Don't do it for the money

[iatrosB]

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I know that it has been said before by experienced military doctors to not take the HPSP for the money, but I don't think it sinks in. The money sounded good to me till I calculated the how much money I would LOSE by going the HPSP route. I calculated that I would make $90,000 more over the seven years by NOT doing the military (three residency + four service obligation). This includes adjustments for higher residency pay for military residency, loan repayment for not military, and the close to 200,000 worth of support in medical school from the military while in medical school (tuition + stipend). So again, don't do it for the money, you will actually lose money if you go into a specialty that makes more than 140,000. There are many reasons to do HPSP, but money is certainly not one of them. That seems to be the only thing the recruiters focus on and it is actually a poor economic decision.

 

[bustbones26]

Well NOBODY should do HPSP just for the money!! But in my opinion, I say that not due to economic reasons, i.e. I am not going to sit here and calculate out, "well lets see X years of school, Y years of residency, Z years of payback, etc etc.

But the real reason is, its a commitment, plain and simple, doesn't matter how much money you will make or not make, its a commitment, they own you! That is what you really need to consider before signing up.

 

[iatrosB]

I agree totally with what you are saying. The purpose of my statement was to inform the many interested parties out there that the financial picture the recruiters paint for you isn't as rosy as it sounds. That is always their selling point and they sell the economic side pretty hard. I wanted to show that it is not as good as it sounds. You're right, they own you. That and many other reasons is stopping me from taking it.

 

[bustbones26]

Recruiters always paint a pretty picture, not just for us healthcare people, but for anybody trying to get into the military. Everybody be warned right now, NEVER trust your recruiter! Once you sign on the dotted line and you're in, you will NEVER hear from your recruiter again, ever have any problems after you're in, your recruiter who worked night and day, shedded sweat and blood to get you to sign up, all of the sudden is not there for you anymore and doesn't care.

ONce on a family practice rotation, I was at a noon lecture and the army sponsored a psychiatrist to come and give a lecture on addiction psychiatry, the recruiters came and tried to pick up some of the students and residents, man I had to bite my lip very hard, they had no idea that I was HPSP and that half of waht they promised was BS!!

 

[Globus P]

ONce on a family practice rotation, I was at a noon lecture and the army sponsored a psychiatrist to come and give a lecture on addiction psychiatry, the recruiters came and tried to pick up some of the students and residents, man I had to bite my lip very hard, they had no idea that I was HPSP and that half of waht they promised was BS!!

You should have raised your hand and diplomatically called BS on the BS info. Recruiters are SUPPOSED to be honest, for whatever reason, "used car salesman" sponsored command climate or or he's just a slimy fork-tongued liar, the dishonest ones do persist. Sometimes, the recruiters simply don't know all the realities of a program they're trying to sell, that too makes a bad recruiter.

To those of you talking with recruiters, if you suspect he's lying, or his/her stories changes, or he's simply an idiot, leave and go see someone else. It's your life, not his.

 

[MoosePilot]

I will put in a good word for the military.

Sometimes the bennies that they mention which you don't think will be a big deal become a big deal quickly. I went through college uninsured. Once married, my wife lost her parents' health insurance. I commissioned into the Air Force and w/in 6 mos. she needed a heart transplant for a new condition.

There were several years where I was probably the highest paid Lt. in the world if you considered my health benefits.

The military can suck, but there are times when it really pays off, too. Get your info and I'd agree - if something the recruiter says sounds too good to be true, ask for it in writing.

 

[GMO_52]

Whether military medicine is a good deal financially depends on what specialty and where you plan on practicing. New FPs in SoCal, for example, make no more than their military counterparts, while a new interventional cardiologist in the Midwest makes far more. Since most of us don't really know what we're going to do when we start, hoping to make the military price out is liable to leave one bitter and resentful. As everyone has said, don't join for the money.

On the other hand, not being broke in med school allowed us into the housing market earlier (during the recent huge run up). That earned us A LOT of money.

 

[lukeday99]

So why should I do it then? Guys, let me know your honest opinion, because I don't want to get suckered into this. What are the goods, and what are the bads? What should I look out for? I'm kinda scared now that I actually am getting closer to signing on the dotted line.

 

[bustbones26]

I am happy with my army HPSP program, but was just pointing out that you never trust recruiters and that you must always keep in mind that its a commitment.

Why do it. Well, most people will will say, "If you take four years, divide by x, then multiply by z, you find out that you don't amke any money?"

Look, do you want to be a doc to make lots and lots of money, or because in you heart its truly what you want to do. If its to make money, then you're an a$$hole!! simply put.

I don't know any amry doc that is starving. Lets discuss some of the benefits here.

First, if you do want to look at the dollar sign let me point out a few things/ One, you don't have to take out a bazillion dollars in loans to go to med school, in addition, your health insurance, books, supplies are reimburseable.

two, while in residency, you are given a housing allowance which is more than your mortgage payment, after residency you sell your home and make $$$$

three, army residents are paid more than civilians, simply put

Four, once you pay back your time, your done!!! Then you can go for the civilian big bucks.

Now lets get off the subject of money and talk about other reason why to do it.

First, opportunity, residency training at army hospitals are spectacular. If you are lucky enough to get a spot at Walter Reed or Booke, then you've done pretty good!!

Second, pride. I tell you you really do feel great about taking care of soldiers, retirees, and their families. It really is an awesome feeling.

Come to work and get a paycheck. NO wories about hiring overhead, no need to stress if you can make enough money to keep an office running, no toiling over submitting insurance reimbursements, your job is to practice medicine!!!


There are negative too, and I am sure you have heard what they all are, but I guess my thoughts are this, if you are concerned about finances, no worries, you are not going to starve. Unless its your goal to own a million dollar house, have five fancy cars, then its not a bad idea to be military.

 

[MoosePilot]

So why should I do it then? Guys, let me know your honest opinion, because I don't want to get suckered into this. What are the goods, and what are the bads? What should I look out for? I'm kinda scared now that I actually am getting closer to signing on the dotted line.

One of the bad things that can happen (depending on your preferences - I'm starting to wonder if this might not be a fun way to get started if I ever have the choice) is you can graduate and get assigned to do a one year internship and then go straight into being a doctor somewhere fun. Do they have doctors in Balad? I don't know, but I know they had a medical tent in Qatar and one in Jordan when I flew through those places. Qatar had wooden floors for the tents that guys had made through self help programs, but Jordan wasn't that fancy yet.

Meals in those cases would be at chow halls with a couple of American style junk food places sometimes thrown in for morale if you're in some place like Qatar.

I was super gung ho military before I went to war and still am for the most part, but it is smart to decide if you can handle TDYs to substandard living conditions with a certain amount of danger thrown in. I'd characterize the living conditions as a fairly upscale prison with you in the role of prisoner.

I figure Docs have it better, because there are always some flight docs volunteering to fly with me. When I'm really beat down, I don't volunteer for anything, so the fact that they're still enthusiastic enough to volunteer tells me they've still got some energy reserve. Or they need their flight pay, one or the other 😀

 

[Heeed!]

I figure Docs have it better, because there are always some flight docs volunteering to fly with me.

If the AF made me go be a flight doc, even I would be volunteering to fly on that fast mover of yours! 😴 Flying would be the only bright spot. (MP- I flew into Machord for an airshow and saw that fat kid of yours do that quick climb or combat ascent or whatever you call it...I'll have to admit it was impressive). And I feel certain those docs you saw in tents were not AF docs...they were prolly down the road a couple hundred miles at the local 5 star. 👍

 

[MoosePilot]

If the AF made me go be a flight doc, even I would be volunteering to fly on that fast mover of yours! 😴 Flying would be the only bright spot. (MP- I flew into Machord for an airshow and saw that fat kid of yours do that quick climb or combat ascent or whatever you call it...I'll have to admit it was impressive). And I feel certain those docs you saw in tents were not AF docs...they were prolly down the road a couple hundred miles at the local 5 star. 👍

Yeah, for a fat kid, it's got some get up and go. Not quite a pointy nose, though

To keep it on topic and not hijack, I always figured the docs were staying in tent city with the rest of us. Do you really think they're off in the nice hotel down the street?

 

[Heeed!]

To keep it on topic and not hijack, I always figured the docs were staying in tent city with the rest of us. Do you really think they're off in the nice hotel down the street?

I guess I let the secret out: fast movers get the hotels. 👍 I was always in a dorm and the doc was w/ us. So I guess if you're living in tent city, so is the doc.

 

[edmadison]

I know that it has been said before by experienced military doctors to not take the HPSP for the money, but I don't think it sinks in. The money sounded good to me till I calculated the how much money I would LOSE by going the HPSP route. I calculated that I would make $90,000 more over the seven years by NOT doing the military (three residency + four service obligation). This includes adjustments for higher residency pay for military residency, loan repayment for not military, and the close to 200,000 worth of support in medical school from the military while in medical school (tuition + stipend). So again, don't do it for the money, you will actually lose money if you go into a specialty that makes more than 140,000. There are many reasons to do HPSP, but money is certainly not one of them. That seems to be the only thing the recruiters focus on and it is actually a poor economic decision.

I agree with your premise. but you did omit one factor. You must pay off your student loans with after tax money. Thus, you will generally need to earn 200,000 to pay off 100,000 in loans. My wife and I did the calculations and figured that HPSP was to a 500,000 gain once you figured in interest accrual, amortization and after tax payback. Of course this would be somewhat lower if you can lock in a 3% loan.

Never forget the tax aspects of your financial decisions.

Ed