E in the past.

 

[Neuronix]

Originally posted by Skaterbabe74
Sorry I didn't mean to imply that you were depressed, but one of the causes for depression is lowered serotonin levels which is why St Johns Wort helps.

Ok, so I'm an undergrad who took some grad level neuropharm. St. John's Wart has been shown to be a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, however its effectiveness and side-effects make it look about as good as a TCA several generations ago. The advice of everyone I've talked to: stick to the good stuff... Prozac, zoloft, etc... More effect, less interaction.

So anyways, chronic E use causes your brain to become like swiss cheese. I dunno what to tell you man, sorry

 

[Joe Joe on da Radio]

keep in mind that A LOT of the research that's been done on the effect of E on the brain has been bad research.

i'd be demented right now if that info was true. =X

 

[jayvee]

Originally posted by Joe Joe on da Radio
keep in mind that A LOT of the research that's been done on the effect of E on the brain has been bad research.

Their seems to be a lack of evidenced-based medicine in this conversation. To the guy who thinks he took to much E: take the advice what some people are saying: go see a doctor. Quit whining because all you'll get are people's herbal remedies.

To many people here are throwing around recommendations without backup. If you're going to site what St. John's Wart is useful for, give us a reference (i.e. PDR - Herbs). If you're going to say your brain turns to swiss cheese then tell me where you learned it. Ditto for Joe Joe and his "bad" research comment. Does this honestly make any sense to you? Most published literature is peer-reviewed. I think it's hard to say "A LOT" of research is bad but I'm willing to believe you if you can site some articles and point out their flaws.

 

[Su4n2]

how the hell did you make it pats the adcoms? wtf? did you ever consider that as a future physician you should stay off drugs? u know, when i was applying, i really wanted to go to this school in my area because it's close and cheap. my MCAT is not great and i called the school and asked them about my chances. they said that i missed the MCAT "cutoff" by 1 point so that my appl prob won't be reviewed. i am glad that adcoms think that a 1 point difference can determine what kind of physician you will become, but can't tell when someone's brain is fried due to ecstacy. what a shame..

 

[JMD]

Su4n2,
I don't want to start a big debate here, but I personally know some amazing docs that have experimented with drugs in their past. I don't think it necessarily means you can't be a good physician and help people. Yes, I totally agree with you that someone who's "brain is fried" from drugs should not have other people's well being in their hands, but people do dumb things when they are young (and old), and it is possible to learn from those experiences. Your bitterness about missing the cutoff by one point is pretty evident from your post.

On the same note, I see plenty of Docs boozing it up at bars. Yeah, it's legal, but a drug nonetheless. Should they not be allowed to practice medicine for the inability to "stay off drugs?"

 

[Su4n2]

what i menat was not that u can't do drugs and still be smart and remain a great doc. but a doctor is supposed to be an advocate for health, and in my opinion, should hold themselves to a higher standard.

re my bitterness,i am not really bitter, because i was accepeted at a school that i iwll be reallyhappy at. i was just giving that statement to show the irony that i see in the situation. peace out.

 

[phllystyl]

Lots of people were lots of things before they became doctors.

Good to see yer gonna ace that Condescension course next year though. Way to read in advance!

 

[jekel]

eat healthy
exercise
fatty acids
b-complex
also eating more often (5-6 meals a day)

You will have to make the most of what you have, because i think the effects are not reversable. all of the above things have been shown to improve memory and concentration.

 

[dacaveman]

i did meth [a sympathomimetic just like MDMA] a few times [approx 10 times in 4 years]. i have more frequent memory lapses than most who are my age [im 23]. sometimes i notice myself jumble words when i speak. thats why im very careful whenever i talk. its really not that noticeable.

lately i noticed the memory lapses and the jumbling of words are no longer happening as much as they did 1 year ago.

i dont have much problem at school coz i don't rely on memory that much. i make it a point that i understand deeply what i read. ideas are hard to forget.

i've made my mistake. there's nothing i can do recover those brain cells i killed. the brain can't regenrate the cells lost but it can compensate for it. thats a fact.

it's gonna be ok. you are not alone. its never too late to quit.

peace be with you man

 

[IlianaSedai]

To the original poster-- maybe this isn't quite so scientific as the, ummm, "studies" and stuff posted above , but there <I>is</I> a practical way to compensate for having a crap attention and retention.

Just read the class notes several times, taking no more than an hour to go through the notes for each lecture (otherwise you won't have time to read it enough times). I usually do once before the lecture (the morning of), once after the lecture (same day), and scan it again over the weekend.

Then, the week before the exam, you take out all the lecture notes and read through them again. But by then it'll look familiar enough that you'll be able to read them faster than you did the first time.

 

[Spiralmind]

To the original poster, check your PM.

 

[Dr. Lector]

bump

 

[BaylorGuy]

Well, its been a little over 2 years since your original post...whats the update on the situation???

 

[Dr. Lector]

Well, its been a little over 2 years since your original post...whats the update on the situation???

Well I'v gotten past the first two years of med school, and have actually scored over 250+ on step 1. But now in third year, on rotations, not having enough sleep, I can't seem to retain anything at all. The resident well tell me to do something or write something in the notes and I'll totally forget the next second. Not having enough sleep is making my already bad memory even worse. The only way I got threw the first 2 years was by studying more then most of my classmates, and now in third year I don't seem to have that luxury any more.

 

[markboonya]

i hear that smoking some weed helps. in moderation of course.

 

[phllystyl]

So it all turns out alright eh? In spite of those people who can quote awful, slanted, biased research without actually having ever read any of the papers?

Polysubstance abusers with multiple deficiences in seratonergic pathways? WHAT YOU SAY!?!?! How about meth analogs instead of MDMA in several key studies? OOPSIES!

And now this horrid neuropsychopharm agent is being given to PTSD patients with pretty surprising, beneficial results.


Glad everything is turning out ok lector. I am sure some of what you attributed to MDMA was just adjusting to medical school's pace. You def. demonstrated an ability to adjust and overcome. Third year is another type of learning which you will, surely, adjust to and master as well. I know some people who were concerned similar issues, who are a bit farther ahead on the timeline and doing AOK.

best of luck, and refer to this thread to remind yourself how *****ic people can be on SDN

 

[Finally M3]

So it all turns out alright eh? In spite of those people who can quote awful, slanted, biased research without actually having ever read any of the papers?

Polysubstance abusers with multiple deficiences in seratonergic pathways? WHAT YOU SAY!?!?! How about meth analogs instead of MDMA in several key studies? OOPSIES!

And now this horrid neuropsychopharm agent is being given to PTSD patients with pretty surprising, beneficial results.


Glad everything is turning out ok lector. I am sure some of what you attributed to MDMA was just adjusting to medical school's pace. You def. demonstrated an ability to adjust and overcome. Third year is another type of learning which you will, surely, adjust to and master as well. I know some people who were concerned similar issues, who are a bit farther ahead on the timeline and doing AOK.

best of luck, and refer to this thread to remind yourself how *****ic people can be on SDN

Glad to see you're doing ok as well. We all experience difficulty remembering things when tired. It's human nature.

However, just because the OP did ok through Step 1 isn't a carte blanche to start dropping E. Are there still organizations like 'Dancesafe' in existance to get your stuff tested before you try it? I remember, back in the day, how MDMA laced with various crap was hitting the streets...

 

[phllystyl]

Glad to see you're doing ok as well. We all experience difficulty remembering things when tired. It's human nature.

However, just because the OP did ok through Step 1 isn't a carte blanche to start dropping E. Are there still organizations like 'Dancesafe' in existance to get your stuff tested before you try it? I remember, back in the day, how MDMA laced with various crap was hitting the streets...

Of course it isn't, but we do make poor decisions from time to time, and the amount of nonsensical garbage being spewed at the OP finally overcame my sensibilities . And yes, dancesafe is still fighting the good fight, though i've heard that governmental pressure is ever increasing against them. Not that this convo needs to become a discussion of governmental policy with regards to illicit substances.,..... </can of worms>

 

[Ypo.]

It seems to me that some of the people on this thread are being perhaps a little overly paranoid... How do you really know that you are having a hard time in medical school due to using a drug a handful of times? I mean, its equally possible that you are having a hard time because medical school is really challenging. My sister has been a hard core crystal methamphetamine user for several years now and has been doing other drugs for ten years. I definitely notice serious destruction to her speech and thinking ability (disjointed sentences-can't keep her train of thought-its really sad-you can almost see the holes in her brain), but it took much much more than casual use, which seems to be what most people on this thread have done. My best friend has done ecstasy over 30 times and is in medical school righ tnow, doing fine-in fact she has scholarships that fully pay her tuition. Perhaps she just got lucky-but my personal experience tells me no.

Look, all I'm saying is, don't automatically attribute any difficulty you have in medical school to your past casual drug use. I have seen some really wacked up people return to completely normal through abstaining from drugs, and taking care of themselves.

 

[BaylorGuy]

Lector...congrats on the 250+....Even though I havent matriculated yet, I'm gonna agree with Phllystyl. From all the med students, residents, and doctors i've talked to and worked with the first 2 years of med school is nothing like the clinical rotations, which are nothing like residency. Maybe you are just adjusting to the different style of teaching/mentoring. You'll do well my friend....try to get some more sleep on the weekends if you have the time.

 

[Topaz]

Well I'v gotten past the first two years of med school, and have actually scored over 250+ on step 1. But now in third year, on rotations, not having enough sleep, I can't seem to retain anything at all. The resident well tell me to do something or write something in the notes and I'll totally forget the next second. Not having enough sleep is making my already bad memory even worse. The only way I got threw the first 2 years was by studying more then most of my classmates, and now in third year I don't seem to have that luxury any more.

A Case of a brain in trouble...

Effects of MDMA on brain = 250+ on Step 1

Effects of 3rd year sleep schedule = scrambled eggs for brains

Almost makes me want to do drugs. Or shoot the OP.

 

[Topaz]

Well I'v gotten past the first two years of med school, and have actually scored over 250+ on step 1. But now in third year, on rotations, not having enough sleep, I can't seem to retain anything at all. The resident well tell me to do something or write something in the notes and I'll totally forget the next second. Not having enough sleep is making my already bad memory even worse. The only way I got threw the first 2 years was by studying more then most of my classmates, and now in third year I don't seem to have that luxury any more.

A Case of a brain in trouble...

Effects of MDMA on brain = 250+ on Step 1

Effects of 3rd year sleep schedule = scrambled eggs for brains

Am I missing something here??? Somehow I have lost sympathy for your "woe is me, a reformed druggie can't learn" routine. Thank you for sharing your success with the rest of us mortals.

 

[psychgeek]

It seems to me that some of the people on this thread are being perhaps a little overly paranoid... How do you really know that you are having a hard time in medical school due to using a drug a handful of times? I mean, its equally possible that you are having a hard time because medical school is really challenging.

I have to agree. Unless you used a tremendous amount of MDMA it is unlikely that you have any sort of long-term memory problems. The few half-way decent studies that have been done in humans have only found a durable effect for heavy users, and even this effect may be related more to pot than MDMA. Animal studies tend to do silly things like dose a monkey for a week continuously or give a rat a near-lethal dose and test it the next day.

Now if you want to fry some brain cells, go for crack. I had a pt who was effectively psychotic following a two-year crack binge.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

since the subject of illicit drug use has come up... which schools have drug testing as a part of the acceptance process? i know of MSSM as the only one, anyone tested by their school?

You mean some medical schools actually drug test their students?

 

[BaylorGuy]

You mean some medical schools actually drug test their students?

hahahahhaa....that would be nice...after a major exam/score release, they give everyone cookies and weed.

It would be a good way to mellow out for the weekend though.

 

[McGillGrad]

Your brain is not fried; it is just taxed from information overload from your first two years. Now that you have changed gears, your mind is adapting. The lack of sleep is the worst issue you are facing.

Build up your stamina and get your body used to less sleep and that will get you back on a regular schedule.

After all this medical training, it surprises me that people will assume that some toxin will damage your brain when it was taken in low doses over an extended time period. Your brain is fine. What you need is some rest and to hit the weights in the gym.

 

[dcpark74]

Can?t do anything w/surgery cuz now my hands shake too much when I get nervous. I think my substantia nigra is jacked, experiencing mild form of parkinsons. I?m not really depressed, so antidepressants aren?t needed. I need help w/memory, how about those infommercials, on memory aids?

sorry to hear about your memory problems.

um...i hope you were sure that your E pills were pure and not tainted with MPTP (even though it is associated with meperidine and not MDMA). and i hope you are not experiencing parkinson-like symptoms even though you jokingly say so.

i would seriously go to the doctor and get a PET or something of the sort done.

good luck and i hope you do well your first year.

WHOA! i just noticed this thread is over 2 years old. nevermind what i said.

 

[phllystyl]

I have to agree. Unless you used a tremendous amount of MDMA it is unlikely that you have any sort of long-term memory problems. The few half-way decent studies that have been done in humans have only found a durable effect for heavy users, and even this effect may be related more to pot than MDMA. .

And human studies are almost ALWAYS polysubstance. Find me a human that only abuses MDMA and u win a prize.... Where do you attribute the memory loss? or is it best to just group the whole thing as post-rave related etc...

every raver i knew and partied with in the mid 90s wasnt just eating e.

 

[8744]

...on rotations, not having enough sleep, I can't seem to retain anything at all. The resident well tell me to do something or write something in the notes and I'll totally forget the next second...

Oh, is that all? Dude, I have never done drugs in my life (and only imbibed alcohol for four years before I quit) and I forget things with the best of 'em.

Don't sweat it.

 

[BooMed]

Once people have been up for 24+ hours they have the reflexes and coordination of drunks, so you know, maybe some past e use isn't the worst thing that ever happened...

 

[Ypo.]

And human studies are almost ALWAYS polysubstance. Find me a human that only abuses MDMA and u win a prize.... Where do you attribute the memory loss? or is it best to just group the whole thing as post-rave related etc...

every raver i knew and partied with in the mid 90s wasnt just eating e.

I haven't read any of the studies, but I have known a lot of druggies who went on to challenging careers. It takes a lot more than casual drug use to fry your brain.

It just really irritates me when I see people buying the government's BS. They try to tell us that pot and heroine are in the same class. That has done more harm than good. In Hawaii they waste milllions each year on green harvest (eradicating pot), while donating a fraction of the cost to eradicating crystal meth-which has had a much greater negative effect on society. It is in part because of misinformation like this that these kind of discrepancies in drug enforcement occur and continue.

If anyone wants to blame their nonproficient memory on a couple wild weekends thats their business. However, I don't think its realistic. I also think that its kind of an excuse, or whining, or paranoia, or something... The truth is it doesn't matter why your having trouble-the real question is 'what are you going to do about it?' Whine that you 'can't remember things' because you did E a couple of times? If your brain was really that damaged by drugs you wouldn't have made it in to med school. Some people are just better at mass memorization than others...but med school is not easy for anyone. Lets not jump to conclusions.

 

[LongQT]

One word: Ritalin.

 

[McGillGrad]

I haven't read any of the studies, but I have known a lot of druggies who went on to challenging careers. It takes a lot more than casual drug use to fry your brain.

It just really irritates me when I see people buying the government's BS. They try to tell us that pot and heroine are in the same class. That has done more harm than good. In Hawaii they waste milllions each year on green harvest (eradicating pot), while donating a fraction of the cost to eradicating crystal meth-which has had a much greater negative effect on society. It is in part because of misinformation like this that these kind of discrepancies in drug enforcement occur and continue.

If anyone wants to blame their nonproficient memory on a couple wild weekends thats their business. However, I don't think its realistic. I also think that its kind of an excuse, or whining, or paranoia, or something... The truth is it doesn't matter why your having trouble-the real question is 'what are you going to do about it?' Whine that you 'can't remember things' because you did E a couple of times? If your brain was really that damaged by drugs you wouldn't have made it in to med school. Some people are just better at mass memorization than others...but med school is not easy for anyone. Lets not jump to conclusions.

Well said!